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Television Businesses IT

Startup Plans To Give Away 500,000 Free 4K TVs. The Catch? The Sets Have a Second Screen That Constantly Shows Ads (variety.com) 190

Posted by msmash from the stranger-things dept.
Ilya Pozin made a bunch of money when Viacom bought Pluto TV, the free video-streaming company he co-founded, for $340 million four years ago. Since exiting Pluto about a year after that deal closed, Pozin has been working on another startup venture -- one he thinks will be a much bigger deal. From a report: On Monday, Pozin's brainchild, Telly, comes out of stealth after two years in development. Telly wants to ship out thousands (and eventually millions) of free 4K HDTVs, which would cost more than $1,000 at retail, according Pozin. The 55-inch main screen is a regular TV panel, with three HDMI inputs and an over-the-air tuner, plus an integrated soundbar. The Telly TVs don't actually run any streaming apps that let you access services like Netflix, Prime Video or Disney+; instead, they're bundled with a free Chromecast with Google TV adapter.

What's new and different: The unit has a 9-inch-high second screen, affixed to the bottom of the set, which is real estate Telly will use for displaying news, sports scores, weather or stocks, or even letting users play video games. And, critically, Telly's second screen features a dedicated space on the right-hand side that will display advertising -- ads you can't skip past and ads that stay on the screen the whole time you're watching TV... and even when you're not.
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Startup Plans To Give Away 500,000 Free 4K TVs. The Catch? The Sets Have a Second Screen That Constantly Shows Ads More

Startup Plans To Give Away 500,000 Free 4K TVs. The Catch? The Sets Have a Second Screen That Constantly Shows Ads

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  • Hey (Score:5, Funny)

    by Z80a ( 971949 ) on Monday May 15, 2023 @10:09AM (#63522297)

    Nice real life idiocracy reference you guys are doing here!

    • Re:Hey (Score:5, Insightful)

      by arglebargle_xiv ( 2212710 ) on Monday May 15, 2023 @10:23AM (#63522363)
      Yup. And it's 2000-era dotcom stupidity all over again, we'll give away the thing, take a $1,000 loss on each one, but make up for it in volume! And investors will pour millions into it until they eventually realise that giving away 4K TVs that are one reflash away from being free standard 4K TVs is a really dumb business model.
      • Comment removed based on user account deletion
      • I expect you might have to wait for the service to go bankrupt before you start modifying your "free" TV. There's probably something in the agreement about that, with some kind of penalty, and they're going to be tracking you at all times so it's not like they wouldn't know.

        • No programming required (Score:5, Insightful)

          by Comboman ( 895500 ) on Monday May 15, 2023 @10:39AM (#63522427)

          Back in the day, people who didn't know how to set the clock on their VCRs would cover over the flashing "12:00AM" display with tape. It wouldn't be hard to do this to the second screen (or even just the part of it that shows ads). As far as the company knows, the TV is still receiving and displaying the ads. Sometimes the simplest hacks are the best.

          • This does seem like the best approach. There's a product that's used in the film industry called "blackwrap" which would work well for this.

            However, I can picture them just putting a little nag on the bottom screen every once in a while, asking for user input.
          • And actually, come to think of it, this thing has a camera on it, and a microphone. Though, looking through their privacy policy, this is less bad than I expected.

            Data we do not collect
            * Our product has embedded microphones in it that activate the “Hey Telly” feature. When you use “Hey Telly” to make a voice request, the things you say are recorded by or sent to Telly servers. As is the industry standard with voice assistant technology, Telly partners with 3rd parties that power our “Hey Telly” feature and they may anonymously store voice commands to make improvements and enhancements to our services.
            * Our product has a built in camera that supports features like video calling, fitness, and arcade games. There will be more features that launch over time that the camera will also support. The camera has a physical shutter built into it and the user controls when the camera is open and closed. When the camera is open, images, recordings, or biometric information about you are not stored on Telly servers.

            It's still a smart speaker, and is as bad as any of those, but not worse. So that's... a start. Seriously, if you want Amazon to spy on you then you have to pay for the privilege. This is free. That's a kind of step in the right direction.

