Texas Lawmaker Wants To Let the Blind Hunt 647
IHC Navistar writes with a story from Reuters Oddly Enough. A Texas lawmaker has introduced a measure that would allow blind people to hunt any game that sighted people can currently pursue. The article notes that the bill may have clear sailing in the hunting-besotted state of Texas. An education outreach person from the Texas Parks and Wildlife Department explained it this way: "A blind person can shoot a rifle by mounting an offset pistol scope on the side of the rifle instead of on top. This allows their companion behind them to peer over their shoulder and help them sight it, but the blind person can pull the trigger."
Chuck Norris (Score:5, Funny)
It's not that big of a surprise. With Chuck Norris [youtube.com] prowling the area, they figure that everyone has a right to take their chances.
Look on the bright side. They'll never see it coming! (The roundhouse kick to the face, that is...)
Re:Chuck Norris (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Chuck Norris (Score:5, Funny)
Give em all rocket launchers and let God sort em out...
Not much of a diff. (Score:2)
Re:Chuck Norris (Score:5, Interesting)
i can imagine... (Score:5, Funny)
bravo, guys.
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Re:i can imagine... (Score:5, Informative)
15 other states allow the blind to use lasers to help them hunt.
How is this an "Only in Texas" thing?
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In Soviet Texas (Score:5, Funny)
Re:i can imagine... (Score:5, Funny)
Why?, is it so they can blind the sighted hunters as well?!?
oh great... (Score:5, Funny)
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Re:i can imagine... (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:i can imagine... (Score:5, Insightful)
I know there are blind people who have gone so far as to pass a marksmanship test but that still doesnt give me much of a sense of security (with enough practice, anyone can hit a stationary target with thier eyes closed). I would like to see more of a real world shooting test...two targets, one friendly one enemy, moving back and forth with random motion. It doesnt have to be difficult or high speed, just moving and random with both good and bad targets. Firearms should only be allowed to those who can distinguish between foes and friends and can hit something that has the ability to move. I'm sorry but blind people just cant do this reliably enough that they should be trusted with using deadly force. There are plenty of activities that they can participate in that dont involve deadly weapons and really, how much fun is hunting going to be if someone else is essentially aiming for you and telling you when to pull the trigger. You might as well let them pull the trigger and just come along for the ride.
Re:i can imagine... (Score:5, Funny)
Shh! Not so loud! Some Texas lawyer might get another bright idea.
Re:i can imagine... (Score:4, Insightful)
If the blind aren't allowed to drive, why is there Braille on drive-through ATM's?
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before anyone makes a whooshing noise, I just think the comic is funny and appropriate.
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Imagination (Score:3, Informative)
I suspect that you don't have much experience with firearms. While someone could, potentially, hit a target while blindfolded, it's much more difficult than it looks. Any theoretical totally blind person who manages to pass a marksmanship test is
Re:Imagination (Score:4, Funny)
Yeah! But did you ever notice that they never tell us when open season on Lawyers and Politicians starts?
Re:i can imagine... (Score:5, Insightful)
Nothing for you to see here.., (Score:5, Funny)
(insert Cheney joke here) (Score:4, Funny)
Dear on-duy editor:
Um, yes?
Fun with Dick (Score:5, Funny)
Shit. I can't think of any funny Dick Cheney jokes.
dick cheney is his own joke. (Score:2, Insightful)
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Mitchell: Or a Vice-Presidential duck hunt.
i can think of one (Score:2)
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How many... (Score:2, Funny)
(sorry, it's the best joke I could think of)
mandelbr0t
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Next step (Score:3, Funny)
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I have no problem if the hunted animals are actually used for food and what not. However, I can't help but cringe and chuckle when I'm flipping channels and stop on the hunting channel.
The scene: Two guys in full camouflage, face paint, big big rifles with big big scopes and laser thingies attached, binoculars, two way radios, etc etc.
Hunter1: "Look at that, what a beautiful animal."
Hunter2: "Such a noble creature, look at the antlers, a true work of art"
Hunter1: "I feel one with nature"
BANG
Great idea (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Great idea (Score:5, Funny)
Trickery (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Trickery (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Trickery (Score:5, Funny)
Sighted person thinking fast: "They all do, didn't anyone tell you?"
Sounds like a penny arcade cominc.
Re:Trickery (Score:5, Funny)
army (Score:2)
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It's Funny - Laugh (Score:3, Insightful)
But that's not the funniest. A week before that I saw this lady out on the sidewalk waving this big white stick all over the place. Talk about from the "don't hit me dept.", she was wacking all kinds of stuff with that stick. Hide the kids! Oh man, I still laugh until I get tears in my eyes over this one.
