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Samsung to Launch Dual Blu-ray HD DVD Player 156

Posted by Zonk
from the best-of-both-worlds dept.
narramissic writes "File this one under 'if you can't beat em, join em.' Samsung, one of the main backers of the Blu-ray Disc format, Friday said it plans to release an optical disc player this year that will play both Blu-ray Disc and the rival HD DVD format. With the announcement, Samsung becomes the second company to shift from a single-format stance (LG launched a dual player in North America earlier this year.) 'Our main concern is with the consumer and not a particular technology,' said Samsung spokesman Kwak Bumjoon."
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Samsung to Launch Dual Blu-ray HD DVD Player

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  • And so it begins. I wonder if M$ will start grabbing these up now since someone took the plunge and they use Samsung already.
    • I think you're right.

      'Our main concern is with the consumer and not a particular technology,' said Samsung
      And M$ can't let anyone do that!
    • Re:MMMhm... (Score:4, Insightful)

      by goombah99 (560566) on Friday April 13, 2007 @04:09PM (#18723689)
      How long before the device manufacturer's figure this pattern out
      1) Create two competing technonologies that are equally sufficient but incompatible.
      2) Stifle standardization
      3) market more expensive devices that handle both, as both a marketing advantage, a manufacturing skill advantage,
      4) and to inflate costs, assuming profit margin is proportional to gross, and the number of units sold is the same.
      5) profit!

      there is no ?????

      A very interesting side effect is that MS can no longer dictate platform specs. This is remarkably new phenomena and worth watching.

      Finally Could the slash dot filter PLEASE stop people from writing M$ instead of MS. (;_;)

      • Re:MMMhm... (Score:4, Insightful)

        by Mockylock (1087585) on Friday April 13, 2007 @04:15PM (#18723781) Homepage
        Sorry about the "M$" trouble, I didn't realize it offended anyone.. though I'm not anti-microsoft. I think Microsoft is beginning to learn that being a little to assertive with certain technologies, and pushing them on others.. is becoming pretty hard to do, now that the market is becoming more and more competitive. They're to the point where they're beginning to actually let things unravel and ride the wave in. Good or bad, I don't know.. but it's still interesting as you said.
        • Re:MMMhm... (Score:5, Insightful)

          by goombah99 (560566) on Friday April 13, 2007 @04:23PM (#18723925)
          Wow! A humble apology on slashdot--land of thick skins.
          • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

            by alisson (1040324)
            Huh... I never knew there was anyone offended by this, either. I suppose I can stop writing it, as well. Of course, part of me still wants to write something like that... *contemplates ranting about people paying $600 to be beta testers....*

            Anyway, I can see the benefit to the hybrid player. Why sell two products when you can just have one? Less costs = more profits :) But I'm still not convinced there's a point to either format. DVD is fine. It's the same problem with XP Vs Vista, or as it was with N64 Vs
            • Do most DVDs actually use the entire 4.7 Gb? No.

              Actually, yes. Most DVDs these days are movies, and most movies are dual layer (or double sided with 4.7Gigs). In either case they use more than a total of
              Also, what about that annoying pause when DVDs change layers? This is something that will be done away with on HD discs. i.e. a good feature. So there are a few bones with the new formats. Just not enough (yet) to make anyone want to switch.

              But here's a question for everyone: Spielberg has ye
              • Edit:
                "...a total of .LE. 4.7Gb."

                It didn't like the less than and equals signs.
              • by alisson (1040324)
                Honestly, I'd need a much bigger TV before I'd care :)

                Which is precisely the problem. Too much upfront cost.
        • I would mod this up, but there is no category for "Gracious"
      • Re: (Score:3, Funny)

        Are we still talking about the HD/Blu-ray thing or are we on to the PC/Mac thing again?


        warning: The above content may test positive for sarcasm and/or could be a failed attempt at humor and as such should be taken with a pound of salt.
      • While combining functions on drives is nice since it saves space and, once the prices settle, even final costs of having just one drive in the computer. So far fragility created by mergeing devices that can fail in different has not proven to be a big problem that I have seen. e.g. the CD writer on the cd/dvd combo burns out prematurely and I have to replace the whole shebang. The motors or tray gears seem to go first.

