Slashdot is powered by your submissions, so send in your scoop

 



Forgot your password?
typodupeerror
×
Music Government The Courts United Kingdom

UK's Legalization of CD Ripping Is Unlawful, Court Rules 301

Last year the UK finally passed legislation to make the copying and ripping of CDs for personal use legal. After the legislation passed, several groups of rightsholders applied for a judicial review, arguing that the change would cause financial harm to them. (They suggested an alternative: taxing blank CDs and storage devices, sharing the resulting funds among rightsholders.) Now, the UK's High Court issued a ruling that agrees with them: "the decision to introduce section 28B [private copying] in the absence of a compensation mechanism is unlawful." The exceptions in place for private copying are now unlawful, and the UK government will need to amend the legislation if it is to have any meaningful effect.
This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted.

UK's Legalization of CD Ripping Is Unlawful, Court Rules

Comments Filter:
  • Why? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by ArcadeMan ( 2766669 ) on Friday June 19, 2015 @10:54AM (#49945917)

    Rightsholders keep pushing the fact that we're buying a personal use license to the media when we buy a CD/DVD/etc, so why is making a mere copy for personal use unlawful in any way?

    You can't have it both ways, greedy bastards.

    • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward

      Because they are quite literally dumb as hell

      This is an industry that tried to push media that self-destructed after a few uses:

      http://news.slashdot.org/story... [slashdot.org]

      Fuck 'em

      • Re:Why? (Score:5, Insightful)

        by Opportunist ( 166417 ) on Friday June 19, 2015 @11:06AM (#49946033)

        Why the fuck would I want to have something like that?

        Ok, have is not so bad, but pay for it? Clearly not. If that means I can't have it, so be it.

        Dear content industry,

        I survive without your content.
        Do you survive without my money?
        How long can you continue buying laws to further your failed existence?
        How long do you think you can you keep bullshitting people into thinking you're in any way relevant?
        Artists don't need you.
        Music lovers don't need you.
        Actually, nobody needs you.
        You're self serving.
        In a working capitalist world, you'd be doomed to cease to exist.

        Keep praying we never become a market driven economy.

        • Dear content industry,

          I survive without your content.

          Not very easily, at least if you live in a city. You need food to survive. If you buy this food at the grocery store, a percentage of what you pay goes toward royalties for playing music over the speaker system. If you instead grow all your own food in a victory garden, you may be committing a zoning infraction, as in the case of Julie Bass of Oak Park, Michigan [go.com].

          • Knowing our local stores, they already found a way to avoid paying those fees. I'd be very surprised if they paid a penny if they can at all avoid it.

    • Re:Why? (Score:5, Insightful)

      by kheldan ( 1460303 ) on Friday June 19, 2015 @10:58AM (#49945965) Journal
      It's 'unlawful' (haha) because they don't like it, they think they won't make as much profit because of it, that's why.

      Of course in reality they're squabbling over nothing at all, becuase nothing they do is going to stop people from ripping CDs anwyay. They may as well try to put a tax on people's ears, for all the good it'll do them.
    • Re:Why? (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Overzeetop ( 214511 ) on Friday June 19, 2015 @11:06AM (#49946039) Journal

      "You can't have it both ways, greedy bastards."

      You can if you have enough money to buy the legal process.

      • You can if you have enough money to buy the legal process.

        The entire point of those "processes" is to privitize gains and subsidize losses (sorry. privitise and subsidise for this story). Yeah, the people who run those rackets will tell you otherwise - that's why reason and evidence are the arms of a successful .*man.

      • You can if you have enough money to buy the legal process.

        Yes, but no matter how much money the music industry throws at the issue, they can't compel my cooperation. And that's the beauty of it.

        I started boycotting the music industry in the early 80's when music CDs started coming out. You could buy the same music, only for a much higher price than the vinyl alternative. I decided I was not going to participate in that racket, and haven't spent a penny on music since. How much money lobbying money was spent since that time is completely irrelevant (to me).

    • Re:Why? (Score:5, Insightful)

      by geekmux ( 1040042 ) on Friday June 19, 2015 @11:10AM (#49946069)

      Rightsholders keep pushing the fact that we're buying a personal use license to the media when we buy a CD/DVD/etc, so why is making a mere copy for personal use unlawful in any way?

      You can't have it both ways, greedy bastards.

      I'm more struggling with the fact that in the day and age of streaming music and humans walking around with devices that hold thousands of songs that physical media is still seen as this much of a issue.

      Shit, the industry itself will likely abandon the pressing of physical media within the next decade. What does it fucking matter?

