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Before the New Version, Let's Revisit 1984's Dune (arstechnica.com) 201

Thelasko shares a report from Ars Technica, written by Peter Opaskar: Frank Herbert's 1965 sci-fi novel Dune gets a new film adaptation -- this one helmed by Denis Villeneuve (Arrival, Blade Runner 2049) -- later this month. But before Ars Technica reviews the movie, there's the matter of its predecessor: 1984's Dune, made by a then up-and-coming filmmaker named David Lynch. Detractors call Lynch's saga -- a tale of two noble space families 8,000 years in the future, fighting over the most valuable resource in the universe amidst sandworms the size of aircraft carriers -- incomprehensible, stilted, and ridiculous. It lost piles of money. Yet fans, especially in recent years, have reclaimed Lynch's film as a magnificent folly, a work of holy, glorious madness.

So which group am I in? Both. Am I about to describe Dune as "so bad it's good"? No, that's a loser take for cowards. I once half-heard a radio interview with someone speculating that the then-current artistic moment was not "so bad it's good," and it wasn't "ironic" either -- it was actually "awesome." (I didn't catch who he was, so if any of this sounds familiar, hit me up in the comments.) Art can speak to you while at the same time being absurd. The relatable can sometimes be reached only by going through the ridiculous. The two can be inseparable, like the gravitational pull between a gas giant and its moon -- or Riggs and Murtaugh.

The example the radio interviewee gave was of Evel Knievel, the '70s daredevil who wore a cape and jumped dirt bikes over rows of buses. Absurd? Heavens, yes. A feat of motorcycling and physicality? Absolutely. But beyond that, we can relate to Knievel's need to achieve transcendence at such a, shall we say, niche skill. We might also marvel at our own ability to be impressed by something that should be objectively useless but is instead actually awesome. A more contemporary example might be Tenet. It's a relentless international thriller about fate and climate change and the need for good people to hold evil at bay. But it's also a "dudes rock!" bromance between Two Cool Guys in Suits spouting sci-fi mumbo-jumbo. It can't be one without the other.
"I have faith in Denis Villeneuve and his new version of Dune starring Timothee Chalamet," says Opaskar. "But it will probably be a normal movie for normal people, in which characters with recognizable emotions talk in a recognizable way and move through a plot we understand to achieve clearly defined goals. Which is all fine and good, but how likely is it to inspire sick beats for '90s kids doing ecstasy?"
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Before the New Version, Let's Revisit 1984's Dune

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  • Nope. (Score:2, Insightful)

    by msauve ( 701917 )
    Lynch's Dune just plain sucked.
    • Re:Nope. (Score:4, Insightful)

      by Albinoman ( 584294 ) on Wednesday October 20, 2021 @03:33AM (#61909195)
      Its stupidity can be summed up in two words: weirding modules. I like the SciFi channel version. it's fairly faithful to the books.
      • Re: Nope. (Score:5, Funny)

        by jddj ( 1085169 ) on Wednesday October 20, 2021 @07:13AM (#61909521) Journal

        Mod parent up.

        WTF was THAT stupid idea about?

        Look, you've got Patrick Stewart in there, AND Linda Hunt (Mapes), but they simply aren't enough to polish this turd to a shine.

        Sorry, Kyle Maclachlan trying to play a 15 year old Paul Atredies, Sting in Black Eagle fighting briefs, and a bunch of guys who are supposed to be riding a giant sandworm looking like they're rocking back and forth on styrofoam surfboards.

        No.

        Do yourself a favor and don't see this. Do everyone else a favor and snap a blu-ray or DVD of it in two.

        • I thought that was one of the worst casting decisions in history.

          I like Patrick Stewart as an actor, but he was about as wrong a Gurney Halleck as possible (and that includes casting a five year old girl for the part).

          https://dune.fandom.com/wiki/Gurney_Halleck

          • Wasn't thinking about it much more deeply than "he makes anything he's in better".

            Yeah, not the best, but Hallek was supposed to be redoubtable and a mentor. Stewart at least has the mentor thing down.

            Part maybe needed somebody beefier.

            • Again, I like Stewart as an actor and he's surprised me in a number of roles where he was playing against type (ie "Green room") but trying to play Gurney Halleck was just wrong. It wasn't the physical attributes it was that he just can't play "jolly" - something that I always image Halleck to be except when he needs to be in action and then the character becomes a remorseless killing machine.