            • Re: (Score:3)

              by bjwest ( 14070 )

              And actually, come to think of it, this thing has a camera on it, and a microphone. Though, looking through their privacy policy, this is less bad than I expected.

              Data we do not collect * Our product has embedded microphones in it that activate the “Hey Telly” feature. When you use “Hey Telly” to make a voice request, the things you say are recorded by or sent to Telly servers. As is the industry standard with voice assistant technology, Telly partners with 3rd parties that power our “Hey Telly” feature and they may anonymously store voice commands to make improvements and enhancements to our services. * Our product has a built in camera that supports features like video calling, fitness, and arcade games. There will be more features that launch over time that the camera will also support. The camera has a physical shutter built into it and the user controls when the camera is open and closed. When the camera is open, images, recordings, or biometric information about you are not stored on Telly servers.

              It's still a smart speaker, and is as bad as any of those, but not worse. So that's... a start. Seriously, if you want Amazon to spy on you then you have to pay for the privilege. This is free. That's a kind of step in the right direction.

              I'm sure there's a "we reserve the right to change these terms at anytime", and they will notify you of those changes with a message on the bottom of the lower screen in 6pt font, stating continued use of this device applies consent to these changes in terms.

          • Maybe it uses an ambient light sensor to go into a dimmer night mode. I think it will at least be night 24/7. Failing that, I'll take the free Chromecast and plug it into a different TV.

          • Re:No programming required (Score:4, Interesting)

            by eth1 ( 94901 ) on Monday May 15, 2023 @12:31PM (#63522871)

            Back in the day, people who didn't know how to set the clock on their VCRs would cover over the flashing "12:00AM" display with tape. It wouldn't be hard to do this to the second screen (or even just the part of it that shows ads). As far as the company knows, the TV is still receiving and displaying the ads. Sometimes the simplest hacks are the best.

            Depends on how smart they are. If I were designing this, I'd make that secondary screen the only one that shows settings menus, pause/seek/volume controls, channel info, etc., so that you can't cover it up without making the TV unusable. Then promote it as a feature because "it doesn't obscure the main display!"

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

            It will probably be easy enough to hack the firmware and turn that screen into something useful. Or just disconnect the power/data cable. Or disconnect the data cable, attach your own USB adapter PCB, and write a Kodi plugin for your Raspberry Pi.

        • I disconnected it from power. Why, I have to keep it powered all the time?

          • According to their terms of service [freetelly.com], yes. And connected to the internet at all times, excluding only "short periods each month."

            • Too bad, I have no internet connection.

              At least none that I can share with this device.

        • This is much better than some old ::cue::cat [slashdot.org] !
          • Yeah, I was thinking of those Stadia controllers that turned out to be so good. Only after the Stadia service was cancelled of course, but how long will it take for this company to go bankrupt? Can't imagine it'll be that long.
      • It'd be a lot less than a $1000 set, only 55" and it's so cheap it cant even run apps, not even an android tv. but absolutely on the hacks, or physical modification.

      • And investors will pour millions into it until they eventually realise that giving away 4K TVs that are one reflash away from being free standard 4K TVs

        At the very least...I wonder how hard it would be to "surgically excise" the smaller screen from the unit entirely?

      • Hush! At least wait 'til we all have one before telling them!

      • I immediately thought of Cue Cat. Hopefully this exercise in creating digital landfill will get stopped before it starts.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by B'Trey ( 111263 )

          Cue cat. I think I still have one of those buried in a drawer somewhere. But you're seriously showing our age.

      • But, but, but, ADS BRO! Advertising is the future! Advertising is the now! Advertising is the name of the game BABEEE!

        Some people in the executive pool are utterly convinced that we can run an entire economy on nothing but advertising. I can't wait for reality to smack them in the face. I'm all for this playing out the way it should.

      • Or, you know, you can duct-tape the part of the lower screen that's showing the ads, or the entire second screen for that matter.
      • Remember the "cuecat"? I do.

        This sounds like a bad deal, even with the free TV thrown in.

      • Yup. And it's 2000-era dotcom stupidity all over again, we'll give away the thing, take a $1,000 loss on each one, but make up for it in volume! And investors will pour millions into it until they eventually realise that giving away 4K TVs that are one reflash away from being free standard 4K TVs is a really dumb business model.

