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Toys Hardware

Build Your Own Segway 257

Posted by michael from the poetry-in-motion dept.
bugbear writes "Robot hacker Trevor Blackwell explains how to build your own Segway-style balancing scooter. He says it's not that hard (but he already knows how to build walking robots)."
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Build Your Own Segway More

Build Your Own Segway

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  • This is not likely a good idea for a few reasons.

    1) Who would you send yours to if it gets recalled?
    2) How would you scrape yourself from under a bus if yours suddenly whipped you into traffic?
    3) The whole Yogic Flyer phenomena takes new meaning when you consider a home-made Segway.
    4) The ozone.

  • I'm tempted... (Score:3, Funny)

    by r_glen ( 679664 ) * on Sunday September 28, 2003 @04:00PM (#7079787)
    Do the bans on Segways apply to this?

  • Still not US-friendly (Score:4, Funny)

    by TACD ( 514008 ) on Sunday September 28, 2003 @04:00PM (#7079790) Homepage
    I can't help but notice that it lacks training wheels. Guess GWB will have to wait a bit longer before he can join this 'revolution'...
    • Somehow I can't stop thinking that the recent recall of the Segway's was somehow due to the spill that Bush took. The photo of the President taking a fall on his Segway seems to match exactly the symptoms described in the recall notice. Conspiracy? I dunno.

    • Well, your mention of GWB busting on a Segway sent me straight to google in hopes of finding a photograph. Not only did I find a picture, but a series of pictures showing the fall a different points of the action:

      http://www.bikexprt.com/witness/product/bushfall s. htm

      Sadly, no face plant.

  • Is it REALLY a Segway? (Score:4, Funny)

    by pegr__ ( 144172 ) on Sunday September 28, 2003 @04:02PM (#7079799) Homepage
    I mean, does it throw you off when the battery dies?
    • The commercial one has a lot of safety features, redundancy and fool-proofing. Mine has none whatsoever...With a scooter like this, if it stops working for any reason (software crash, hardware failure, low battery) you will fall, hard, and probably on your face. Imagine zipping along at 10 MPH, and suddenly the platform you're standing on stops dead. Oh, and there's a T-bar in front of you to trip you up if you start to run.

      Ingenuous, but from the sounds of it, I'll pass...
    • He's quick to mention that his clone has none of the redundancy or other safety features that are built into a Segway:

      "In the fairly likely event of the software crashing, a wire coming loose, a component failing, or the batteries running low, the wheels will lock and the entire kinetic energy of the system will be used to accelerate my head toward the ground."
  • WOuldnt it be better to have bycicle sized wheels on it for stability, and curb climbing ability? ALl the ones ive seen have wheels 1/2 to 1/3(apparently) the size of your average bike wheel.
    • Would using bigger wheels put the center of gravity higher? Of course if you had really big wheels you could then swung the batteries lower to create a counter balance for the human on top so it could never topple over but you would need either HUGE wheels or very heavy batteries.

      All I think bigger wheels do is make for an easier ride, perhaps make it easier to clear obstacles like pavements (can segways do that?) and of course the wheel doesn't have to turn as many revolutions. Same as kids have to peddle

      • No (Score:3)

        by autopr0n ( 534291 )
        All you'd have to do is connect the wheels to 'spires' coming out of the side of the vehicle, rather then to the center of the vehicle. Sort of like "|\_/|" rather then "|-|" (we'll see if slashdot lets this past the lameness filter..

        It would make the thing rather funky looking though, and most of the stability comes from the software, so you don't really need big wheels unless you want to go over big bumps.

    • Re:qustion about segway et all: (Score:4, Interesting)

      by kfg ( 145172 ) on Sunday September 28, 2003 @04:23PM (#7079956)
      The size of the adult bicycle wheel was developed through trial and error over a few decades. What I find interesting is that two largely seperate development trees came to much the same conclusion.

      26" in America, 700c in Europe.

