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Avatar Blu-Ray DRM Issues 376

Posted by Soulskill
from the revolutionary-zero-d-technology dept.
geekd writes "Once again, DRM only hurts legit content purchasers: 'An unusual glitch has angered some Avatar Blu-ray owners. For these unlucky people, since the disc won't play on their Blu-ray players, their new Avatar DVD serves no real purpose other than to sit idly on the coffee table. ... It appears the main culprit concerning playback issues with Avatar is, ironically, the disc's DRM (digital rights management). ... Even with updated firmware, a lot of Blu-ray players weren't prepared for these security measures. Despite the security problems, bootleggers are having a field day. Pirated copies of Avatar, according to Los Angeles Times, were available as early as January.'" Reader Murpster adds that this problem isn't specific to the Blu-ray version: "Got a regular Avatar DVD and it won't play on either of my DVD players. It will play on one computer DVD drive, if I want to watch it on a 12-inch screen."
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Avatar Blu-Ray DRM Issues

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  • DRM (Score:4, Insightful)

    by girlintraining (1395911) on Friday April 30, 2010 @04:08PM (#32048716)

    Everytime they shoot themselves in the foot like this, public awareness and knowledge of DRM goes up. Even though the consumers are being hurt by this, it will make them realize that it's not always as easy as "buy, own, use however I want" anymore -- word of mouth is a powerful force in this industry.

    And right now, the word is... fail.

    • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

      not too many independents putting up $250M to make one piece of content though... so in the end, the only failure relative to the consumer was to himself. he didn't get the content he wanted.
      • Re:DRM (Score:5, Insightful)

        by c-reus (852386) on Friday April 30, 2010 @04:35PM (#32049194) Homepage

        Does spending a certain amount of money on a movie give you the right to sell a copy of the movie to anyone but only allow a subset of those people to view the movie they have bought?

        • Sadly (Score:3, Insightful)

          by Dishevel (1105119) *
          the answer seems to be yes.
    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by mwvdlee (775178)

      DRM is basically "Pay and pray".

    • Re:DRM (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward on Friday April 30, 2010 @04:27PM (#32049058)

      I'm increasingly convinced that "consumers" do not associate DRM problems with DRM itself -- rather, they view it as one manufacturer's problem, or even just a flaw in the DVD mastering. When the same DVD plays perfectly on another DVD player, that just "validates" that the DVD player was at fault, not the DRM.

      As such, wide-scale problems like this aren't viewed as *DRM problems*, just a DVD player problem.

      Terms like DRM are thrown around, but I don't see them sticking in the minds of most consumers. It's just another 3-letter-acronym that tech people like to use so much.

      • Re:DRM (Score:5, Insightful)

        by dnahelicase (1594971) on Friday April 30, 2010 @04:48PM (#32049368)

        I'm increasingly convinced that "consumers" do not associate DRM problems with DRM itself -- rather, they view it as one manufacturer's problem, or even just a flaw in the DVD mastering. When the same DVD plays perfectly on another DVD player, that just "validates" that the DVD player was at fault, not the DRM.

        As such, wide-scale problems like this aren't viewed as *DRM problems*, just a DVD player problem.

        Terms like DRM are thrown around, but I don't see them sticking in the minds of most consumers. It's just another 3-letter-acronym that tech people like to use so much.

        I disagree completely. DRM does stick in the mind of consumers in a case like this, and they do not blame the players, but do blame the disc.

        As soon as one disc doesn't work, they stick another disc in to see if it works. When the previously owned disc works just fine, and the new one does not, they blame the new disc. I imagine quite a few get upset, return the disc in exchange for another just like it. Then they get frustrated when two in a row don't work, call their IT Guy/Friend/Teenager and ask why. I/they explain DRM to them, how they must wait for an update to come out to play the disc, and nobody is happy.

        Even if they ask "do I need to buy a new player?" The best answer I have is "Who knows? A new one might have a better firmware, might not."

      • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

        by Machtyn (759119)
        To further this point. I've talked to "consumers" till I'm blue in the face, but each time I do, I have to repeat what I mean by DRM and Digital Rights Management. My wife finally understands it and usually gives me that "Oh he's going to rant on again to someone else" look when I start on about it. But the rest of my family and friends hardly care, even when they do get burned by it. Half of them are looking at Apple as a viable alternative to Microsoft! (Oh! what wretched state the industry would be i
        • Re: (Score:3, Funny)

          by Duradin (1261418)

          Is she giving you that look now? Does she have a "Oh now he's going to bash Apple for some unrelated reason" look?

