New Heinlein Novel 460
book_reader writes "It's hard to believe but the grand master of sci-fi is back - 15 years or so after his death. His first novel that he wrote in the mid 30's and long since thought lost was rediscovered and will be coming out in November! The thought of a novel he wrote so early in his writing career boggles my mind but who will be able to resist - not I!"
Who? (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Who? (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Who? (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Who? (Score:3, Insightful)
-B
And that would be bad how? (Score:3, Insightful)
I hope and pray Heinlen doesn't turn into the 'Tu-Pac' of geeks (i.e. ends up having 30 or more works 'discovered').
I'd prefer to hope and pray that he does.
Without any familiarity whatsoever with the work of "Tu-Pac", I'll state for the record that if someone were to find a box of unpublished Heinlein stuff (say, 20 or 30 shorts, or maybe a handful of novels), it would be a very wonderful thing for Science Fiction, certainly far better than the entire 2 seasons of ST:Enterprise has been.
You see what
Re:Who? (Score:5, Insightful)
But for those of you who don't know, Heinlein was a master Science Fiction writer, who wrote many famous books, such as "Starship Troopers", "Stranger in a strange land", "The moon is a harsh mistress", etc. I think he wrote over a hundred works. IMHO one of the top 5 science fiction authors of all time
Here is a listing of all his published materials [nitrosyncretic.com], for those who are interested.
And for those who only saw "Starship Troopers" and never read the book, PLEASE don't judge the author by the movie, because that movie was truly horrendous.
Re:Who? (Score:4, Interesting)
I'm excited as all get out about this, I've read everything else he ever published, and I think I have at least one copy of everything, even the hard-to-find Notebooks of Lazarus Long booklet. I'm really curious to see how this stacks up with his other early work, like "Have Spacesuit, Will Travel", "Space Cadet", etc. Have Spacesuit was the first sci-fi book I ever read, and it got me hooked at an early age.
The fact that Spider Robinson is involved puts my mind at ease. He was good friends, and a great admirer of Heinlein, and I can't see him doing anything that would disgrace RAH.
The movie was great (Score:4, Interesting)
You have the enjoy the movie for what it is, a silly sci-fi movie with really cool bugs.
I mean, how do you make a movie about a book and mock the ideals of the book?
I see them as two completely unrelated works that both stand on their own merits.
If you ever wanted to see a commentary on Vietnam set in space, you should see the movie.
Besides, it has Doogie Howser as a Nazi general!
Would you like to know more?
Alex
Re:Who? (Score:4, Insightful)
I though the movie conveyed the harsh irony of war and idealism very well. In fact, the movie was very painful to watch, because some of the scenes gutted much of what people believe in. Perhaps the movie was much better than the viewers percieved, because most viewers expect some typical hack-n-slach-hero-gets-the-bitch flick.
"Babe" (yes the pig) was another movie that comes to mind, where childhood is so accurately depicted that I (an adult, I hope) could barely watch it. Of course, I can't not be reminded of Ender Wiggins at this point...ah crap.
Moderators _still_ smoking crack, I see..... (Score:4, Insightful)
I'd call that +1 Insightful
"I Will Fear No Evil" was written while he was dog sick, and completed by his wife and agent IIRC.
I also keep thinking of him in comparison to Hubbard;
L. Ron set out to design and build a religion, bent all his imagination and creativity to the purpose, and succeeded.
Well, for a value of "success" amounting to a pretty crappy excuse for a church [xenu.com].
RAH "merely" wrote stories, and accidentaly created at least 1 religion, and improved many peoples lives along the way.
I'd point out the Hubbard likely got the religion idea from one of RAH's offhand remarks.
_Overrated_!?! At +1?
Time to go metamoderate.
they're back! (Score:2, Funny)
Re:they're back! (Score:2, Funny)
I, for one, welcome our new libertarian overlor-HEY!
Re:they're back! (Score:2)
Re:they're back! (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:they're back! (Score:2)
Since it was written it 1938, that doesn't follow. (Also, I dont recall any "alien" sex, just lots of hetero, and occasionally homo, and a little pedo.)
However, according to the FA, it was spiked becasue it was "too racy" for the staid 30s. If so, and that's not just marketing (instead of "too immature"), the I'll have to reconsider my opinion. I'd thought
Re:they're back! (Score:3, Informative)
My broad rule for Heinlein: If it's bigger than - or written after - I Will Fear No Evil - it's unreadable in ways only someone struggling through Hubbard's dekalogy would understand. If it's written before that, then if it's a kids' book it's good, if it's a short story it's probably great, and if it's The Moon is a Harsh Mistress, it's one of the finest science fiction novels around.
