Anti-Piracy Lawyers Caught Pirating Each Other 131
An anonymous reader writes "We would like to think that the lawyers that are prosecuting alleged copyright infringers are practicing what they preach, but it looks like one of the most high profile firms involved in such cases are just as guilty of stealing others' work as those who are downloading illegal media."
No "creative value" though (Score:5, Insightful)
Since there is no creative value in the things they lift from each other, it is hard to argue they are "pirating" it. Can I steal a verb they use, and just call it "stealing"? :)
Also, the general population surely should be held to higher standards than the scum of the earth.
Re:No "creative value" though (Score:5, Funny)
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Yeah, but they call it "trademarks", which, I was told by a lawyer once, give you the rights without creativity by definition.
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... and those ending in pod.
*pod (Score:2)
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iNconceivable!
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Intel disagrees. Especially if the 'i' is dropped down below the other letters.
Numbers.
Re:No "creative value" though (Score:5, Funny)
There is only no creative value in their work if you can convince a judge, who once was a lawyer, that what lawyers do has no creative value.
I've seen some pretty creative lawyers in my day.
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I've seen some pretty creative lawyers in my day
But you're talking about the lawyer's definition of "creative", not the legal definition.
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No there is a great deal of creative value. Winning these types of cases can mean the difference of millions of dollars and these letters work to win such cases. That is a lot of value. It might not be artistic value but it is still value.
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Well, the question here is rather "did Devonport Lyons" copyright their cases and put a no-reproduction notice on them. Probably not...
That is still not common in the UK. In the USA quite a lot of the legal documents flying around have one nowdays and this is for a reason.
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Cool.
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since it has absolutely no creative value?
If you need someone to testify to that fact in court on your behalf, I'm available.
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Right, because public defenders and District Attorneys make six figure salaries all the time.
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They're not hypocrites, they're greedy, corrupt idiots. Obviously.
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Actually, the open software advocates you're referring to are consistent -- I don't think you'll hear any of them saying that someone should be able to incorporate downloaded MP3's into commercial products that are then resold to others. They are absolutely fine with open source software being downloaded and used for free, where they have problems is when the open source software is incorporated into other products and sold rather than given away for free. So there's no double standard.
Of course, many (most
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My point about most slash dot open source advocates(which I am one) is they will be the first to sick the lawyers on anyone they feel is not respecting the rights of the authors of said software. But they will be the first to disrespect the work of musicians, movie personnel, or game personnel by illegally downloading their content.
Don't you find it hypocritical that this thread like most threads do nothing but trash lawyers. But what profession do they automatically run to when they are pissed off over a
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Don't you find it hypocritical that this thread like most threads do nothing but trash lawyers. But what profession do they automatically run to when they are pissed off over a specific subject and THEIR reading of the law?
The hypocrisy is people like you who can't cope with the fact that tools can be used for both good and evil. The law is nothing but a tool, a very abstract tool but a tool nonetheless. You'd use a gun if somebody attacked your family with a gun, right?
People often trash lawyers because
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Don't you find it hypocritical that this thread like most threads do nothing but trash lawyers. But what profession do they automatically run to when they are pissed off over a specific subject and THEIR reading of the law?
Um, I find it predictable that they trash lawyers after they ran to them :P
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Don't you find it hypocritical that this thread like most threads do nothing but trash lawyers. But what profession do they automatically run to when they are pissed off over a specific subject and THEIR reading of the law?
No, not really. Because the organization that typically pursues violations of the GPL etc. in the US is the EFF and they have a very solid reputation for trying to solve matters in an amicable fashion first. Only when the other party categorically refuses to play ball do they start involv
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Slashdot is made up of thousands of people, some of whom have different opinions to others. The people who actively contribute to and defend Free Software are not necessarily the same people who torrent loads of music and movies. Sure, there are some people who do both, and a lot of the torrenters will make noise about Free Software, but that doesn't make me a hypocrite.
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Perhaps because the RIAA doesn't represent the interests of musicians, the MPAA doesn't represent the interests of movie personnel, and EA doesn't represent the interests of game personnel?
Just saying.