        It seems to me that there is some subset of VCs who became enamored of the belief that an investment in a startup will lead to massive profits in a fairly short amount of time, and the siren call of those crazy high returns is luring them onto the rocks. Whereas most investors now realize those early massive profits are typically followed by big losses (and sometimes companies completely crashing and burning), so they're not willing to send good money after bad.

    • Looking more like setting the stage for 1 million merits to become a reality... When you think about it, advertisers are even more evil than the politicians.

  • Hack (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Meneth ( 872868 ) on Monday May 15, 2023 @10:10AM (#63522299)

    Tape a piece of black paper over the ad area.

    Do the ads play sound?

  • Modification incoming... (Score:3)

    by dskoll ( 99328 ) on Monday May 15, 2023 @10:11AM (#63522307) Homepage

    Disconnect the small screen's backlight from the power supply and problem solved.

    • The terms of service say that if you open the enclosure you have to return the product.

      I wonder what happens if you wait for the startup to go bankrupt before you open the enclosure.

  • If it were free, I suppose some people might tolerate it in their home. A roll of black tape isn't expensive. But if they really believe that TV is a commodity product with a race to a value of 0, why would they think they could make people pay that much for it? Almost looks like an April 1 story, but we're well into May...

    • Damn... didn't read close enoug. An assumed retail cost of $1000, given away... okay, the black tape option is on the table.

      • Wouldn't surprise me in any way if the TV had some kinda sensor or something in it to prevent something like that
        Fuck with the ads it bricks the entire TV.

        • Re:$1000? (Score:5, Funny)

          by classiclantern ( 2737961 ) on Monday May 15, 2023 @10:31AM (#63522395)
          I don't need one but my desire to hack this thing is almost too much to ignore.

          • And I thought I was the only one with this urge.

            I mean, it's like getting a new gaming console for free. OF COURSE you want to mod it, even if you don't give a damn about the games!

          • Yeah, just the concept of a sort of dual screen TV itself sounds interesting. And since it doesn't sound like it's a "smart TV", may even work out very well for many of us.

            Sort of the Asus Zenbook Pro Duo of TVs maybe?
            https://www.asus.com/my/laptop... [asus.com]

            And there are a 1001 ways of covering the ad part of the screen, or if it's thru the internet, maybe something can be done at the router level to block / load the ads but not show anything on the ad part of the screen. ANd thats assuming firmware or hardware mo

        • Pretty hard to build a sensor into an active display that isn't visibly obvious (like the notch in your phone screen where the camera is). Just don't cover that spot.

        • Re:$1000? (Score:5, Informative)

          by nospam007 ( 722110 ) * on Monday May 15, 2023 @10:47AM (#63522461)

          Obviously they'll get jail-broken on day one and then uTorrent and a VPN will run on the second screen.

        • Re: (Score:3)

          by Scoth ( 879800 )

          The article does mention: "The TVs also have a built-in sensor that can detect the number of people who are watching at any particular time. Pozin emphasized that all of Telly’s features comply with privacy regulations."

          So presumably it could have something in there that says "Huh, I've not detected anybody watching for a long time, better disable the TV". As for blocking the bit with the ads itself... I guess, but to me the privacy implication of something constantly watching me like that is a lot mo

  • Stupid idea... (Score:3)

    by bradley13 ( 1118935 ) on Monday May 15, 2023 @10:14AM (#63522321) Homepage

    So much wrong with this. Let's just start:

    1. Ona family's eyeballs are unlikely to be worth $1000 more than the ads they would see on a normal smart TV
    2. Anyone halfway techie won't see any ads, either because they remove or repurpose the second screen, or because they run something like a PiHole.
    3. Anyone not techie, but with a brain, will just cover up the second screen
    4. Anyone who leaves that second screen uncovered is probably at the lower end of the economic ladder
    5. And finally: that's a $1000 TV that can be pawned or sold on to someone who *can* remove/repurpose the second screen.

    That's just off the top of my head. I'm sure one can put together a better list. Someone found a VC sucker for this project...