      It's a pretty good indication that within the parameters of the problem the solution is reasonably close to optimal.

      Of course if you change the parameters you change the solution. Folding bikes, for instance, generally go with 24" or 20" wheels since one of the parameters is now compact size when folded.

      One of the design parameters of Segway type vehicles is that they take up a fairly small footprint, as close to a pedestrian footprint as they can get. Hence the small wheels.

      Of course the smaller wheels carry certain disadvantages, as you note. Higher rolling resistence (but since you're not pedaling this may not matter much to you), less able to climb over obstacles, more likely to fall into potholes and "nibble" in cracks.

      Probably the biggest detriment to the small wheels is the inherent lack of stability though. With the rider's platform hanging well below the axle line they'd have stability without the gyroscope. You can buy toys for parakeets made like this. Kind of like Weebles with Wheels. (In fact that would make a good name for a "motorcycle gang" mounted on these).

      Before the turn of the century there were actually a number of commercial bicycles sold that were built on this same layout.

      They don't work as well as a nice folding bike though. That's why you don't see them anymore but a number of manufacturers will sell you a folding bike.

      You "recharge" a folding bike with pizza, which is rather pleasant, and they're much easier to take on the bus with you than a Segway like device when you get tired of pedaling.

      I tend to think there will continue to be more bikes than Segways for a good while yet.

      KFG

    • Big wheels (Score:4, Informative)

      by LauraW ( 662560 ) on Sunday September 28, 2003 @04:56PM (#7080144)
      Er, probably [waldenwoods.org]. (Scroll down a bit.)
    • I'm guessing one problem is that larger wheels are heavier.

      The system probably needs to be quite responsive, heavy/large wheels are harder to start and stop.

  • It's patented (Score:4, Informative)

    by sterno ( 16320 ) on Sunday September 28, 2003 @04:06PM (#7079844) Homepage
    Most of the technology that makes the Segway work is patented. So sure you can likely build yourself one without pissing anybody off, but don't plan to start a business making them for another decade or two.
    • Actually, Segway ought to license their patents to somebody who wanted to make them cheaply, like Trevor's. They would be much more dangerous than the Segway. Segway could then say "This is why our product is so expensive. Don't you want to buy a Segway(tm)?"
      -russ
    • Dyson [dyson.co.uk] have about 4.2 Billion patents for their cyclonic vacuum cleaners. This slowed development of competing products - but it couldn't stop them because, quite simply, you can't patent physics.

      All it takes is for a research lab to exploit the same physical effect in a slightly different form, unless the patent is rediculously generalised - i.e. "The use of cyclonic sucky effect in cleaning products" - which of course they aren't (on the whole).

      Electrolux, Hoover, etc... all just went out and bought a hu

  • Forget the Segway. Better wheelchairs! (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Davak ( 526912 ) on Sunday September 28, 2003 @04:07PM (#7079848) Homepage
    The guy that designed the segway also designed the iBot [indetech.com] which is basically a wheelchair that can "walk" on 2 or 4 wheels. This includes the easy navigation of stairs.

    Forget about copying the segway...

    Copy this device! It goes for about 20k... how many people do you think can really afford this thing? This device allows wheelchair-bound people to practically walk again!

    Drugs go generic... but I fear this thing will be too pricey for a long time to come.
    • Simple, as with the Segway, the iBot, is a neat idea, but with little commercial application.

      UNLESS.

      Unless you can count on the government buying them. That is the key to either one's long term success. Honestly, the Segway is neat, and interesting, but as an alternative transportation method it sucks.

      It does work well for getting approved under all sorts of government programs, let alone it could eventually get forced upon insurance companies via the ADA.

      On topic, what makes this guy's idea better is
    • It goes for about 20k... how many people do you think can really afford this thing?

      Your insurance company can and will supply it if you really need it.
      • What? Are you just trolling?

        I can't even get the insurance companies to pay for my patient's medications or vital procedures... forget the neat wheelchair.