      • Re:Nope. (Score:4, Insightful)

        by MightyMartian ( 840721 ) on Wednesday October 20, 2021 @07:37AM (#61909571) Journal

        Lynch got the atmosphere of the novel right, but the story was incoherent. The SciFi version got the story right, but the atmosphere was all wrong.

        • by Geoffrey.landis ( 926948 ) on Wednesday October 20, 2021 @07:51AM (#61909587) Homepage

          Lynch got the atmosphere of the novel right, but the story was incoherent. The SciFi version got the story right, but the atmosphere was all wrong.

          That's a good quick assessment.

          This is the part where everybody over 50 chimes in with their experiences seeing the Lynch Dune movie. I went in to the movie with absolutely zero expectations-- I had thought that the book was unfilmable (with the technology of 1984)-- and so I was somewhat favorably impressed with what Lynch got right. My thinking at the time was that anybody who hadn't read the book would have found it incomprehensible; Lynch threw in brief moments with a lot of key characters from the book just to give them an appearance, but not enough to really make any sense.

          I was pissed, though, that the ornithopters weren't actually ornithopters, but generic SF issue flying-by-magic machines.

          Sorry, Kyle Maclachlan trying to play a 15 year old Paul Atredies,

          Agree there. Paul, for the time frame of the film, was a skinny kid out of his element. Not a 20-some odd self-assured adult with movie-star looks.

          Sting in Black Eagle fighting briefs,

          Disagree there; I though Sting nailed the part of Feyd Ruatha. He's the bad boy, but he's also Paul's mirror, the way Paul could have been in other circumstances; I think he captured the duality of the role, despite only minimal actual screen time. And that surprised me completely; I hadn't expected much because I'd assumed Sting had been cast entirely for his celebrity status

          and a bunch of guys who are supposed to be riding a giant sandworm looking like they're rocking back and forth on styrofoam surfboards.

          The tech of the time. I actually thought the sandworms were well done.

        • Nailed it.

          As somebody that basically worshipped the Dune books as a kid, that movie gave me a glimpse of what the universe would actually look like. Even if the plot was silly, stupid and incoherent at times. The characters felt lived in, and the atmosphere was beautifully choreographed.

          I really dig the scifi miniseries as well, but for completely different reasons. It was too light and airy in spirit, but they did keep the plot close enough to the books to be enjoyable for what it is.

          I'm hoping this new

    • by ShanghaiBill ( 739463 ) on Wednesday October 20, 2021 @03:34AM (#61909197)

      Lynch's Dune just plain sucked.

      I didn't think it was too bad, but I already knew the story. I watched it with others who had not read the book, and they all hated it. Without reading the book, the movie made no sense at all.

      • I didn't read the book but still looked it. It was weird and a bit confusing, but so what?

        I also liked the telefilms from the 2000s (I think).

      • Exact same experience here. I LOVED the books in high school (my alias has always been 'TheIxian' based on the planet of Ix in the books).

        I thought the movie was pretty good. I had a problem with the weirding modules, just like everyone else. I also scoffed at a few of the other liberties taken (like Paul's water of life triumph which definitely was not exultant in the book). But, overall, I though the tone and aesthetic of the movie really matched my imagination.

      • And having read the book it was an incoherently padded movie putting focus where it shouldn't and rushing the 3rd act to the point of absurdity. I don't understand how anyone could defend this movie much less someone who read the book and understands that lynch fucked the universe in the last scene by killing all the worms. (No, rain is not a good thing, nor what people were hoping the Messiah would bring.) The movie makes no sense regardless of how many times you read the book. The new movie is far more fa

    • Yup, can't hold a candle to Jodorowsky's masterpiece. In fact with that definitive version in existence I don't know why they bother to keep remaking it over and over. You'd think there would be at least one other SF book they could turn into a movie out there somewhere.
      • by Tailhook ( 98486 )

        I don't know why they bother to keep remaking it over and over

        Because whom ever finally gets this right will see billions in revenue. Tolkien money. That's why.