        But what does happen is that it takes longer and longer for the gorram computer to mo
        • by Danga (307709) on Friday April 13, 2007 @06:34PM (#18725781)
          For what it is worth I work as a software developer in the field of computer forensics/data recovery specializing in optical media so I thought I could clear some of your misconceptions up.

          But what does happen is that it takes longer and longer for the gorram computer to mount the cd/dvd. This is especially noticable when one inserts a damaged CD into a drive. the computer grunts and groans freaking for ever trying to decide it it is looking at a CD, and CD-R, D DVD-r, and DVD+R, a DVD. And each of these seems to have some different time consuming error protocol that involves trying to spin the thing at different speeds. Now they are going to be adding not one but two more protocols. And I imagine it won't be long before we have HDDVD-R and HDDVD+R and so on thrown on top of this.

          This is NOT an issue with the drive (well a drive that is in good working order). A mounting problem is an issue with your OS. When you insert a disc into the drive the drive should go into what is called the "ready state" relatively quickly because all the drive does is basically tries to see if it can access the disc (it looks for a TOC among other things). When you insert a damaged disc the reason the computer grunts and groans is because the disc is damaged and it may be having trouble getting TOC information etc from the disc. The reason it is spinning up and down a whole bunch of different times is most likely because your OS is attempting to mount the disc and is trying to look for a file system on the disc and is having a lot of trouble doing so.

          If you have an external case for a CD/DVD drive then a simple way to see that the problems you are seeing are the OS's fault is the next time you have a disc that exhibits the problems you mentioned above is to shut down the machine and then re-insert the disc into the drive. Most likely the light will blink a few times and the drive might spin up a little more than normal but the drive should stop trying to access the disc in much less time that when the computer was running.

          As far as more formats coming out "adding more protocols" that is not really the case. Other than having to add different hardware the rest of how the drive acts should remain the same. The only way a drive is able to tell what kind of disc is inserted is by looking at what is called a profile number which is recorded at the factory on the disc and each type of disc has a different one. For example 0x9 is CD-R, 0xa is CD-RW, 0x11 is DVD-R, 0x1b is DVD+R, 0x2b is DVD+R DL, 0x51 is HD DVD-R and on and on. It really is not that much more overhead and sure a few more things might be added to the MMC standard but the drives functionality is nearly identical.

          it's going to take minutes when you shove in that Bad CD before your computer lets you eject it.

          You hit the nail on the head with this one without even knowing it. It is your COMPUTER ie the OS or some other software trying to access the disc that is locked up and has probably issued a command to lock the tray so that you cannot eject the disc by pressing the eject button on the drive.

          Please stop blaming drives when it really is not the drives fault.
          • by goombah99 (560566)
            Well I as not trying to blame the drive. I was speaking to the net effect. But from what you are telling me, it sounds like the drive almost instantly knows what propocol the disk is (cd, dvd+r etc). So presumably all the grunting is the OS trying to coax the data off the bad sectors. If so then I would extrapolate that adding new protocols won't actually extend the period of lock-up directly.

            However I guess the reason why the lockup period for a bad DVD is noticably longer is simply because the DVD is b
            • by Danga (307709)
              Well there are a couple of things to consider when looking at the probability of the failure per disc comparing CD to DVD. Overall the general concensus is DVD is safer due to MUCH better error correction. However, there are other things to consider such as if the error correcting codes (ECC) on the disc is damaged can you still maybe access the data on the disc?

              With a CD you have 2352 bytes per sector to work with and it depends on the recording mode as to how much of the sector is dedicated to ECC. You
              • by goombah99 (560566)
                Interesting. But why would you lose the 16 sectors just because the ECC is borked. Seems like one could still read the sectors, cross ones fingers, and ignore the ECC.
                • by Danga (307709)
                  Since DVD does not have a raw mode like CD it will just fail completely when there is a problem with the ECC. It really sucks but there is just no way around it with a consumer level drive.
      • by tepples (727027) <tepples&gmail,com> on Friday April 13, 2007 @04:37PM (#18724199) Homepage Journal

        Finally Could the slash dot filter PLEASE stop people from writing M$ instead of MS. (;_;)

        Then how can we paste classic BASIC code?

