AIBO Robot Dog Soccer Competition 146
BrianWCarver writes "The Washington Post has an article about teams of college students who program Sony AIBO Robotic Dogs to play soccer against each other in teams of four. While Beckham's job is not yet jeopardized, the cool thing from an AI perspective is that 'once the humans flip the switch, the robots are on their own.' They compete in RoboCup whose stated goal is to 'by the year 2050,
develop a team of fully autonomous humanoid robots
that can win against the human world soccer champion team.' RoboCup also has competitions with wheeled soccer bots (of varying designs) and have a humanoid league in which the Honda ASIMO appeared. The students in the above article are preparing for the four-legged international championship coming up in July of 2003 in Padua, Italy."
Dupe! (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Dupe! (Score:2)
Well... (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Well... (Score:2)
Re:Well... (Score:1)
Aibo is only good for one thing... (Score:1, Funny)
Deja vu (Score:1)
Re:Deja vu (Score:2)
--one Sony Aibo speaking to another, circa 2015.
Solution to Earlier problem. (Score:5, Funny)
I think if they give up those big robots, buy some Aibos in bulk, they can skip the repair stage, or at least shorten it quite a bit. Of course, if they get them at Circuit City, they can get the extended guarantee and not have to worry about repairs at all!!!
---
Never call a man a fool; borrow from him.
Re:Solution to Earlier problem. (Score:5, Interesting)
And even if AI software is not progressing because of wasted time on robots, those robots are still useful. Can you really picture an Aibo bought "in bulk" beating humans at soccer?
Re:Solution to Earlier problem. (Score:1)
An artificial environment probably won't take you very far. I'm not sure if there are any well known humans who spent all their life in their room or house, but I doubt that be as creative and intelligent as those who could have a normal life.
Re:Solution to Earlier problem. (Score:1)
I'm offended!
I am just as creative and just as intelligent as your people that have a so-called `normal life'!
I'm going to go tell the leprechaun that lives in my wall about you, and he'll make you sorry you said bad things about my life-style! I recommend you start carrying an umbrella when you go to your so-called `o
Re:Solution to Earlier problem. (Score:3, Informative)
Incredibly enough, I used to work for a company that used to make robots (Nomadic Technologies) who is no longer in business, mainly because the owners hated competition.. and it was obvious why.
But back to the point... I have seen some amazing things done with robots and a little LISP programming. Robots working in conjunction with one another to acheive a common goal. And of course, the basic "learning of a laberynth", which is
Re:Solution to Earlier problem. (Score:1)
Also working to their advantage, steel skeletons will shatter brittle human bones with every tackle.
Re:Solution to Earlier problem. (Score:2)
I assume you're referencing Marvin Minsky's quote:
"The worst fad has been these stupid little robots...Graduate students are wasting 3 years of their lives soldering and repairing robots, instead of making them smart. It's really shocking."
Minsky's whining fails to take into account that different people have different int
Will there (Score:1)
Dont forget about R2 (Score:5, Funny)
Minsky was right (Score:2, Funny)
maybe, just maybe (Score:1, Flamebait)
Re:maybe, just maybe (Score:1)
Re:maybe, just maybe (Score:2)
Racing on the hand, now that's what I call boring!
"Hey, are they still going in a circle as fast as they can?"
"Yep."
"Yeehaw!"
Re:maybe, just maybe (Score:1)
Re:maybe, just maybe (Score:1)
Re:maybe, just maybe (Score:1)
Re:maybe, just maybe (Score:1)
World Cup by 2050? Bah! (Score:5, Funny)
When a humanoid soccer-playing machine can be developed such that a simple slide tackle (a legal maneuver) can snap limbs, the world cup is a sure bet. This will take far less than 47 years. In fact, drop the "humanoid" requirement and we could be there next year.
Sometimes there's an elegant beauty in simple brute force.
