Star was has been ridden to death, then some, and then some more, until only bloody goop was ground across the floor. By Jar Jar Abrams nonetheless, who never managed to tie any story together at the end in his life.
All trying to ride on the former glory of movies barely anyone who watches them even knows anymore. Fan fiction level space opera, written by a teenager who thought he got sci-fi because he put a knights and magic" fantasy story in the "future^Wpast.
The first two and a half movies were fun when I was a kid, but that's about it. They appear silly now.
I really like the originals now, but you have to watch the "despecialized edition", the Lucas versions ruin everything. The practical effects, great banter between the actors, and plot that tells a story with actual character arcs: it's all lacking today.
Let it rest! Come up with something *actually* new, ya fuckin Hollywood cokeheads!
That would require two things Hollywood can't do: take a risk, and hire a writer based on talent. But let's not forget, Hollywood didn't think Star Wars would work either, it was just "spring filler". What we've really lost these days is those "filler" m
plot that tells a story with actual character arcs: it's all lacking today.
One of the biggest issues people here seem to have with TLJ is that it has character arcs. Instead of just being basically the same person but in different situations like the original trilogy, the characters actually changed significantly during the movie.
In the original trilogy most of the major development happened off-screen between movies. Luke was a whiny kid through the whole first movie, then a whiny Jedi in training through
One of the biggest issues people here seem to have with TLJ is that it has character arcs.
Oh? Whose fundamental flaw was tested, and whether they could overcome that flaw determined the outcome of the movie? Because I don't remember that ever happening. It almost happened with Finn, but: denied.
Heck, other than Finn who even has a flaw in the new SW films? Remember a flaw is not a weakness, a flaw is something we look down on a character for, like being a racist, or being selfish to the point it hurts others, or being a coward. Kylo Ren maybe? But I had to search to remember his name, he's so bland.
In the first films, Luke had a very slow arc across three films. Not great, but Lucas is not a great writer. At least there was something. Han Solo had a great arc in the first film, then had no place to go (character-wise), which is why Ford wanted him to die in Empire: Solo's arc was done. Leia at least had a flaw (arrogance), if she didn't have an arc. Vader had a very brief arc, but at least there was something (Lucas never did motivate his villains well).
Whose fundamental flaw was tested, and whether they could overcome that flaw determined the outcome of the movie?
Poe was reckless and obsessed with desperate, high stakes attacks that were costing the rebels too many lives. If his mutiny had succeeded and his plan been put into action they would all have died.
Finn started out just looking to escape, with no connection to the Rebellion. With Rose's help he came to understand why the Rebellion was fighting the Empire and why it mattered. Later he makes the sa
Poe was reckless and obsessed with desperate, high stakes attacks that were costing the rebels too many lives. If his mutiny had succeeded and his plan been put into action they would all have died.
Yes, you've just decribed the absence of a character arc. His failure did not affect the outcome, His did not change as a result. Also, I think most of the audience saw him as in the right, saw it doesn't count as a flaw.
Kylo Ren defeated the Emperor and became leader of the galaxy by defeating Rey's attempts to turn him to her side.
At no point was Kylo's temper relevant to the outcome of the film. And he didn't change. No arc.
Rey realized that she couldn't rely on Luke to save the Rebels.
Rey has no flaws. The few times she hasn't easily succeeded at whatever she's tried, it's been because of forces beyond her control (e.g., Luke not instantly liking her).
Luke himself goes from jaded and thinking that the Jedi and the Force can do no good to using the last of his strength to save his sister and the Rebels
A character doesn't directly have to affect the outcome of the film to have a character arc. That's not what an arc is.
Anyway, Poe has a negative outcome on the movies for the rebels. A lot of it was setting up the next movie, much like Empire. The big reveal in that movie went nowhere until the next one.
A character doesn't directly have to affect the outcome of the film to have a character arc. That's not what an arc is.
Well, words mean what we want to to mean, but I'm using the term in the way that's relevant to film scripts (or drama, in general). Don't confuse character development with an arc.
The very core of story structure is that you have a character with a flaw, and that flaw is tested, and the ending is either happy or unhappy depending on the character's choice. It's called an "arc" because it's expected to be a down-then-up arc for a comedy (in the Aristotelian sense, not necessarily the haha sense), or up-the
A negative outcome? The only reason that the worthless general's plan worked at all is because the First Order's fleet was commanded by short bus graduates who all had CTE. Against an opponent with even a quantum of competence it would have failed miserably.
Kylo Ren maybe? But I had to search to remember his name, he's so bland.
That's sort of the character, though. His big flaw is he wants to be the big, bad guy, but he's really just a poser. He postures like he's Darth Vader, but he has temper tantrums. He even sounds like a wuss when he has his mask on. He's the goth kid, he's the edge lord. He's really the only character so far in the new trilogy that's interesting. I actually liked Laura Dern's character in the Last Jedi and thought she had potential, but they killed her off, so... so much for that.
Heck, other than Finn who even has a flaw in the new SW films?
Poe. Granted, in the first
"Life is a garment we continuously alter, but which never seems to fit."
-- David McCord
Seriously, who cares? (Score:3, Insightful)
Star was has been ridden to death, then some, and then some more, until only bloody goop was ground across the floor. By Jar Jar Abrams nonetheless, who never managed to tie any story together at the end in his life.
