Orwellian Tech Support 853
alteran writes "Here's a very well-written piece on what goes on inside a tech-support call center. Makes working for Initech seem good. Sorry about the forced ad-viewing - it only last about 10 seconds, and the article is worth it."
Similar to my experiences... (Score:5, Interesting)
And yeah, it was a grab-train-dump situation for the first week, and then you got tossed out on the floor.
I got let go, and no one ever told me why. But the training and experience I got there - supporting Netscape 1.2 and 2.0 - was invaluable in getting my foot in the door at other places. It was a hell of a meatgrinder for me, but I lived...
Re:Similar to my experiences... (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Similar to my experiences... (Score:4, Insightful)
Could you please tell us who that client is?
Re:Similar to my experiences... (Score:5, Funny)
I've worked for Stream in N.Ireland, Dallas and Holland - and i can confirm the lack of training. Problem-solving was never emphasised, rather reduce call times and meet targets. I've supported over 7 major contracts for various manufacturers - and the absolute worst case scenario was 8 hours training in a product we were totally unfamiliar with, then thrown onto the phones. Talk about being thrown to the wolves!
However, i can safely say that the experience i gained with Stream has benefited me in my career change to the legal profession, where i can bullshit and bluff with the best of them!
eh???? (Score:5, Funny)
Things go on inside tech-support centers?!? I thought they just put everyone on hold!
Nothing new here... Carry on. (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Nothing new here... BULL*$@# ! (Score:5, Insightful)
If you put an idiot with a script in front of them on the phone, they may piss off people, but they are less likely to do any real damage.
I actually read the article and found it positively HORRIFYING. Since I am around sysadmins all the time, I forget what it's like to be some gullible consumer running Windows XP Home Edition.
How about some Hippocratic Oath action here? You know, "First, do no harm." The Formatters who fail to fully disclose that consumers are going to lose their family's digital photo albums, video clips of newborns, and contact information for friends and family worldwide are lacking in redeeming human value. If you are a Formatter, please find a new line of work- TODAY.
Call ME gullible, but given our reasonably wide-open markets for building, selling, and supporting PC's, I would think the companies using these "Support Centers" will suffer for their callous disregard for their customers. What's worse is that these practices end up staining all of us in Information Technology as uncaring a-holes. In the future, those PC customers will move on to technologies that they can handle on their own. Hell, they might just buy Apples or some extremely dumbed-down desktop Linux. Just try explaining where "Desktop" is located in Windows Explorer to the average consumer if you think Windows is "simple and intuitive". And the Desktop is the first thing seen after logon!
Worked in a call center (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Worked in a call center (Score:4, Interesting)
It actually proved to be more costly to have a cheap work enviornment that wasn't a fun place to work.
Re:Worked in a call center (Score:5, Interesting)
Then they started offering bonuses for "calls-per-hour". I wrote a dollar-sign on the little orange "Rls" (hangup) button on the phone because the more times I pressed that button, the more I got paid. I make a cha-ching sound each time I hit it. Got a big ol' bonus for it. They asked how I got so much faster and I told them it was because I stopped giving a shit. When told that wasn't what they were after, I reminded them that they were paying extra for it.
Favorite lines:
1) It's an operating system problem, call Microsoft
2) Those modems are known to be flaky, call US Robotics for a firmware upgrade
3) I can hear static on your phone line, call the phone company. You can't hear it? Yeah, it's typically on only one side of the line that's coming *from* your house, that's why you didn't know.
4) Yes, we are aware of a problem at that POP, there's a tech team there now, try it again in about 30 minutes.
Fun with Phones:
1) Call tech support yourself and solve many of your own problems in 3 seconds or less, receive bonus. (It helps to work the very early shift so there's a greater chance of ringing your own phone).
2) Your supervisor can see they you're on an "inside" call so make sure you call the 800 number.
3) If you call in and you don't get yourself, make sure you get your co-workers on board to solve each other's problems - CHA CHING!