    • You can buy a 4k 55" from walmart for under $500 all day long. The profit margins on TVs tend to be 10-20%, so they're losing around $300-400. And modern TVs tend to last a long time. I've got an old Viso LCD that was a handme down still going strong after over 15 years. So you're not going to be constantly replacing the hardware

      I suspect this is the advertising industry desperately trying to counteract plummeting Cable and OTA TV ratings. The ad industry is looking at a substantial shrinkage.

      • The ad industry is looking at a substantial shrinkage.

        I'm dubious about that claim, but I sincerely hope you're right. Ideally they shrink into complete non-existence.

        • Cord cutters don't get ads (Score:5, Interesting)

          by rsilvergun ( 571051 ) on Monday May 15, 2023 @01:10PM (#63522969)
          even for stuff like Hulu the vast majority just pay extra to not see them. Online adverts like Twitter's don't work. Very low conversion rates. Even YouTube ads are basically worthless. People just mute their phone and then skip. If you don't let them skip they stop watching.

          The only adverts that worked consistently were TV Ads. Even magazine ads are largely ineffective. I remember when the video game mags died in the early 2000s. It wasn't the Internet that killed them, they lasted until about 2005. The nail in the coffin was when the big guys (Sega, Nintendo, Sony, etc) got enough data to figure out that the ads didn't move product, so they stopped advertising.

          The death of TV is going to be a major shake up in the advertising business. They're all scrambling to figure out what to do next.

      • You can buy a 4k 55" from walmart for under $500 all day long.

        We paid about $325 for ours. It's a Google TV. It is basically crap, but also basically fine. And I run Smart Tube on it so I see less ads than average, not more...

    • Different market (Score:5, Interesting)

      by Comboman ( 895500 ) on Monday May 15, 2023 @11:02AM (#63522517)

      I don't think individual homes are the target market for this (at least they shouldn't be). Think about all the businesses that would love a free TV and don't care one bit about ads (bars/restaurants, airports, barber shops, waiting rooms at the doctor/dentist/garage, etc.). Those are all places with a steady, captive audience that won't be covering over the second display. Advertisers will love it.

    • I think the biggest problem is that anybody with a shred of self-respect wouldn't be caught dead with one in their house. It just screams poor and trashy.

  • does it need to be on line 24/7 with an network that you need to pay for? screen on 24/7 draining power?
    does it have atsc 3.0?

  • ...I'm impressed because
    a) I think this will be big - lots of people like free stuff
    b) even Idiocracy didn't predict this. That's fucking amazing when someone out-Idiocracy's the film.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]

  • At the distance I have to seat to watch the 55" screen, the 9" screen will be almost invisible.

    And, if push comes to shove, a little Vinnyl sheet afixed to the 9" screen will take care of it.

    So, free semi-dumb TV with 3 HDMIs and a Chromecast? Count me in!

    • 9" tall. The main screen is 55" diagonally, so about 47" wide. The bottom screen is just as wide as the main screen, but only 9" tall. The article has a picture.

      • 9" tall. The main screen is 55" diagonally, so about 47" wide. The bottom screen is just as wide as the main screen, but only 9" tall. The article has a picture.

        Sorry, my bad. I read the TFS, commented, then read TFA.

        But still, count me in. Vinnyl is cheap ;-)

    • The description is misleading; 9" is not the diagonal size of the display. The second screen is the same width as the main 55" TV (about 48") but just 9" high, so definitely readable at standard viewing distance.

  • Seems like it would be easy to disable the second screen - maybe even remove it from the unit entirely. If nothing else, you could tape a piece of paper over it.

  • They are giving away the TV like there is something comletely wrong with it. They give no stats on the TV except the most basic and even those aren't enough information.
    The page just keeps screaming it is free. Nothing that sells itself that hard is ever free.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Duds ( 100634 )

      There is absolutely no benefit to them to do anything other than use the cheapest 55s they can get hold of.

      So that is what they'll do.

    • No idea if it has VESA mounting holes built in, but it's also 65 lbs. That's a bit heavier than your average 55" TV.