      There's a simple solution. Artists, prepare to give away your music for free, or ask for a nominal DRM-free fee (ala Louis C.K. model) You and your promoters can and will still make plenty of money off other promotions and tours, and we can eliminate this bullshit argument of loss of revenue due to ripping.

      If they don't like this idea, then fuck 'em. They're not going to eliminate what they deem as illegal music distribution. Hell, they practically support it today with YouTube, which is where I go to listen to a song and download it for free. The posting of entire albums there makes me think they really don't care all that much, so have fun arguing over a tax on media that won't generate shit in return.

      • by Twinbee ( 767046 )
        Promotions and tours are great for songs with words and people who are prepared to get up on stage and move about in a funny way with a microphone to their month.

        You're forgetting the countless incredible pieces of music which is instrumental/synthesized only.
        • You're forgetting the countless incredible pieces of music which is instrumental/synthesized only.

          Which orchestras perform to live paying audiences.

        • You're forgetting the countless incredible pieces of music which is instrumental/synthesized only.

          ... which are sold to the DJs who perform it, at exorbitant prices, on Beatport, or sometimes even on vinyl still. (If they're smart, those same DJs are writing those purchases off as a business expense anyway. So don't weep for the DJs' wallets.) Hell... sometimes said producers themselves do go on tour. Above & Beyond played two sold-out nights in a row at the Bill Graham auditorium here in San Franc

      • Re:Why? (Score:4, Insightful)

        by rickb928 ( 945187 ) on Friday June 19, 2015 @12:50PM (#49946961) Homepage Journal

        Look at it this way:

        I can use Google Play for $9.99/month. If this price stays, I would spend as much on streaming as I did for my current CD collection in about 40 years.

        But will I be able to get the music I own now from Google Play, if I rely on their stream, in 40 years? Or even 10? 5?

        Because Google Play can only stream to me from their library the music they have rights to. The music THEY have rights to. Not mine. So it is not entirely impossible that the music you love won;t be available to you if you rely on streaming, because, gasp, it was never yours at all. Yes, they want to deliver what you want to listen to and be competitive. I'm pretty sure iTunes users wanted to play Beatles tunes for a very long time. How did that work out back then?

        I still buy music, much less than ever for lack of interest, but I see streaming in the long term as a potential loser.

    • Criminalize it! (Score:5, Interesting)

      by msauve ( 701917 ) on Friday June 19, 2015 @11:10AM (#49946077)
      OK, make it a crime, with a 1 pence fine for each track copied.
    • by tmosley ( 996283 )
      Fascists, like all socialists, want something for nothing, and are willing to pick everyone else's pockets to get it.

      This is straight up Corporatism right here.
    • Do not buy new CDs (Score:3, Interesting)

      by Anonymous Coward

      Buy used CDs only, and cleanly sidestep the greedy bastards. Support your favorite musicians by going to live performances instead.

      I've perfected a system for aquiring new music. First, keep a permanent list of artists/albums you are interested in. Any time you hear music that interests you, record it to the list. My current list has about 300 line items. I will probably never get to cross them all off the list in my lifetime, but the point is to have a ready list to guide your used CD purchases (never just

      • Support your favorite musicians by going to live performances instead.

        That might work in some countries. But in a large part of the industrialized English-speaking world, the drinking age is 21, and people who aren't old enough to drink are barred from even entering drinking establishments. What is a high school student or college underclassman supposed to do if his or her favorite musician plays only an age-restricted show within reasonable travel distance?

      • Support your favorite musicians by going to live performances instead.

        Musicians who are signed with a label rarely make much money off of a performance either. They get a small piece of ticket sales and maybe a small piece or no piece of merchandising. They usually don't get any part of concessions, although the promoter that places them there often gets a share of the concessions.
        If you go to see local bands, they will get a more reasonable percent of entry fees or tickets, and pretty much 100% of merchandise, minus costs for creating the merchandise.
        If you like record

    • Re:Why? (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Jawnn ( 445279 ) on Friday June 19, 2015 @11:55AM (#49946447)

      Rightsholders keep pushing the fact that we're buying a personal use license to the media when we buy a CD/DVD/etc, so why is making a mere copy for personal use unlawful in any way?

      You can't have it both ways, greedy bastards.

      Oh, yes we can, you little person you. We missed the boat completely when it came to digital media and lack totally the vision to come up with a business model that works in this new age, so we've paid good money, a buttload of it, to have the rules tilt things in our favor. So shut up and take what we so generously offer you. Regards, Your Friends at RIAA

    • by garry_g ( 106621 )

      As long as you can get a court to agree with you you can ...