        Davak
        • I agree that insurance companies are the devil incarnate. But sometimes they DO fess up when needed.

          Family I know has 4 kids....3 of which have brittle bone disease. All 3 in heavy duty wheelchairs. Now...having a teeny bit of knowledge of their financial situation...I *know* that they didn't purchase them retail. Ergo....

  • it's only a flesh wound (Score:4, Funny)

    by Dorothy 86 ( 677356 ) * on Sunday September 28, 2003 @04:07PM (#7079849) Homepage
    There is no redundancy or backup system. It is not even robustly made. Loose wires literally dangle out the bottom. In the fairly likely event of the software crashing, a wire coming loose, a component failing, or the batteries running low, the wheels will lock and the entire kinetic energy of the system is used to accelerate my head toward the ground.

    Sounds like fun to me!

  • I'm sure this guy is violating a couple patents :P. Hmm... Can you be sued for patent violation for non-commercial use? I wonder if he could be sued for releasing plans?
  • Robot hacker Trevor Blackwell explains how to build your own Segway-style balancing scooter. He says it's not that hard (but he already knows how to build walking robots).

    In related news, NASA engineers explain how to build your own space shuttle. They say it's not that hard.

    (Seriously though, the instructions given on Trevor Blackwell's site for building your home-brewed Segway are not much more complicated than what I did in EE labs at Berkeley.)
    • The balancing part isn't hard at all. It can be done with Legos.

      http://perso.freelug.org/legway/LegWay.html [freelug.org]

      The hard part is probably just scaling it up and making it safe.

  • I know that hindsight is 20-20 but in light of the recent recall [slashdot.org] a lot of the opinions here seem pretty silly in retrospect.

    Despite being able to build my own, I'm still impressed with the Segway(TM) and with the courage it takes to bring such a product to market. Like with cars, it's pretty easy to put together a motor and wheels and make it go. But building a safe, comfortable vehicle requires a huge amount of R&D, and it's very hard to be certain that such a thing is as safe as it can possibly be.

    • Re:Oh, come on... (Score:4, Insightful)

      by MBCook ( 132727 ) <foobarsoft@foobarsoft.com> on Sunday September 28, 2003 @04:26PM (#7079980) Homepage
      Why don't you do a little more reading before trolling (which, IMHO, you're doing). First of all, I think that guy's statements still stand, getting the Segway to market was still quiet an achievement.

      That said, just look under the heading "Limits":

      Update: apparently Segway just recalled all their scooters to fix a similar problem: it can't handle hitting a bump with low batteries.

      Balancing depends on being able to keep the wheels under the center of gravity. If you're going fast and then run into something like a ramp or speed bump, it may require a lot of power for a short time to keep the wheels going up the ramp. Basically, it needs enough power available to provide maximum torque (enough to sustain speed up a 45 degree ramp) at the current speed. As batteries get low and motors get warm, the amount of available torque goes down. It's hard to predict exactly when it doesn't have enough to run safely. There's certainly a large gap between when it couldn't handle hitting a speed bump at 5 MPH and when the batteries actually run down. It would be a formidable task to develop the map of battery & motor condition to maximum safe speed, and you'd probably end up shutting it down well before the batteries were exhausted.

      There is another paragraph below that with even more info. Reading the first 3 paragraphs does not count as reading the article, you know.

    • I'm more impressed with the arrogance of Camen, suggesting that entire cities are going to be redesigned because of his yuppie toy, than I am impressed with his courage.

      Who's Camen? It was Steve Jobs who thought cities would be designed (not redesigned) for this thing.

      • Re:Oh, come on... (Score:3, Insightful)

        by GuyMannDude ( 574364 )

        Who's Camen? It was Steve Jobs who thought cities would be designed (not redesigned) for this thing.