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As has been said before, there are varying opinions here. For example, I hold two registered copyrights I believe should have passed into the public domain already, while many here think perpetual GPL is a good thing. I don't -- copyright should be an enticement to create so that the creations enter the public domain. IMO tewnty years is long enough. I should be free to sell copies of the late Jimi Hendrix's work, let alone the late John Lee Hooker's, whose music was published before I (a geezer) was born.
Re:You Don't say (Score:4, Insightful)
Possibly some of us who frequent slashdot are hypocrites. But to label everyone who visits slashdot as a hypocrite is quite arrogant.
There are in fact quite a few different individuals who post here and people tend to post in articles that interest them. Some days it seems as though nearly every user hear uses nothing but Linux. Other days it seems as though everyone is talking about the benefits of Windows 7. You see? There is no one opinion here. And to claim that there should be is ridiculous.
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Possibly some of us who frequent slashdot are hypocrites. But to label everyone who visits slashdot as a hypocrite is quite arrogant.
Can't argue your point. You are quite correct. It just seems the hypocrites are the most vocal.
I stand corrected and apologize.
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It just seems the hypocrites are the most vocal.
If you think this is something peculiar to slashdot, I have news for you.
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Bravo! Slashdot would be a better place if humility was displayed more often than hypocricy.
"Illegal media"? (Score:5, Insightful)
What the hell is that? And how do you download any sort of media?
Re:"Illegal media"? (Score:5, Funny)
Well, I know CDs are a form of media, as are books and cassette tapes, so clearly "illegal media" must be some sort of way to record hot new blockbusters on disks made of a plutonium-cocaine alloy.
Re:"Illegal media"? (Score:4, Funny)
Plutonium-cocaine is a hell of a drug.
Re:"Illegal media"? (Score:5, Funny)
I hear the kids are saying it's pretty rad.
Re:"Illegal media"? (Score:5, Funny)
I hear the kids are saying it's pretty rad.
The kids are certainly curieous about it.
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I love my new REM cd. It's the Wake Up Bomb.
Pro-Bono (Score:2)
U2 might be able to help you dismantle that. :P
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No mod points - sorry
would someone kindly mod this "funny"?
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I don't think the parent meant to mod his own post "funny".
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no, I did not intend that at all,
But thanks....
And try the veal, I'll be here all week
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Plutonium-cocaine is a hell of a drug.
Don't you mean Plutonian Nyborg? [youtube.com]
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What the hell is that? And how do you download any sort of media?
"The medium is the message."
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Re:"Illegal media"? (Score:5, Funny)
What the hell is [Illegal media]? And how do you download any sort of media?
Well, according to dictionary.com, Media is the plural of medium, which is, as we all know, "a person through whom the spirits of the dead are alleged to be able to contact the living". Thus, "Illegal Media" are illegal shaman immigrants. I'm guessing "download" would be to make them carry lots of stuff? I guess making them work isn't that bad..? Unless they start channeling me-maw, then you're in for a world of tongue lashings.
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no that would be an "Upload," to "download" would be to relieve them of what they carry, obviously.
Actually, downloading would be giving them so much stuff that it reduces their carrying speed.
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What the hell is that? And how do you download any sort of media?
Netflix?
Ouroboros (Score:5, Funny)
We should encourage this: we can hope they'll fight each other to death, and we can disbar the survivors.
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Whoever loses, we win!
Re:Ouroboros (Score:5, Funny)
We should encourage this: we can hope they'll fight each other to death, and we can disbar the survivors.
And, for good measure, we can then rebar them.
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I'd rather they be fubar.
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I dunno. I rather fancy the idea of seeing scumbag lawyers (especially lobbyists, congressmen, senators, etc. - the whole lot of them) impaled on rebar. :)
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The truly scummy ones win my vote for Crowbar..
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'The first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers' - William Shakespeare, Henry VI, Act IV, Scene I
Some things never change.
Maybe (Score:1)
Article has problems with facts (Score:5, Informative)
The article presents the situation as Andrew Crossley being in conflict with ACS:Law over the use of templates. The problem with that is that Andrew Crossley is in fact the proprietor ("principal?" Don't know the correct term) of ACS:Law, so it would be difficult for ACS:Law to steal his work. To quote WikiP: "The main partner of the company, and its only registered solicitor is Andrew Crossley."
