Movie Theaters Haven't Innovated Beyond Popcorn, Says Netflix CEO (variety.com) 213
Janko Roettgers, reporting for Variety: Asked about his company's relationship with major theater chains, Netflix CEO Reed Hastings didn't pull any punches on Thursday. "How did distribution innovate in the movie business in the last 30 years? Well, the popcorn tastes better, but that's about it," he quipped. "What Netflix wants to do is to unleash film," he said. "It's fundamentally about growing the movie business." [...] On Thursday, Hastings pushed back against the notion that the company aims to bypass theaters. "We are not anti theater," he said. "We just want things to come out at the same time."
Microwave popcorn is cutting edge (Score:2)
Comment removed (Score:4, Insightful)
Re: Microwave popcorn is cutting edge (Score:2)
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YiffyPop
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hopefully the microwave wont be able to call home
Ummm... it has a microwave transmitter built in. It doesn't need wifi... it can talk to the satellites!!
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If your microwave's magnetron has access to the outside world you have more serious problems than it spying on you.
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Microwaves use around 2.4Ghz just like wifi routers, so maybe if you put a whole bunch of routers/AP's in, you can jam the microwave oven's ability to communicate. Turnabout is fair play?
Re:Microwave popcorn is cutting edge (Score:5, Insightful)
Christ yes! Microwave popcorn is surely one of the signs of the Apocalypse and an abomination before the Lord. "And lo I did see the fifth rider, and he rode in on a rubbery margarine-flavored piece of popped corn, and the name written on the bib tied around his puffy neck was 'Tastes like old shoes'."
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Quick story:
So, my wife loves popcorn. She grew up in a Soviet satellite state and they didn't really have good popcorn, so when she got here and was at university finishing her PhD, she really glommed onto it, and microwave popcorn was such a novelty that she and our daughter used to eat it all the time. It made the house smell like a chemical plant burning down and really tasted bad.
About a year ago, I was
Re: Microwave popcorn is cutting edge (Score:3)
I prefer air popped, personally.
We just got a new air popper because the top part melted on the old one to the point it no longer properly diverted the corn to the bowl. It was a cheap $15 unit we got over 10 years ago.
The benefit of air popped is you have the ability to easily control how much (or little) oil/butter/salt/topping is on your popcorn. Still get some unpopped kernels, though.
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I second the tumeric (Score:2)
Re:Microwave popcorn is cutting edge (Score:5, Insightful)
World-wide distribution on day #1. No more scratched, third-hand, celluloid reels. Better screens, better projectors, better sound. 3D projection on applicable movies.
At the end of the day it's just a dark room full of chairs with a screen at the front. What else is there to innovate Mr. Hastings?
Oh, yeah, one thing: http://theoatmeal.com/comics/m... [theoatmeal.com]
Not widely implemented yet.
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Christ, where is your theater? The deepest darkest jungles of Peru? I don't think our crappy little local theater has had an actual film projector in years.
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Yep. That'd be why I said "no more...".
Ticket prices... (Score:3)
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Found the big city slicker. Are you going to the alamo drafthouse type theaters and ordering a pitcher of beer, or something?
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Found the big city slicker.
I live in San Jose, the third largest city in California and the tenth largest city in the U.S. So, yeah, I guess I'm a big city slicker.
Are you going to the alamo drafthouse type theaters and ordering a pitcher of beer, or something?
If I drink in public, it's because someone else is driving, I'm having a large steak and it's amber ale. The last time that happened was in Las Vegas.
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Why bother eat and drink in theaters? I just save those before and/or after the movie. :P
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Considering just skipping the popcorn, if it's a good movie I've found that I don't really pay any attention to it anyway. I'm just suddenly at the bottom of the bag wondering where all the popcorn went, not worth it in calories nor cash. And without the salt you don't really need the soda either. Have a sugar free gum from your own pocket if you need to chew something out of habit. If the movie can't keep you engaged enough to go without it, you're probably in the wrong movie.
That makes the ticket price ar
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Perhaps you should layoff the popcorn?
I can only afford a large drink these days.
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When you pay to watch the movie you should get a voucher for a free DVD of the same release.
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The only movie where 3D was worth it was Gravity.
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Yep, we have stopped going to the theatre for most movies.
Going out to the movies is the only time I get out of the house. Otherwise, I'm staring at my computer screen while working on my $1B app idea.