        10 LET M$ = "Microsoft"
        20 PRINT M$;" put too much DRM in Windows Vista."
        30 END

        Use of the "M$" moniker on Slashdot often appears to refer to Microsoft's legacy as a developer of BASIC interpreters.

        • I'd like to tweak it a bit, run it, and sit Ballmer in front of it until he foams at the mouth....more so than usual, anyway:

          10 LET M$ = "Microsoft"
          20 PRINT M$;" put too much DRM in Windows Vista. ";
          30 GOTO 20
          40 END

          Level II basic indeed.

          As for BR vs. HD? The sooner the suits embrace Kwak's philosophy, the sooner their sales will pick up. With RIAA's power on the wane, we'll find that the savvier companies will drop their tired ol' line faster than a red-hot vibrator.

      • by misleb (129952)

        3) market more expensive devices that handle both, as both a marketing advantage, a manufacturing skill advantage,

        That would be a bad strategy. Supporting both formats is only be feasable if it can be done with minimal impact on the final cost of the product compared to devices that can only play one format or the other. Well, i'm sure some peole would buy them, but I don't think it would be a market dominating strategy.

        If *I* were in the market for an HD player, I'd first be looking at which one format

        • by goombah99 (560566)
          In the long run, after set up costs are ammortized, combined units are cheaper than multiple units. This is especially true from the point of view of a systems integrator like Dell. So in the long run combined units win. That is as long as there any perceived value for the alternate format. if no one uses Blue ray 5 years from now then you are completely correct.
          • by misleb (129952)
            Definitly, if you really need to support both formats, a combined unit is going to be the way to go. I'm just talking about how the average consumer might look at it. Although I'm no average consumer. :-P

            -matthew
      • by westlake (615356)
        A very interesting side effect is that MS can no longer dictate platform specs. This is remarkably new phenomena and worth watching.

        Explain to me how it is a loss for Microsoft when a major league player in consumer electronics breaks with Sony to enter the HD-DVD market.

        Unlike LG's currently released "Super Multi Blue" player, Samsung's deck will have full support for HD DVD's much-touted Interactive Features. LG's player, by comparison, gave the impression of a Blu-ray deck with HD DVD playback include

      • Re:MMMhm... (Score:5, Funny)

        by Digital Pizza (855175) on Friday April 13, 2007 @09:56PM (#18727715)
        I agree that the dollar-sign substitution thing has grown old, but somehow "MICROS~1" still makes me smile :)
        • by Malc (1751)
          The use of terms like M$, Mickey$oft, etc aren't just getting old, they're childish too. They devalue what somebody is trying to say as they come across as some sort of juvenile with no credibility. I for one start skipping comments like that, or don't take them seriously - if others do the same then the person who wrote it has sort of wasted their time.
  • Blu-ray is going the way of the dodo. Dead as a doornail in 5 years. Yet another Sony proprietary format to go down in flames, and it's probably a good thing given Sony's DRM and anti-consumer rights stance. So, as predicted, Blu-ray will be the next betamax.

    Congrats, Sony. It's not that easy to repeat history. Every. Single. Time.
    • Re: (Score:1, Troll)

      by Pluvius (734915)
      HD-DVD is going the way of the dodo.

      Fixed.

      Rob
    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      Sony does have a knack for picking the wrong side, but BluRay seems to be pulling ahead. Yes, one of the BluRay manufacturers is making a dual format player, but I seem to recall that one of the original HD-DVD players is, as well.

      Personally, I'm rooting for BluRay. It's the more ambitious format, and two years from now, if HD-DVD wins, we're going to be wishing for those bigger disks, especially for computer drives. I'm not buying anything yet, though, even with my new HDTV.