        Okay, okay. I guess I got Kamen's name wrong. Sorry. As for who made that statement, refer to my response to DaHat below. You all seem to enjoy nitpicking my comments to death, however, I'm the only one providing a reference link to the statement in question. Maybe you two can come up with references backing up your claims, I don't know. I don't think you and DaHat have the right to treat me like thi

    • Re:Oh, come on... (Score:3, Insightful)

      by DaHat ( 247651 )
      Kamen never said cities would be designed around the Segway, that was Jeff Bezos, of Amazon.

      Please get your facts straight.

      The funny thing about the lil problem with the Segway having these problems when having a low charge in the battery is little different then an airplane when it is low on fuel. In both cases, the amount of time the controller has to come in to a safe 'landing' is short and will get shorter with any changes.

      The difference is that when an airplane runs out of gas it tends to crash from

      • Re:Oh, come on... (Score:3, Insightful)

        by cduffy ( 652 )
        The difference is that when an airplane runs out of gas it tends to crash from a much higher altitude, a person falling off a Segway is getting off much easier then a pilot with a dry tank.

        Airplanes can glide. A small plane can use a flat, straight highway as a landing strip in a pinch. An airplane pilot at a good height without any running motors has (compared to someone on a suddenly-toppling Segway) plenty of time to figure out how to recover from their situation.

        I'll grant, however, that given the ch

      • Fucking priceless (Score:3, Insightful)

        by GuyMannDude ( 574364 )

        Kamen never said cities would be designed around the Segway, that was Jeff Bezos, of Amazon.

        Please get your facts straight.

        You got to love this. Here, DaHat tells me that Bezos made that claim. In the comment directly above, autopr0n claims it was Steve Jobs. Tell you what, guys, since this archived article from the New York Times [spiritenterprise.com] credits that statement to Kamen, I'm gonna go with them. DaHat, since you are the one who is making a big stink about getting "facts straight", how about if you do a little

      • a person falling off a Segway is getting off much easier then a pilot with a dry tank.

        But much less than a car with a dry tank.

        A Seg, as it runs down, leaves few options to the rider. Stop, and recharge somewhere? And wait for a couple of hours. A car running on fumes can pull into the nearest gas station, and be off in 5 minutes.

        Park a Seg for long enough, and it will fall over of its own accord. Name any other vehicle that falls prey to that.
    • ... John Titor's amazing foresight: Segway predicted in Jan/2001 [anomalies.net]

      Search for "Ginger" (development name of the Segway), then "Scooter"

      This guy oughta edit his page and remove those comments since they look pretty silly nowdays.

      Yeah, hindsight is always 20/20. these comments here [archive.org] also look rather silly nowadays... (scroll down to section 5 for the juicy bits...). Read carefully, or you'll miss one of the double negations, and you'll find the text absolutely trivial. The irony of the text is that the autho

    • the recall was on the front page of the business section of my newspaper
      • And both the ABC and CBS nightly news (sorry can't watch NBC's nightly news due to scheduling conflict). I believe it also got some blurbs in the local news too (must have been a slow crime day in the neighborhood).

        Seriously, this news was very very hard to miss...
    • No, really. It takes decades to rebuild small areas of cities and their basic design stays the same for centuries.

      London, Paris, Rome etc are all based on cities of hundreds or thousands of years ago. The streets are the same, in the same place with the same or similar names.

      We got a rash of "new towns" in the 50s-70s which are a disaster now, requiring a car to do the most trivial of things. They were designed for a specific technology you see.

    • And considering that dangers have already been uncovered with batteries are low, I sincerely question how much R&D was sacrificed in order to get this product to market on time.
      It seems to me less an issue of testing than judgement. They probably figured that people would have enough sense not to run it when it says the batteries are too low. I gather the fix is simply a software upgrade so that it refuses to run at all when the batteries are low.

  • Comment removed (Score:3, Funny)

    by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Sunday September 28, 2003 @04:25PM (#7079971)
    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  • Is it just me? (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Hershmire ( 41460 ) on Sunday September 28, 2003 @04:26PM (#7079977) Homepage
    Couldn't someone create a cheap knockoff of the Segway by attaching a small shopping cart wheel to the back, and chucking all of the expensive gyros? They wouldn't even violate any Segway patents in the process.