4) This doesn't work because supervisors montitor calls.
5) But your phone can only be monitored by one other phone at a time so go to an empty cubicle across the building and let it monitor your phone. Place a piece of paper under the handset so the phone sits in the cradle without hanging up. Enjoy the show as your supervisor calls in the phone guy and they keep glancing over at you. Ask them what's wrong and watch them squirm.
----------
And in the end all they do is create more calls which they try frantically to take which creates even more calls - your never get ahead and you piss off all your customers.
The salon article talks about outsourced tech support but Earthlick was screwing itself with this attitude in-house.
----------
2 cents (Score:5, Informative)
Re:2 cents (Score:5, Funny)
Re:2 cents (Score:5, Informative)
Heehee. I worked over two years in European tech support - based in Ireland - for one of the big three (at that time), and it was all true! One difference - in my section, we had laptops, so using laplink and a serial cable we could install games on our machines. Got rid of the frustration. But not the big brother attitude of the omnipresent phone stats and supervisors...
Orwellian? (Score:5, Insightful)
I'd have said Kafka-esque, perhaps.
Re:Orwellian? (Score:5, Informative)
Perhaps it was this quote that made the submitter think of "1984":
Our phones monitor our ability to reach this magic number as well as the total number of calls we take, the number of times we ask for help, how much time we take between calls, even the amount of time we spend in the restroom. In short, your phone is always watching you.
Re:Orwellian? (Score:4, Interesting)
Admittedly, "Orwellian" is most often applied directly the 1984, but not always or exclusively.
sPh
Clueless? No surprise (Score:5, Interesting)
I worked doing tech support at an ISP some years ago. Once I gained more knowledge I moved on to bigger and better things. It cannot be easy to hold on to talented tech support persons for the relatively low pay they receive vs the stress of dealing with irate customers and the pressure of keeping call times down. Most probably move on like I did.
depends on the company (Score:4, Informative)
Why is this news?
Yeah, mod it flamebait, but you thought the same thing.
Some companies give bad tech support. News at 11.
For anyone too lazy to read the entire article. (Score:5, Funny)
"Bullshit. Total bullshit."
And we wonder why computer illiterate people always come to directly to the geek in their life for help whenever something goes wrong.
Re:For anyone too lazy to read the entire article. (Score:5, Funny)
Unfortunately for me, she runs Linux.
Re:For anyone too lazy to read the entire article. (Score:5, Funny)
Re:For anyone too lazy to read the entire article. (Score:5, Funny)
This call may be monitored... (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:This call may be monitored... (Score:4, Funny)
obligatory dead troll link (Score:5, Funny)
It's mildly amusing, but there is grains of truth in the humor...
e.
Very, very familiar. (Score:5, Interesting)
If you're a big fan of "root causes", well, the root cause of crappy tech support is the business model. The people who work there get paid per hour, but the actual company, or in this case "branch-of-other-company-via-internal-billing" gets paid per call that comes into the building. Therefore somebody who is needs three or four calls to fix a problem, rather than just one, is three or four more times as profitable to the company as one who calls once.
In this environment, the ideal setup is about 95% braindead scriptreaders who can cheaply solve the great majority of problems given a flowchart and three or four tries and a tiny handful of people who handle the real problems from the persistent clients. But if you're actually good, and you want to keep your job, you have to play by Management's playbook.
There's an optimal point somewhere where the cheapness of tech-support expenses is balanced against the cost of losing clients, and I promise you, some very smart people have worked out those numbers.
Seriously, that's why consumer net access is so cheap, in both senses of the word, these days.
Mozilla Ad-blocking (Score:4, Informative)
Adblock cache.ultramercial.com/*
Adblock salon.com/Creatives/*
That flags the cookie you've seen the ad, and next time you get a nice clean page that says click here to continue.