      • Supposedly Ringworld will be a series on amazon prime as soon as 2022. I hope it's well received, enough that (especially if Dune did well too) it will open up a lot of exploration of Niven and others. It baffles me that Niven's known space universe has >25 books, we've got the technology now to do great Kzin in movies, and nobody's really been able to convince the studios that there's anything good enough to bother making a movie with yet. I mean, you think the box office receipts for Marvel movies (spe

        • Actually I think a lot of Pournelle & Stirling's stuff could be made into a GoT level series

          I wonder... the problem with starting with a SF-based story is that it guarantees you a fixed following of SF fans but also rules out a large audience who won't watch it because they don't do SF. GoT worked because it appealed to a large user base, e.g. my neighbours who don't otherwise venture much beyond daytime soaps and cooking shows were huge GoT fans, but they wouldn't watch anything SF because it's not their thing. So I wonder if the traditional studios who are only chasing the next cash cow would

          • GoT was popular because of gratuitous sex and violence. A Ring World series could work because, if they follow the perviness of the later books, it'll be a smash.

        • It's funny you should bring up Bay. Re-watching Lynch's Dune reminded me of Bay's habit of just throwing a bunch of unlinked action scenes together.
        • "by bookwormT3 ( 8067412 ) Alter Relationship on Wednesday October 20, 2021 @02:24AM"

          "Asimov's Foundation is supposedly going to be made,"

          What, you wrote this in 2020 and the cron job just now ran?

        • by Mitreya ( 579078 )

          Asimov's Foundation is supposedly going to be made, but that's a bit more brainy.

          Apple's Foundation is a horrible abomination that left all of the brains and all of the story behind in the books.
          Salvor Hardin, for example, is now a kick-ass young female ranger and a head of security (she is also a "deviation" allowing her to go where others physically cannot). So she doesn't have to rely on her brains.

      • >>Jodorowsky's masterpiece

        Everything I've ever read makes it sound amazing, got anything with audio or visual or documentary ? thank you

        • Google "Jodorowsky's Dune" for the docco. Here's the trailer for it [youtube.com].
          • Thank you, I will look at it shortly :)

          • ordered it,
            I happen to know some of those graphics, they were in some books I had when I was younger.

            • Yeah, it was the first time Giger did conceptual artwork for a film, before he went on to do Alien. If you look at who was involved, Jodorowski managed to get pretty much everyone who was around at the time that you'd want involved in a project like this signed up. There'll never be another chance to do something like this again...
      • by Sique ( 173459 )
        There is no such thing as a definitive version. There is a version you like most, but your mileage may vary. And even then, why not try to do your own version, just because another version does exist? Maybe there is one aspect you get right in a manner no one else has before. Maybe you learn something by trying and failing, which helps you to complete another work you wouldn't have managed otherwise. And maybe, you and your team just have a really good time while doing your own version of Dune.

        Why not att

      • Well, they are working hard to make Foundation the failed experience that will put off another generation of readers.

        • by Mitreya ( 579078 )

          they are working hard to make Foundation the failed experience that will put off another generation of readers.

          They are working to make Foundation a combination of Game of Thrones and Star Wars (the GoT part they acknowledged outloud). It may be an ok show for anyone who hasn't read the books, I can't really tell.
          I wonder why they couldn't just make something original rather than desecrating Asimov's name. The fans of Foundation books are not the people they want to bring in through name recognition.

    • You are misreading Lynch's Dune. It wasn't a story about people on a sand planet fighting for resources. It was an art piece. The costumes, the ships, the whole feel of the movie was an experience. The story was about 30% of what made that version special. Just like if Jodorowsky had gotten to film his opus about Dune, he never even read the books! But a lot of people would still like to see the acid trip he would have filmed though.
      • A Fart piece, more like.

        Sure, make Baron Harkkonen terribly ugly, instead of actually showing us that he's evil.

        Might as well put a black cowboy hat on him and leave it at that.

        No. Avoid.

    • I watch the first part of the 2 part series of Dune 2021, Then I saw 1984's Dune.

      In reference to 84's, you it might have sucked. For me, it was the beginning of good science fiction on in the movies, I was in high school when it came out. and it was geeky enough to make itself amazing.

      And that's the problem, it's a perspective thing.
      I still like it, and when I watch it, I won't use a modern eye, I'll transport myself back to then, and enjoy it from that prospective. if I use a modern eye, I can see all the

    • by Megane ( 129182 )
      It was sufficiently confusing that I remember they made up notepads of cheat sheets to hand out to viewers.
    • Lynch's Dune just plain sucked.