        • Re: (Score:3, Funny)

          by Zemran (3101)

          till I'm blue in the face

          Did you audition for Avatar?

      • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

        by Joce640k (829181)

        Just call it "copy protection" when you talk to average Joes.

    • Re:DRM (Score:5, Funny)

      by Anonymous Coward on Friday April 30, 2010 @04:41PM (#32049274)
      You wouldn't steal a car. You wouldn't steal a handbag. You wouldn't steal a mobile phone. You wouldn't st... DISC ERROR.
      • Re:DRM (Score:5, Insightful)

        by jedidiah (1196) on Friday April 30, 2010 @05:14PM (#32049834) Homepage

        If I could magically cad-cam-3d-print-replicate a car I would without a second thought.

        So would every bible-thumping person on the planet.

        • Re:DRM (Score:5, Funny)

          by AmberBlackCat (829689) on Friday April 30, 2010 @06:11PM (#32050552)
          With the cost of ink, it would cost less to just buy a car.
    • Re:DRM (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Z00L00K (682162) on Friday April 30, 2010 @04:45PM (#32049330) Homepage

      Whatever this does - it will essentially make it a PR win for the downloadable non-DRM-infected versions.

      But of course - the movie industry will be VERY silent about problems caused by DRM.

      It only takes one way to crack an encryption and the content is out of the box - and every player does contain means to decode the encrypted content. As soon as somebody is able to go into it a non-DRM version of a movie will appear, and it will also miss the hated copyright warnings that is pestering us to death.

      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        by Pharmboy (216950)

        But of course - the movie industry will be VERY silent about problems caused by DRM.

        Don't underestimate them. They will likely find a way to blame pirates. "If the movie hadn't been pirated for months before it was released on DVD, then DRM wouldn't be needed and these problems could be avoided" . This is exactly the type of marketing doublespeak that I would expect, with the hope of deflecting the blame from their own incompetent asses.

        Didn't anyone actually try playing the master disks in a couple dif

    • Re:DRM (Score:4, Interesting)

      by Actually, I do RTFA (1058596) on Friday April 30, 2010 @04:49PM (#32049390)

      Everytime they shoot themselves in the foot like this, public awareness and knowledge of DRM goes up.

      I tend to think of it as lost revenue. Because of this issue, people could be forced to return the BD+. Then some percentage of them will download it as opposed to wait for the problem to get fixed.

      Hell, the people who ripped it and uploaded it may already returned it, claiming to have been affected (people who rip and upload movies not being well-known for honesty concerning disk purchases).

      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        by Imrik (148191)

        Except that the people who ripped it and uploaded it did so in January.

        • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

          by Jah-Wren Ryel (80510)

          Except that the people who ripped it and uploaded it did so in January.

          No they didn't. That part of the summary is misleading. The stuff available back then was either recorded off the screen with a video camera - some pirates use high-def cameras so those recordings can look pretty good - or it was a rip of a DVD released in region 5 where bootlegging has actually forced the studios to release barebones DVDs early and for relatively cheap (a couple of dollars which is still a lot more than the bootlegs but a lot cheaper than what they used to price at).

          Either way blurays we

    • Re:DRM (Score:5, Insightful)

      by v1 (525388) on Friday April 30, 2010 @05:13PM (#32049806) Homepage Journal

      I never went to the theaters, I don't need to be a part of that much of a circus. I had an (impressively good quality) screener a few days after it was out and that sold me on getting the bluray when it came out.

      I bought it the day it was released, but found that I was unable to feed it to my playstation because the BD+ DRM was too new for my ripper to support. The solution of course was to find the appropriate torrent and download the unprotected MKV file. Ahh 1080p on the 53" is nice. My laptop doesn't have the muscle to decode and scale down 1080p on the fly at that bitrate (the mkv is 19gb) so I transcoded it down to a more reasonable 720p so I can watch it on my computer when I feel like it.

      See what's wrong with all this, all you hollywood people? The only reason I am having anywhere near the experience I want with your product is because the pirates are delivering me a better product than you are. Figure it out. I just happen to be one of the people that supports you despite your insulting business methods. You have very little right to complain about the other % of us that just cut you completely out of the picture.