  • It failed back in '98 (Score:3)

    by Laxator2 ( 973549 ) on Monday May 15, 2023 @10:33AM (#63522407)

    Back in 1998 the spiel was the "Free PC" that was given away with a subscription to an ISP (for a minimum of 2 years IIRC).
    A third of the screen was taken up by ads that were running non-stop.
    Now this is a re-take using 4K TVs instead of PCs.
    Either the proponents assume that everyone forgot about the Free PC failure or they ignored history and are now repeating it.

    • Back in 1998 the spiel was the "Free PC" that was given away with a subscription to an ISP (for a minimum of 2 years IIRC). A third of the screen was taken up by ads that were running non-stop. Now this is a re-take using 4K TVs instead of PCs. Either the proponents assume that everyone forgot about the Free PC failure or they ignored history and are now repeating it.

      What history? This is the internet age. Anything more than two years old is now so obsolete that to observe it as history is to deny the reality that nothing that matters today existed that long ago. Wipe the slate clean. 1998 just as well be 1776, and we all know that year was a complete fabrication.

  • It is all good. (Score:3)

    by oldgraybeard ( 2939809 ) on Monday May 15, 2023 @10:34AM (#63522409)
    The failure rate for startups is 90% and many of those had better business plans.

  • They really give me a computer screen with three HDMI-Inputs for free? No hidden subscription fees?

  • Cheap Electrochromic pannels can be had on Amazon for about U$D 30~50 a piece. A few of those + a 3D printed of CNCd base, and you can hide the bottom screen when is running ads, and make it visible when needed. Nothing a determined technically inclined slashdoter can't do. Now, your typical slashdoter that s not technically inclined (history buff, law buff, biology buff, etc) may have more problems with it...

    The 9" screen has functionality, like Video Calling is done from the small screen. Also, some times

  • They are NOT giving the set away (Score:5, Informative)

    by HotNeedleOfInquiry ( 598897 ) on Monday May 15, 2023 @10:50AM (#63522473)
    The Terms of Service has a long list of reasons why you would be required to return the set, and if you don't, your credit card would be charged for it's cost. Reasons include not using it as your primary TV, not keeping it connected to the internet, running ad-blockers, and opening the unit, making unauthorized modifications, and attaching unauthorized devices.

    • and how will they know that you didn't cover the ad screen with aluminum foil?

      • and how will they know that you didn't cover the ad screen with aluminum foil?

        Cellphones have all manner of sensors behind the screen now, including selfie cameras, proximity sensors and fingerprint sensors. Is not too difficult to do the same for this screen, so, unless you carefully cut and place your aluminum foil, they will detect it allright

        Also, if you use aluminum foil, you will miss out on the (valid and relevant) functionality that the 9" screen brings to the table. Better use carefully placed Electrochromic glass plates instead of aluminum foil or Vinnyl.

      • The hidden second ambient light sensor that doesn't dim the screen.

    • The Terms of Service has a long list of reasons why you would be required to return the set, and if you don't, your credit card would be charged for it's cost. Reasons include not using it as your primary TV, not keeping it connected to the internet, running ad-blockers, and opening the unit, making unauthorized modifications, and attaching unauthorized devices.

      Easy to circunvent:

      1.) Wait for the inevitable teardown on youtube (LTT, JerryRig, etc) to know were the sensors are located.
      2.) Use electrochromic pannels (if you want to be able to use the 9" functionality) or Vinnyl to mask the 9" screen EXCEPT for the sensors.
      3.) DO NOT give the TV the PiHole as your DNS. whitelist everything reating to the TV from your PF-Sense. After all, the Photochromic pannels/Vinnyl will take care of the Ads.
      4.) Use the HDMI/ARC/ERC to connect of a different soundbar/audioOut, low

  • It sends a live 4k feed of everyone in the room to our consumer research department.

  • Reading service agreement (Score:5, Informative)

    by rykin ( 836525 ) on Monday May 15, 2023 @10:57AM (#63522501)
    You must not disconnect it from the internet. You must not use ad blocker. You must use it as your main TV. You cannot open it or modify it. If you don't follow the rules, they will ask for it back or charge your credit card (so you must have one on file with them). Which I assume they will charge the estimated $1000.