Also on Salon, the ads are pathed to
Not all that enlightening (Score:5, Interesting)
The more calls you can handle, the fewer people you need (and all the associated overhead costs) and the more profit you make. It's really that simple.
Employees who actually take the time to help people get bad numbers and ultimately get canned, even if they're good at helping people. The successful employees figure out how to crank through their calls ASAP, as well as how to game the system so that they can sneak idle time without appearing to ignore calls in queue.
It's essentially the rules associated with factory work applied to answering the phone.
Re:Not all that enlightening (Score:5, Informative)
Absolutely (Score:5, Insightful)
His response was basically, "Yes, that's very nice and all, but you need to lower your average call time." The next day I was getting really frustrated about my call times and just said to myself "Fuck it, this job sucks." So I sat there for a couple minutes just hitting the hang-up button every time a call was routed to me until the queue was empty.
A week later I was called back into the manager's office. I thought to myself, "OK, this is it. Today I get fired." Instead I was congratulated on my much improved call times, given a cheesey award and told that I was being put in line for a minor promotion.
I quit and found another job a couple weeks later.
Quote (Score:5, Insightful)
My days as a tech junkie (Score:5, Informative)
Others just told customers the printer was defective and needed to be replaced and sent them a new one. (Now you know why it's so easy to get that printer replaced!)
And for the printers that really needed to be replaced, that really had major defects, it was a big no-no to even mention that this might be a common problems.
You see, tech support is all about image. The company doesn't want to give good tech support. It just wants the customers to not think badly about it.
P.S.: To be fair, the TS was nowhere near as bad as described in the article, but I was only in the (comparitively) highly-trained laser printer dept. The ink-jets were shipped out to India a LONG time ago.
Re:My days as a tech junkie (Score:5, Funny)
Support is demanding and expensive (Score:5, Insightful)
I came up through an original support staff of under 6 all the way through a 100+ org with sophisticated call tracking and metrics and high levels of customer satisfaction. Our customers were deploying and implementing production manufacturing systems. They simply could not get up and running without our support. And they were paying 5-figures + just for support, so there was a real incentive and resource base to make quality support happen. Despite that there were times when our customers got less than the best level of support. I'd hate to think what support is like in low margin, high volume businesses.
For the technically adept, support becomes a physiological challenge. Customers yell and curse at you. Jobs are on the line. Halted production runs can stop an entire shop floor. Big money is on the line. Even when you know what you are doing, it's hard not to take this personally. It is no longer a technical challenge, but a psychological one. Those that can't cope with this reality burn out, those that can become rich as consultants.
Even in the best of support orgs, with all the financial resources, support is still the bottom of the totem poll in most companies. Too little respect is afforded the support staff by other departments (but those few in the know, actually find the broad knowledge from the support group). Support is seen as a beginning, not an endgame for their most talented people. The writing is on the wall once you start to become an internal consultant to the sales and development departments. You will be leaving support and taking your knowledge and mentoring skills to greener pastures.
In my experience, for complicated software I've found that a support group can utilize as many resources as the sales or development group. How many companies do you know that put as much resources into support as into the other groups? In support, like everything else, you get what you pay for. Even when a company realizes the value of support, the best people eventually go elsewhere. Until these issues get resolved, support will remain in its generally shabby shape.
What the REAL measure should be (Score:5, Insightful)
Perhaps I am nieve or just old fashioned but whatever happened to CUSTOMER SATISFACTION. Support like this is an abuse of customers, how much are customers willing to take before they simply go elsewhere?
If I receive bad support from a company when I need it - I will remember that incident when it comes time to make my next purchase. If I receive good support, then I am not only going to likely be a repeat buyer, but I am also likely to recommend that company's product to others.