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and...
o No dealing with other people's screaming babies
o No babbling children at all (or, if they do, send them to their rooms w/o their cellphones... they'll learn fast)
o No one playing with their cellphones
o No one coughing the latest airborne disease out behind / next to you
o No one talking (or if they do, pause and YELL at them)
o Movie shows on your schedule
o The ability to pause for bathroo
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You forgot fresh popcorn more than you can ever eat using http://www.toptenreviews.com/h... [toptenreviews.com] and of course the microwave is really good for one thing specifically, lots of melty butter, actual real live butter to pour over the popcorn. Tips, fill one container with freshly popped pop corn and then decant to plastic tub with, lid, pour over melted butter, put on lid and shake (microwave can get a little bit fussy about too small a volume to heat, so either use lots and lots of butter or add a glass with some
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None of those problems in some places (Score:2)
I think those days are long gone.
Innovation in theaters? (Score:3)
Now, I know that when it first came out, the digital theater systems tended to "blue screen of death" too often, but please.
Useful Innovation (Score:2)
What about digital distribution of digital content displayed via huge digital display systems?
It basically looks just the same as that from a film. It might save the cinema money but it does nothing for the customer. There is pseudo-3D I suppose but that shrinks the screen and gives many people a splitting headache after a few minutes. So I suppose the criterion should be innovation that is good for the customer.
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It basically looks just the same as that from a film.
The fact it "looks just the same" (not really, if you know what to look for) doesn't mean it isn't innovation.
So I suppose the criterion should be innovation that is good for the customer.
Why? Isn't an innovation that makes it easier to distribute content in higher quality an innovation, even if you can't tell the difference?
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Why? Isn't an innovation that makes it easier to distribute content in higher quality an innovation, even if you can't tell the difference?
Yes technically it is an innovation but unless it does something to improve the cinema experience why do I care? It is like the innovation of circular tea bags. Yes this is technically an innovation and yes it will temporarily boost sales but only until everyone figures out that it makes no difference whatsoever and goes back to what they were doing before. What a lot of people seem to forget is that it is not innovation we want it is useful innovation.
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Yes technically it is an innovation but unless it does something to improve the cinema experience why do I care?
Who says you have to care about any innovation? The Netflick flack is claiming there has been none, not that there has been nothing that Roger W Moore cares about. "There has been no innovation" is not the same as "there has been no innovation that I care about."
What a lot of people seem to forget is that it is not innovation we want it is useful innovation.
And the digital distribution of movie content is useful to a lot of people, just not to you. That's ok, but it doesn't mean it doesn't count at all.
Re:Useful Innovations (Score:2)
It basically looks just the same as that from a film.
You must be too young to remember film, or too senile to remember it. Scratches and dust on film was very noticeable, and became more annoying the longer a film was in use. It's been a while since I've seen a digital projector glitch, but I remember film getting stuck and melting somewhat frequently. And don't forget the projectionist getting the reels mixed up.
Re:Innovation in theaters? (Score:5, Informative)
While digital changed quite a bit on the backend, how did it actually change the experience of watching a film in the theater?
Sure, we can point to a spec sheet that says the resolution has improved, but did it really change people's experiences? We had IMAX during the analog days, so we weren't lacking for sharp, hi-res images, and even in everyday theaters the resolution was already high enough that most viewers didn't notice when the digital changeover occurred. The speakers we use today are in many cases the same ones in the same configurations we used decades ago. And when was the last time normal people actually cared about colors? I'd wager it was when Technicolor was still new, if even then.
There's less visual noise (e.g. specks, film grain, scan lines, etc.) and less cases of a projectionists forgetting to start the movie on time (thanks to it being easier to automate now), but otherwise I can't think of much else I've noticed that's changed, let alone anything that I actually thought was a problem before.
On the other hand, Netflix has completely changed the way that we as a culture consume media. Binge watching wasn't a thing before they were around. Or how about getting back hours of your day, thanks to Netflix taking 5 hours of broadcast TV and turning it into less than 3.5 hours by stripping out commercials and skipping intro sequences. Packing movies for a trip doesn't involve packing anything extra, thanks to them. These are all things that they helped push into the mainstream.
I didn't even realize how spoiled I was by Netflix until I signed up for Sling TV. Being able to fast forward, rewind, or pause a VOD? Netflix always can, but Sling sometimes can't. Being able to watch anything available without paying extra? Netflix can, but Sling usually can't. Watching something while my wife watches something else? Netflix, yes, Sling, not without paying even more. The list goes on and on (which was why we cancelled our Sling subscription within the trial period), which just went to show us how much Netflix has changed our expectations about how we consume media.