      So did the book it's based on.

  • I saw the new version in the cinema a month ago. Is complete obliviousness to the passage of time the latest affliction to beset the "editors"?

    • by hey00 ( 5046921 ) on Wednesday October 20, 2021 @03:36AM (#61909199)

      Apparently, the film will only be released in the US and Canada on 22 of October.

      I was confused too at first, since it's been released for more than a month here.

      • also slashdot wasn't exactly quick with the post about the article

      • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

        It leaked out on BitTorrent even before any of the official release dates.

        It only covers the first half of the book too, gives it more of a TV mini-series feel because the ending is clearly just setting up the next episode where there will be a satisfying pay-off. Apparently they haven't even green-lit the sequel yet.

      • by RobinH ( 124750 )
        Yes, it has a weird release schedule. If you've been following the news surrounding the studio... it's weird. So it seems like the studio is really scared of this movie. The hollywood press has been hounding them because to the people who don't know the story, it seems like they're releasing a "white savior" movie in 2021 and the press is all over them about it. Of course, Dune is the antithesis of that story, but the press can't do their homework. In fact Herbert once said Dune was a warning against f
  • It's Decent. (Score:4, Insightful)

    by IdanceNmyCar ( 7335658 ) on Wednesday October 20, 2021 @03:23AM (#61909183)

    These kind of films grow on you. I have seen the mini-series and the 1984 version. They all have certain advantages. The new film seems to follow similar dialog to both while also changing it a bit. You will likely recall the original dialog watching the new one which is an interesting feeling. There are scenes and concepts they didn't touch in the new film which are a bit irritating but overall the cinematography is the best yet and the actors seem fairly well for the roles with a few exceptions. It's a good interpretation, now to wait for the next parts...

    • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

      The new one was okay. Nothing really stood out from it, and I think that was its biggest flaw. It just didn't feel grandiose. There was little sense of scale, I think mostly due to the camerawork. Events that were supposed to be huge battles with large armies seemed more like a small group of personal guards.

  • Picard (Score:4, Interesting)

    by bookwormT3 ( 8067412 ) on Wednesday October 20, 2021 @03:40AM (#61909211)

    I'm just glad Jean-Luc was able to make a new life for himself in starfleet.

    to be serious, I only thought the worm-riding scenes were actually stupidly done, the movie overall was really geeky but I never understood all the hate people had for it. Other than maybe if you didn't already know the story you really needed to pay attention to the first two minutes / not arrive late, because there's a lot of background in the first two minutes.

    And the hate doesn't even seem to be directed at the movie length, because I could understand if someone blamed a dislike of the movie over it being trimmed down to almost 2 hours and how they possibly think the movie suffered as a result. I mean, I'm not comparing it to LOTR, but just imagine how much less people would like the LOTR trilogy if it were like 3 hours or so instead of like 9 hours or whatever it was (I forget how long the non-extended version was). But nope, nobody seems to say anything like "it could have been good but it was just too short to possibly be good" or anything, they just say stuff like it just plain sucked.

    • Re:Picard (Score:4, Interesting)

      by serviscope_minor ( 664417 ) on Wednesday October 20, 2021 @04:31AM (#61909291) Journal

      I'm just glad Jean-Luc was able to make a new life for himself in starfleet.

      Minus the pug though. Nothing beats seeing him charge into battle with a big gun and a pug under one arm.

      Nothing except the cat/rat.

      Why is there a cat taped to a rat? Why does no one mention it? It is never referred to and never brought up again. Why WHY WHHYY IS THERE A CAT TAPED TO A RAT??

    • I mean, I'm not comparing it to LOTR, but just imagine how much less people would like the LOTR trilogy if it were like 3 hours or so instead of like 9 hours or whatever it was (I forget how long the non-extended version was).

      You know, I’m a huge Tolkien fan, but - I really didn’t like those movies. I sort of grok why Jackson felt he couldn’t just follow the books but whenever he diverged from the books, the characters got really shallow and stereotypical.

      • Unfortunately, Tolkien characters are shallow and one-dimensional in the books too. Any depth is left up to the imagination of the reader.