Last year my brother took a friend of ours with ALS on the last deer hunt of his life. My brother did everything for this guy but pull the trigger. Took a lot of time to rig things up to make that possible. And someone who is unfortunate enough to be blind should be able to go hunting with some assistance. The only reason anyone would find this funny is if they are willing to completely ignore what the hunting entails and just laugh at another's misfortune. Maybe I'm wrong to be bothered by this - but I think it is sad that I'm seeing it in so many places being presented as a humorous story.
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And then the man picked up the dog and swung him around by his back legs. A
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The dog's lead goes slack.
On a serious note, I agree; this shouldn't be an object of mockery. Even if I can't understand the appeal of blind shooting.
Re:It's Funny - Laugh (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:It's Funny - Laugh (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:It's Funny - Laugh (Score:5, Insightful)
We don't allow blind people to drive cars, either, but no one thinks this is prejudiced or an erosion of human rights.
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Seeing eye dogs are bred and trained to be friendly; they tend not to bite people. You're probably right that people get bitten by seeing eye dogs more often than blind hunters hurting someone, but this is only by virtue of blind hunters being a rare phenomenon.
Where is it exactly that everyone must hunt to be a part of society?
Finally, certainly more people are hurt by cars than guns, but my point was
Re:It's Funny - Laugh (Score:5, Insightful)
I completely disagree. Unless you can see the target, the range, and downrange yourself, you cannot be sure of your target. The way I was taught, that means you don't take the shot. Having someone else tell you "range is clear, fire away" is NOT a substitute.
Choosing to pull that trigger means you are personally responsible for whatever happens after. If your assistant screws up and misses some kid screwing around in the woods downrange and you plug the kid, you're still going to have to deal with the guilt of that the rest of your life.
Yes, I grew up around firearms and hunting. Still like to shoot, not much of a hunter anymore but 100% support those who choose to hunt. When I was a kid, a friend of our family ( a hunter himself) was mistaken for a deer and died one season in the woods. The person who shot him was an experienced hunter, and a perfectly nice person, who made a one second lapse in judgment about his target and had to live the rest of his life knowing he killed my friend's father. If you're blind, are you really going to let someone else judge your target for you? If so, you better be prepared for the consequences.
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This law is stupid. Mindless political correctness at its best.
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Re:It's Funny - Laugh (Score:5, Insightful)
I know for a fact that my friend who is wheelchair bound would laugh his ass off if he heard, for example, that the Olympics would allow people like him to compete by, say, strapping a wheelchair to a legged individual. For him and for me, part of the way we deal with the challenges he faces is by the ability to see the humor that presents itself.
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Frankly the Texas law seems like a reasonable compromise between equal op
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Somehow, this entire Iraq debacle makes a lot more sense right now.
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if you are a vegan i guess you have some right to get upset about the death of the animal, but otherwise, you don't even make sense. the modern harvest of wild game is much more civilized than the methods that provide most of what the majority in this country
Re:It's Funny - Laugh (Score:4, Insightful)
Hunting is not a small part of wildlife management on 2 fronts. The first is population control. If hunting did not have an impact on population, there would be no need for limits. The second is money. Outdoor sports generate millions of dollars for wildlife management.
As far as it being pleasurable. As a favorite author of mine once pointed out - some surgeons like the cutting and the blood. I don't care as long as they are good at what they do. Hunting provides a strong connection with nature. The hunters I know are much more concerned about the environment than the people who never leave the confines of civilization. My family will not starve if I don't go out and shoot game, at the same time, I've always eaten whatever I've killed. So it may not be necessary, but that doesn't mean it isn't beneficial activity on many levels. And this does not instill in me any desire to harm humans.
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Re:It's Funny - Laugh (Score:5, Insightful)
Nobody dies from walking around the store w/ a guide dog, or using a cane. When you pick up a firearm you're making life and death decisions for other people, and you have an ethical responsibility to personally know what that gun is pointed at.
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And the misfortune of the wild animal, slaughtered for fun? Is that humorous to you instead?
The point of hunting is not "slaughtering for fun", it's "slaughtering for food", as nature intended and as we're designed. Not that it isn't also fun, but the point of hunting is to commune with nature and experience a tiny part of our heritage when surviving meant catching our food. That's why hunting is the most noble sport -- it's what we're designed to do at the most basic level.
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Re:It's Funny - Laugh (Score:5, Insightful)
Also, in many areas, certain animals are overpopulated, mostly because their natural predators were hunted out long ago. For example, while whitetail deer were once very low in population about 75 years ago, conservation efforts have brought their numbers way up. In Wisconsin there are estimated to be 1.4-1.5 million deer. While wolves have been reintroduced to Wisconsin in recent years, they are still considered threatened, and their numbers aren't quite high enough to manage the deer herd on their own. We have also had problems with CWD (Chronic Wasting Disease - similar to Mad Cow disease) appearing in the local deer population, so the hunt allows the DNR to see where it is, where it is spreading too, and if necessary, order additional hunts to cull the herd in areas where it is rampant to prevent further spread.