      Interestingly enough, I haven't even bothered to put the bluray in the PS3, so I don't even know if it will play properly. It was only out of its case long enough to rip (43gb?) to hard drive in a vane attempt to transcode. Nice touch including the DVD, and the coupon for a discount on a bluray player, interesting angle to get people to get a bluray player.

  • by happy_place (632005) on Friday April 30, 2010 @04:08PM (#32048722) Homepage
    One could argue that DRM actually fixed this movie. :)
    • by qortra (591818)
      It's a shame one can only achieve a maximum score of 5 for a post. That one deserves at least 10. You have made my day.
    • Like the plot was only thing in a moving picture.

      Not to mention that it wasn't the plot that sucked, but the cheesy lines full of clichés, the weak portrayal of groups of characters, and Sam Worthnothington.

      When you troll an otherwise good film, at least do it right.

    • by Chris Mattern (191822) on Friday April 30, 2010 @05:00PM (#32049600)

      Whatever can you mean? How could you not love "Dances with Smurfs"?

      • Re: (Score:3, Funny)

        by Scrameustache (459504)

        Whatever can you mean? How could you not love "Dances with Smurfs"?

        Stop trash talking Ferngully In Space. Sure, it was Pocahontas with Mechas, but hey! Everyone loves the last alien Samurai.

  • Don't buy blu-ray. (Score:4, Insightful)

    by FlyingBishop (1293238) on Friday April 30, 2010 @04:09PM (#32048738)

    It isn't worth the price premium when you can't backup and it won't play without more tools to prevent you from backing up or even watching it.

    • Re: (Score:2, Informative)

      by Schnoogs (1087081)

      Price premium = $2 more at Target.

      LOL!!!

      Nice try though!!! Keep playing!!!

      • That and the player itself. Not insignificant.

        • by b0bby (201198)

          My player was $99 (the same as my first DVD player) and it also does Netflix streaming. Maybe not insignificant, but pretty reasonable. I've found that I use the streaming way more than actual discs. I have had one disc (Ponyo) give me trouble due to firmware issues, which I ended up downloading & watching in Japanese with subtitles instead - good for the kids' reading!

    • by tagno25 (1518033)
      Price premium = $2 less at Walmart.
    • by jonbryce (703250) on Friday April 30, 2010 @04:28PM (#32049074) Homepage

      Actually the ripping tools work fine on it, and it the only way I could watch my legal shop-bought copy of Avatar was to rip it to disk and watch it from there, so they've failed completely.

      • by cgenman (325138) on Friday April 30, 2010 @05:01PM (#32049620) Homepage

        This is the thing we need to get through to the content producers.

        Once the movie or game has been ripped and put on a torrent site, the ONLY people who encounter DRM are your customers. It's vaguely like having a security checkpoint at a concert with no fences. All of the people who are legitimately standing in line for hours and giving money will be inconvenienced, and all of the people you're trying to keep out will just walk right in. By definition, you're only stopping legitimate customers to verify that they're legitimate customers. Or, in this case, absolutely everyone the DRM is catching and rejecting is by definition a legitimate customer. Otherwise, they wouldn't encounter the DRM, and they wouldn't be rejected.

    • I buy Blu-ray because I can rip the movies and transcode them. Including Avatar.

      Try that with streaming or other DRM-laden options.

      And the price premium is almost 0 for this movie. It was $19.99 at all major stores including Amazon, and you get a copy of the Blu-ray and the DVD for that price!

      For the record, I didn't buy this movie. But if I did want it, I wouldn't have hesitated at all.

  • by vm146j2 (233075) on Friday April 30, 2010 @04:09PM (#32048742)

    Because when only criminals can watch movies, then ... er ... all the children will have guns. Or something.

    • by Jeng (926980) on Friday April 30, 2010 @04:29PM (#32049108)

      When only criminals can watch movies then everyone will know how to hack their way into watching a movie they bought with their hard earned money.

      If DRM needs to be bypassed it will be bypassed.

      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        DRM will always need to be bypassed as long as it exist.