      The paradox IMO is that rights-holders opposed things like streaming for so long, now all of a sudden they notice that instead of just selling a media once (as with DVDs and CDs), they can sell it to you over and over again, making more money in the long run, with far less production and distribution cost, plus - judging from reports - even lower compensation for the actual artists ... so, for companies like Sony and the likes, it's a win-win situa

  • Comments (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 19, 2015 @10:57AM (#49945947)

    wtf did the comments links go?

    • Re:Comments (Score:5, Informative)

      by Megane ( 129182 ) on Friday June 19, 2015 @12:13PM (#49946587)

      Are you talking about the "Read 151 replies" link where an immensely pointless and stupid "Share" button is now?

      How could you fail to miss that digit in the upper right corner of every front page article summary that rudely obscures part of the headline of the article? Yes, that is where it went. Or you could just click on the headline itself, which has worked since around the time that ENIAC was young.

    • Where the fuck did the comments go? It shows me FIVE fucking comments on an article, even if it says it has hundreds. Why the fuck do I need to click Load All Comments to get them to show up? A week ago, they simply loaded the first 150...

  • 1998 called (Score:4, Funny)

    by spatley ( 191233 ) <spatley@yahoo.com> on Friday June 19, 2015 @11:00AM (#49945971) Homepage

    It wants its controversy back.

  • CDs? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 19, 2015 @11:03AM (#49945999)

    CDs? Like people used to use in the latter part of the 1900s?

    Next they'll say I can't make my own buggy whips.

    • by Sloppy ( 14984 )

      I still buy CDs. They're (currently) the best way that I know of, to get music. Better ways are possible but aren't yet widespread.

      Tell ya what: go to some live music bars tonight, and if you're lucky, you might find a band you never heard of that you really like. Tell me how you listen to their music the next day. Assuming you succeed (it's reasonably likely but far from guaranteed) I bet you will come up with an inferior approach to buying their CD from them. But maybe not: go on, teach me about a be

      • by Destoo ( 530123 )

        What's wrong with Bandcamp?
        If the problem is that you want to get cash for your album, just print out business cards with QRCodes for one-time links to your album.

      • you might find a band you never heard of that you really like. Tell me how you listen to their music the next day.

        I usually download it from their web site. Sometimes I even download it *while they're playing* so I can listen on the way home.

    • Re:CDs? (Score:5, Insightful)

      by grimmjeeper ( 2301232 ) on Friday June 19, 2015 @11:22AM (#49946163) Homepage

      I buy CDs. I rip them so I can get a DRM free copy on my hard drive. I store the CD on a shelf as a backup. I don't give away or sell copies to anyone. I only use one copy at a time so I'm not violating any reasonable interpretation of fair use. I don't have to pay a subscription fee to anyone to listen to the music I have purchased. I don't have to rely on any cloud service to maintain a copy. I don't have to worry about having access to the music I have purchased (which is an issue when I'm in my Jeep in the mountains and I have spotty cell phone coverage).

      The artists and producers have made a reasonable profit in supplying the music to me. I am in control of how I access the music I paid for with no reliance on any 3rd party. Everybody wins.

      • by bazorg ( 911295 )

        I do the same, but buy them 2nd hand on eBay. I haven't sold the physical media after ripping the tracks to MP3, but really if I did it would be undetectable. What's the point of adding complexity to laws that are unenforceable?

  • Aresholes (Score:5, Interesting)

    by serviscope_minor ( 664417 ) on Friday June 19, 2015 @11:04AM (#49946019) Journal

    Bunck of fucking arseholes are trying to get a levy on blank hard drives.

    Well, I'm not paying for music twice. If I have to pay for music when I buy the hard drive, no bloody way I'm paying again.

    • by Bert64 ( 520050 )

      And this is even more ridiculous because most blank media, especially hard drives will never be used to store music...

  • by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 19, 2015 @11:05AM (#49946023)

    That means that with that license to use, in perpetuity, if the media becomes damaged, then the rights holder will ship out, for free, replacement media for said license.

    If they don't want to do that, then allowing license holders to make private backup copies of their licensed products is the only way to go.

    Perhaps a major class-action lawsuit against the RIAA/MPAA and every Recording and Movie studio should be made to get a final decision on whether it's the media we purchase or the license so that they can no longer flip-flop which it is based on how they want to limit our rights.