    In any event, $5,000 for a scooter is just sillyness (yes, it is just a scooter).

    • Re:Is it just me? (Score:3, Insightful)

      by eclectro ( 227083 )
      No, it's not just you - good minds think alike :) -- I had the exact same idea. I bet that there is an expired patent for it someplace too.

      A simple wheel in the back indeed would get rid of the gyros. It is a simple solution which would probably be better/more reliable than the gyros too.

      But it lacks the "gee whiz" factor that tech-heads like. Indeed, it might even be boring.

      Kamen would have had a much more difficult time marketing such a product too. Which begs the question -- Is it the purpose of the g
      • Which begs the question -- Is it the purpose of the gyros to balance a person? Or are they there to provide a marketing angle???

        First of all it doesn't beg the question, it raises the question.

        More importantly, however, I think a large part of the rational behind It/Ginger/Segway was to develop balance for a different device which never panned out. My personal inclination is the creator was working on a device for disabled humans to allow them upright movement, possibly in a rigid frame. The Segway w

        • What a coincidence! [dekaresearch.com]. It looks like Dean Kamen's company was working on just such a thing!

          Okay, now to turn off the sarcasm (sorry, I couldn't resist) - Kamen was working on the just-approved product called iBot [independencenow.com] for quite some time. It was the "Fred" to Segway's "Ginger" (after legendary film dance pair Fred Astaire and Ginger Rogers [reelclassics.com]), and was in the FDA approval process for quite some time before being approved earlier this year as a medical device. iBot can maneuver disabled humans in an upright positi

          • Re:Is it just me? (Score:3, Interesting)

            by Matey-O ( 518004 ) *
            No one will see this, but the Stirling engine he's working on has nothying to do with the Segway...it's a standalone power generator that also produces drinkable water. It's a SMALL unit, about 1m x 1m x 1.5m and runs on just about anything that can be burned.

            So, it may CHARGE your Segway, but it's not an integral part of one.
      • The point of the segway is more that it seems light - I think - and that the steering is very intuitive - i.e. leaning.

        Replicating that with a tail may be possible - but its not as simple as ripping a castor off a shopping cart and sticking it on the back.

        It also wouldnt stop you from leaning too far forward - so you'd need one on the front aswell. This is all starting to look pretty ugly huh!

        When the gyro technology gets replicated without patent violation we'll see Segways on the market for sub $1000 p
    • Someone already did, kind of... There's a few shops here in Holland selling motorized scooters, the variety with two wheels in-line under a skateboard-like board. Steering is mechanical, using handlebars on a steering column like on a bike. They're easy to ride: many people rode the unmotorized variety when they were kids... and they start from a few hundred euro's. Here is one [motoped.nl]. They have added the seat and the other stuff to make it street legal... but they can be had without.

      The importer says he's
      • There's a few shops here in Holland selling motorized scooters, the variety with two wheels in-line under a skateboard-like board.

        Yeah. There's a zillion of those here in the states.
    • it is a scooter with wheels on the sides, the sides! man, don't you get it? its like a scooter, sure, but the wheels ar on the SIDES! so its not a scooter at all.

      I can't wait for the new redesigned cities, I think I'll get me a condo.
      • I can't wait for the new redesigned cities, I think I'll get me a condo
        I'll be happy to have a larger population on the sidewalks then maybe the public will be more intrested in having cross walk lights that work instead of street lights that work.

        (A few years back street lights that worked was the big issue)

        For years we've had cross walk lights that give you maybe 10 seconds to cross before the "don't walk" sign flashes.
        I had to run accrost to get accrost before the traffic light changed and get run ove
  • The best part of this was his honesty about how dangerous his model was to a real Segway, the failed model of the Lesson of Icarus, ... and the link to some guy who turned his Segway into a Roman Horseless Chariot [waldenwoods.org]. Yee-haw!

