Now Musicians' Union Threatens Possible Strike Over AI, Streaming Media (cnn.com) 64
"After a year in which both actors and writers hit the picket lines, another Hollywood strike may be on the horizon," reports CNN:
The American Federation of Musicians (AFM), a union representing musicians across the entertainment industry, will begin negotiations Monday on a new contract with the Alliance of Motion Picture and Television Producers (AMPTP). The union said it is seeking a deal to better reflect the current state of streaming media. The AFM is also seeking AI protection, increased wages, health care improvements, improved working conditions and residual payments for streaming content.
According to the AFM, musicians who record on soundtracks make 75% less on streaming content due to less residual income. "The entertainment industry has fundamentally shifted," the union said in a news release. But musicians "are not being compensated accordingly for streaming media." AFM's president and chief negotiator Tino Gagliardi told CNN the union "is going to be prepared to do whatever it needs to get what we have to have, in order to make the lives of musicians better..."
The AFM says it has roughly 70,000 members in the United States and Canada. Members include instrumental musicians working in orchestras, bands, clubs and theater who create music for film, television, commercials and other mediums.
The AFM says it has roughly 70,000 members in the United States and Canada. Members include instrumental musicians working in orchestras, bands, clubs and theater who create music for film, television, commercials and other mediums.
AI music breakthrough? (Score:2)
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They've learned one trick from the "intellectual property" lawyers who run Hollywood - you must anticipate and grab in advance, not try to get it back later.
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He was a famous shoe salesman in the 80's. Scored 4 touchdowns in one game. President of No-Mam. An American folk hero.
Re:AI music breakthrough? (Score:5, Insightful)
Why do you need it to be outstanding? If autotune has taught us one thing its that consumers don't give a shit how artificial a voice sounds.
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Did I miss a headline? is there now an outstanding AI music generator out there or are these musicians guessing there soon will be.
This will probably end up being like the writers strikes where it was cool for a writer to use it to help them generate story lines but not cool for non-writers to use it to replace the writers.
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There have been some very lifelike AI performances of modern hits lately by Elvis Presley, Johnny Cash, and Frank Sinatra. Also an AI George Carlin that was good.
Some Detractors say "they suck and are horrible and obviously fake."
But most Detractors agree they are good and getting better rapidly.
And all artist types are flipping from "it's terrible and could never replace us" to "holy shit, I can't tell the difference any more. i'm going to lose my lifelihood! This is *soooo different* than all the manu
Where was the union ... (Score:1)
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The purpose of unions is to represent their affiliates and their opinions. Unions raise a point now is because artists are complaining to them (to the unions). To the opposite, musicians themselves were the main to benefit from the drum machines, why would they go to the union and request the union to complain and fight the drum machines in court?
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its just some mildly racist trolling, they don't even know what they mean besides "black people music no talent"
and before anyone claims its not implied there is no other reason to single out hip hop as drum machines and sequencers have been used in every genre since they were developed.
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> In fact any music with a beat is black music...
Uh, no. Sorry. You have been drinking too much kool-aid.
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All American music is black music
No more than Turkish [wikipedia.org] or more generally Arabic [wikipedia.org] and Mexican (which goes back to Spanish and the Moors. Arabs again).
Re: Where was the union ... (Score:1)
Sure, as you saw with the writers union, and the autoworkers union and all the other unions, they only care about their own pockets. The writer union screwed the writers when it came to the LLM stuff.
Re:Where was the union ... (Score:5, Interesting)
They sorta addresses this in a weird way, in 1959:
In 1959, Wurlitzer released the Side Man, which generates sounds mechanically by a rotating disc, similar to a music box. A slider controls the tempo (between 34 and 150 beats per minute). Sounds can also be triggered individually through buttons on a control panel. The Side Man was a success and drew criticism from the American Federation of Musicians, which ruled in 1961 that its local jurisdictions could not prohibit Side Man use, though it could not be used for dancing.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
By the hour (Score:2, Insightful)
They should just be paid by the hour for their time.
What happens with the work for hire that is produced really should be none of their business.
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The idea that it's natural and acceptable for someone else to get permanent income in return for a one-time payment to someone else is one that should die.
Either work-for-hire should be abolished or nearly eternal copyright should be abolished. The two can not ethically co-exist in the same economic system.
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Being a musician was a poor life from 10,000BC until Elvis, roughly speaking.
It seems like 1955-2025 will be seen as a 70-year blip the way everything is going.
But nobody making music today remembers music as a universally low-paid job.
Interestingly most of our best music from that era is from people who were born before the phenomenon took root and didn't expect it.
Sorry, but Jimmi Hendrix was not as good a businessman as Taylor Swift.