Re:World Cup by 2050? Bah! (Score:2)
My point; of course we have machines that can outperform humans, had em for a while. But they can only outperform us within very limited criteria.
for instance, a backhoe can dig much faster than I, but I don't think it can dig as precisely as I can. A car can go much faster than me, but not up a very steep rock face.
so I think the point of a robotic soccer game is to show a m
Uhh (Score:2)
Re:Uhh (Score:2)
Re:Uhh (Score:4, Funny)
Will they act like soccer players? (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Will they act like soccer players? (Score:2)
Yes but... (Score:2, Offtopic)
New Olympic Demonstration Sport (Score:2, Funny)
Couldn't they think of a game more exciting than Soccer? Or is this just the final indictment of this stultifying "sport" for people who can't afford a stick?
Wow... ambitious (Score:4, Insightful)
It would be very neat to see something like this happen, and I know 47 years is a long time, but it's still an incredibly ambitious goal
Re:Wow... ambitious (Score:1)
Re:Wow... ambitious (Score:2)
It would be very neat to see something like this happen, and I know 47 years is a long time, but it's still an incredibly ambitious goal
So, is your choice of words deliberate, or the result of subliminal suggestion?
Re:Wow... ambitious (Score:1)
Re:Wow... ambitious (Score:1)
Re:Wow... ambitious (Score:1)
Re:Wow... ambitious (Score:2)
"Solving" chess will require a radical departure from current algorithms, which are basically finite depth exhaustive searches plus heuristics to throw out le
Re:Wow... ambitious (Score:2)
However unlike trying to put together the perfect Human soccer team with the proper variables you can custom build the skills of the robots at will. IE nothing to stop having a team that can mimick all major styles of play and to effortlessly shift between them.
Physical capabilities need not
Re:Wow... ambitious (Score:1)
Re:Wow... ambitious (Score:1)
Top 7 Reasons to like Robot Dog Soccer (Score:5, Funny)
6. The moment when the goaltender says "Danger, Will Robinson!" is priceless.
5. Lots of fun game play alterations when robot bones are tossed onto the field.
4. Only a matter of time before they allow Taz-Bot, Die-Sector, Vlad, and the rest of our Battlebots friends onto the field. Then the fun really starts.
3. Gets rid of the problem of urination on the field that is plagues any event with real soccer players or real dogs.
2. Americans love dogs. Americans hate soccer. So, this is likely to move soccer from #74 to #63 on the ESPN-2 ratings.
1. Two words: Mecha-Aibo
Re:Top 7 Reasons to like Robot Dog Soccer (Score:1)
No damn it, that will just be more competetion for the NHL playoffs at #61, right behind billiard trick shots and the national spelling bee.
Re:Top 7 Reasons to like Robot Dog Soccer (Score:1)
The sports media is controlled by sports writers who only understand the so called major sports they grew up with. The MLS which is still not a mature league gets 100,000+ people per week at their games. The US national team is ranked 10th in the world, FIFA World Ranking [fifa.com]
US players piss on the field? yuk! (Score:2)
yukkkkkk!
US football (soccer) players urinate on the pitch during games? "(Gets rid of the problem of urination on the field that is plagues any event with real soccer players )"... No wonder football (soccer) isn't popular in the USA. I never understood why the beautiful game wasn't as popular there as in the rest of the world, now I understand. Uggg.
First they play soccer autonomously, ... (Score:2)
long tradition (Score:4, Interesting)
From this article [robotbooks.com]:
"This year's challenge was to build soccer-playing robots. An unfortunate choice perhaps, given the possibility of confusion between RoboCon and RoboCup. The latter is another Japanese-inspired initiative, whose goal is also to build soccer-playing robots (Australasian, 30 August 1997). But there are clear differences between the two. RoboCon is based on mechanics, whereas RoboCup is more electrical, being mainly to do with communications and software. Also RoboCup robots are completely autonomous. (RoboCon robots) are remote controlled."
Interesting quote (Score:3, Insightful)
So what they've done is end up with looser play and lower hit rates as opposed to higher accuracy. That's fine for winning a soccer tournament (and please understand -- I'm by no means discounting the incredible coolness of what's going on here), but how would this translate in the real world?
Here's something even more cool to think about...just imagine if you could program the dogs to adapt their style of play over the course of the tournament (learning) and then observe if they "naturally" tended to this style of play in any case.