  • Truly we will be advanced (Score:5, Funny)

    by Timesprout ( 579035 ) on Sunday September 28, 2003 @04:35PM (#7080029)
    When the walking robot climb on and ride the scooter. Oh the irony of it!

  • I'd like mine to be in camo colour, with catterpillar tracks, armour plating, twin turbine engine and a machine gun!

  • Hehe..., (Score:2, Funny)

    by DWormed ( 711488 )
    RoboteQ (the manufacturer of one of the parts) also produces parts for use in "battlebots". So, who wants to take first crack at the combination segway/battlebot?

    Besides, having a flamethrower on your segway would really help convince people to get out of your way.
  • Can't wait for the science fair's in school.

    Use to be lots of rocktumblers, and electromagnets (nail with wire wrapped around it).

    Now we get to see rich kiddies building Segways.

    Sounds like something from the Jetsons.
  • It's not that hard to build a two-wheel self-balancing system. Look up "inverted pendulum" for the theory. Handling the hard cases, like slipping wheels and tilted ground, is a bit harder, because the simple theory doesn't cover that well.

    The Segway seems overdesigned because, if it wasn't, people would have serious accidents with it frequently. This is independent of it being overpriced; there doesn't have to be that much electronic component cost in the thing. If it actually sold in volume, the pric

  • Slippery riding platform (Score:2, Informative)

    by chiph ( 523845 )
    At first, I just stood directly on the aluminum plate. When I went through some wet grass and then I tipped the handle fairly far forward to accelerate, I nearly slid off and had it run over my heels. So you definitely need some grippy coating. Masking tape works OK, but I'm looking for some nice adhesive-backed rubber.

    Skateboard grip tape [skateboard.com] would be good for this.

    Chip H.

  • Recall? (Score:3, Funny)

    by Syberghost ( 10557 ) <syberghost@@@syberghost...com> on Sunday September 28, 2003 @07:21PM (#7081013)
    Does he include a PDF of the forms to fill out when it needs to be recalled?

  • handles on the side (Score:2, Insightful)

    by tigre ( 178245 )
    he mentions the thought of moving the control column to the side. why not have one on each side? probably a more comfortable position, allows your arms to help more in handling shock to the spine from bumps, and it definitely gives you more freedom to compensate for any sudden stoppage which might throw you forward.

  • i just don't get it (Score:2, Interesting)

    by mantera ( 685223 )

    i really don't understand this whole fascination with the segway, i can't think of any other product that generated as much buzz for no otherwise good reason as this.
    Just tell me, in what way is a segway better than a Honda Ruckus [honda.com] for example? I, myself, if given a choice between a segway and a honda ruckus, i would definintely take the ruckus. First of all, it's well established technology, it'll fill up anywhere, and it'll take you a long way on a tank, and you can fix it almost wherever you want. It's
    • First, you'll get killed on any street in the US outside of a major city...US drivers refuse to yeild any ground to pedestrians or bicycalists...forget horses anymore [illegal in many places]. That's why scooters haven't taken off. I really want one for work, I live just to far to "convienantly" walk, but I'm da## scared to ride on the streets! Segway is trying to get on the sidewalks for this very reason! many people could use cars less if a convienent, portable method of transportation was available..
  • if it stops working for any reason (software crash, hardware failure, low battery)

    I wonder how long it took him to realize this compared to Segway?

  • We're funny. (Score:3, Insightful)

    by DwarfGoanna ( 447841 ) on Sunday September 28, 2003 @09:55PM (#7081725)
    How many threads do we bitch about the lack of futuristic inventions, and then bash the shit out of them when their precursors arrive? (wearables, Segway, Star Wars movies, fat free Doritos...etc)


    Maybe what we really need to do is stop pining for innovative gadgets...they generally suck anyway.

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