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Television Displays Technology

Samsung Bets On MicroLED and 8K For Its Premium 2023 TVs (engadget.com) 42

Posted by BeauHD from the what's-in-the-pipeline dept.
Four years after introducing its MicroLED technology at CES 2018, Samsung claims the technology is ready for the masses and "will set the standard for picture quality in 2023," reports Engadget. From the report: At CES 2023, the company announced it would offer 50-, 63-, 76-, 89-, 101-, 114- and 140-inch MicroLED models, greatly expanding the amount of choice consumers have when it comes to the new display technology. Samsung didn't provide pricing and availability information for the expanded line, but the company claims the new models are its most affordable MicroLED TVs to date. [...] The set sports a 240Hz variable refresh rate and 2-nanosecond response time. It also offers 20-bit black detail for "intense" contrast.

Samsung is also promising upgrades for its Neo QLED sets, starting with the line's new flagship. The QN900C features an 8K Quantum MiniLED-lit panel capable of maxing out at 4,000 nits of brightness. As with Samsung's 2022 Neo QLED sets, the QN900C features a 14-bit backlight. However, the TV offers even better contrast thanks to a tweak the company made to its 8K Real Depth Enhancer Pro software. Samsung is also promising improved picture quality when viewing older movies and TV shows thanks to the inclusion of its new Auto HDR Remastering algorithm, which can automatically apply HDR effects to standard dynamic range content.

For those who would prefer a 4K set, there's also the QN935C. Samsung's new 4K flagship features a redesigned power board that eliminates the need for an external connection box and allows for bezels that are less than 20mm thick. The QN935C also features top-firing speakers, allowing the set to produce Dolby Atmos sound without a dedicated soundbar. You can use both the QN900C and QN935C as a smart home hub thanks to the fact Samsung's entire 2023 Neo QLED line will feature built-in Zigbee and Matter Thread all-in-one modules. As for its OLED models, Samsung announced the 2023 QD-OLED TV line, which will offer up to 2,000 nits of peak brightness and support 144Hz refresh rates -- all while being more energy efficient than before. "Additionally, the company has gone out of its way to get the panels AMD FreeSync Premium Pro certified," adds Engadget.
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Samsung Bets On MicroLED and 8K For Its Premium 2023 TVs More

Samsung Bets On MicroLED and 8K For Its Premium 2023 TVs

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  • The set sports a 240Hz variable refresh rate and 2-nanosecond response time.

    I think somebody doesn't know how short a nanosecond is. Light goes about 30cm (1 foot) per nanosecond.

    • Re:Units (Score:4, Informative)

      by ceoyoyo ( 59147 ) on Friday January 06, 2023 @08:46PM (#63186484)

      I expect Samsung's engineers are probably pretty clear on SI prefixes.

      LEDs have very low latency. You can go down to your local electronics supplier and buy a handful that can probably do under 10 ns. The smaller ones are faster, and microLED is really small. If you care about it, you can design LEDs and laser diodes that can turn on and off in under 100 picoseconds.

      • Alright, after looking further response time does just include the LED itself, not input latency as a whole. The refresh rate of 240 hz sets a lower limit of 1/240 ~ 4 ms of input latency, but then again maybe there is some advantage of a near-instantaneous pixel transitions, for 3d perspective switching or something. Clearly this tech is "game over" for reducing pixel response time.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by ceoyoyo ( 59147 )

          Oh no, I think it's probably pretty useless, unless you want to transmit data by modulating the pixels in your TV or something. But the number is likely correct (certainly the prefix is).

          One of the things you could do with the fast response time of microLEDs is enormous dynamic range. That's probably what the "20-bit blacks" is all about. The achievable number is way past anything useful, but making response time and dynamic range "practically perfect" is a practical advantage over the limitations of liquid

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by Z80a ( 971949 )

            Transmitting data by modulating the pixels would be pretty cool.
            Point high speed phone camera to small block on screen, file is copied to phone with zero network hassle.

            • https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]

              " The watch was demonstrated by Bill Gates on 21 June 1994 in a presentation where he downloaded information from a computer monitor using bars of light and then showed to the audience the downloaded appointments and other data."

