Will you update your PC to Windows 11?
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Microsoft had other ideas... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Microsoft had other ideas... (Score:5, Interesting)
Lol. My case is not as extreme, but I understand the pain. My quad-core i7/NVidia GPU 17" laptop w/ 16GB RAM and 256GB SSD doesn't qualify because the processor isn't on the list. Though 8 years old, it's faster than the bulk of new machines on the market today including the one I just bought my wife which does qualify for Win 11. You just can't be doing things like this today when computers are routinely achieving double digit useful lifetimes.
I think when they say the Win 11 specs include the bulk of machines, they mean the bulk still being sold. The majority of machines actually in use running Win 10 today will not run Win 11.
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i7-7700K here. Barely 4 years old. Off the love list. :-/
Re:Microsoft had other ideas... (Score:5, Funny)
That's not love, that's Stockholm syndrome.
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Re: Microsoft had other ideas... (Score:3)
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Weird, the Linux kernel runs pretty darn well on everything I've thrown at it. I'm waiting for something that isn't supported well so I can poke around and make a module.
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Re: Microsoft had other ideas... (Score:2)
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NVidia havn't properly supported linux since you're only going to get some amount of compatibility through binary-only driver. Therei s no obligation for the kernel team to try and work with something close sourced, they're not going to try and reverse engineer compatibility.
I gave up with MS when I had to hunt around for drivers on floppies to get stuff to work. They'll only change when they loose market share and actually feel the need to work on bugs that are decades old. Maybe some have been fixed now,
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NVidia havn't properly supported linux since you're only going to get some amount of compatibility through binary-only driver....
I haven't had any trouble with NVidia's drivers. My 1600GT has worked just fine with both Ubuntu 18.04 and 20.04. It's been over 10 years since I wasn't using NVidia, but the reason I switched to them was because the AMD cards weren't working too well for me back then. I guess YMMV...
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I haven't had any trouble with NVidia's drivers. My 1600GT has worked just fine with both Ubuntu 18.04 and 20.04. It's been over 10 years since I wasn't using NVidia, but the reason I switched to them was because the AMD cards weren't working too well for me back then. I guess YMMV...
Using lynx to find the latest nvidia driver is akin to hunting around for the *right* network driver floppy disk in order to get IP working for Windows. Sorry, that's just poor customer service from NVidia.
What would be the reason for NVidia not helping working on nouveau? In the long term it would benefit them.
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Because your understanding of operating systems hasn't been updated in a decade?
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If your PC is four years old then wtf is the problem? Either you're ready for a hardware upgrade or you're fine with what you have. Is there some 'we're nuking every version of windows besides 11 the day 11 comes out' notice I didn't get? If not, what's the deal?
Re:Microsoft had other ideas... (Score:4, Interesting)
Microsoft had other ideas. Mostly bad ideas, but that's par.
My situation is similar. I would consider upgrading if I could, but Microsoft decided not to give me the choice. Though none of my machines is especially powerful, all of them are more than sufficient for MY purposes, as if that could be less relevant to Microsoft. Infinite wisdom in a flying pig's eye.
One aspect that hasn't been mentioned yet in the FP thread is the danger that Windows 11 is another flop. The track record is quite mixed, and this one could come another cropper. Also significant is the lack of any compelling new features. At least I haven't read of any new OS-level thing i want, though I'm sure the new OS has a number of MS-side conveniences and intrusions and a whole stack of fresh bugs.
The crazy part to me is that this isn't really an economic decision. Microsoft already controls the platform and I am not aware of any new threat on the horizon. The big threat to Windows is actually getting old already. More and more people are choosing to more or less completely ignore Windows by using smartphones. However that might create the pressure for Microsoft to change their mind in favor of the i7 machines... Don't care enough to cross my fingers for it, however.
So what happens if a machine dies? Only a few months ago I was forced to decide on such a case. Decided to replace it and barely went with a Windows 10 box, but my first built for Windows 10 box. And my wife made me do it. I would have rather tried a Chromebook.
Coincidentally I was trying to convert an old XP machine to Linux recently. No luck so far. Linux has apparently been sucked too far down the Wintel road to big hardware perdition. Which goes back to my wish Linux had at least one better financial model for such cases. CSB anyone?
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Part of the problem appears to be lack of horsepower, but I also suspect there are some sneaky hardware optimizations for Windows. Also suspect that my USB multiboot has become corrupted in some way, but I'm leery of rebuilding it the way I did it the last time...