        The people responsible for the DRM are hoping that this need won't apply to the average consumer, who doesn't want to make backups, to utilize their fair use rights on the movie, or to play it on Linux. And while I feel bad for everyone that got fucked up by the DRM now, I'm happy that they failed to make it seemingly unobtrusive. If DRM issues were more widespread, the DRM would slowly die and stop breaking it for us, the minority who are crazy enough

  • Already cracked. (Score:5, Informative)

    by brunascle (994197) * on Friday April 30, 2010 @04:09PM (#32048756)
    The stable release of AnyDVD HD (6.6.3.4) doesnt support Avatar, but the beta version does ( http://forum.slysoft.com/showthread.php?t=40115 [slysoft.com] ). It took me longer to update the firmware on my bluray player than it took me to update AnyDVD HD. Though the actual ripping still takes about 4 hours...
  • by Anonymous Coward on Friday April 30, 2010 @04:10PM (#32048760)

    the main culprit concerning playback issues with Avatar is, ironically, the disc's DRM (digital rights management).

    What's ironic about that? If you had expanded the acronym correctly, you would probably understand that it's just consequential.

  • No matter (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Pojut (1027544) on Friday April 30, 2010 @04:10PM (#32048766) Homepage

    This was a bare-bones release anyway. I'm waiting for the double-dip release which will inevitably contain a metric assload of extras. I have no desire to watch the movie again (although I did enjoy it strictly from an entertainment point of view)...I do, however, have great interest in watching any making-of featurettes that may be included.

    DRM issues or no, I'm steering clear of this release.

    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      by tlhIngan (30335)

      This was a bare-bones release anyway. I'm waiting for the double-dip release which will inevitably contain a metric assload of extras. I have no desire to watch the movie again (although I did enjoy it strictly from an entertainment point of view)...I do, however, have great interest in watching any making-of featurettes that may be included.

      Yeah, I got the release and I'll probably buy the double/triple dip version when it comes out. I will admit though, that the mastering is quite good and the bitrate is

    • Re:No matter (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Blakey Rat (99501) on Friday April 30, 2010 @04:28PM (#32049082)

      I do, however, have great interest in watching any making-of featurettes that may be included.

      They did it on a computer.

      • by Pojut (1027544) on Friday April 30, 2010 @04:32PM (#32049162) Homepage

        LOL, that's pretty much what my fiancee said :-)

        "Why would I want to sit there for six hours watching overweight bearded guys talk about where on the screen they clicked with a mouse?"

        • Re:No matter (Score:4, Insightful)

          by Jerf (17166) on Friday April 30, 2010 @04:43PM (#32049314) Journal

          Seriously, though, modern "Making Ofs" are all the same.

          Whereas the late 70s and 80s are actually interesting, because they had to do things. The "Making Ofs" for Tron and Star Trek: The Motion Picture, regardless of your opinions on the movies themselves, are actually interesting because they faced challenges that normal people could understand and met them with answers normal people can understand.

          In fact, a really technical "making of" of Avatar might be really interesting to us, but because the "making of" will be targeted at people in general, it is unlikely to have more than a few seconds of really interesting technical content, because people in general do not understanding complex computer graphics issues. (Nor should they have to.) All they can say is "They made it with computers. Here, here's some shots of rotating computer models."

          Tron 2 and the latest Star Trek movie are, of course, "They made it on a computer."

      • Did they patent it yet then?

  • The DVD I bought (Score:3, Insightful)

    by netsavior (627338) on Friday April 30, 2010 @04:15PM (#32048842)
    has verbiage on the back that says "This disc is copy protected" Didn't stop a direct show based solution from ripping it (never does), It played fine on the portable DVD player, played fine on the $20 dvd player on the kid's TV, played fine on the computer.

    I still haven't bought in to blu-ray though so I can't speak to that.

    Also from the op... 12 inch screen... a 23 inch 1080p monitor is like 150 bucks, come on.
  • by Dan667 (564390) on Friday April 30, 2010 @04:18PM (#32048890)
    Too bad you don't have a choice to buy it. The movie company is treating you like a Criminal, making you sit through FBI warnings, and is providing a product that may or may not work compared to the pirate version, which is what most people want.
  • From TFA:

    In reality, the disc works fine; the problem stems from the Blu-ray players themselves. In order to run optimally, the firmware for these fancy Blu-ray machines needs to be updated regularly via a download from the Web. ...
    If a Blu-ray player owner doesn't have a home Internet connection, the chances are good the player's firmware will be out of date.

    Wow, this is cringe-worthy. I mean, Blu-ray quality is so awesome, it needs a connection to the internet! Did someone from Ubisoft work on the blu-ray spec, or was it the other way around?