  • by jandoe ( 6400032 ) on Wednesday October 20, 2021 @03:43AM (#61909217)

    The 1984 version is not great but it's also not bad. The main argument against it I've seen is that it's hard to follow. Really? It starts with a narrated explainer and has a scene where the whole plot is laid out clearly during the first 20 minutes. How is that hard to follow? Of course looking back at a film from the 80s the aesthetics look weird. Same with lot's of acting and other choices. Is it weirder then Start Wars? I don't think so. IMHO it's also quite good at taking the important parts of the story and leaving out the rest so it works as a adaptation.

    • If your film needs narration to explain the plot to the audience (Blade Runner, Apocalypse Now), you're gonna have a bad time.
      • by Megane ( 129182 )
        It didn't just need narration, they gave out cheat sheets in the theaters. [giantfreakinrobot.com]
        • From the images in that article it looks like what they're calling a "cheat sheet" is just a copy of the glossary at the end of the original book. Not really necessary, just something the author included to give the novel additional depth.

        • That's bizarre... every single reference in the cheat sheet is in the first ~30 minutes of the movie. Like, spelled out.

      • by syn3rg ( 530741 )
        IMAO, I thought that the voice-over narration fit in with the film noir feel of the theatrical release, and Ford's intentionally flat delivery served to add to the questions about Deckard's humanity.
    • Agreed, itâ(TM)s a victim of itâ(TM)s time, and to do this movie right, you would need at least three 2 hour movies. It would be much better as a series like SF channel did, but with a bigger budget. Special effects have come a long way since 84, as has directing styles.
      You cannot look back at movies that tried to be ahead of their time and scorn them, they tried, and had some success, but get let down by technology or acting styles.
      I will mention one movie that has grown on me over the years even

    • I don't hate it, but watching it again the other day made me realize just how disjointed it is. Lots of short scenes that aren't properly linked, which is bad storytelling and bad filmmaking.
    • Really? It starts with a narrated explainer

      Ah yes, narration. The hallmark of all great storytelling. To be honest the narration both at the start and the narration from the inner monologues were among the worst parts of the film. Really how not to make a compelling movie 101 kind of stuff.

      Also people praising the importance of the story should focus on the significance of it raining on Dune at the end.

  • When your mouth just hangs open in astonishment at the audacity and surrealism of today's art...

    How is that not awesome?

    Maybe I'm old.

    --
    Don't even bother.

    • But for the record (if there is such a thing), all the sandworms (the size of aircraft carriers) would die if it started raining, as it did at the end of Lynch's Dune.

      --
      Gotcha.

  • ...he was supposed to put out an even more ludicrous version of Dune. They even made a documentary about it some years ago

    • by Rosco P. Coltrane ( 209368 ) on Wednesday October 20, 2021 @05:46AM (#61909405)

      I love Jodorowski as much as the next guy. But can we please stop mentioning his version of Dune that he was supposed to make that he never made because it required a ludicrous budget?

      Even I can write a script for the greatest movie of all time, and even have someone make a documentary on what a shame it is that I was never able to make it. But ultimately I didn't make it did I? So my ultimate great movie is a complete nonevent that doesn't count.

  • by Rosco P. Coltrane ( 209368 ) on Wednesday October 20, 2021 @05:28AM (#61909371)

    and it sucked.

    I mean it was a good effort: Villeneuve didn't fall into the trap of making it a stupid Marvel-style action movie, and some of the stuff he came up with are truly good (like the firefly helicopter things). But the rest was awful. The kid playing Paul Atreides is the blandest actor I've seen in a long time. The guy playing Duke Leto, Oscar Isaac, has "shitty Star Wars actor" permanently tattooed on his face. Lady Jessica looks like she's having particularly painful periods from start to finish. Javier Bardem's face overdoes it as Stilgar, while his otherwise great acting skills seem to be on pause in that movie.

    And on and on.

    It's not truly awful, but it's bad enough that I still prefer Lynch's version - and that's saying something, because it was kind of an abortion.

    To Villeneuve's credit, it was a tough nut to crack. Still, he really pulled it off with Bladerunner 2049, to my utter amazement and enjoyment, but missed the mark quite badly with Dune.

    • by pjt33 ( 739471 )

      The ornithopters are in the books. Villeneuve rendered them nicely, but didn't come up with them.