The Mail-Merge Couch (Score:5, Funny)
And you wonder... (Score:5, Interesting)
The high turnover rate of employment is cause of concern for me. However, it won't end until people realize that the job is horrible and shouldn't go after it because of the money. $8/hr to flip burgers at McDonalds or $9/hr to get screamed at, both by management and the caller, and have to worry how to get "customers" off the phone as quickly as possible, I'd take burger-flippin' any day. I may come home smelling like french fries, but a quick shower will fix that and that extra dollar just isn't worth it to me.
Amigori
HP email support is really good (Score:5, Interesting)
- Their technicians have responded within 24 hours (usually within 2 hours) to all my emails.
- They provided useful information without a load of sales pitch and other BS (minimal indemnification and warnings where prudent and necessary)
- The replies were in good English using complete sentences and proper technical document style and language.
- They told me up front they don't support linux (reasonable because there's so many distros and different ways to configure linux; I'd have expected REAL linux support if they were selling/endorsing a particular distro, of course), yet their techs went ahead and gave assistance with setting up the partitions for dual-booting anyway! (I wasn't just wiping the drive, but needed to re-size the partition so I could avoid having to reinstall, configure, and tweak all the WinXP stuff, and they were very helpful and responsive to my requests for information.)
Same experience here (Score:5, Informative)
A good experience with Dell... (Score:4, Informative)
The whole call only took about 5 minutes, and now my laptop is happy again. Good times.
Re:A good experience with Dell... (Score:5, Insightful)
The not so simple solution (Score:5, Interesting)
Complain. Often, constantly, daily. Write letters, not email, call every day.
Tie up their support phone lines to the point where nothing gets done. Tie up their sales lines as well.
Demand to speak to the president of the company.
File complaints with every consumer group you can find.
Write to magazines, tell them how horrible the support is, tell them you hate the products.
If the company has 12,000 unresolved complaints filed with the BBB in a 2 month period, what do you think will happen to their customer service?
More important to them, what do you think will happen to their stock price?
Re:The not so simple solution (Score:4, Insightful)
Seriously though, while I agree that this form of action is the only really effective way to make a change, most people (myself included) I doubt have the patience/time to coerce the company to change their policies. It's much easier to complain to the point where you get your answer/result, and then leave it at that. Sad, I know...
Re:The not so simple solution (Score:5, Interesting)
basically the way it worked was you call me, i WANTED to help you, but the help you need would take 15+ minutes of my time. people who did not maintain an average call time of 10 minutes get let go. Now, i may try to be a nice guy and help as many people as i can, but having income and feeding my family is just a tad more important to me than your adsl connection. Now the script thats provided is designed to work in a certain amount of time, as well as the huge list of things we wont support. i had a choice, go with the not so helpful and make you call more often script, or go with my own learned knowledge of troubleshooting and get you working as best i can.
at the end of the month, buddy who doesnt know that much, but follows the script to the letter, pisses people off (but since he followed procedures, his ass is covered), wastes a bunch of callers' time.. well he gets an award at the end of the month cause his call times ae so low. I on the other hand who spent the month bending over backwards (helping you find that mac address to your router instead of having you call the manufacturer, then call us back and waste more of your time) well i get a warning letter that if my stats dont improve, i will be let go...
the people you talk to on the other end of the phone are people too, and its not their fault that they have to be so unhelpful. in alot of cases they arent ignorant unhelpful bastards, they're just told that customer satisfaction and first call resolution takes a back seat to call times and call volume handled.
i tried playing the game for a while, but i never felt right comming home knowing that i really didnt HELP many people at all. so i went back to trying to help as much as possible, but found it impossible to maintain a low call time average while actually doing something for the customer. in the end i was let go because i "did not fit the company's bussiness profile" even though i did recieve several citations when an extreemely satisfied customer would write in praising my professionalism.
bitch and whine all you want, you're still not gonna be heard.. and that guy you talked to once a long time ago who went above and beyond? well go down to the ei office and you might meet up with him again.
I remember when... (Score:5, Insightful)
What I wouldn't give for those days....