Without the hunt, the deer population could eventually get large enough where they are starving themselves or damaging crops or causing more auto accidents.
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Why all the guns, then? If it all about experiencing a timy part of our heritage, why not attacking deer with a knife, or a home made bow and arrows?
All three are hunting tools, just different kinds. We're humans -- we design and use tools. The exact tool doesn't matter.
And no, we are not designed at the most basic level to kill large mammals. For the most basic level, go and read a book about apes feeding habits.
We're not apes. We're not even chimpanzees. We are humans, who happen to share a comm
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Legally Blind (Score:4, Insightful)
Anyway, he's legally blind, just invested a very nice new car's worth of money into a Guide Dog, and has better groupings than most of the first-time shooters I've yet met.
This might be a problem for the totally blind, but there are a lot of folks considered blind by the state who are perfectly capable at IDing a target, and moving lead down-range in a manner at least as safe as a sighted person. Probably more-so when you consider the extra carefulness that the average legally blind person puts into doubting their visual input.
Of course, there could be problems, but one thing I've found is most people aren't total dumb-asses. If you're unable to hunt safely, you probably won't actually want to hunt.
(This isn't to discount the hijinks that ensue when you show up to an open range with a nice rifle, nice optics, and a guide dog in tow. That's a `priceless` moment that I hope to see again often in my life)
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Capitcha: Lawsuit. Thats what I imagine would be yet another outco
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First question after the shot? (Score:4, Funny)
Re:First question after the shot? (Score:5, Funny)
"Bob, did I hit anything? Bob? Bob?"
Objection, your honor! (Score:5, Funny)
Attention MODS (Score:2, Redundant)
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Re:Objection, your honor! (Score:4, Funny)
Perhaps since you live in such an "island", you simply haven't gotten out much, and therefore haven't realized that most of the state is not in fact like that. However, I know people from all over the state, and very few of them are "enamored of hunting, guns, pick-up trucks, country music, Republicans, etc." Many of them are Republican (as if that is some sort of deadly insult); most of them drive small economy cars (gas is expensive, and trucks use a lot of gas); most of them don't own a gun, have never owned a gun, and are not planning on purchasing a gun; a significant number of them (although less than half I would estimate) do prefer country music (is that so bad either?); most of them have never been hunting in their life, and wouldn't want to go even if someone invited them. So yes, many of them do fit one or maybe two aspects of your misguided stereotype, but nearly noone fits the entire profile. Perhaps it's time you got off your "Keep Austin weird, and to hell with everyone else" high horse. I always thought that the Democratic party was supposed to be populist, all for the common man, etc. Unless I'm completely wrong about that, maybe you'd better check your political stance and make sure you aren't rooting for the wrong team.
Not enough hunting in the Hill Country of Texas. (Score:2, Interesting)
Hmm.... I think I see what's going on here... (Score:2)
"No... don't you worry Bud, I'm right behind you
I may be blind... (Score:2, Informative)
Lots of FUD here (Score:3, Insightful)
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I read it as "(hunting is) more about shooting family and friends than just animal".
No wonder.
Old Gallagher line (Score:2, Insightful)
Robert Heinlein put it best... (Score:2)
(Shrug) I don't see the harm in it. (Score:2, Insightful)
But I think that hunters have the right to hunt as long as they aren't harming other human beings. I don't care for it but there are lots of things people do that I don't like that fall under the heading of "none of my business."
Now, letting the blind hunt sounds like a joke. But, given
by the same logic (Score:3, Interesting)
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Most schools from 1776 up until mid 1950's did exactly that.
allow 5-year-olds to drive cars as long as they have an adult to work the pedals for them,
I drove an Army jeep that way when I was 6. Didn't hit anything.
and formally entitle idiots to run for governor (and then president) as long as they "surround themselv
Why hunt? (Score:5, Insightful)
The ultimate kill with a rifle is only the very end of the process. It's kinder than the older methods, such as a bow and arrow, which often wound an animal without killing it, and you have to track it to put it out of its misery. A rifle can drop an animal immediately.
If you eat meat, you can hardly claim that having somebody else kill your dinner puts you on a higher moral plane, especially if you've seen the way animals are treated in our factory-farms. Hunting puts you directly in touch with what you're eating, guts and blood and all.
So it sounds silly at first blush, but the blind can be active participants in a hunt. They still have ears and even noses; they can still be outside; they still eat what they kill; they still have the camaraderie of a hunting party. If the technology lets them participate even more fully in the process, why not?
There are, by the way, an awful lot of hunters who hunt for other reasons. Some will use a lot of high-tech to make it practically shooting fish in a barrel; they seem to care more about the kill than the hunt. I know they exist, but that does not describe most hunters in my experience.