  • New law not legal? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by webwake ( 1557063 ) on Friday June 19, 2015 @11:06AM (#49946043)
    Isn't by definition a new law legal (assuming it isn't against a constitution or any higher law)? Is the only threshold that it would not cause financial harm if that is the case most laws should be illegal as they all cause financial harm to someone.
    • by garyok ( 218493 )

      Isn't by definition a new law legal (assuming it isn't against a constitution or any higher law)? Is the only threshold that it would not cause financial harm if that is the case most laws should be illegal as they all cause financial harm to someone.

      Because it violates the Treaty on the Functioning of Europe. Treaties take precedence over parliamentary laws. That's why they're so dangerous and shouldn't be negotiated in secret.

  • by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 19, 2015 @11:07AM (#49946045)

    They suggested an alternative: taxing blank CDs and storage devices, sharing the resulting funds among rightsholders

    My company buys thousands of hard drives used for data centre storage and DVDs for backups. Why the hell should I pay extra for them so that the money is sent to the entertainment industry when no data that goes on those drives will ever relate to them?

    • by sabbede ( 2678435 ) on Friday June 19, 2015 @11:26AM (#49946193)
      You absolutely shouldn't. It's total nonsense. It's like saying you should pay a tobacco tax when you purchase a lighter, because it could be used to light a cigarette.
    • Only for consumers (Score:5, Interesting)

      by xarragon ( 944172 ) on Friday June 19, 2015 @12:39PM (#49946847)
      We have a system like this in place in Sweden already. I personally hate it. The royalties are collected and distributed by three separate organizations; Copyswede for video and STIM (songwriter's guild) and SAMI (musician's guild) which then distributes the money is some secret way, based on how often it has been played in television, radio and discos/nightclubs. There has been pretty large complaints about this, as it only favors the large artists. The organizations also ignores more detailed play feedback, like from Spotify, according to an report in the Swedish Radio.

      Everyone who imports, manufactures or sells storage media (harddrives, optical media, game consoles, phones, mp3 players etc.) are required to pay these fees. This only applies when sold to consumers; corporate customers are exempt. What is weird is that game consoles, which are typically unable to even be used for copying, are covered by this. Every year the organizations keeps expanding the scope of the laws. There have been talks about a generic 'broadband tax' for years. In the current example, I belive that is the end goal; start with something people think is unimportant, like optical media in today's world. Get the legal boilerplate in place, then scope creep with the argument that it 'has to keep up with the advancing technology'.

      I hope this help you guys to understand the consequences of such a system. Sources:
      • https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Svenska_artisters_och_musikers_intresseorganisation (Swedish)
      • https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Svenska_Tons%C3%A4ttares_Internationella_Musikbyr%C3%A5 (Swedish)
      • https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyswede (Swedish)
    • You're asking the wrong question. The right question isn't:
      "Why should I pay.. will [never] relate to them?"
      or even "How do we fight this stupid decision?"

      The *right* question is: How do I get a business model where everybody is taxed to pay me?

      Note: this post assumes you aren't already a politician and that you don't have ethics.

  • by bra1n ( 3416909 ) on Friday June 19, 2015 @11:16AM (#49946119)
    because we can't rip her to archival media.
  • Lightbulbs! (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Gliscameria ( 2759171 ) on Friday June 19, 2015 @11:16AM (#49946123)
    Can we please get lightbulbs banned already, or at least tax them so that the candlemaking industry is compensated? Maybe horsebreeder and wagon makers should get a cut of car sales? Since when was it the government's job to protect corporate profits? I mean, guys, at least pretend...
  • by Snufu ( 1049644 ) on Friday June 19, 2015 @11:19AM (#49946143)

    "Instead of keeping copies free, they suggested that a tax should be applied to blank media including blank CDs, hard drives, memory sticks and other blank media. This money would then be shared among rightsholders, a mechanism already operating in other European countries."

    So in some European countries you already pay a royalty to music companies on all blank media regardless of the intended use? Does the Red Cross pay music company royalties on the blank SSDs in their new laptops? Do researchers at the large hadron collider pay a music royalty on the blank USB drives used to store their data? Do individuals pay music company royalties for the blank SD card used in their personal cameras?

    You guys still haven't figured out this taxation without representation thing.

    • Maybe I'm not too bright on the subject but I thought that "representation" bit was about having a voice in their governance. Not that it matters much though. Much like the British monarchy, U.S. citizen representation in government is largely ceremonial.
  • by 140Mandak262Jamuna ( 970587 ) on Friday June 19, 2015 @11:35AM (#49946283) Journal
    It all looks like some old re-run of Who's the Boss followed by Golden Girls. Who buys blank CDs to copy ripped music anyways? It is all being saved in hard disks and SDcards anyway. Blank DVDs and CDs have gone the way VHS cassettes and D-90 audio cassettes have gone. Create a tax, limit it to these media, make sure the tax is not extended to hard disks and SD cards, and make the ripping legal.
  • by gurps_npc ( 621217 ) on Friday June 19, 2015 @11:42AM (#49946333) Homepage
    A law can only be 'unlawful' if it violates another, stronger law.