Must do up a flowchart.
My thoughts on this (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:My thoughts on this (Score:3, Funny)
It's a dirty book.
Re:My thoughts on this (Score:5, Informative)
The review is pretty interesting, and I think I'd like to read it just to see what they are talking about. Morbid curiosity maybe?
Re:My thoughts on this (Score:2)
Bad, no. Confusing, yes. (Score:2)
Re:My thoughts on this (Score:2, Funny)
Re:My thoughts on this (Score:5, Insightful)
Everything after "The Moon Is A Harsh Mistress" kind of sucked, IMHO. Once he got so into the whole sex/polyamory thing as a constant focus, I just lost interest. He actually managed to make sex boring to me, which is really saying something. Yeah, OK, Lazarus Long has slept with everyone and their mother... yeah, wonderful, free love is awesome, whatever.
I actually heard Heinlein was kind of pissed about how his works inspired the poly crowd, but I don't see what *else* he was intending to say in all these books. I mean, just off the top of my head -- Friday, The Number of the Beast, The Cat Who Walks Through Walls, Time Enough For Love -- all of these books were soured for me by what seemed like constant, totally unerotic sex. In "Friday", it was almost mechanical... boring.
(Yes, I know someone will post a page-count vs. sex acts ratio to try to convince me otherwise, but I don't care).
[ ObSenselessRant: Oh yeah, and Piers Anthony is a dirty old man. "Bio of A Space Tyrant" sucked once he got into the hero having consensual sex with a 12 year old. That coupled with Xanth novels titled "The Color of Her Panties" makes me want to have authorities monitoring his shack in Florida... ]
Re:My thoughts on this (Score:5, Interesting)
Of course, I am a semi-rabid Heinlein fan, so I have to say that... don't I? What can I say? I grew up reading his books and they had a profound impact on me. I never really took him as condoning polyamorism or incest, but merely showing that sexual "tastes" were culturally based patterns of behaviour. Asimov did the same thing with some of his Robot/Foundation books (societies where no one knew who their children were, so the concept of incest became unimportant, etc.).
Re:My thoughts on this (Score:3, Informative)
Re:My thoughts on this (Score:5, Funny)
Re:What a whiny little twit you are. (Score:3, Funny)
I make no judgements either way. Both "movements" went too far in their respective directions. Both have their zealots, who really ought to be shot.
Funny thing is, back in college, there was this group of people I hung with, and these girls were like all googly over Heinlein, and how great his books were, and said th
I hate this kind of stuff (Score:4, Interesting)
Free as a Bird [amazon.com] anyone?
How much material has Tupac released since he died?
And all that crap that Tolkien's son claimed he wrote to make some money
Why, why, why do this to Heinlein as well?
Add the "Dune Lite" books to that list... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:I hate this kind of stuff (Score:5, Insightful)
As to the Tolkein stuff, some was well worth posthumous publication (Silmarillion, Book of Lost Tales, etc.), but they did end up going waaaay overboard.
Maybe this will be good (Score:4, Insightful)
What editor? If you read the top, it was published with only minor spelling corrections. This is similar to the tack that was taken with 2 other works after his death. They were re-published the way HE wrote them, not the way they were first published.
Spider Robinson was a friend of his, and if he has some say in the matter (he did one of the forwards for this book), then it ought to maintain some integrity.
Mark me down as optimistic until I get a chance to review it. Most of his "so-called" hack work is better then 90% of today's writers anyway.
Re:I hate this kind of stuff (Score:2, Interesting)
Newly discovered works of long-since-gone authors may be invaluable sources to other people from scholars to fans. Would you ban the publishing of a "book" written by a scribe in the ancient Egypt? Or the new opera by Mozart that no-one knew about?
You don't have to buy Christopher Tolkien's publications, either, but someone might just love to see just one more glimpse into Middle Earth that J.R.R. wrote in the corner of some notebook page.
Oops (Score:2)
Oy, that's too bad. *shake*
Re:Oops (Score:2)
A few years ago (Score:4, Informative)
Rich
This sort of thing makes me puke (Score:3, Insightful)
Simply getting more of an artist's work is NOT necessarily a good thing. For instance, I got a hold of a bootleg of a bunch of old Pixies studio sessions. The stuff they released is good, but you know what?