    • by AndrewNeo (979708)

      Where on Earth (or even Pandora) does it say you need a constant internet connection? They were just implying it has to be downloaded regularly for updates, not constantly.

  • by Bearhouse (1034238) on Friday April 30, 2010 @04:18PM (#32048896)

    FTA:

    In reality, the disc works fine; the problem stems from the Blu-ray players themselves. In order to run optimally, the firmware for these fancy Blu-ray machines needs to be updated regularly via a download from the Web.

    Of course they need this, to try and avoid the problems with older DVD encryption that had to store the keys on the disk and the player.
    Hence easily broken.
    Still, it's a bit of stretch to think that everyone who has a Blueray DVD, (especially a stand-alone one), will be able to keep it updated via the tubes.
    As always, DRM punishes the honest customers, and is busted fast by the hackers: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AACS_encryption_key_controversy [wikipedia.org]

  • Yeah, I ran into issues. Played fine on my PS3, but didn't on my blu-ray equipped HTPC.

    Turns out it was BD+ - the Arcsoft folks issued a patch the next day and it worked perfectly.

    But those with older players also had BD+ issues and many a firmware update is reuqired to fix it.

    BD+... now why did we let Blu-Ray win again? HD-DVD had none of this crap... just the leaked AACS key.

    • Well, Blu-ray hasn't "won", it's just HD DVD already lost.

      I don't think BD can "win", as in become a successful format, while this kind of crap is going on. The studios supporting BD over HD DVD was a stunning set-back for high-definition video, but at the time too few people understood the issues with BD - most of us who pointed out BD's DRM was the height of stupidity were dismissed as only interested in issues ordinary consumers didn't care about (because ordinary consumers don't want a reliable playb

    • by Jeng (926980)

      Was the Laser Disk beaten by VHS?

      Sometimes failure is just failure.

  • Take them back (Score:5, Insightful)

    by bobjr94 (1120555) on Friday April 30, 2010 @04:20PM (#32048926) Homepage
    If you want the problem solved, take your copies back to best buy or walmart and exchange them 4 or 5 times. Tell them this wont play, it must be faulty. If that becomes so much of a problem with hundred of returns at each store, they will complain to the distributors about how many returns they are getting and how much it is costing them. If walmart is not happy, things will be changed.
  • by steveha (103154) on Friday April 30, 2010 @04:21PM (#32048940) Homepage

    When will the studios ever figure out that the DRM isn't stopping piracy at all, and only hurts the honest customers?

    It's a bitter irony that the pirates offer a better product: it will play in any player (no DRM), it probably doesn't force you to watch an "FBI warning", it probably doesn't have a commercial about how evil it is to pirate things, and it probably doesn't have endless trailers for other discs.

    And it seems like discs get more and more annoying over time. Now it's not just the FBI warning, but also a studio logo, a distributor logo, a warning that "if you listen to the commentary, the views expressed may not represent the official views of the movie studio", and then finally an annoying long intro sequence (that may contain spoilers) before the menu finally appears to allow you to actually play the movie. The trailers are usually skippable but all the rest are not! You have to put up with this stuff anytime you want to watch the movie! Again, I'm pretty sure that the pirates don't do all this stuff, making the pirated product better.

    Once anybody, anywhere in the world, has released an illegal copy of your content, it's all over. No amount of DRM that punishes the honest customers can get that content back once it's on the Internet. Why do they even try?

    steveha

  • by Anonymous Coward on Friday April 30, 2010 @04:21PM (#32048944)

    Due to restrictive policies put in place by the big evil corporation to restrict the power of people who own the material, I can't watch a movie about a big evil corporation who is restricting and stealing from a people who own the material?
    Wow. I think I figured out why the natives were blue.

    • by JavaBear (9872) *

      Oh, please mod parent up, he may be an AC, but he definitely have managed to nail down the irony of the whole farce.

  • Where are the class action law suits for this crap?!? Isn't it fraud to sell something that you know is broken? Essentially the movie industry selling a plastic and aluminum coaster and billing it as a full length feature film. The only way to make these idiots stop putting DRM on everything is to cause them serious financial pain when they do...

    If you own one of these discs call an attorney!

  • ironically (Score:5, Insightful)

    by cstdenis (1118589) on Friday April 30, 2010 @04:22PM (#32048966)

    "It appears the main culprit concerning playback issues with Avatar is, ironically, the disc's DRM"

    That word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      Quite right. I think the OP thinks that 'ironically' means 'predictably'.