    • You must use it as your main TV.

      OK. That one is a hard one to quantify. Not all households even have a "main" TV. Before a couple years ago, my main TV was in a low traffic area in the basement. Nice home theater setup, but I didn't spend any time there if I wasn't watching.

      They require you to keep a current card on file or they will also force you to return it. If you still don't return it and they can't charge you, I'm sure the binding arbitration that you agreed to will require you to pay to have a hearing that orders you to pay f

    • That'll be the scam. They're not anticipating making much off the ads.. they're looking forward to dinging people $1k on their credit cards for what is in all likelihood a shitty sub-$100 television.

  • Others have mentioned this, but I remember some company handing out free PCs with an 800x600 display, where 640x480 of it was usable, the rest ads. Eventually the company folded, pushing out an update to dispense with that and allowing full use of the PC. The ironic thing was that if the PC wasn't used online, IIRC, it would automatically connect via the modem to download ad packs...

    The problem with this marketing is threefold:

    1: The market segment who is using a "free" PC isn't something that you will m

  • Woud'nt it be cheaper to make it 16:10 (Score:3)

    by williamyf ( 227051 ) on Monday May 15, 2023 @11:07AM (#63522531)

    And use the extra pixels for all that crap?!

    Harder to block than a 9" screen separated from the main set by the sound bar... Cheaper to manufacture a 16:10 pannel a 16:9 pannel plus a 43:9 pannel (even if the 43:9 pannel has lower resolution and is, say, led istead of OLED or MiniLed)...

    Easier to integrate 1 pannel in a metal frame than to integrate two of them...

    The only upside I see, a definitely distinctive apperance, and very-slightly less intrusive ads.

    All the rest is inconveniences...

    But hey, what do I know.

  • Nope, nope, nope, nope, nope, nope, and ... nope.

  • It's not even worth the trouble to take theirs and paint over the bottom screen.

  • I just clicked on the link to get on the list to obtain one of these TVs, and after providing my name and phone number, it immediately prompted me to download and install an app on my phone to complete the process. They won't even settle for you filling out a web-based form. They want an app installed that can probably grab all sorts of info from your device they're after, to figure out if you're part of whatever demographic they're looking for.

    Honestly, the only reason I'd want one of these is to hang onto it until someone finds a way to hack it. That bottom screen isn't too bad if you can get it modified to use it some other way. I wouldn't mind it scrolling breaking news or stock ticket type info across it all the time. Just don't want the advertising junk constantly using the right-hand portion of it!

    I would think it's possible the firmware could be re-flashed in this TV to change that behavior.

  • https://www.freetelly.com/term... [freetelly.com]

    In order to use the Product and Services, You will:

    (a) Use the Product as the primary television in Your household;

    (b) Keep the Product connected to WiFi and internet; and

    (c) Not use any software on Your WiFi network that with advertising blocking capability.

    (d) Not make physical modifications to the Product or attach peripheral devices to the Product not expressly approved by Telly. Any attempt to open the Product’s enclosure will be deemed an unauthorized modificatio

  • So you say I'm not allowed to modify the free tv you're kindly giving me in any way. Does putting an appropriately-sized piece of heavy black cardboard very close to the screen showing ads but not actually touching it count as "modification"?

    Asking for a friend.

  • Another use for duct tape!
  • On 24/7 displaying advertisements, if this product manages to get an Energy Star rating then the EPA should be disbanded.
  • This might be the dumbest fucking thing I've ever heard of. This "ads are our entire profit" shit needs to go away. The $300 mass-produced smart TV that also has built-in ads and trackers and is probably listening to me all the time anyway is not even remotely worth the hassle and pain and constant network connection this bullshit will require.

    I can't wait until someone gets the TV and just yanks the ad screen out of it. Or better yet, find a way to make it a hardware Picture-in-Picture set. Watch the la
  • Some people just don't know when they get lucky and need to take the money and run!

  • So, you'll see an ad glaring the entire time even during dark scenes and whatnot?

    Well what's stopping someone from just covering it up with black masking tape? Wonder if people will hack+hijack the video feed somehow to display their own images/logo etc...

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