I myself do not hunt, but I limit my animal products when I can to ones I believed were raised and slaughtered humanely.
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And this is something that someone without sight can do?
So it sounds silly at first blush, but the blind can be active participants in a hunt.
If someone is aiming for them, telling them when to fire, how are they really an active participant? That sounds pretty passive to me.
Re:Why hunt? (Score:5, Insightful)
why can't you think about that without blowing some beautiful wild animals brains out?"
You can think about it all you want, but until you actually do it and take responsibility for it, it's just an abstraction with no reality. You are alienated from it. Like raising a child or traveling overseas -- you can theorize all you want, but there's no reality to it until you jump into it. You're just engaging in fantasy. It's like saying you feel sorry for poor people but you don't actually give to charity or try to help people out. It's all in your mind, no reality.
">> Certainly there are some people who are bloodthirsty, but that doesn't mean that everyone who hunts is.
Of course it does. Anyone with half a brain and who isn't bloodthirsty would prefer the continuation of natural beauty from the animal continuing to live. Or do you find a field full of corpses attractive?"
You do realize that prey animals need to be hunted in order to be healthy, right? Prey animals produce more offspring than the environment can support. It's natural selection.
Here in Ohio, there are so many deer, feeding off corn in the summer, and then there are too many and they slowly starve to death in the winter. We have taken away their natural predators such as wolves and mountain lions, so now it is more important than ever that we hunt them. In the case where there are not enough deer taken by hunters, the Ohio Dept. of Natural Resources has to go out and kill enough so that they don't totally strip bark off of trees in their desperate search for food. In fact, about five years ago, we had a deer overpopulation in Sharon woods park here in Columbus. The department of parks had to shoot female deer with birth control so they wouldn't destroy the park. Most rural counties can't afford the expensive deer birth control and can't tag every female deer in the county, so hunting has to happen.
Your field full of corpses is strawman is disgusting. I'm taking about hunting and eating. In many parts of the country, hunting makes up a large part of a family's food throughout the year. They take a few deer, put them in the freezer, and eat from it all year long. If they had to give up hunting and buy their meat from a store, they wouldn't be able to afford it. The fact that you can't separate a horror-movie psychopath from a responsible hunter shows how closed-minded you are. Your sick fantasies of rotting corpses shows how little you know and how disconnected you are from the reality of hunting.
"I am taking more responsibility, by ensuring the animal get killed by professionals in a regulated humane way."
What exactly do you do to take more responsibility other than just buy meat? You are aware of the outright torture that goes on in factory farming, I would assume? Do you buy free range meat?
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In order for you to live, something has to die, that's part of being a consumer in the ecosystem rather than a producer, get over it.
Hunting is unethical (Score:2)
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Game hunting is about putting food on the table. When I took my hunter's ed a few months ago, the instructor was explicit about not taking (shooting) an animal if you would not be able to harvest it. In fact some states make it a crime to shoot a game animal (aka Deer, Elk, etc) and then not use the meat.
On the other hand, varmint hunting (aka prairie dogs, rock chucks, coons, etc) is more "recreational", though it does serve a purpose
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As long as the animal being shot (even recreationally) is eaten, then it represnts one less animal that lives its life in an unnatural and often vigorously inhumane environment, only to meet a very, very stressful and quite occasionally painful end.
On the balance, the deer that lived free and was shot had a *far* better quality of life -- and, yes, quality of death -- than 99% of the animals that you find laid out nice and
Michigan too (Score:2)
No (Score:5, Insightful)
Lets say they accidentally shot someone somehow...who is liable? The person who told the blind person to fire or the blind person for pulling the trigger?
I'm sorry if I sound like a dick, but life isn't fair. Being blind means that hunting (as well as driving and a whole host of other things) is just one of those things that you are not going to be able to do.
I'd be really curious as to what their motivation is as well...I mean, not trying to judge...but isn't the point of hunting the skill involved in tracking and bagging your kill? If someone else is doing all of that for you, really the only thing you're doing is pulling a trigger that kills an animal. I'd go so far as to say that the blind person would really just be doing the easy wrap-up of someone elses kill.
But this brings up another point...if all they're doing is pulling the trigger since they can't sight targets...why not just let them loose in a room with some ambient forest noises, some animal noise sound board (complete with death sounds) and a fan or 2 to simulate wind and let them loose with a gun loaded with blanks?
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Some regular hunters may want this but not many. There have been provisions in many places that allow the handicapped advantages that they alone can use. Crossbows are a common hunting tool that fall into that cate
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I strongly suspect that the definition of "legally blind" will be very broad.
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In this case, the laser sight would enable someone with a spotting scope to monitor the aiming point from a few feet away, instead of what might be a very uncomfortable position over the shoulder of the person holding the gun.
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