The stuff they didn't release is crap. They wrote bad songs, recognized them as bad songs, and DIDN'T release them. There's a reason that stuff stays in the attic, and fans should be able to respect that, IMHO.
Re:This sort of thing makes me puke (Score:2)
Also: "Earnings will be going to the advancement of human exploration of space."
Re:This sort of thing makes me puke (Score:2)
Think of it as a DVD extra (Score:2, Insightful)
If you take it in context, I think it adds a lot to appreciation of a subject. But its like an audio commentary, if you don
Re:This sort of thing makes me puke (Score:2, Insightful)
oh, and btw, if the
Re:This sort of thing makes me puke (Score:3, Insightful)
An artist's own opinion is not always the best one to decide whether something is worth publishing.
Re:This sort of thing makes me puke (Score:3, Insightful)
In fact he was addressing this very issue. His point was that 90% of everything was crap, specifically the output of good writers.
The primary difference between a good writer and hack being that the good writer only publishes the 10% worth publishing.
KFG
Re:This sort of thing makes me puke (Score:4, Interesting)
Releasing posthumous or 'early' material is a common enough practice in the arts that we should learn to look forward to it. If anything it gives diehard fans and scholars a chance to see beyond what the artist deemed acceptable or beyond what publishers at the time deemed acceptable.
That said, I've never read any Heinlein and want to know what a good book is of his to start with. I've just been getting into Asimov and George RR Martin lately and am looking forward to reading another great SciFi author. How does Heinlein compare to Asimov?
Heinlein books to start out with. (Score:4, Informative)
Most of his books are quite good, particularly the "Heinlein juveniles." The science is dated now in many cases, but they're great reads. Personal favorites include The Door into Summer, Citizen of the Galaxy, Starman Jones and The Past Through Tomorrow.
Many feel that Heinlein's later books, after 1966, aren't nearly as good. They certainly get more self-indulgent and cheezy. To start out with, I would avoid the following books, because they're not really indicative of most of his work: I Will Fear No Evil, Time Enough For Love, The Number of the Beast, Friday, Job: A Comedy of Justice, The Cat Who Walks Through Walls and To Sail Beyond the Sunset.
Jon Acheson
Never say never... (Score:5, Funny)
Heinlein's got another book...
Celine Dion came out of retirement...
Cher had her comeback tour...
I'd given up waiting for a sequel of "From Justin to Kelly" but this story has nenewed my hope!
His last novels were ghosted anyway.... (Score:2, Insightful)
We discussed this at TorCon... (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:We discussed this at TorCon... (Score:3, Interesting)
I tend to suspect that if you go to your local book store in November and December, you can easily find books that are far racier than this book will be/was.
I suspect that even in comparison to Glory Road, The Moon is a Harsh Mistress, and Strnager in a Strange Land, this will be considered tame. Then again I haven't read it yet, so I don't know.
I agree with point 1, though
Um, yeah, I've got one too (Score:2, Funny)
I found it down the back of a sofa that I bought from the ex wife of the cousin of the guy that fixed the car of Heinlein's dentist's cleaning lady.
You can have it for a million bucks. I'll donate the money to, uh, space or something.
He's back! (Score:3, Funny)
I'll bet he smells kind of bad.
For Us, the Living (Score:5, Funny)
From the 30's... (Score:4, Funny)
Re:From the 30's... (Score:2)
And the cover [heinleinsociety.org] really looks like a period piece too -- but not in a good way.
Scudder (Score:3, Interesting)
"Heinleins . . . detroyed all the copies . . ."? (Score:2, Interesting)
Opinions are free, they're just not easy.
Re:"Heinleins . . . detroyed all the copies . . ." (Score:5, Interesting)
Er, "Stranger" and "Job" were both from the late phase of his career. The early phase consisted of "Have Spacesuit Will Travel", "Red Planet", "The Rolling Stones", "Starman Jones", "The Starbeast", "Citizen of the Galaxy", "Farnham's Freehold", "The Puppet Masters", "Tunnel in the Sky", "Starship Troopers" and so on. All of those novels were targeted at the "young adolescent" of the time, but were still entertaining, thought provoking stuff. They also included enough hard science to be dangerous.
His later phase, which began around the time of "Glory Road" and "The Moon is a Harsh Mistress" (now THAT should be made into a movie;), was more adult oriented and controversial - still with a stiff dose of plausibility and real science.