      I thought it was a decent attempt, but inevitably there wasn't time to do it right and so some things didn't make sense because key context was missed. (Spoiler alert for those who haven't seen it!) In the books, the Atreides deduce from context that Liet is a Fremen god, and when Kyne takes Paul and Jessica into the ecological station and Paul asks "Who are you to the Fremen?" it's because one of them addressed

  • It does capture the totalitarian vibe of the Dune universe. David Lynchs weirdness together with H.R. Gigers epic total horror design (Giger designed the fundamentals of the Alien franchise in case you didn't know) conveyed a slightly campy but coherent version of that. I also thought that the actors and character portrayal was very well cast and well done across the board, right down to side-parts. Even Sting totally nailed a Lynch-driven Feyd Rautha. Also in that regard the movie still holds up today IMHO. It's also that part where Villeneuve is probably most eager not to screw things up. Totos opening theme and the title images is as epic and timeless as ever

    The problem with Dune 1984 is that IIRC Lynch wanted to squeeze Dune into an 4-5 hour film but profit requirements cut that back to regular feature film length. It shows in the beginning sequence that really takes its time to do the worldbuilding. That the last 2 thirds had to be chopped up and cut down to standard hollywood fare squandered a bit of the potential. Enter Villeneuve. Villeneuve actually liked the 1984 version because he liked the material but he thought it fell short of its potential (Duh.). IIRC reading and later watching Dune (1984) it's even one of those experiences that compelled him to become a director and redoing Dune was on his wishlist since his teens.

    So let's hope for the best. I was weary seeing the first trailer, it looked closer to the book but a little "meh". Trailer two showed more glimpses of the world, the navigators and other details and it sure looked better. I'm hopeful that Villeneuve can deliver on his intention one-up the 1984 Dune. I really like him for not screwing up Bladerunner 2049 - I thought for a movie that absolutely positively does not need any sort of sequel and has a high chance of suffering from one he did a tremendous job and delivered a plausible story in the BR universe with a very present cast.

    If he does the same with a Dune redo, I'll be fine with it.

    My 2 eurocents.

  • by Opportunist ( 166417 ) on Wednesday October 20, 2021 @06:57AM (#61909491)

    I'm waiting for this version to prove me wrong, but I doubt it will.

    Dune doesn't really work as a movie for two reasons: First, it's way, WAY too convoluted to be told in a mere 2 hours. That's one of the reasons why most people who didn't know the books hated the 1984 version: It doesn't make any sense if you don't know how to fill the logical gaps in the story the movie tells because you know from the books what belongs in there. The movie has to leave out certain parts of the story unless you want to make it a test drive for Prep H due to people having to sit still for 10+ hours.

    And then there's the fact that a LOT of the story is told as internal monologue of characters. The whole 5th book is essentially Paul talking to himself. That works fine in a book, it even still kinda works for a theater play, but a movie audience expects to see more than a guy staring at them with a blank face while hearing his inner monologue. Movies are "show, don't tell" media, and unfortunately Dune is a story that is told, not shown.

    Like I said, I'm waiting for the new version for a final verdict, but unless they find a way around these problems, that's not going to change.

    • The whole 5th book is essentially Paul talking to himself. That works fine in a book,

      That's a matter of personal taste. I read _Dune_ when I was 12 and thought it was terrible. There might be a good sci-fi story in there somewhere but it is so buried under useless inner monologue to even glimpse a bit of it.

      The other genre that extensively uses inner monologues? Romance novels, and those are pure dreck as well.

      • by pjt33 ( 739471 )

        There might be a good sci-fi story in there somewhere

        Dune is more fantasy than sci-fi. The technology isn't entirely irrelevant, but the things which really define the setting are magical rather than technological.

        • I mean, really, most of the stuff that is labeled as sci-fi falls into the fantasy category because, unless the technology exists, it is fantasy.

          If your story involves any of the following, it is fantasy/magic based:

          - Time travel
          - FTL
          - Worm holes
          - Force fields
          - Anti-gravity / Inertia dampening

    • I saw the Dune movie before it was made. When I read engaging fiction, it turns into a head-movie including visuals.

      I have enjoyed films that many impugn for length, 238 minutes of La Belle Noiseuse, or the 219 minute DVD cut of Heaven's Gate, but I also recall missing part of Star Wars from having to pee the consequences of the large Dr. Pepper that seemed like a good idea on a hot summer day. There is no market for 12-20 hour book-reading-length films.