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It's all just a big misunderstanding. The person with the issue here is another (completely unrelated) man named Andrew, who crossly told them they were stealing from him.
They probably don't care. (Score:4, Insightful)
There is no hypocrisy. Their job is to work with their client and defend their IP. They are not required to be passionate nor they have to personalty believe in it, their job is to defend their clients.
Re:They probably don't care. (Score:5, Informative)
Actually, as officers of the court, their job also includes dissuading their client from suing if they don't have good cause (rather than wasting court resources and everyone's time and money). When the client DOES have good cause their job becomes vigorous representation (either as plaintiff or defendant).
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Well it still doesn't mean they have to reflect their own values. The law does state that piracy is bad/illegal, and if someone is doing such is breaking the law. Although they may not agree with the law their professional opinion could be that it would be an appropriate mater to bring to court.
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Yes, they are maintaining that the act of copying without permission rises to a level where the defendant should be smacked down in court for their wrongdoing. Certainly they make that claim while in court as the plaintiff. That is their official position. They then go on to do exactly what they just got finished claiming to be anything but innocent.
That's what hypocrisy IS, maintaining that others should behave in a particular way (with a claim of sincerity) and then behaving differently yourself. I add th
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Except lawyers, as officers of the court, are supposed to look at a client's case and make a first-look decision whether or not they should even bother bringing the case to court. Its not a matter of agreeing or disagreeing with the law, its a matter of "hundreds of these cases are either lost or simply settled out of court. Unless you have some rock-solid, smoking-gun evidence, I have to dissuade you from bringing this to court."
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Talk about conflict of interests.
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A really good lawyer finds a good cause in almost any situation.
Who cares if it is some obscure rule in a footnote, or some procedural glitch that the other party has overlooked.
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If it's an obscure footnote or a procedural glitch, nine times out of ten the judge (or jury if you're in one of those countries) will throw it out anyway
Why do you think laws like the infamous "everyone do archery practice" one from Britain are never enforced?
A good lawyer may use a loophole to force the other party to settle out of court, by scaring the shit out of them - they may even bring the matter to court as a scare tactic, but it's really not (or should not be) an exercise in sophistry...
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Obscure laws can be enforced if anyone wants to. The state doesn't enforce the rights belonging to the state (like the archery requirement and some stupid prohibitions), but if there is an obscure law that says that some people owe *me* money, then I can go to court and there is no way that the court can ignore the old, obscure law.
Case in point - there is an old, obscure law which states that owners of certain plots of land (that were associated with the church in ~1200's) are required to pay for repairs o
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This is a good point. When dealing with any attorney, remember that their first duty is not to their client, it is to the court. They all swear this when they pass the bar.
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Their job is to work with their client and defend their IP. They are not required to be passionate nor they have to personalty believe in it, their job is to defend their clients.
Let Me tell You A Story, Children: Once upon a time, "the law" and "lawyering" was all about a mysterious thing known as "justice".
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The FA is a joke! (Score:2, Informative)
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He claims that he acquired the rights to the work legitimately, but whether that's true or not isn't particularly clear. Also, I'm not sure of what degree of protection legal notices have in the UK and the US. I would think it might be reasonable to argue against copyrighting them should fall within
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"DRM"
Perfectly legitimate reason to pirate something. I certainly know that if I was looking forward to a game or something and they installed crippling DRM in it, I'd pirate it. It's certainly better than buying it, thereby rewarding them with your money.
"breaking the law"
Irrelevant. The law isn't always 'right'.
"thieving fools"
Alright. What is it that pirates are stealing? We know they aren't stealing the software itself, as they're just copying data, which doesn't deprive anyone of anything. So,what is i
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Alright. What is it that pirates are stealing? We know they aren't stealing the software itself, as they're just copying data, which doesn't deprive anyone of anything. So,what is it that they are 'stealing'?
Imaginary sales.