Moreover, as someone who never bought popcorn (or any other concessions) in the theaters, I'm not even enjoying THAT improvement.
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Actually, it was. We didn't call it binge watching though. We called them "marathons". During holidays, TV stations would do lots of marathons (especially cable channels) where they'd air the entire season at once (they still do). Theatres had movie marathons where just before a new sequel came out, they'd show the predecessors. Star Wars and Lord of the Rings were popular movie marathon showings, as were Star Trek.
Heck, people sat down with entire DVD bo
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At the cinema near me among other things it's meant many short runs or one off screenings of indie films and even screening sporting events on the big screen. It's brought the price down massively for small players and provides a lot more choice for consumers. I've got to see a few "cult" movies that way and even re-screenings are not so difficult as they used to be. The local cin
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Popcorn (Score:2)
Re: Popcorn (Score:3)
It was better 30 years ago. Coconut oil and fake butter flavor with big salt crystals. Now it's coated in some sort of nanotech salt and the texture is more crunchy, like packing material. Fortunately I only need to go for IMAX-worthy presentations these days.
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My best movie going experience (Score:2)
was sitting on a log in a rainforest watching The Neverending Story projected on a bed sheet.
Maybe they could try that.
Things out at the same time *is* anti-theater (Score:2)
No one in their right fucking mind is going to pay $10 for a popcorn, $7 for a soda, and $15 for a movie ticket PER PERSON if they can watch that shit at home with their whole family for a small fee. OF COURSE that would put theaters out of business.
Re: Things out at the same time *is* anti-theater (Score:3)
You're claiming that nobody really likes theatres, that they just put up with them for the sake of access to new content.
You might be projection your options onto the masses. And not in 70mm.
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How many theaters have even have 70mm projectors anymore? How many even have pseudo-IMAX? Shit, my local theater is still showing most movies in 2K. I can go buy a 4K HDR TV at Best Buy right now with a better picture than my theater, and pick up a 7.1 sound system while I'm at it--all for less than what I would have paid for a 1080p TV just a few years ago. And I can make my own damn popcorn for a lot less than $10 a bag.
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It impresses the girls, so you've pointed out well where the mind is focused when paying for all the marked up cinema fare.
In 30 years we got... (Score:3)
1. 3D
2. Better sound and video (I remember some movies being limited to complaint movie theaters)
3. Chairs (reclining)
4. More previews (and annoying pre-screening stuff)
5. Online ticket purchases
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How about at least 64 years? [wikipedia.org]
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Er
"Polarized 3-D projection was demonstrated experimentally in the 1890s."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
Yeah new.
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1. Meh, saw Avatar in 3D, 3D wasn't bad but I will not pay the premium for 3D again... should not have paid the price in general for Avatar.
2. Very nice, though at the same time there have been significant home theater picture and sound.
3. Meh, don't think any of the local theaters ever installed this.
4. Ebbeh! This innovation leads to more Netflix.
5. Meh, I've never purchased tickets online, if the theater is so packed I need to, I don't really want to be there.
Amusing list of innovations though.
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For the most part, avatar did 3d right. They only had something jump out of the screen a couple times. Avatar as a movie just felt like Mass Effect 3 to me in a way, good concept and good parts but if it had just been done right...
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farewell iPic (Score:2)
"Shunned by major theater chains, Netflix last fall struck a deal with iPic Entertainment, a small chain with 15 theaters."
How long until MPAA finds some excuse to cut off iPic Entertainment from mainstream distribution?
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iPic is pricey, but good. Small theatres, full-bore recliners, blankets, pillows, storage areas IN CHAIR, free popcorn, in-seat food and bar service.
Been to a VIP movie lounge lately? (Score:5, Interesting)
I can't stand going to general admission shows since I first tried it a couple of years back now. Reserved seating for the movie, in-seat menu service for meals or concession before the movie starts, wider and more comfortable seats than GA, and with a bit more legroom to boot. Tickets are a bit more than GA, but man are they worth it!
Gonna go see Disney's classic tale of Stockholm syndrome tomorrow afternoon with my wife in a VIP lounge....and there won't be any screaming kids. I heartily recommend it if you are willing to shell out the extra couple of bucks per ticket for an improved theater experience.
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What you are after is exactly the opposite of what I am after when I want to see a movie.
Weird smells, chewing noises all around you and people who are talking and walking around in the theatre. Please, no!
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this
we went to do our usual christmas eve movie. The only option was a theater that was basically a 40 seater with recliners and reserved seating. Ticket price was still the same.