Hey wait a second (Score:2)
What was really cool... (Score:1)
Sweet day at CMU, I'd say.
um, not cheating = "cool"? (Score:5, Insightful)
How else do you hold an "AI robot" contest? Humans mucking about with the things is called cheating. If they get disabled or whatnot, of COURSE they should be left alone.
I hate robot/AI contests which are dumbed down- watch a robot 'soccer' match, and often you'll see volunteers putting robots back on the right course when they've boxed themselves into a corner and such...like the programmers/designers shouldn't have to be 'troubled' by such things as getting trapped by two walls, or all the contestants have such miserably designed/programmed robots that they fail left and right.. Everyone wants to work on the "chase the ball" routine, but nobody wants to work on the un-sexy, nuts-and-bolts, "keep from smacking the wall and staying there" routine.
In the real world, there are no magical hands that pick you up and flip you around and set you going with a pat on the CPU...and what every robotics person calls "simplifying the problem", I call "cheating". This constant cheating has led to a field which is incapable, still, of dealing with the simplest problems but can solve these wonderful complex ones. The result is a lot of electromechanical garbage that's simply unuseable in anything even remotely resembling the real world.
Re:um, not cheating = "cool"? (Score:2)
For a long time, your parents set you upright with a pat on the head everytime you fell while learning to walk, and you had the benefit of millions of years of evolution designing a body and brain nearly hardwired to walk.
I think you dramatically underestimate how much harder avoiding "turtle on back" failure modes is than chasing the ball (or playing soccer, or any other game with a well defined set of rules). To do it well probably requires an array of sensors compra
Re:um, not cheating = "cool"? (Score:2)
What's so amazing with kids is their relentless passion of exploring and lear
Re:um, not cheating = "cool"? (Score:1)
RoboCup is still "just getting started". it takes alot of resourses/time/money to build a working system, and we want to ENCOURAGE new teams to enter, not discourage them.
there are many other rules that would be implemented if this weren't the case. Full autonomy is a biggie. there are other ones such as rules on touching and so fourth.
-sergei/Cornell BigRed'
Automate the World! (Score:2, Funny)
1. Create robotic soccer dogs
2. Replace human athletes
3. ?
4. Profit!
Re:Automate the World! (Score:2)
Top 10 Robot Soccer Dog Team Names (Score:5, Funny)
9. Dyna-Mutts
8. Cyberpups
7. WinterMalaMutes
6. FIDO-Net
5. 3L33T T3RR313R's
4. The B-9 K-9's
3. See-Threepoodle's
2. The Borgzoi
1. BITches
Re:Top 10 Robot Soccer Dog Team Names (Score:2)
Let's try:
FC Bayern Robots
AC Milan Three-legs
Real Poodles
Paris St All-These-Dogs-Are-For-Sale
--Flam
Obligatory Pun (Score:2)
How soon will we see the "Robot-Coupe," (Fr. kitchen appliance, pron. Ro-bo-Koop') in which the losing team gets tossed into a Cuisinart?
Story earlier today (Score:2)
Is it just me, or... (Score:2)
Something more along the lines of 'AMEE' from that awful movie "Red Planet," perhaps...only not psychotic.
Ironic (Score:3, Interesting)
football (offtopic) (Score:1)
Why can't people agree to use that name in international context, and call the american game "american football", although in it the ball is moved around (AFAIK) mostly with hands?
Re:football (offtopic) (Score:1)
Re:It is called SOCCER (Score:1)
Look at it this way. There are several different sports already competing for the word "football" (and most of them are not soccer!) It is quite confusing to try and also call soccer "football".
In contrast, there is only one soccer, so why not call it that?
In Italy, the game is known as "calcio". In Argentina they call it "pellota", AFAIK. In the US/Canada it is called "soccer". Fine, different countries, different names. Internationally, however, the game is known as football. It
Robocop. (Score:2)
A similar competition (Score:4, Interesting)
It was interesting because not only did you have to develop the AI to allow the robots to 'play the game', but you also had to develop a computer colour vision system to 'read' the state of play, as well as a suitable control system for the robots themselves. The use of H bridges and avoiding burning out the motors or circuitry when suddenly reversing direction brought in some interesting research from the university's mechanical engineering department. Wireless comms also came into it, with a one-way FM link. A great project bringing many different areas into one 'arena'.