My last workaround attempt involved creating a fresh Puppy Linux USB booter, but I've been having trouble doing that from Ubuntu. It only wants to create an Ubuntu booter. Not sure if that's because I've been working from a virtual machine Ubuntu?
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Yep, CPU i7-6600K not supported. 32 gigs of ram, 2 tb SSD plus 8tb spinning, a 2070 and 2080 video setup,
Ah well, it works fine for me. Maybe in 3 or 4 years during the next hardware upgrade.
[John]
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This is what I keep telling people. Windows 11 isn't the end of the world. Windows 10 will be supported till 2025. For a i7-6600k, that is almost a 10 year run. That is a good run for a computer hardware.
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I think when they say the Win 11 specs include the bulk of machines, they mean the bulk still being sold. The majority of machines actually in use running Win 10 today will not run Win 11.
Gee - I wonder if that might be a significant part of Microsoft's reason for launching 11. Because a corporate sector that relies on unchecked, limitless growth simply can't allow situations where "computers are routinely achieving double digit useful lifetimes".
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My computer doesn't have the required TPM chip and might not fulfill some other requirements too.
I wouldn't be surprised if an UEFI/SecureBoot is required in the final instance.
Re:Microsoft had other ideas... (Score:5, Insightful)
It actually amazes me how willingly people are to take TPM these days. Back when it was called Palladium, everyone hated it (for good reason).
Microsoft has different "security" ideas thanyou. (Score:4, Insightful)
In Microsoft's mind, security means:
In your mind, security would mean:
That's why the "security" question will never be perfectly solved.
The word means something very different to you than it does to the companies licensing stuf to you. And those definitions are incompatible with each other.
Re: Microsoft had other ideas... (Score:2)
What are the requirements for getting a kernel signed? Is it easy and free if you're compiling your own kernels?
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Sure, if you've got a valid chain of trust.
Otherwise, what's the difference between you and a hacking group in Iran?
Re: Microsoft had other ideas... (Score:2)
And how do you establish that?
Itâ(TM)s my computer, I know when Iâ(TM)m installing a new kernelâ¦.
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Ah! So no one's computer has ever had a kernel level hack, because every user is Teh Smartest!
Newsflash: Most computer users don't even know what a kernel is.
TPM 2 (Score:3)
The TPM 2 requirement is the real killer. The specification is relatively new, and not many consumer machines have come with a TPM chip standard. Even fTPM has only been out a few years.
And, to this day, the TPM "standard" is a bit of a mess. I bought an Asus TPM2 chip for my Asus motherboard, and it won't fit. Apparently there are multiple revisions of the same chip, with the same part number, and some work on some motherboards and some don't. Kinda defeats the purpose of a standard.
Re: TPM 2 (Score:2)
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I do wonder whether TPM can be virtualised, i.e. run a minimal hypervisor on an old PC and then install Windows in a VM.
Presumably not or it could be trivially circumvented.
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Yes it can. I was wondering if I would be able to run Windows 11 in VMware. In VMware workstation 16 I had it turn on secure boot, efi bios, and installed the TPM module hardware add on. To do that I had to encrypt the VM. After the last hoop it booted just fine.
Then I wondered if it could run with out the tpm module installed. It can but I couldn't log in. I then deleted it.
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Yep. 8 core Haswell EE, not new enough. Plus I doubt I have TPM active, I might be able to find a TPM 1.2 in the bios, but why would I enable malware?
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I'll bet you disabled HTTPS on your browser, too!
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Well, they're not fighting among themselves (mostly).
When a new distribution is launched, it is mostly because all the others don't meet a particular, specific, need.
There are already several "mom"/"pop" distributions out there of considerable quality, but they don't come preinstalled on computers. THAT is the real issue.
It's kind of a chicken and egg problem: the user has been brainwashed to only want Windows and the manufacturers of computers and software actually want to make a profit (who would have tho
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I have the same machine, bigger hardware specs than that, and while it can run a crap ton of VMs and a huge workload, it's still a dinosaur. The BIOS is straight out of 1995. I'm surprised there aren't MFM/RLL hard drive options in there.
Even still, if your big, old, thousand-pound dinosaur can't run Windows 11, you can put a TPM 2 card in and make it work.
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Why would you think a 10 year old CPU would work with a new OS?