Say what you like about Heinlein and his social ideas, but fundamentally he was a freedom lover who wanted nothing so much as to see humanity grow up and move beyond the nest. He also had the ideas for several inventions including the waterbed and the "waldo" (remote manipulators used with hazardous materials). Very few of those who bash him have made a similar contribution to society.
I'm sure I'll read his "new" novel with quite a bit of enjoyment, whatever the quality of the work. :-)
Burn Your Trunk! (Score:5, Interesting)
Most writers do not sell their first novel (or even their second and third). What they finally do sell is the novel that they have grown into by the practice of writing their previous works. Those previous novels are not up to par with what they finally do sell. Better advice then given to new novelists is "burn your trunk". 'Trunk' refers to all the writing you've done before you finally sell something. It is not up to the standards of what you are now able to produce and publishing it will lower the public's perception of your current talent.
I strongly suspect that this 'new' Heinlein novel is Heinlein's trunk. Likely he never had it published because he himself subscribed to the advice that one's trunk should be burned.
I will buy the book none the less, because Heinlein was by far the novelist who was the most influential on me in my youth. I will consciously remember while reading it though that this is his very first novel, something written in the thirties and not a book that he wanted published because he felt it to be inferior to what he was subsequently capable of.
Re:Burn Your Trunk! (Score:3, Interesting)
I see the reason for advising new writers to discard their old, unsold, sub-par beginning works. It would be far too tempting during a bout of writer'
Re:Burn Your Trunk! (Score:3, Interesting)
True, circa 1980. Now, post Pratchett and Potter, you write the first three novels of a series before even approaching a publisher, and you offer them outlines and options on at least four more.
Publishers don't sell books any more, they sell authors and series.
Re:Burn Your Trunk! (Score:4, Interesting)
Or likely you and everyone else like you don't know enough about the situation to be opening your mouths. The linked article [heinleinsociety.org] said A) the book is good, and B) no publisher would publish it because it was too racy for the morals of the 1930s. Is there something complicated about reading the article?
I normally don't care that no one reads the damn article, as it makes for some fun discussion. But it seems like every highly moderated post today is spouting the same sort of theory that for some reason the book must be bad, and for basically the same reason, that Heinlein "didn't bother to publish it", when the facts are that he sent it around to various publishers and they refused to publish it. Everyone here seems to assume they know what happened and why. Well, according to the article, you're all wrong. Moderators, please read the article [heinleinsociety.org] before moderating.
way behind hubbard, toklein and asimov (Score:5, Informative)
The above list doesn't include continuations of earlier novels authorized by these authors estates. There have been a dozen of those. Herbert is the most prolific with the 5th New Dune novel due out next week and eight more planned.
Re:way behind hubbard, toklein and asimov (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:way behind hubbard, toklein and asimov (Score:2)
I'm pretty sure I have a complete Heinlein collection, and I also have several variants of each novel. Almost all are from used books stores, and I've never sun
Hemingway and Dickinson (Score:3, Informative)
And Emily Dickinson's complete works weren't published until after she'd snuffed it.
I'll be buying. (Score:4, Interesting)
My hat's off to the cranky old Grand Master who still makes me all sniffly at the end of Stranger in a Strange Land, almost 10 years after I read it the first time. Where can I place a pre-order?
-Carolyn
Re:I'll be buying. (Score:5, Insightful)
Given that you're a fan overall, I can't be too hard on you. ;-)
However, I'd suggest that Heinlein wasn't "chauvinistic", just that he celebrated the differences between men and women (which any sane individual recognizes, no?).
Heinlein's women piloted starships, fought alongside the men in battle, and generally bested the males involved in most situations. Given that a lot of those writings appeared in the 50's, I think he should be recognized as one of the most progressive proponents of women's equality (superiority?) of the 20th Century.
I realize some of his writings may lead in other directions ;-) but hey you have have to look at the overall picture... :-)
Vive la difference! (Score:5, Insightful)
1) Certainly most of Heinlein's female characters are as competent as the male ones, but the air of "don't you worry your pretty little head" that so many of his mouthpiece characters have, especially in his earlier works, drives me batty. "Sure, she can pilot a starship and shoot the center out of the ace of spades at 50 paces, and isn't it cute? She'll meet the right man one day and settle down, and then she won't have to because he'll take care of her."