FIRA has several different classes of competition (we were working towards Mirosot) including a 'simulation only' class.
Re:A similar competition (Score:1)
The second paragraph is a necessity for any robot soccer-system of this type. For wireless, some SS
They'll need a little programming (Score:2)
Sure they'll need some basic programming to be made autonomous but judging from a lot of what I've seen of professional soccer these robots [robotwars.com] should be able to give a human team a pretty good game!
Robot Dog Soccer (Score:2, Funny)
I was there (Score:3, Insightful)
According to the lead researcher (the lady in the left in the picture), the dogs communicate with each other on their position and the location of the ball. You could see some cooperation in their actions, but not much. They would sometimes spend some time deciding who would go for the ball, but I never saw anything like a coordinated pass on a breakaway.
They don't yet track the opposing players, and got too easily hung up on obstructions, like the corner of the goal. A dribbling player would stop every couple of steps, look around to check the location of the corner posts, and lose the ball.
In terms of soccer play, the smaller, wheeled league was much more impressive. The single camera gave the team a comprehensive view of the field, ball, and opposing players. Every robot had an arrangement of colored dots on top to identify the player and it's position. The players were fast (probably a 1-2 second dash from one end of the field to the other), and were effective at dribbling (with a spinning bar that spun the golf ball toward the robot) and shooting (with a kick bar).
There was not a lot of depth to the competition. The 3rd-4th place consolation game consisted of a whole lot of nothing going on. Hopefully, more schools will get involved for future research.
Re:I was there (Score:1)
You're right about the small league being more exciting, though. The dogs really can't do anything, but if you watch two good teams in the small league, you'll see a much better, more human game.
Trouble brewing... (Score:2)
Re: Trouble brewing... (Score:2, Funny)
> What if those soccer robots develope their own conscience, start killing the humans
I think you mean "consciousness". If they develop a "conscience" then they'll behave OK.
> and send a robot back to the past to kill the leader of the human resistance?
No problem: we'll just appoint the guy who invented them to be the leader of the human resistance.
But... (Score:2)
this is just the kind of nonsense (Score:1)
Robot Soccer's Boring! (Score:3, Funny)
The couple of robot battle shows Comedy Central and Discovery ran a while back were boring because the robots weren't autonomous. Any hardware monkey can make a remote controlled killing machine. Autonomous ones would be way more interesting! And if they just happened to go mad and start killing the audience, well that just makes it more interesting, doesn't it?
I think I must be channeling Professor Farnsworth...
Re:Robot Soccer's Boring! (Score:1, Funny)
Dupe! (Score:1)
Here. [slashdot.org]
soccer playing AIBO vs my soccer playing poodle (Score:1)
Aibo - Software Development (Score:1)
For those of you who would like to do research with real world data, but don't want to spend time actually building the robot before you can use it - the Aibo is a great platform.
There's a free software development kit from Sony [aibo.com] as well as an application framework [tekkotsu.org] to get you jump-started.
Whelled robots have been replaced by omni (Score:2)
Re:Whelled robots have been replaced by omni (Score:1)
a) our defense was not tested
b) we had not offense
c) our vision was messed up (old 2002 vision...)
we promise a much better showing at italy
-sergei
Aaaaarrggghh! (Score:3, Funny)
------
Reprogramming the AIBO (Score:2)
Very cool stuff.
The Matrix machines (Score:2)
Who peels the Oranges? (Score:1)
Irrational behaviour and emotions? (Score:1)
what I want (Score:1)
AIBO programming for hobbyists (Score:2, Informative)
Honda ASIMO? (Score:2)
Honda ASIMO-V should be really cool.
New Korean gear runs rings around Aibo (Score:2)
Reasonably interesting stuff, granted, but the really funny bit was the big-screen demo movie they had running on the stand. A little robot built out of some of these things and a controller board dragging a big pink Aibo ball around, ta
Sony is hosting OPEN-R seminar (Score:1)
Lookee here [aibo.com].
Re:Against G0D (Score:1)
You've never seen a Linux Users Group have you?