Re: (Score:1, Troll)
Re: "Sorry, but Jimmi Hendrix was not as good a businessman as Taylor Swift." - Jimi Hendrix was an African American, born into poverty in a deeply, violently racist country, whereas Taylor Swift is a white daughter of bankers who's had every advantage afforded to her that money can buy. One changed the way everyone hears music for the rest of time, the other
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Nah.. Europe too...
"https://www.adzuna.co.uk/blog/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/Composers-UK.jpg"
Most musicians barely made a living throughout history. Below average income levels at every level from street performer, to hotel or bar musicians, to performers for wealthy people.
It was a hard life even in the U.S. with 200+ days a year away from home for modest wealth for 1 in a 1,000 musicians.
In China, it was very similar with low status and income for many musicians. A few musicians "kept" by wealthy nobl
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Okay, well patronage mainly applied to the "rock stars". Not to work-a-day musicians.
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I dunno, I consider Ghost Love Score, Lucretia My Reflection, and Alma Deutcher's When The Day Falls Into Darkness to be very good pieces of music.
Alma is unlikely to have the kind of career Mozarts did, and probably won't have the celebrity status hundreds of years later, but a century or so should be no sweat for her better pieces.
Nightwish and Sisters Of Mercy won't be as well known as BB King, 75 years later, but although BB King's name is known, his music is less well recognised. I have absolutely no d
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Being a musician was a poor life from 10,000BC until Elvis, roughly speaking.
We could move the limit slightly before that. Haendel (1685-1759) wrote in correspondence about the incredible amounts of money he was able to make when playing in London (I don't have a proper reference right now). Beethoven (1770-1827) is considered to be the first (successful) freelance musical artist https://artsandculture.google.... [google.com] , though Mozart (1756-1791) was also independent before him. Liszt (1811-1886) became hugely rich and famous (though he did not care the slightest about luxury) while touri
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Being a musician was a poor life from 10,000BC until Elvis, roughly speaking.
It seems like 1955-2025 will be seen as a 70-year blip the way everything is going.
But nobody making music today remembers music as a universally low-paid job.
Interestingly most of our best music from that era is from people who were born before the phenomenon took root and didn't expect it.
Sorry, but Jimmi Hendrix was not as good a businessman as Taylor Swift.
Your first line isn't completely true. Look up the court musicians during the time of Kings and Queens ruling most countries. Those were some pretty well-paid folks, compared to the normal peasantry at the time. I'm sure some cave-king probably had the equivalent, a dude that whistled to keep the man entertained, and got some extra scraps of meat for the privilege.
Good (Score:1)
Most modern music is garbage anyway.
Re:Good (Score:5, Insightful)
And my parents said the same thing about the music I listened to in the 90's
"I used to be with 'it', but then they changed what 'it' was. Now what I'm with isn't 'it' anymore and what's 'it' seems weird and scary. It'll happen to you!"
Re: Good (Score:2)
And my parents said the same thing about the music I listened to in the 90's
Butt Rock?
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If the only thing musically anyone got out of 90-99 was "butt rock" that says more about them.
Yes it was a golden time for butt rock but every decade has it's butt rock. That's like equating "I like music from the '70's" and thinking it's all disco.
Re: Good (Score:2)
Disco still sucks
https://youtube.com/watch?v=hj... [youtube.com]
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And my parents said the same thing about the music I listened to in the 90's
"I used to be with 'it', but then they changed what 'it' was. Now what I'm with isn't 'it' anymore and what's 'it' seems weird and scary. It'll happen to you!"
As did mine in the eighties. I just turned fifty last year, and I can find more good new music than I would ever have the time to listen to, but I do have to poke around a bit to find it. I have to wonder if some folks give up looking for new music, so all they ever hear is the thin-veneer pop that's on everywhere, all the time, so they assume "all new music is garbage."
Re: Garbage (Score:2)
Garbage https://www.garbage.com/ [garbage.com] is a great band.
Great songs and beautiful singer Shirley Manson.
Check out her late night appearances on that Craig Ferguson show https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]
Agree! (Score:1)
It's already over (Score:5, Insightful)
If you have no budget and are trying to make your first movie or game or whatever, you're going to use AI to remove the need for as many people as possible. As the AI tools improve, this will spread to bigger budget productions.
Machinima generated with only the highest level input from a human is the future, it's just a matter of time.
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Honestly, artistic jobs (arts, painting, photography, music, acting, etc) were NEVER a good job.
It's a bit of a sad outlook on humanity that we judge the goodness of something by nothing but it's profit potential when these are things that have contributed to human well being just as much as any technological feat.
People that can do this work are a dime a dozen
This is the hardest I have ever seen a non-artist cope about art and this is coming from someone who knows I don't have artistic skills. I haven't written any popular songs, have you?