All trying to ride on the former glory of movies barely anyone who watches them even knows anymore. Fan fiction level space opera, written by a teenager who thought he got sci-fi because he put a knights and magic" fantasy story in the "future^Wpast.
The first two and a half movies were fun when
Re: (Score:5, Interesting)
The first two and a half movies were fun when I was a kid, but that's about it. They appear silly now.
I really like the originals now, but you have to watch the "despecialized edition", the Lucas versions ruin everything. The practical effects, great banter between the actors, and plot that tells a story with actual character arcs: it's all lacking today.
Let it rest! Come up with something *actually* new, ya fuckin Hollywood cokeheads!
That would require two things Hollywood can't do: take a risk, and hire a writer based on talent. But let's not forget, Hollywood didn't think Star Wars would work either, it was just "spring filler". What we've really lost these days is those "filler" m
Re: (Score:5, Insightful)
plot that tells a story with actual character arcs: it's all lacking today.
One of the biggest issues people here seem to have with TLJ is that it has character arcs. Instead of just being basically the same person but in different situations like the original trilogy, the characters actually changed significantly during the movie.
In the original trilogy most of the major development happened off-screen between movies. Luke was a whiny kid through the whole first movie, then a whiny Jedi in training through
Re:Seriously, who cares? (Score:3)
One of the biggest issues people here seem to have with TLJ is that it has character arcs.
Oh? Whose fundamental flaw was tested, and whether they could overcome that flaw determined the outcome of the movie? Because I don't remember that ever happening. It almost happened with Finn, but: denied.
Heck, other than Finn who even has a flaw in the new SW films? Remember a flaw is not a weakness, a flaw is something we look down on a character for, like being a racist, or being selfish to the point it hurts others, or being a coward. Kylo Ren maybe? But I had to search to remember his name, he's so bland.
In the first films, Luke had a very slow arc across three films. Not great, but Lucas is not a great writer. At least there was something. Han Solo had a great arc in the first film, then had no place to go (character-wise), which is why Ford wanted him to die in Empire: Solo's arc was done. Leia at least had a flaw (arrogance), if she didn't have an arc. Vader had a very brief arc, but at least there was something (Lucas never did motivate his villains well).
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
Whose fundamental flaw was tested, and whether they could overcome that flaw determined the outcome of the movie?
Poe was reckless and obsessed with desperate, high stakes attacks that were costing the rebels too many lives. If his mutiny had succeeded and his plan been put into action they would all have died.
Finn started out just looking to escape, with no connection to the Rebellion. With Rose's help he came to understand why the Rebellion was fighting the Empire and why it mattered. Later he makes the sa
Re: (Score:2)
Poe was reckless and obsessed with desperate, high stakes attacks that were costing the rebels too many lives. If his mutiny had succeeded and his plan been put into action they would all have died.
Yes, you've just decribed the absence of a character arc. His failure did not affect the outcome, His did not change as a result. Also, I think most of the audience saw him as in the right, saw it doesn't count as a flaw.
Kylo Ren defeated the Emperor and became leader of the galaxy by defeating Rey's attempts to turn him to her side.
At no point was Kylo's temper relevant to the outcome of the film. And he didn't change. No arc.
Rey realized that she couldn't rely on Luke to save the Rebels.
Rey has no flaws. The few times she hasn't easily succeeded at whatever she's tried, it's been because of forces beyond her control (e.g., Luke not instantly liking her).
Luke himself goes from jaded and thinking that the Jedi and the Force can do no good to using the last of his strength to save his sister and the Rebels
Luke. Don't even g
Re: (Score:2)
A character doesn't directly have to affect the outcome of the film to have a character arc. That's not what an arc is.
Anyway, Poe has a negative outcome on the movies for the rebels. A lot of it was setting up the next movie, much like Empire. The big reveal in that movie went nowhere until the next one.
Re: (Score:3)
A character doesn't directly have to affect the outcome of the film to have a character arc. That's not what an arc is.
Well, words mean what we want to to mean, but I'm using the term in the way that's relevant to film scripts (or drama, in general). Don't confuse character development with an arc.
The very core of story structure is that you have a character with a flaw, and that flaw is tested, and the ending is either happy or unhappy depending on the character's choice. It's called an "arc" because it's expected to be a down-then-up arc for a comedy (in the Aristotelian sense, not necessarily the haha sense), or up-the
Re: (Score:2)
Well the only one that's borderline is Poe then, but the movie isn't really about him.
Re: (Score:2)
A negative outcome? The only reason that the worthless general's plan worked at all is because the First Order's fleet was commanded by short bus graduates who all had CTE. Against an opponent with even a quantum of competence it would have failed miserably.
Re: (Score:2)
Have you seen the original trilogy? The Empire wasn't exactly competent either.
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So that's Rose reason to exist?
I was actually already wondering why the fuck this character exists altogether.
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Yes, she was pivotal to the plot.
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Wait, there is a plot?
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Kylo Ren maybe? But I had to search to remember his name, he's so bland.
That's sort of the character, though. His big flaw is he wants to be the big, bad guy, but he's really just a poser. He postures like he's Darth Vader, but he has temper tantrums. He even sounds like a wuss when he has his mask on. He's the goth kid, he's the edge lord. He's really the only character so far in the new trilogy that's interesting. I actually liked Laura Dern's character in the Last Jedi and thought she had potential, but they killed her off, so... so much for that.
Heck, other than Finn who even has a flaw in the new SW films?
Poe. Granted, in the first