      The dual format players are n
      • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

        by Fezmid (774255)
        Actually the only other company to do the dual format player is LG -- a former BD exclusive CE company...

        On the other hand, Samsung has come out and said that if consumers want an HD DVD standalone, that they'll make it. Onkyo and Meridian have also said that they will have HD DVD players and there's a Chinese company that said they'll have a cheap one ($200?) by the end of the year.

        As for storage -- you really think there's that big of a difference between 15G and 25G, when drives are coming out to be 750
  • by karnal (22275)
    I would love to invest in a blu-ray or HD-DVD player. In fact, in looking at a recent one-call mag or some such, I see that there are "entry-level" HD-DVD players available for $399.

    hmmm.

    I still don't think that $399 is affordable enough, at least not for me. I didn't have a DVD player until they were around the $100 mark. The other thing I've noticed is that the Blu-Ray players are still expensive - or at least more expensive than the HD-DVD.

    So what gives on the pricing? Average joes will not like to p
    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by icepick72 (834363)
      So what gives on the pricing?


      I believe you answered your own questions earlier in your post when you said:

      I didn't have a DVD player until they were around the $100 mark.

      By saying that you obviously acknowledged that over time the technology price dropped and it became more common-place, there was more competition, etc.
    • by rilister (316428)
      I can't help but agree with you. If they priced HD-DVD/BluRay disk players at $100, I think they'd sell at lot more than at $400. I can't think why they didn't think of that!

      What's more, I heard they make all the internal components out of solid gold! That's crazy: I don't need gold transistor chips. Why don't they make them out of silicon like usual?
      • by timeOday (582209)

        What's more, I heard they make all the internal components out of solid gold! That's crazy: I don't need gold transistor chips. Why don't they make them out of silicon like usual?
        If it's driven by manufacturing costs, why do they price the media so high? I just checked amazon: Casino Royale on Blu-Ray is $27, on DVD it's $16. No, I don't believe a Blu-Ray costs $11 more to manufacture than a DVD.
    • Re: (Score:1, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward

      The other thing I've noticed is that the Blu-Ray players are still expensive - or at least more expensive than the HD-DVD.

      One word: Sony. You see, Sony is basically telling their partners to not sell BD players below the price of the PS3, because they still have this twisted hope/dream that it will help them sell PS3s, but when HD-DVD players are selling for less than the PS3, this logic is twisted in backwards. Sony is literally stunting their own progress here.

      Do I have proof this is entirely Sony's fault? No, but you cannot show me any real reason for the big price difference in HD-DVD and Blu-Ray. They both use esse

      • Re:Cost... (Score:4, Interesting)

        by Pluvius (734915) <pluvius3&gmail,com> on Friday April 13, 2007 @04:51PM (#18724347) Journal
        You see, Sony is basically telling their partners to not sell BD players below the price of the PS3, because they still have this twisted hope/dream that it will help them sell PS3s

        More like actual fact [reghardware.co.uk].

        "The BDA cites a survey in conducted by talking to 10,000 US PS3 owners. It claims more than 80 per cent plan to buy movies on BD. A slightly smaller percentage, just over 75 per cent, said they plan to use their console as their prime device for watching movies."

        Though that proves the converse of what you said (that the PS3 is helping them sell BluRay movies), it's hard to believe that none of those PS3 owners bought one at least in part because it could play BluRay movies.

        Rob
        • No, it doesn't. It proves that PS3 owners are planning to buy Blu-Ray discs. It doesn't mean they bought the system because it plays Blu-Ray. They might have decided to buy it because of the games/feature of the system, and now are deciding to go Blu-Ray because they already have a player. If I was actually planning on investing in HD video, that's the situation I'd be in. I'd be buying PS3 because they still have the Final Fantasy franchise, and then I'd buy Blu-Ray because I already had a player.