              And if that wasn't enough, there was a handheld electronic Wheel of Fortune game sold during the same era that got data from 'modulated pixels' on a TV screen which the show was being played on. (IIRC) They had episodes of WoF live with the m

          • It's not useless at all for gamers, who've been waiting to get back the near instant pixel response times of CRTs for decades now. It makes a HUGE difference in the quality and clarity of a dynamically rendered image in motion that responds to user controls.

            • Yep.

              There were a whole bunch of years there where manufacturers advertised their very-low-lag monitors... whose unmentioned pixel response spanned several screen refresh cycles so that you would constantly see the "ghosts" of the last several frames of animation on the screen.

              Seems like the way they measured pixel response time was(is?) an issue too - many provided the black-to-white response times, while the grey-to-grey (e.g. 80%-20%) response times that you actually care about were were FAR lower (I seem

            • Re: (Score:2)

              by ceoyoyo ( 59147 )

              When you're talking differences in milliseconds it makes a difference.

              When you're talking nanoseconds, it does not. If you think it does, you might be a Monster Cables customer.

              • Exactly, and we're going from milliseconds to nanoseconds.

                Clearly your comprehension is as poor as your knowledge of current hardware performance.

                • Re: (Score:2)

                  by ceoyoyo ( 59147 )

                  The achievable number is way past anything useful, but making response time and dynamic range "practically perfect" is a practical advantage over the limitations of liquid crystals.

                  Better than your reading comprehension, I guess. But then, you just really, really wanted to tell us how you're a *gamer* with *special requirements* didn't you?

    • Just to illustrate it for those that really cannot imagine it just HOW little time that is, it's one billionth of a second. If we could stretch a nanosecond to last a second, a second would last for almost 32 years.

      Your life would be over in less than 3 seconds.

    • Not sure what you think light travelling distance has to do with the speed at which an emission source can be toggled.

      • Well, they don't specify what response time they're talking about, and if you're talking input response time (lag), then it's physically impossible for a signal to get from the input jack to the far pixels in a two-foot screen within 1ns.

  • All the older models will get that fix too, right?

  • That means Monitors won't be that far behind either.

  • It would be pretty neat if this television also supported dealing with stuff like composite in a decent manner, as in actually detecting 240p, not adding a bunch of input lag and abusing the high refresh rate and HDR to display a picture pretty much like a CRT would.

    • Re:Old content (Score:4, Insightful)

      by jacks smirking reven ( 909048 ) on Friday January 06, 2023 @08:28PM (#63186458)

      Unofrtunately for some that is always going to be a niche case as 95% of people are going to hook into HDMI and never touch component much less composite and there's no incentive for a manufacturer to put super quality low latency analog-to-digital converters into sets, especially at the high end like we see here when they will almost always it idle.

      Outside of sourcing an actual CRT if utilizing composite sources is important to you is invest in a high quality external scaler/deinterlacer such as a RetroTink or similar.

      https://www.retrotink.com/prod... [retrotink.com]

      http://retrogaming.hazard-city... [hazard-city.de]

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by Z80a ( 971949 )

        There's a lot of effort done on analog signals on most televisions, but on the wrong direction.
        Some very fancy deinterlacing routines that use previous frames and all sorts of tricks to try to make it look more "HD".
        skipping most of those and doing a simple "CRT mode" would reduce the input lag etc while requiring less processing power of the television.

        • For those who care though, which is primarily composed of vintage computer people and retro gamers no LCD can give a CRT mode that really hold a candle to an actual CRT. There's no replacing the composite signal going straight into a tube. The audience for the in-between group is fractionally small, thus niche products for that audience.

  • The announcement does not reveal much information beyond the many buzzwords. The little data that is there is not very plausible - "2 nanosecond response time" and "20-bit black" sound like complete nonsense.
    Wake me when some independent testers had a chance to put their new models to the test.
  • The very first micro "apartment" I rented in Bangalore back then had a bedroom sized 9 feet by 10 feet. This TV would not fit in!

  • Get rid of all the useless bits. No audio section required, so no speakers either. No tuner required. 1 HDMI input is sufficient. Only one set of "picture settings" required -- Calibrated. Get rid of all the rest of the crap.

    • So long as the HDMI is down-facing. Rear-facing prevents a flush wall mount and side-facing is unnecessaruky vulnerable to cat yank damage.
      • Actually, now that I think about it, HDMI should not exist in 2023. Any signal you would send through HDMI can be done over the air....