2) There's also Heinlein's assumption that gender roles are as they should be--this was his opinion, and I strongly disagree with it, but overall it didn't detract much from his writing.
3) Finally, a lot of his female characters break under the slightest pressure and start crying. His male characters never do. Especially in the Future History, where sexuality and gender identity is supposed to be androgynous, this bothers me. Even Galahad in Time Enough for Love, (the most sympathetic portrayal an effeminate man ever got in Heinlein) never cries.
I can ignore sexism in most of the authors of Heinlein's generation and earlier (*coughAsimovcough*), but Heinlein himself was just so progressive in everything else that a lot of his gender politics show up as glaring flaws, when they would just fade into the background in works by other writers. Writers shouldn't have to be politically correct, and Heinlein was perfectly justified in coloring his stories with his opinion, but I find that it tempers my enjoyment of his works.
-Carolyn
Re:I'll be buying. (Score:3, Interesting)
Heinlein is one of those authors who made science fiction. His chauvinism occasionally sets my teeth on edge, and his later works are preachy, but these are small blemishes on the body of work of a man, who above everything else, knew how to tell a story.
Carolyn, your comments are somewhat valid to Heinlein the writer, but Heinlein the man was somewhat different:
Robert Heinlein Biography [nitrosyncretic.com]
July 20, 1969, is probably the most important day in human history - the day men from Earth first s
OMG OMG OMG (Score:2, Informative)
IMHO, The Moon Is A Harsh Mistress" is the ultimate Sci-Fi novel and he singlehandedly raised the bar so that Science Fiction wasn't simply regarded as pulp. Many people were inspired by his words and foresight. He contributed many revolutionary concepts and provided so many hours of entertainment that even the thought of anything new is interesting in the extreme.
bad, bad science (Score:2)
Bad science doesn't hurt good writing (Score:2)
more Heinlein movies? (Score:2)
Any more Heinlein novels to be movies?
My favorit: "Have Spacesuit, Will Travel" (Score:2)
Re:My favorit: "Have Spacesuit, Will Travel" (Score:2)
-T
Writer Robert Heinlein found alive at 96 (Score:2)
Nevermind.
KFG
Another (not so rosy) view of Heinlein (Score:3, Interesting)
Heinlein Happens [enter.net], by by Earl Kemp
It's a scathing expose of the "dark side" of Robert Heinlein, painting him as a Hugh Hefner wannabe with an ego the size of a god's, masking an inner insecurity the size of the Grand Canyon. It's hard to tell, though, how accurate Kemp's descriptions are, since he's writing from the POV of one of Heinlein's "disremembered" -- close friends who p***ed off the artist and were removed from his list of people worth acknowledging.
I'm curious how much is true, how much is exaggerated, and how much is just made up. I figure this is the place to ask!
As far as the literary side of the man... I've been a fan since I read "The Moon Is A Harsh Mistress" as a kid in the late '70s. The "Future History" stuff left me cold, but "Job" was a great return to form. The last Heinlein book I read (shamefully long ago) was the restored "Podkayne of Mars", with the original (downer) ending.
I haven't seen the "Puppet Masters" movie... and from what I've heard, I'm probably better off for it.
Asimov talks about him a bit... (Score:2)
Not a huge discussion, but you get the impression of Heinlein as a brilliant but flawed personality. He was the first sci-fi I ever read, though, and will always occupy that niche, whatever his personal failings.
Re:Another (not so rosy) view of Heinlein (Score:2)
The grandmaster? (Score:3, Insightful)
It's hard to believe but the grand master of sci-fi is back
The only person deserving to be be called that is Isaac Asimov [wikipedia.org], publishing over 500 volumes of the best science fiction to date. Not to say that other writers (Heinlein, Lem, Strugatsky) didn't write good stuff in the same "league", but not with the same consistent quality in those amounts.
Proceeds go to space exploration? (Score:2, Insightful)
"The other bonus is another gift to us. The money earned by this novel will be going to directly and substantially support Heinlein's dream, and the dream we, Heinlein's Children, share. Earnings will be going to the advancement of human exploration of space. When you purchase "For Us, the Living" you are also contributing, in a real and meaningful way, the furtherment of this dream. Yet again, Heinlein 'pays it forward.'"
Imho is particularly cool. As cool as a new book by RAH.
Not just Grumbles from the Grave, eh? (Score:2)
Everyone who thinks they're "fans" should go read "Grumbles From the Grave". I think it would give them all a much better perspective about their cherished entertainer.