          You nee
      • Essentially the same technology? Not really. Bluray layers are 25 GB, HD-DVD layers are 15 GB. Bluray also uses a lens with a numerical aperture of .85; HDDVD uses .65 lens, closer to that of DVD.
    • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

      by maxume (22995)
      It's going to be a longer, slower march. The number of people with no video disc players when DVD came out was pretty big; the number of people with displays that make HD worth it is considerably smaller and the people with the displays are the ones who don't care so much about the cost.
    • The first DVD players were $1000. The prices eventually came down or went up [caryaudio.com]. It's in the nature of most consumer products.

      Do realize, however, there are other advantages besides better video associated with HD-DVD and BluRay. Unfortunately, to amplify the superior audio, you'll have to either use analogue jacks or HDMI. Lower priced players will probably cut out the analogue outputs. The new formats also have better menuing systems than DVD-- but this too can be eliminated. The LG combo player, for instanc
      • by AJWM (19027)
        The first DVD players were $1000.

        I paid something around $1600 for my first VHS VCR (but hey, it could record audio separately. Used that about once.)

        I paid around $600 for my first CD player (but hey, it had subcode ouput! Which I never used and I think only one disc ever took advantage of).

        I paid about $200 for my first DVD player (which could read and output NTSC or PAL, and I've actually used that a couple of times).

        I'm getting cheaper in my old age, I may not bother with an HD/BD player until I can g
      • by elrous0 (869638) *

        The first DVD players were $1000.

        I don't know where people keep getting this bogus "DVD players cost $1000 at launch" crap, but that is simply not true. The first DVD players came out in Spring 1997 and ranged in price from $500 upwards. I know that because I bought a Toshiba SD2006 that spring for $500. By the Fall, they had dipped to $400 (for the SD2006 and its clone, the Phillips 400AT--among others).

        In other words, DVD prices (for both players and discs) were comparable to today's HD-DVD prices at

    • by Quarters (18322)

      I would love to invest in a blu-ray or HD-DVD player...

      Buying a consumer good, especially an electronic device, is not an investment. An investment is when you put your money into something that bears interest, pays a dividend, or appreciates in some other manner. DVD players do not appreciate. They depreciate at an alarming rate, as do most other consumer goods.

      There's nothing wrong with buying a BluRay or HD-DVD player if you can afford it. Don't try to rationalize spending money on something you don'

      • by fbjon (692006)
        It's an investment in personal quality of life, not a monetary investment.
  • A company involved in DRM that gives half a damn about giving the consumer a choice?
    • by drinkypoo (153816)
      It's a company that doesn't want to get left out in the cold if their choice of format doesn't succeed. They don't give a shit about you, but they will pretend they do in order to convince you to give them money. HTH...
      • by evilRhino (638506)
        How is this different from most companies? They exist to make money. Helping out consumers is usually means to an end.
    • Translation (Score:5, Funny)

      by Overzeetop (214511) on Friday April 13, 2007 @04:12PM (#18723737) Journal
      The quote is actually missing some words, let me fill it in for you:

      "Our main concern is with guaranteeing that the consumer's money ends up in our pockets, and in ensuring that our revenue stream does not depend on a particular technology"

      There, that makes more sense.
      • by H8X55 (650339)
        Well duh, they're not in business to champion a certain platform or technology.
        They are in business to make money.
      • by voisine (153062)
        Isn't capitalism great? The way to make sure consumers' money lines your pockets is to produce something they all really want. Three cheers for the profit motive!
        • Yup, sometimes it works. Of course, if the CE end really ran the show, there's be no DRM, and dual disc writers. Talk about adoption of a new format and scrambling for more players. But, alas, the CE divisions don't have nearly the clout of the content divisions.
  • I could see the point of a dual player if both formats had a future. But its looking increasingly likely that HD-DVD would be lucky to see the new year the way things are going. Given that, why would someone bother to buy a dual player, especially since the cost is likely to be substantially higher than a player that just played one format.
    • The fact is that if you actually look at the total sales of both HD-DVD and Blu-Ray movies you will find that Blu-Ray is not leading by that much. link [highdefdigest.com]

      But while abstract ratios and percentages like these have been bandied about for several months now, the Sony report goes one step further, providing the first public release of hard sales figures for HD DVD and Blu-ray discs from Nielsen VideoScan, the home entertainment industry's leading source for competitive sales data.