    Not being British, I am not familiar with the higher law the court referenced.

    Can someone please explain which law guarantees the companies in question immunity from financial harm?

    Because there is no such law in the US - if Congress passed a law saying it was legal to rip CD's, they would have to argue that said law violates one of the amendments of the Constitution. They could also claim they were entitled to compensation via certain treaties, but that would not invalidate the original law, just declare that they are owed compensation.

    • by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 19, 2015 @12:33PM (#49946781)

      The stronger law in this case is other national law which codifies our commitment to following our EU treaty obligations.

      And in these cases, determining that a new law is "unlawful" - ie inconsistent with EU law - does not immediately remove said law or render it ineffective (although prosecutors may be wary of prosecuting based on it), but does oblige the government to modify the law *or otherwise* bring it in line with EU law within a reasonable timeframe.

      In this particular case the judge agreed with the government on most of the substantive points raised. Where they fell down is that during the legislative process they accepted in principle that any changes must be justified by empirical evidence of their likely effect to be consistent with the tests and conditions mandated by the EU law which allowed for those changes to be made in the first place (in particular, a condition that any exception either do no significant harm to copyright holders, *or* that a levy be introduced to compensate for that harm). The judge found that said evidence (of lack of harm) was lacking, and therefore it could not be said that the new law was consistent with treaty obligations. It could not be said that it was *inconsistent* either, but the EU law required a positive assurance.

      All that is now required is that the government make the new law consistent, and the judge suggested various options: they could repeal the law; they could introduce a levy; or they could find and supply new evidence that does convincingly show a lack of harm. That third option would render the law valid and require no additional changes to it.

  • Sorry I am not familiar with British law, though my grandma taught me the first line of "God save the King" in Tamil, curiously it was not any generic King, it was specifically King George the Fifth, Emperor of India when grandma went to school, probably the only thing she remembered from school. Poor old soul. But all the old novels used to talk about "appealing all the way to the Privy Council". Is this privy council above the high court? Is there an appeal winding its way? Who defended the rights of the
  • And a UK citizen could put that content on a CD.

    So I'd like a piece of that black CD tax you collect.

    thank you, please mail the check to the US Federal Reserve, I'll use it as a tax write off.

  • Comment removed based on user account deletion
  • (They suggested an alternative: taxing blank CDs and storage devices, sharing the resulting funds among rightsholders.)

    Canada tried this, and naturally, it didn't satiate the rightsholders' infinite greed for long. Don't do this, it's pointless.

  • So apparently they want a special tax just for them, to pay for the cost of "piracy." At the same time they want it to be completely illegal to format shift any of your personal music, or rip in any way. How they think this is logical I'll never know.

    How nice they think they can get the government to collect free money for them also. I'm not opposed to a blank media tax, but the money should stay in government coffers and never go to the pockets of a special interest group.

    But if indeed a blank media tax

  • Before any of this internet nonsense, I found an unlabeled cassette tape in a desk in my chem class in maybe 1985. It turned out to be a comp, that after playing it for friends, turned out to be mostly Black Flag, Dead Kennedys and Suicidal Tendencies. I proceeded to buy every album I could find, not only from those bands, but bands like them, like Hüsker Dü. Relevant to piracy in general, but not the the OP.

    Relevant to the OP, I own this album. I bought it. I am going to put it on my hard drive,

  • I'd be surprised if even one person had ever been prosecuted for ripping a CD for personal use. Commercial use/bootlegging/counterfeiting - of course. But I have never even heard or read of anyone suffering any penalty for ripping a CD for themselves. How would it be detected? Who would care? It's a civil matter so there is no involvement of the police or the state. How would the rights holder(s) ever detect the event of a copy being made, or be able to prove the provenance or a copy "discovered"?

    In s

  • Comment removed based on user account deletion
  • The real reason is that nobody (present company excluded) cares about these things. They just do what they want to do. And if they can't: all you get is *shrugs*. But then the "blokes" will have their ales and discuss "footy".

    It's about time politicians, at a sufficiently high level, start feeling that it'd be more to their advantage to listen to consumers, than it is to keep collecting from their "campaign-donating", "wining-and-dining", "meeting-and-greeting" corporate media-industry lobbyists.

Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes, and not rather a new wearer of clothes. -- Henry David Thoreau

Working...