Windows 10 was released 6 years ago. Assume a similar cycle for Windows 11, and you're complaining that a 16 year old CPU won't run the latest graphical desktop from Microsoft.
"Waaah".
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Windows 10 worked (and still works) on many PC's from 2008 without issues. You would think that Windows 11 would work fine on 7 year old PC's at launch time as well, but apparently not.
Perhaps a desktop Linux distribution help to fill the gap, but odds are that most folks will just get a new Chromebook instead.
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With the exception of the RAM, which in this case is several generations old and is quite slow, it wouldn't be too surprising to run a laptop that would outperform that machine on most tasks. This is why we least workstations and never buy them. The cost of operating them past a few years compared to replacing them is too high.
If you're happy running that antique (I have a cluster of 256 cores, 2TB RAM, 100TB storage, and 80GB
A bizarre... (Score:2)
... way to downgrade a ver fast ad-free Linux desktop
Re:A bizarre...[way to drive Linux adoption] (Score:2)
What do ads have to do with it? You don't browse?
However, mostly commenting that this route seems blocked for many older machines. Per my earlier comment, I have yet to find a Linux distro that will work easily with a little old XP box. (However my current blockage point is actually in the bootable USB creator on an Ubuntu virtual box. But the target machine isn't worth a lot of hacking time and effort, even for instructional purposes.)
Re: A bizarre...[way to drive Linux adoption] (Score:2)
few Linux desktop environments hit you with subtle ads outside of the web browser. Microsoft may have cornered the market on this technology for a captive audience.
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Mostly trying to reconcile your comment with my experience with Apple's OS... But on the Linux side I think the main problem is the lack of any viable economic model which leads to too much of a non-buyer-beware user experience.
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But on the Linux side I think the main problem is the lack of any viable economic model which leads to too much of a non-buyer-beware user experience.
Why? Linux enjoys developers from all around the world and is propped up financially by hundreds of companies (and governments) with a financial interest in the platform surviving. Google, IBM, Oracle, Amazon, and pretty much every big tech company not named Microsoft depends on Linux.
Linux has many mature DEs and more and more proprietary software is released on it. There are also plenty of distros that are easy to install and require no technical know-how. As long as you don’t need Adobe or some hyp
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As usual when I try to make a joke, I have only managed to muddle my underlying point. Happily retired, but if I still had a day job I sure shouldn't give it up to write comedy.
Let me try to focus it in terms of what I think is the biggest threat that prevents most people from "buying into" Linux for their own use. Yes, there are lots of distros and many fine programs that run on various distros, but there is no sustaining economic model to keep things going. Therefore things can go wrong and you're going t
Windows 11 (Score:2)
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From the consumer point of view, there's no point to Windows 11. But the consumer is the product, not the end goal.
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Re: Windows 11 (Score:2)
where will you get security updates?
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Re: Windows 11 (Score:2)
??? You wait for exploits to happen first. no proactive behavior on your part?
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I'm getting Vista vibes over Win11.
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I might be in the minority here but I liked windows 11. I was running it in a 2 core VM with 8 GB of memory but found it to be very responsive. I liked the look, I found it to be stylish while still looking professional. I even liked the icons in the middle of the task bar. But for those of you do that all over body shake when thinking about that, there is a switch where you can send them to the left, just like always.
Linux Desktop (Score:3, Insightful)
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"UP"date? (Score:2)
Quite frankly, at the very least since Win7 any version of Windows hasn't exactly been an upgrade in any way. It usually got slower, more convoluted, less user friendly, less intuitive and less useable.
Why exactly would I want to "upgrade" to a system where every "upgrade" in the past decade has essentially been a downgrade?
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Why exactly would I want to "upgrade" to a system where every "upgrade" in the past decade has essentially been a downgrade?
You might really want to upgrade this time if you don't already have a Microsoft account. Win 11 will force you to have one, so you won't have that "should I or shouldn't I" question nagging at you. That alone would sell it to me if I were a Windows user!
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If anything, this will sell me to Linux.
I'm one of those people whose response to "My way or..." is to interrupt with "or".
Let's face it .... (Score:2)
Unless you're someone exclusively using Linux or BSD, you'll eventually upgrade at least one of the computers you use to Windows 11.