      Among the numbers revealed: as of

      • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

        by Pluvius (734915)
        The fact is that if you actually look at the total sales of both HD-DVD and Blu-Ray movies you will find that Blu-Ray is not leading by that much.

        The problem with using absolute numbers is that they ignore the fact that HD-DVD movies have been out in stores for two months longer than BluRay movies, the fact that BR players are much more expensive than HD-DVD players, and the fact that the PS3 (the major component to BluRay's recent success) had been out for only four months before the cut-off date of that r
        • Except (of course) that at the begining of february [foxnews.com] it was reported that HD-DVD had 52% market share as compared to Blu-Ray's 48% ...

          The newer numbers demonstrate that Blu-Ray has taken the lead but HD-DVD is keeping up at a decent pace considering that it is not included in (approximately) 200,000 PS3 system that are sold in a month.
          • by Pluvius (734915)
            Except (of course) that at the begining of february it was reported that HD-DVD had 52% market share as compared to Blu-Ray's 48% ...

            That seems to me to be supporting my conclusion, not yours.

            Rob
            • I think I should restate ...

              Blu-Ray jumped from (essentially) 0% marketshare to nearly 50% market share after 2 months because of the release of the PS3, since then it has only gained a couple of percentage points of market share. What this means is that Blu-Ray and HD-DVD have sold at very similar rates to eachother in the past couple of months.
      • the result of this is that most players sold in 2008 or 2009 will likely be dual format players.
        Quite possibly. If that happens, though, I think the established market winner will be dual formats, and neither will die off. That's the best possible course of events, isn't it?
        • by Pluvius (734915)
          No, that's the worst possible course of events. Dual-format players cost more than single-format ones. They're probably also more technically complex, and therefore more likely to malfunction. You should definitely be rooting for someone to win this one, or at least to come to an agreement like what happened in the 56k modem war.

          You could mention the DVD±R war here, I suppose, but I would argue that the differences between those two formats aren't as great as those between BR and HD-DVD. Besides, D
  • "Our main concern is with the consumer and not a particular technology"

    I expect the MPAA Enforcement Squad to soon pay them a visit to correct this dangerous and subversive kind of slander.
    • "Our main concern is with the consumer and not a particular technology"

      I expect the MPAA Enforcement Squad to soon pay them a visit to correct this dangerous and subversive kind of slander.

      No kidding! Won't someone think of the corporations????
  • Seems to me like a common sense approach, similar to how nearly all the previously PS3 exclusive non first party developers have used the same common sense and decided to go cross platform and not artificially limit themselves to a platform that is nowhere near having a majority. Widening your audience can only have positive effects for sales.
  • .. is having multiple cuts of the same film on the same DVD, without branching and the annoying layer change pauses that entails. Take Dawn of the Dead. The ultimate edition is spread over four DVDs. Yet a single HD/BlueRay DVD could hold the movie and all the extras. That'd be my main incentive to buy a HD/BR player.
  • by Thalagyrt (851883) * on Friday April 13, 2007 @04:15PM (#18723791)
    Anyone else find the spokesman's name hilarious?

    Kwak Bumjoon!
    • Re: (Score:3, Funny)

      by kidcharles (908072)
      File that one under non-English names have unfortunate or funny connotations to English speakers. Another one of my favorites is a Native American tribe that runs a casino in Wisconsin:

      Ho Chunk [ho-chunknation.com]
    • by treeves (963993)
      Yep. I was looking for your comment, before I said the same thing.
    • you're certainly not alone. the moment i read that i sent the link to all my friends.
      I dont care who he is or what he has to say, but he's got the coolest motherfucking name ever.
  • moviebeam, vongo, etc..

    How long do you think the market for movies on physical discs will be around?

    The DVD (HD, Blu, or Pink with spots) is bound to share the same fate as the CD eventually.

    It doesn't help that a $70 upconverting DVD player makes enough improvement, that most casual viewers consider it "HD".

    The real question is, when am I going to be able to use (either) technology in my PC?