They've finally started to realize that was people want is to just watch movies at home, and so they are just trying to replicate that experience. This is why I never go to the theaters unless prodded by friends, otherwise my own home theater setup provides a much better experience
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Any appearance that I might have been suggesting that *I* was somehow more important than anyone else because I go to such lounges is a misinterpretation on your part, since I was only referring to the term "VIP" as it applies to what they happen name their lounges.
Also, they can't turn all theaters into such lounges because minors are prohibited from them, primarily by virtue of the fact that they serve alcohol.
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really? (Score:3, Funny)
"What Netflix wants to do is to unleash film," he said. "It's fundamentally about growing the movie business."
How magnanimous. And here I believed they just wanted to make a lot of money.
So I'll be waiting for my free netflix account, since all they want is to "grow the movie business".
Good lord: You sell entertainment. Don't pretend like you're healing lepers.
Well (Score:4, Insightful)
Considering Netflix rarely gets any new movies anymore, one thing movie theaters have that Netflix doesn't is new movies.
Not the point (Score:3)
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Not really. Audio quality peaked about twenty years ago.
A nth-generation screening copy of a film has practically the same resolution as digital 2K (about 1080p), and 2K is still the norm among projectors out there.
And during these years, theatres have been "upgraded" to show stereoscopic "3D", often with the "Real D" system.
However, with "Real D" you get less than half the light intensity of a 2D movie and worse: cross-talk between the left and right eyes. And then there are the artefacts that are inherent
Reserved seating (Score:2)
Not true. In my city in the US, theaters have introduced at-seat table service and reserved seating. The former is nice to have but the latter is transformative. No queues, no racing for seats, no getting stuck in lousy seats or separated from your friends. Contrary to Netflix's self-interest, there are still films that benefit from being viewed in a movie theater, and reserved seating completely removes any tension or unknowns from the experience.
Movie theaters (Score:2)
Theater Merchandising? (Score:2)
Why don't movie theaters do merchandising?
When people are done seeing a movie, there should be a shop that sells copies of the soundtrack, copies of the other movies in the franchise, related toys (as appropriate), etc. They could even sell the Blu-Ray of the movie you just saw (whether restricted sales to movie-goers, sold to anyone, or pre-sold with day-of-release delivery).
There is so much in the way of movie merchandising, and the theaters seem to completely miss it. Even if they're contractually lock
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Good point. Theatres in my area usually have an arcade, a variety of food options beyond popcorn & soda and... well, that's it.
They really should have a joined space (separately accessible outside theatre hours) that sells movie-related merchandise. I'd certainly make sure posters were on the list. And though you'd ultimately have to measure-and-order, I think using the bricks & mortar presence to market licensed movie costume replicas wouldn't be a bad idea, even if it's just a fairly normal jac
E-Magine (Score:3)
In Michigan we have theaters called E-Magine. Awful name, outstanding theaters. All of the theaters themselves are fairly small, which means you aren't sitting too far away from the screen. The screen stretches from wall to wall, and they are all dimensioned properly. All of the seats are motorized extra-wide recliners. For a couple of extra dollars you can sit in a row with more leg room than you could possibly need. All the screens, projectors and speakers are properly maintained. They also have reserved seating so you can pick your seats hours before you show up to the theater. Most theaters also have waiter service, so you can just sit down and they'll bring you a drink and popcorn, including liquor, before the movie starts.
They also have special matinee showings for kids with sensory issues, so no trailers, they keep the lights on dimly, and turn the sound down, which is fantastic.
Ticket prices are, of course, a bit more than regular, but we don't see many movies so it doesn't matter that much to us.
It's a lovely snark, but: video game finals! (Score:2)
My theatre (Cineplex, in Canada) hosts video game finals.
WorldGaming.com, my old customer, is now part of the Cineplex chain.
There's nothing like a theatre full of gamers cheering their heroes on!
I'm a motocrossman, myself, but these folks are serious
Digital Cinema (Score:2)
"How did distribution innovate in the movie business in the last 30 years?"
Umm, I don't know, how about getting rid of film and adopting the Digital Cinema System Specification [wikipedia.org]?
1998 was the first public demo of a digital cinema projector. As of 3 May 2016, 98.2% of the world's cinema screens are now digitized, likely saving $1 billion in distribution costs.
Re:Not really true (Score:4, Interesting)
We had a theater that cost less or the same for most shows that had tables and food. Alamo Drafthouse Theaters are popular for serving beer.
I'd say our local theater has started doing a lot of 'innovative' things compared to how I remember theaters growing up.