If art was "easy" then so many more people than today would in fact do it but making something that actually
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Exactly. Artists of all types are going to have to find something else to use their talents for. There will probably be something they can do. Or maybe not and they can clean my bathroom.
Artists will always exist. I know it's a surprise to have this stated, but art is an inner drive for some people that can't be ignored. I get creative urges, and if I try to ignore those urges for too long, it actually starts to take a toll on my life. I can't concentrate, because whatever creation is trying to come out of me starts poking further and further into the forefront of my mind, even when I'm doing other things. I spend an hour or two pouring out words, or notes on a guitar or keyboard, and the c
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Maybe but right now I would say the big strike against it is there is an absolutely visceral negative reaction the to AI crowd that has been generated amongst the public to it's artistic products. The nature of art as a thing we all enjoy is the fact that it is a human expression. A big part of why we value it is the inherent human condition that underlies it's production. A painting coming out of the state of mind of the artist and their emotional state. An album coming in a perfect time with a certai
Re:It's already over (Score:4, Insightful)
>A big part of why we value it is the inherent human condition that underlies it's production. A painting coming out of the state of mind of the artist and their emotional state.
This is what people who are really into art say, but I'm pretty sure the common value of art is what it invokes in the viewer. AI is trained more or less the same way as a human, only faster. An artist has a lifetime of experience and practice, an AI has a few hours of training on (potentially millions of) curated examples.
There will come a time when you cannot tell the difference between a human and an AI when it comes to artistic output. And if you really need it, I'm sure whoever is presenting the AI's art to you will accompany it with a touching backstory as generated by yet another AI and you won't be able to tell the difference.
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is what it invokes in the viewer.
Correct and the context and time and creation of the art all plays into that.
AI has a few hours of training on (potentially millions of) curated examples.
And so far what we have seen it is it kinda incapable of expanding it's grasp past those prior examples.
"Shout" by the Isley Brother was influenced by the blues of the past but it essentially created an entire new genre, same for "Johnny B Goode".
Then The Beatles come along and were heavily influenced by those songs and artists and yet they took that and make a song like "Tommorow Never Knows" that implements so many new techniques
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>this is not something we should ideal to reach but something to fight against.
A wasted effort. It's happening, and will continue to happen.
Philosophers ought to be really happy right now, because everyone's about to get yet another kick in the groin teaching them just how 'not-special' humanity is... which is an opportunity to ask the really big questions about how and why we should live once the last of the things we thought made us special are shown to just be another trait.
I don't think the fact tha
I look forward... (Score:3)
...to Canadian AI musicians and actors and writers and ...
This unfortunately wont work out how they expect. (Score:2)
I support this in principle, as a musician and orchestral composer , musos are probably the most hard done by of all the creative professions. Streaming has absolutely destroyed the viability of music as a profession, and its an expensive game to get into. A good recording-quality guitar can set a musician back $2K and it only goes up from there. On top of the streaming has tanked the money a musician can get from recording. I *used* to be able to make $5k a year off iTunes and Amazon sales on music but alm
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Touring is back, which is great if your music is amenable to being performed in real time by humans. It's possible if to compose with the intent of being playable even if you sequenced it all, but that requires some working knowledge of each instrument involved, and a lot of genres just aren't amenable to that treatment.
I make (free) virtual instruments myself, and all of them I made for me first and foremost, so any knowledge of that instrument's performance is something I carry with me that may not get tr
Oh please stop it (Score:2)
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If I build you a kitchen, I could build the next family the exact same kitchen and you'd be none the wiser, and both your family and theirs would be equally pleased. You don't demand uniqueness, you demand competence and quality. When I write you a song, that's it, nobody else gets that song, and (at least within a genre) unique melodies are a finite resource. You're asking me to "burn" something unique for you, and make it available for your exclusive use, forever -- damn straight I expect to keep getting
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Actually you're wrong. If I ask you to design a unique kitchen specifically for me and I have it contractually set, you can't just use the same design of kitchen for someonelse. It's exactly the same with music for a movie/series, it all depends on the contract. If I ask you to create a unique music piece for a specific movie, then normally I pay you a hefty amount of money and we have it in contract I cannot use it for another movie (unless I pay you again). And let's not forget, go and listen to a lot of
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If you asked me to design your kitchen in a specific way, that's one thing. But perhaps I've worked on another house with the same floor plan as yours previously, and unbeknownst to you, I just recycle the plans I used the last time. If it looks good and works well, where's the problem? Your kitchen looked just like everyone else's when the house was new.
It would be different if we did get paid well up front, but that is exceptionally rare. I do agree that having to re-license the music for every format is
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and (at least within a genre) unique melodies are a finite resource.
musical compositions as commodities eh?
you wait (Score:2)
itll be the reddit moderators next