    I mean, reading/writing 25+ gig discs, *cheaply*?

    IMO that's the real format war. The marketplace has shown a remarka
    • by hexix (9514)

      The DVD (HD, Blu, or Pink with spots) is bound to share the same fate as the CD eventually.

      Did the CD just die and I missed the memo? Seems to me that buying music on CDs is still the best way due to the quality and compatibility.

      Compatibility is a huge problem. If I go buy or rent a DVD I can use it on any TV I have a dvd player on. I can also bring it over to a friend's house and play it on their TV. If I buy a movie off of iTunes or off of the Xbox Marketplace then I'm going to have a real bitch of a time bringing it over to a friend's place.

      There is still a pretty clear reason fo

    • I'd say that as long as we keep making entertainment content in larger file sizes than can be easily transmitted through the aether, yes, physical media will endure.

      and i would say that is a trend that will continue, based on the last 10 years.

      *shrug*
  • "Our main concern is with the consumer and not a particular technology," said Kwak.
    If this were a real philosphy instead of marketing speak, then this particular player wouldn't support HDCP [wikipedia.org].
    • by jjacobs2 (969071)
      If it didn't support HDCP then it wouldn't play 99+% of the discs on the market right now. There wouldn't be any point to even making it then. To get rid of HDCP the format will have to completely fail as CD's are on their way to do. Maybe if people are really happy with DVD's and the market share for HD discs is still less than 5% in five or ten years then DRM will truly be dead in the video market.
      • by cayenne8 (626475)
        "To get rid of HDCP the format will have to completely fail as CD's are on their way to do. "

        I don't forsee the demise of the CD as soon as some people seem to.

        Frankly, I won't be buying any music online till they can sell it to me in lossless formats without any DRM. Until then, the only way I can get music in a lossless format, is to buy the CD.

        Even with that, I'd like to back up my online purchase to a disc....not to mention, there are tons of car players out there that play CD's..not that many doing

      • If it didn't support HDCP then it wouldn't play 99+% of the discs on the market right now.

        How is that? Are you talking about the Image Constraint Token [wikipedia.org]?

        The way I understand it, the movie studios have "promised" not to use that against us for a few more years yet. Not that I believe that promise, but if any discs were already out that make use of it, there would have already been a huge outcry here on slashdot about it.

        The XBox 360 can play HD-DVD movies through the add-on drive, and it doesn't ev

        • by demon (1039)
          The Xbox360 (prior to the new Elite SKU) didn't have an HDMI port, so it only outputs in analog. Every other BluRay or HDDVD player of which I'm aware doesn't even bother with component out - it's HDMI or nothing, which means you have to suck at the HDCP teat as well. They're really trying to not give you an out on the whole HDCP thing - even though it's been a serious disaster, or at least a severe headache, for a lot of the (relatively small) slice of the people who've taken the plunge into either format.
  • I won't be getting a BluRay or HD-DVD player until they, or only one of them, becomes dominant over DVDs. Why waste the money now? This little feud will be over sometime and we'll move away from DVDs but until then I'll stick with my $20 DVD player that plays every movie currently on the market. I'll be the last to give up with my DVD player shouting Charleton Heston's famous words, "out of my cold dead hands."
  • "'Our main concern is with the consumer and not a particular technology,"

    Wow, so it's not going to have any DRM bullshit either? Oh, wait, they said consumer, not customer, so they're still treating us as automatons.
    • by maxume (22995)
      Hardware companies could give a shit about DRM, except that they don't think that the content sellers are going to release content without it. Since they see a market for including it, they do. If you don't like DRM, don't buy the freaken content.
  • Call me crazy, but does it strike anyone as a very interesting idea to produce the next Xbox360 addon as a combo HD-DVD/Blu-ray player? Think about it...they win either way. If people buy the device itself, they're in good shape and they're stealing the only real reason for the huge cost of the PS3 away from Sony. It's an incredible strategic move. Make it available, make it affordable (within reason; I'm aware of the expense of said technology), and you've stolen Sony's thunder. Just a thought.