      Series presentation can work well, especially if t

    • Good news is this one has no inner monologuing like the previous one, and also doesn't attempt to tell the whole first book in one film.

      What's not obvious until you see the title card is that this film is called "Dune Part 1" and ends as Paul and his mother join the Fremen.

  • We can revisit 1984's Dune all you like, it's not going to change anything. Unless if by "revisit" you mean "revise". A subtle but important difference. Because only by revising the old film's plot and beating it into today's context of current events and point of views will you ever be able to claim that it was about climate change. It was also not a thriller, simply because it wasn't thrilling. David Lynch is to blame for that.

    Because I have yet to see a movie by David Lynch that wasn't boring. Except Dun

    • It's easy to make Dune about climate change if you want to, but why would you want to?

      • 2/3rds of movies are re-dos of old movies and historical periods seeking to right old wrongs by re-creating the past except with contemporary mores. It would be hard to say how much of that is propaganda vs. commercial motivation to capitalize on the audience's interest of the moment instead of making a risky effort to divert them to other topics.
  • Too much depending on visual effects and no substance or plot to speak of, or at least one that made sense to me. I assume the same will hold for this movie.

    Hollywood keeps forgetting it's telling a story, not showing some visual effects to make up for a hollow plot line. In that sense CGI is the worst thing that ever happened to the movie industry. With each improvement in the realism of the special effects the plots become thinner and thinner with the last Star Wars trilogy as the current low-point.
    • CGI cliches are especially annoying. My particular peeve is the "swirling cloud of copier toner" effect that has been used far too much over the past few years for "horrible disease entering or exiting the body", "supernatural evil entering or exiting the body", and "alien demon seed entering or exiting the body".
      • Honestly, I can forgive mediocre CGI. Most of my favorite movies have practical effects where I can clearly see they're just models, rotoscoping, or jerky stop motion. Aliens, Ghostbusters, Star Wars, all have it. It's on for only one scene and since I am so enthralled in the story, I don't really notice unless someone shows me a clip out of context. While even bad CGI looks dumb, I don't notice if the story is told well enough because I am distracted with the story itself. The color grading kicks in b
        • Film was a harsh mistress. I would spend a great deal of time, money, and effort in the darkroom to try to rework one color still picture to be the memory of what I saw, rather than what the film saw. Color grading was essential for quality productions, given different runs of film stock, and occasional special needs for storytelling. There was more skill in it than just turning a knob, and the knob is now too easy to turn.
    • Dude, just because you liked the original better, doesn't mean the sequel sucks. I thought it was good. I enjoyed it. I enjoyed the original more. The original impacted me more and is rightfully described a masterpiece of the genre. The sequel was good, perfectly fine. The only problem is it's overshadowed by the original.

      It's EXTREMELY rare that a franchise has multiple AMAZING movies. For example, Aliens blew my mind and still does. Alien was great, but not as impactful as Aliens, the rest?...e
  • by peterww ( 6558522 ) on Wednesday October 20, 2021 @08:38AM (#61909661)

    So I actually love 1984 Dune. It's not incomprehensible at all. I still remember and understand the entire thing - so much so that when I saw the new Dune, I was disappointed at how badly it copied the old one scene for scene, and how bad the acting is in the new one.

    The only thing I don't like about the old Dune was the massive fighting scenes where they just sort of play that operatic music in the background, because it took forever. Everything else about the old Dune rocked. It was stylistically and acting-wise exactly what I wanted out of a creepy space opera. It's still one of my favorite movies.

    Don't let other people tell you what you should or shouldn't like.

    • by mattr ( 78516 )

      THANK YOU! Yes, I always thought the old Dune was awesome and have seen it countless times. It rocks! I still like it! The new one? The trailer left me cold, even though I wanted to see it as awesome. It wasn't. Especially the whiny, voice-cracking protagonist. What!? I have no patience for that and would not enjoy imagining myself as that nebbish. Though I am not going to movie theaters it would not even be at the top of my streaming rental list, sorry to say. Just wanted to come here and say the old Dune

    • You can like it, that doesn't make it a good film. The 1984 version would be better placed as a mother telling you a story as you fall asleep. The classic movie making 101 rule of show don't tell is just pissed all over, it's a movie entirely reliant on an excruciating amount of narration and still borderline incoherent of you don't know the material.