Our local theater has started serving beer as well.
For 9PM and later shows rated R movies are no one under 17. With or without a parent.
They have early morning AM shows for kids.
They have shows with lower volume and higher house lights for autistic kids that are sensitive to the dark and loud noises. So they can get out and socialize.
They replay old movies all the time and will have a "Back to the Future" or similar Marathons.
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Our local theatre introduced a "Gold Class" theatre. 40 seats in total, all recliners. Full service selected up front from the menu at the bar and you could tell them when to bring your food in (a beer every 10 minutes is always a safe choice). Best of all, adults only. No one ever threw popcorn or talked in that theatre.
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People do enjoy watching first run movies and live sports in a crowd where the reaction of the spectators is part of the entertainment, and a source of stories aftewards.
And that is why I dont go to the movies. Having to deal with stupid crowd reactions during a first run movie is not something I want or enjoy, at most it would be a story afterwards about how annoying it was
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Give me a DVD or streaming version and I'll watch the mov
Back to the future Re:More than popcorn (Score:2)
They darn well innovated the 'plush' theaters.
More like re-invented them.
Ever been to a classic theater from before WWII?
Some of those are very ornate and very classy, on par with a classy stage-play theater or concert hall, except the acoustics generally aren't as good as a concert hall. Many of them are now used for stage plays or other events instead of film.
Re:A bit of history (Score:5, Insightful)
Brazier/brassiere.
One is for holding up boobies, the other is something workmen warm their hands on.
You can see how confusion arises...
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a brasserie [wikipedia.org]
No thanks, I just ate.
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A woman running a small business in NYC making dresses invented the Brazier so her dresses would look better on her customers.
The word you're looking for is "brassiere". A "brazier" is a cooking device. And yeah, I know what you meant; context and all that. I'm just one of the shrinking number of literates that find this sort of thing jarring and distracting. Not as annoying as someone using a smartphone in a theatre, but see below. Don't fret though; eventually we'll all die out.
Personally I enjoy going to see the occasional film in a movie theatre. We have a very nice television and comfortable couches, but it's nice to get out
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Here's a hint about innovation: If you're saying "more" then you haven't discovered any.
I don't blame the theaters for charging a lot for popcorn, they've got to make money somewhere and most of the independent theaters have gone out of business because they didn't charge enough for snacks, or find any other way to remain in existence. But really, how could they possibly remain relevant as a home theater experience comparable to the theater became affordable to the masses?
My popcorn beats the living shit ou
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Here's a hint about innovation: If you're saying "more" then you haven't discovered any.
That's certainly not true. Doing something as a one-off, or in a way that it only works in very limited applications is different from figuring out how to make it mainstream.
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Imax used to mean really fucking big screen, sadly most of the new imax screens being built today are little bigger than the standard screen sizes, with the imax logo slapped on it and boosted ticket prices.
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Netflix was quite innovative in their CDN. If you haven't worked "at scale" before: every time you add a 0 to the end of your user base, there's a whole new set of lessons to learn. Netflix is the single biggest source of web traffic (by bytes) on the internet. Getting there required innovation.
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Yes, from engineers on a project doing regular coding work....but that's not what I'm talking about.
"innovation" is such a misused and over-broad term these days....
Netflix's concept is not "innovative" from a startup perspective.
Everyone in the world thought it would be cool to watch movies over the internet...the only problem was copyright holders.
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Netflix's concept is not "innovative" from a startup perspective.
So ... they don't defraud VCs out of their money?
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no, the concept of what defines "innovation" is so ruined by hype and nonsense it is hurting our industry
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No "innovation in distribution" was Netflix's claim, which clearly isn't true. As a viewer, since I never see movies in the first couple weeks of a run, digital was a huge jump in quality for me. But given the nearly empty theater around me when I go, clearly I'm in the minority as my habits here.
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Guilty. If the movie sucks, we tend to savage the hell out of it (though hopefully not loud enough to disturb others overly). Rapt attention is reserved for a good movie, but bad movies have their own appeal...kinda. Were we at home, we'd likely just have turned it off, but some of us at work made weekly outings for dinner and a movie, and the bad ones were more fun.
Also: Rocky Horror Picture Show showings. Have props ready.
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Netflix did little more than that until they started making their own content a few years ago.
And they suck at it. Most of Netflix original content is garbage. Meanwhile, almost every single series made by Amazon Prime is fantastic (Hand of God, Goliath, Man in high castle, Patriot, etc). The day Amazon can make streaming as smooth as Netflix, there's no more Netflix.
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