They are just proving their greatness (Score:2)
"Good artists copy, great artists steal"
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I see you've never seen his later works, which all used vaginas as models and weren't cubist. IMO there's nothing more beautiful or tasteful than a vagina.
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There's no telling where Eliot took that notion from, but they probably didn't come up with it either.
Wait for it... (Score:2)
Everyone does it.
A More Factually Correct Article (Score:5, Informative)
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"The article linked in the summary is riddled with factual inaccuracies."
Translation: "The article linked in the summary makes for interesting reading."
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Interesting, thanks for the link.
Maybe the best line in that article:
It turns out that the settlement letter business is terrible for the corporate image.
This may explain why there are so few law firms actually involved in the settlement business, which in a way reeks of easy money. All they have to do to get settlements, it seems, is sending out those letters. The law is pretty much on their side, and most people don't have the resources let alone the guts to take it to court.
However with this much public backlash I would hope it's a matter of time before no law firm dares to pick up the
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What they are doing is a variation on the old scam of bogus invoicing.
The law is pretty much on their side, and most people don't have the resources let alone the guts to take it to court.
IIRC ACS:Law hasn't actually won any any contested court case. The only chance of their "winning" is if the d
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Except the law is not on their side. This is from an article about this on Wired.com, though, so you're welcome to take it from whence it comes.
the basic gist of this is that in the UK, where these guys have been practicing, there is no statutory claim to damages, and the lawyers in the UK system in a case like this would usually be able to claim only as much as the retail price of one item in damages. That would mean 75p in the case of a single downloaded music track.
The law firms are sending letters of de
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That's because the Slashdot editors stopped torrenting it too soon. Those inaccuracies will disappear once more people start seeding the article overnight.
Why is anyone surprised? (Score:1, Informative)
Sometimes it's the defendant, sometimes its their own client, sometimes it's just JimBob-Taxpayer-via-the-government.
I'm not saying that lawyers/soliciters/etc do not understand the meaning of hings like honesty, integrity, common decency and justice - but all they *care about* is how to use those terms to their own benefit.
"Lawyering" as a business is the practice of justice-f
Shows what you know (Score:1, Insightful)
Most lawyers don't do this. You just notice the bad ones because if the highly-visible consequences of their actions.
I guarantee that if you ever find yourself wrongly accused, you will be very grateful that a lawyer is available to defend you.
Jason Scott (Score:2, Interesting)
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I just wanted to say thanks for pointing that video out to me. I had never heard of Jason Scott and I found his talk very interesting, even though it was over an hour long. I'll definitely be checking his site out: http://textfiles.com/ [textfiles.com].
absolutely no excuse for this (Score:2)
Reminds me of... (Score:2)
Said by a lawyer: "Not all lawyers are crooks, it is just the 99% that make the rest of us have a bad reputation."
Lose their license to practice (Score:1)
They should lose their license to practice as copyright lawyers altogether....sort of like a cop killing and trying to get away with it
UK Legal Point. (Score:2)
Unlike the US, in the UK, individual lawyers first duty is not to the Client, but to the Law Society (Guild in other words) so the point here is that there is a difference between Andrew Crossley, individual lawyer, and Andrew Crossley, company with a single partner / lawyer.
You get a lot of "odd" cases that this throws up, especially in Family Law where it is quite likely that a given Client has at some point instructed more than one Lawyer in more than one Case (eg two separate cases against the ex, or tw
Re:In other news... (Score:4, Insightful)
True, but copied fully in accord with the fair use doctrine.
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Like the link to the article? That's pretty good attribution.
Re:Noel Jerry (Score:5, Insightful)
I hate you and I hate your lame attempts at increasing your pagerank. You are the scum of the earth.
Also, your website looks terrible. When I opened it I assumed you linked to the wrong page and that was a domain filler. Really bad graphic design.
Now, kindly go away.
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You're forgetting that it's completely possible to steal money (the pirates money) that only exists in the future of an alternate dimension where the artist/business made more money. Also, if a sale could ever have occurred and something prevented it from happening, potential profit was stolen and whoever made this sale not happen should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law!
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The president doesn't want you to set that precedent