      I can forgive bad acting but the 1984 movie was outright horrible, even when it didn't take a dump on the source material.

      Even its own director didn't want to

  • by angularbanjo ( 1521611 ) on Wednesday October 20, 2021 @08:39AM (#61909663)
    The link below is to an audio interview from I think just before the 1984 release, with Frank Herbert and David Lynch together. It's clear that Frank Herbert was completely fine with Lynch's approach, was closely involved as the screenplay developed, and was happy with the new ideas Lynch focused on visually. But what definitely comes across is the worry both of them had with cutting a lot of material out, and hurrying the narrative along, which is what happened when the money people insisted that the release be much shorter than Lynch was actually making (the 'extended version' released some time later was just a hot mess of cut scenes and Lynch had nothing to do with it and used the Directors Guild to get his name taken off it). Neither Lynch nor Herbert would have agreed to try to make Dune a two hour movie if that was the requirement up-front. Lynch didn't have final cut anyway, so the race to assemble something shorter, just to meet external requirements, led to the unsatisfactory theatrical release, with them shooting additional expository scenes and adding narration to plug the gaps. https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]
  • Evel Knievel used a Harley-Davidson Sportster. His son, Robbie, uses a dirt bike.
  • Personally I always really liked it having only discovered it around the mid-2000s.

    But my wife and I also sit around watching Lost Boys, Bio Dome, Seven, Shawshank, Interview with, Goodfellas, Godfather, Pulp Fiction and other older quirky classics.

    I always enjoyed the 1984 dune as a middleground and the correct amount of Kitch applied to Starwars.

    Also maybe I am just a geek but the CGI for the 80s was actually AMAZING if you watch other flicks of the same era.

  • Yes, it's true that David Lynch introduced the Weirding Modules, which weren't in the book, but I suspect that he thought he would have a difficult time suspending the vewers' belief which is a knock against the original book. In the end, when Paul broke the stone whilst destroying Feyd-Rautha Rabban;s body, it was all the better. In the end he used an entire movie to work up to making you belief it.

    Though, the problem is: David Lynch villainized gingers and the gay men; as for the latter, I think that Al
  • When I first saw Dune in theaters I was way too young to really grasp much of the movie (I believe I was 7) but I thought the action sequences were cool and of course I had to have a sandworm action figure (I still have it somewhere). Years later in college I rented a copy of the movie and understood it completely but thought it was too much crammed into too short a movie. Still, I appreciated that it was very different sort of sci-fi movie. Sometime in the early 2000's they finally released the extended
  • Three changes... (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Moridineas ( 213502 ) on Wednesday October 20, 2021 @09:48AM (#61909843) Journal

    I like the Lynch movie, but parts are a hot mess. I think it would be an amazing movie with three changes:

    1. Get rid of the Weird modules. Completely unnecessary.

    2. Tone down all the disgusting Harkonnen shit--blood sucking, boil popping, cat milking, all of it. We get it, they're villains.

    3. Give the Bene Gesserit back their hair.

  • My exposure to Dune was the original 1992 DOS game, Still a great game because you get to interact with most characters in it, so when you send one off to battle, you have an attachment to them. Compare that with a modern RTS where you just pump fodder characters and outsmart or outnumber the enemy.

    This movie was great. I will say it's not levels of Blade Runner 2049 great, and I'd attribute that mostly to the fact the story wasn't complete. I didn't know this was part one until I saw the title at the beg
  • I've been listening to that song regularly since 1992. For once in my life, I feel "seen."
  • It requires a Game of Thrones length series

  • I give 0 fucks about this new one. I know the old one takes a lot of shit. I don't care, and I admit I never read the book.

    Writer and director David Lynch has said he considers this movie the only real failure of his career. To this day, he refuses to talk about the production in great detail, and has refused numerous offers to work on a Special Edition DVD. Lynch claims revisiting the movie would be too painful an experience to endure.

    From IMDB. I disagree. I didn't even know it was a David Lynch movie until recently, but having seen Lost Highway in high school the only thing I can remember about that was the awesome soundtrack.

    There is also a great documentary about Jodorowsky's failed Dune [wikipedia.org] which features a lot of weird shit and HR Geiger designs.

The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds new discoveries, is not "Eureka!" (I found it!) but "That's funny ..." -- Isaac Asimov

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