    • I guess the irony is due to Avatar being an anti-stablishment movie, where a large corporation that is just worried about its profits try to screw people around. See, life imitates art.
    • Re: (Score:3, Funny)

      by smcn (87571)

      The Avatar DVD not playing because of DRM is very much like having ten thousand spoons when all you need is a knife.

  • I won't bother buying it then. I'll wait for it to come on TV. Which, extrapolating from the time it took to go from cinema to DVD, will be about three weeks.

  • Avatar plays on my 1996 (5?) Phillips-Magnavox DVD player. It also plays on our 3 year old Toshiba, 5 year old Sony, and 2 month old phillips, made in china, cheapo. It will be interesting to see why ppl are having issues with the DVD's.

    As to Blu-Ray, only total idiots pay the high prices and allow somebody else to kill your movies. The fact that you might upgrade your player and it PURPOSELY kills your encoding MAKES ZERO SENSE WHY ANYBODY WOULD BUY IT. And if you check the license, it is not only leg
  • Streaming HD video (Score:3, Interesting)

    by rennerik (1256370) on Friday April 30, 2010 @04:31PM (#32049150)
    Conceivably, Internet speeds will only increase in the next decade. I think 60-100 mbps average household connection by 2020 isn't that far-fetched (and it may, in fact, be significantly more). At that point, streaming HD video into homes would not be difficult at all, and I think more and more distribution houses are going to start doing just that.

    Case-in-point: DRM on streamed video can be implemented significantly more thoroughly than via physical medium. I wouldn't be surprised if Blu-Ray/DVD releases stopped being the norm and instead people bought streaming rights to a film from a co-op like Hulu, or straight from distributers like Universal/Paramount/etc. They can continue to charge ridiculous fees like $25-$30 per film, with extras, etc. And you get "lifetime" access (lifetime in quotes, of course, because it will never be like that if you never actually own a physical copy) for that price... or they can do things like "rent out" movies (which would put rental houses out of business; precisely what these publishers want, since because of the doctrine of first sale, they don't see any profit from rentals; this would eliminate that completely) for $5 a day or something. They can even sell the extra features separately for a few dollars a piece.

    And if they implement the DRM correctly, encrypt the stream itself, and black-box the decryption system (via a TPM-like chip or something along those lines), it's very possible that it will be *extremely difficult* to pirate future content such as movies. They can even somehow embed the user's ID into the stream (via watermark/stegonography; I'm not an expert here so bear with me), so if pirates did manage to grab and release the stream, somehow, they can track down the source and prosecute.

    Finally, this system would basically always work. Users wouldn't see the problems they're having right now with DRM, and, on top of that, they won't have a bunch of DVDs/Blu-Rays lying around that they'd have to find room for. Plus they get a searchable catalog and a bunch of other stuff that comes with having a purely digital library.

    Not saying it's a good thing, necessarily, just that it's probably inevitable.
  • Is it something specific to Windows or to Mac OS X or both, or some weird on-purpose bad titles/tracks numbering? Anyone has more info about the technical side of the problem of the DVD version? And is the problem only on region 1 DVDs?

  • I feel like I should have a standard "I told you so" post that I paste in for stories like this. Since I don't it's story time.

    Yesterday I went to store and tried to buy a copy of the Ironman DVD. They (multinational big box electronics retailer) were all out. WTF? An item with almost zero unit cost and you have none available. I went home.

    Based on the standard ~1.3GB of DVD rips it would have taken me less time to download it than to go to the store, 20 minute roundtrip plus browsing time. And I woul

  • Yup, I happily bought the Combo pack of the Blu-Ray and the DVD. Put the Blu-Ray in and it flat out would not work. It helpfully informed me that if it didn't work it was the fault of my Blu-Ray, which I bought to oh I don't know - PLAY BLU-RAY videos! Three days later, a USB Gigstick and two tedious updates later it finally got to work. A horrible horrible experience I didn't expect to have to go through and I should not have had to go through. Insane to make it harder for me as a customer to use the product. The DVD? Oh it plays alright, but it plays with english subtitles permanently on and there is nothing I can do to turn them off and they cover the bottom third of the screen. Absurd. Thank you for creating a unusable product FOX. Of course, there was no place to complain except at Amazon - I gave a bad review of the Blu-Ray and DVD and I complained to the website of my Blu-Ray player. DRM - Broken by design.

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