    Bette
    • by Pluvius (734915)
      Call me crazy, but does it strike anyone as a very interesting idea to produce the next Xbox360 addon as a combo HD-DVD/Blu-ray player? Think about it...they win either way. If people buy the device itself, they're in good shape and they're stealing the only real reason for the huge cost of the PS3 away from Sony.

      Never mind the fact that Microsoft releasing a hybrid player would be like Sony doing the same thing--a 360 with a dual-player addon would cost more than a PS3, and it still wouldn't be able to pla
    • Call me crazy, but does it strike anyone as a very interesting idea to produce the next Xbox360 addon as a combo HD-DVD/Blu-ray player? Think about it...they win either way. If people buy the device itself, they're in good shape and they're stealing the only real reason for the huge cost of the PS3 away from Sony. It's an incredible strategic move.

      Except that BluRay includes Java support. I really think Microsoft wants that dead.
  • by tokki (604363)
    I was hopping Blu-Ray would win. 1080p native (instead of re-interlaced 1080i), more capacity, smaller wavelength. But Sony, being Sony, couldn't help but shoot itself in the foot.

    Hostile to porn? Game over man, game over. The entirety of technology is to create a more efficient distribution network for porn. Printing press, telephones, moving pictures, home video, CD ROM, and the greatest porn distribution system ever created: the Internets (who's impact won't be outdone until direct-to-brain technolo
    • Re: (Score:1, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward
      1080p v. 1080 is not a Blu-Ray v. HD-DVD issue. All HD-DVD media is encoded at 1080p. The first PLAYERS only OUTPUT 1080i. Hardware limitation - the info is there, and the newer players are 1080p.
  • I wish the movie industry, video industry, computer industry, and audio industry would all get together and realize that they are hurting themselves with this.

    I have been wanting to replace my TV for 2 years now. I haven't yet, because what I have will play my old dvds fine, and I'm not going to buy two different players, and maintain two different formats of nextgen dvds. Sure, the dual-format players resolve this to some degree, and it's about time this happened, but realistically...

    I'll tell you what I
    • by Pluvius (734915)
      I wish the movie industry, video industry, computer industry, and audio industry would all get together and realize that they are hurting themselves with this.

      It's basically the Prisoner's Dilemma. They'd all benefit if they worked together, but that raises the possibility of backstabbing, which would be worse than simply losing a format war. Therefore, they pre-emptively attack each other instead. Another thing to note is that not everyone is hurting themselves with this; whoever wins the format war wil
      • by dAzED1 (33635)
        any gain from that (winning the war) is offset, and potentially lost all together, by the lost revenues of the last couple years due to consumers not wanting to be in the middle of the format war.
        • by Pluvius (734915)
          I don't think consumers would currently be buying either format in force even if there was no war. Look at DVD, which was an example of a format based on consensus. It took several years for that to take off.

          Rob
  • by Demona (7994)
    Instead of taking one hour to boot up, this model will require two.

    Also, you will be unable to close the door to your entertainment center, unless you want it and everything around to melt.

  • Not complaining about the Slashdot article/summary, but the ITworld article linked to. Not that this surprises me, but I noticed that the article:
    1. specifically fails to mention with movie studios back which formats (because that would make Blu-Ray look better, since the vast majority of studios are backing Blu-Ray, and only one studio is exclusively backing HD-DVD)
    2. specifically fails to provide a comprehensive list of companies supporting Blu-Ray, but provides a comprehensive list of companies backing HD-D
  • ...now I can ***REALLY*** save some money by not buying a single combined player.

    Up until Samsung's announcement, I was planning to NOT buy two players - a HD-DVD one and a BluRay one.

  • Let's look at the companies that developed Blu-Ray and HD-DVD and are fighting a format war, trying to get their own format to win. Blu-Ray was developed by Sony. HD-DVD was developed by Toshiba and NEC. All three of these companies are Japanese.

    Now let's look at the companies that have announced they are going to be format-agnostic, sell dual-format players, and sidestep the format war. According to the summary, LG already introduced such a product, and Samsung has announced plans to release one as

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