        • Please let us know what 4k/60 or better rock solid reliable wireless video solution you are using.

          • I have multiple DirecTV boxes and only one plugs into the cable jack in the wall. And that equipment is from....nearly a decade ago. While I haven't confirmed modern hardware can do the job for 8k, I would be surprised if it couldnt come close. At least it should be enough for the typical 1080p signal.

            • That is not "over the air" that is over coax, and unless those boxes are 12G-SDI they are not capable of transmitting 4K over those wires.

              • It's only over coax up to the first DirecTV box. Then it's over the air to the others. That's all that's needed---the last 5 feet. One less cord to get tangled. And it's okay if there's still a wired option for power users. Most people don't notice the difference.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by linuxguy ( 98493 )
          Wireless is prone to interference. And will be inferior to wired for a very long time. Particularly when you are pushing high resolution high framerate video.

  • Need to do alot better on "Smart" part of TV (Score:5, Informative)

    by lpq ( 583377 ) on Friday January 06, 2023 @08:53PM (#63186498) Homepage Journal

    I got one of these before Xmas, and was disappointed -- The smarts aren't very smart. I frequently use my LED wall screen as a 2nd monitor and watch movies and shows on it via my PC. I had hoped to watch similar content and stream the audio into my Onkyo theater unit -- except Samsung's modern TV have no audio-out -- they only use the audio-return. Turns out it is flakey -- won't switch from PC to TV-out (no volume). I found I could get it to work if I power cycled the TV until a new update was loaded last week -- now can't get it to work at all. I called Samsuck support (they won't let me use my samsung@domain email) and they insist the problem is in my Onkyo...even though it works if I power cycle the unit and even though they can't tell me or give me a standard HDMI audio out (like my previous Samsung had). Now, they only provide audio on the 'return "EARC" (E-AudioReturn-C). Anyway, avoid smart TV's unless you are sure you really want one -- since I can play all the content without as many restrictions on my computer and use the Samsung as a dumb display.

    Also, you can't stream the AV for processing into the theater processor (it has picture and audio enhancing features) nor can I save the signal onto an HDMI compatible device -- I can only save it to a USB Hard Disk (not a thumb drive or RAID device -- again this is their form of copy protection. In the US, they
    disable the ability to pause live TV and time-shift shows. This feature is only disabled in the US.

    I am unhappy w/the restrictions and problems and their lack of support -- blaming it on my equipment when my equip worked with the previous samsung. Let the buyer beware!

  • "The QN935C also features top-firing speakers, allowing the set to produce Dolby Atmos sound without a dedicated soundbar. You can use both the QN900C and QN935C as a smart home hub thanks to the fact Samsung's entire 2023 Neo QLED line will feature built-in Zigbee and Matter Thread all-in-one modules."

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]

  • for watching TV and films at comfortable viewing distances. Even if you have better-than-average 20:15 vision, you need to sit closer than about 50" from a 100" screen to resolve the pixels at 8K. Recommended viewing distances are over double that so 4K is enough. Most cinemas are still using 2K projectors.

    If you're building some kind of ultra-wide-field-of-view surround vision system then, sure, go for 8K; it's just not something people can benefit from with a home TV.

  • I bought my current high end Samsung about 2 years ago, specifically because I wanted the brighter output over an OLED.

    What I didnâ(TM)t realize was that their OS was going to insert ads into the menu bar o. The bottom, even after I paid an obscene purchase price.

    Forget it. Never again. Got my eye on some LG C2s to replace smaller TVs in other parts of the house.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by linuxguy ( 98493 )
      Thanks for the heads up. I will steer clear of Samsung TVs. I do have a couple of LG OLEDs. One at home and one at work that I use as a computer monitor. Very happy with them.

    • Boy are you in for a surprise when you plug in your LG TV.

      Ads are a thing now on every smart TV. Mind you I'm not sure what you're concerned about. Do you watch the menu bar? That's a bit weird, personally I watch the movie and don't see a menu bar at all.

  • Would rather have an IT article here than a consumer electronics one.

  • Seriously, the only "lesser" is that they're 4K and 120hz panels instead of 8K and 240.
    And for most people, that's perfectly fine.
    As noted elsewhere, if you're seeing pixels on the screen, you're sitting WAY, WAAAY too close.

    They're decent TVs, and they're actually a perfectly viable option as a computer monitor (including gaming).

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