I'm not happy about the system requirements I've been reading they plan to enforce for it, but I also keep my hardware refreshed often enough so anything I'd want to run Windows on should be compatible with 11. With MS predictably pushing the upgrade out just like they do all the Win 10 update patches, I think it's going to become difficult NOT to upgrade on a machine capable
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I have a few PCs for various purposes, two of them run Windows 10 alongside Linux and the others are Linux only. The two dual-boot machines started off with Windows 7 (+ Linux) and neither comes even remotely close to fulfilling the Windows 11 hardware requirements. No idea what I'll do when one of them dies, I had two major reasons why I had to use Windows and neither applies any more.
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Yeah, it sounds like Windows 10 will be EOL on October 2025. I'd imagine that date will slip, as Windows 11 will inevitably have some major bugs that will not be fully fixed until the 2nd release of it.
At that point, we'll have to upgrade something to Windows 11 for that one stubborn application or game that most of us use that only works correctly with Windows.
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Nice bland assertion. Why, exactly?
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Unless you're someone exclusively using Linux or BSD, you'll eventually upgrade at least one of the computers you use to Windows 11.
I keep trying to upgrade, but the darn Windows installer won’t run correctly on my Mac!
My option would have been... (Score:2)
Living In The Past (Score:2)
Hadn't thought to check if my Ryzen 7 / B550 game machine would work with Win11. For now it plays Steam games ok so I'm good to go.
On Mac side and currently using 12 year old MacPro that has been skipped by last 4 or 5 OS updates. Can't complain; was $300 8 years ago and the twin Xeon 5500s are still chugging along. Figure once it gets too creaky for MacOS I'll toss NetBSD on it.
Probably (Score:2)
no to downgrade (Score:2, Insightful)
Already am.. (Score:2)
Company laptop (Score:2)
My build qualifies (Score:2)
If I want to turn on TPM, but I don't really see the advantages, other than Win 10 support going away eventually. There aren't any new interesting features, just a bunch of usual MS useless frills. It's just an attempt to own the user more thoroughly, probably leading to a paid subscription-based OS.
I use Linux (Score:2)
"Updating" to Windows 11 will be a downgrade. I'd much rather stay using my stable gentoo.
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Been running it for 4 years. Never had a problem.
I probably will if I can sidestep the TPM bit. (Score:2)
I'm still running an AMD 1090T (6 cores, permanently clocked up to 3.6) from 2010. I used to be able to run it as high as 3.9 GHz all cores, but with the years passing, the ceiling has come down. When 3.8 was no longer stable, I dropped to a constant 3.6 all cores, and that has been fine for the last four or five years (it's designed for 3.2 with bursts to 3.6). The 750Ti GPU isn't so hot, it's the bare minimum that can do 4k at 60 Hz, although I'm using it to drive four monitors in the 1080p class. However
I wonder (Score:2)
Microsoft's removal of choice (Score:2)
I'll upgrade only because I work in IT and having knowledge of the system will be beneficial to resolving issues with it.
I get the reasons for Microsoft doing an 11 when they said they wouldn't:
1. Need a leaner system to run on ARM to compete with Apple
2. Forcing MS accounts on users because they desperately need to make money this way
3. Removing support for older CPUs because of spectre, meltdown bug workarounds slowing performance. Plus 32-bit support has to die.
4. SecureBoot and TPM to compete better wit
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Windows (Score:2)
Re: Windows (Score:2)
Ain't going to happen. You've had 25+ years to switch amd haven't. I refused Win95 and hung onto DOS before finally switching to Linux. That was easier back then, now days I can't imagine someone who put up with Windows this long ever finding thar last straw that breaks the camels back
I already have updated (Score:2)
Cowboy Neal option: hardware too old (Score:2)
Actually I'd like to install something better than Windows 10. O.K. that's actually Linux plus wine, but it would be nice if Microsoft cleared up the mess they've already made. BUT THEY WON'T LET ME! My 3-year old laptop is already obsolete, according to MS.
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TPM? No (Score:2)
There's no reason to allow a TPM on my system. No way.
Not if they continue the TPM 2.0 requirement. (Score:3)
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Linux has pretty good DirectX support via WINE and it's derivatives like Steam's Proton. I have several games that require DirectX 11 and they have been running great on linux.
It's not perfect for every game but might be good enough for your needs.
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RSTS/E or RSX-11?
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Real coders would have disassembled it and rewritten the source. ;)
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They make robust doorstops.
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No one needs colour or more than a 4 inch screen.
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Of course not-- you obviously haven't hit puberty yet.
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Why not run Windows in a VM on a Linux box?
Added bonus that your host OS doesn't have to connect to your work network.
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