What makes a fan a fan... (Score:3, Insightful)
Of course it isn't going to be any good.
Of course I'm going to read it.
People who say "his earlier stuff is better than his later stuff" are thinking of the forties and fifties,when he really hit his stride. His earliest stuff reads all too much like "Doc" Smith, to my way of thinking.
I don't expect very much from this, but it will be nice to have it.
Randite (Score:3, Interesting)
I wonder if Heinlein had seen Rand's novel when he chose that title, "For Us, The Living".
Plausible... however (Score:3, Interesting)
I can believe this was a coincidence however when I had my only personal encounter with Heinlein, it was disputing priority on the title "High Frontier" on a book by his associate General Danny Graham. Heinlein insisted that
I'd buy that for a quarter! (Score:3, Interesting)
It's in Robocop, but I think it's also in "The Roads Must Roll". I think Dick used it as well.
Any sci-fi scholars want to answer?
Re:I'd buy that for a quarter! (Score:3, Informative)
Check the short story out... well worth it.
According to Jerry Pournelle... (Score:5, Informative)
Re:According to Jerry Pournelle... (Score:3, Informative)
Re:According to Jerry Pournelle... (Score:3, Interesting)
Just because an author "wished" a work would still be under his control after his death, does not mean he should really have a right to such and expectation.
An author is not living up to his end of the bargain, the bargain with the people that allowed writing to have possibilities of making an income for the author in the first place, and he is in fact violating the whole spirit of copyright when he tries to control his work
Public domain? (Score:3, Informative)
Now I would guess that they probably did register it, unless they were unaware of this little-known quirk in the copyright law. But I find it interesting this quirk exists, and probably a huge number of unpublished works became public domain at the beginning of this year.
Most Prolific Dead Author (Score:5, Funny)
Two things odd about this (Score:3, Interesting)
First, they say this novel was written before Heinlein's first published SF short story. It's been a while since I've read any Heinlein biographical material, but I thought the story (no pun intended) was that Heinlein read about a contest for amateur stories, wrote one, decided to submit it to a magazine instead, was accepted, and basically said "Whoa...how long has THIS easy way to make money been around?" and was off and running.
For him to have an unpublished novel from before this would mean that he was trying to be a writer before he did that first short. Furthermore, it would mean he was trying to start with novels, which is much harder. It was far better to break into the field with short stories in the magazines than to start with novels (especially since there really wasn't a market for SF outside the magazines). If Heinlein was actually planning on being a writer, I find it very hard to believe that he would not have researched the field.
Second, the novel being unpublishable in its day because of racy content does not strike me as very Heinlein-like. Sure, some people consider Heinlein's later works to be overly concerned with sex, but that at least made sense, both in the context of the times, and in the context of Heinlein's personal situation at the time. It would make no sense for him to be starting out with a racy novel--one so racy that it could not be published. (And, back to the first point, I have a hard time believing Heinlein would not know exactly what the limits were, and stay on the publishable side...he does not strike me as the kind of man who would go to the effort of writing an unpublishable novel)
It was too racy to send by mail... (Score:3, Interesting)
What was that people are saying about the erosion of our rights today?
Re:So is it Public Domain? (Score:2, Informative)
Re:No (Score:3, Informative)
Re:So is it Public Domain? (Score:4, Informative)
Re:So is it Public Domain? (Score:3, Funny)
shh, your wake up SCO.
Re:This isn't another homosexual sodomy romp is it (Score:4, Funny)
Heinlein was into incestuous consensual patriarchal discipline dom-sum fetishism, fool!
Wait, I might be thinking about Stephen R. Donaldson. Which one sets their daddy-daughter fucking in rocketships?
Re:ST theme became clear the other day (Score:2)
Re:ST theme became clear the other day (Score:5, Informative)
Oh please. He got his soon-to-be-wife pregnant so he could claim a sole-provider exemption from the draft during Vietnam. When you look up chickenhawk, Cheney is the example picture. He's quite willing to send someone else's son into battle, but when his ass was on the line he chickened out. Not to mention that we know how the SecDef puts his life on the line all of the time (cf Robert McNamara).
A partial list of Vietnam-eligible Bush advisers who were granted deferments:
In all fairness, I will point out that William Jefferson Clinton was also a draft dodger. Of course, it was a bad thing when he did it, but only understandable when a Republican did it.