Retail sales are just like this... (Score:5, Interesting)
Soon, manglement decided that since they couldn't get the onhand inventory to match, they would give several of us cordless phones and have us field the 'pricing and availability' calls to the store. This was running around the store and checking to see if the product was actually there, and actually 9.95 - on top of trying to help people who had decided to physically come to the store and perhaps buy something.
The best part was when you were telling someone about an expensive piece of hardware and some call comes in (we weren't allowed to ignore calls) for the price of a printer cable, or if we have the '20 CDs for 20 bucks' deal in.
I had one guy go off and scream at me, to which I responded, "Please go back there and talk to Rick. He's the boss. I am doing the job(S) he gave me. Tell him he's a fucking moron." He responded, "YOU'RE THE FUCKING MORON" and stormed out.
I tried to tell the boss what bad service this was causing, and he said, "You need to try harder." Grrr.
About three weeks later, the phones disappeared, and I was back to software. And hardware!
At this time, I didn't own a computer of any sort, as they were unattainable on my hourly rate. And here I am trying to sell them. Ugh. I gave up my fakery and lies. I became a 'troublemaker'. If I didn't know if software did a certain something, I would crack the box and read the manual (this was discouraged) even if it was for my own education. If someone wanted a telphone, fax machine, or sound card, I told them that the 'extended warranty' was a ripoff.
I became well versed in the Mac line we carried, and sold a lot of them because I liked them, and they were easy for the customer to demo themselves.
People seemed to like my honesty. And I learned more about selling, and sold more than lots of smarmy 'say-anythings' there, because I only sold the stuff I knew, and liked. Of course, I quit not long after for other reasons. After that, I was well on my way to knowing my stuff, and built my first computer out of Salvation Army parts.
Oh, lots of retail stories came out of that evil place...
The worst (Score:5, Interesting)
I work in the repair department at a large electronics store. One of my duties (other than actually repairing or upgrading computers) is "inspecting" equipment such as wireless routers to make sure that we aren't getting scammed. It burns me up when someone brings in their 3rd unit in as many days, saying, "wow, what's wrong with you guys? I've been on the phone with D-Link all day, and this is the third bad unit I've gotten". I just want to yell out, "no sir, you've been on the phone with an outsourced guy in Manilla who may or may not have ever even seen a picture of your product, and he says it's faulty because his only concern is getting you off the phone in less than fifteen minutes."
I had a young woman come in the other day with some random Gateway desktop that looked like a CRT iMac knock-off (an all-in-one design where the mainboard and drives were installed in a section below the monitor). She plunks it down on my desk, and says, "The guy at Gateway's tech support says it needs a new video card." I took one look at this obviously completely integrated computer, and said (without thinking), "Are you sure he said that?" "Of course he said that," I thought immediately afterward, "he's tech support. He has no idea what that product even looks like. He doesn't know that the video is integrated." Just for grins I opened it up, on the off chance that there was some ghetto six-inch VGA cable that ran to an actual card. Interestingly, there actually was, but it ran from a proprietary pinout that allowed video to flow up to the monitor to a DB-15 connection on the motherboard, and power to flow down from the single AC jack that was located in the monitor . I showed the connection to the woman, then showed her a couple of video cards, and explained why they were wrong and what she could do (basically nothing, as she was outside of warranty). The funny part about the whole thing was that it looked like it was actually the CRT that was damaged, as it was exhibiting that "missing one part of the color spectrum" bit that is more often than not a CRT defect.
It's a shame, but I don't know of any consumer computer manufacturer that has what I would call "good" tech support anymore, with the exception of Apple (and then you only get 90 days unless you spring for Applecare).
I have a tale myself (Score:5, Interesting)
We also had to be crafty. Although some "premium" customers had dedicated phone numbers so that we could find out which ISP they were calling for, many of the individual ISP's calls were routed to a common toll free number, so we'd have no idea as to which of the hundreds of ISP's we do support for the caller is from. We answer the call generically ("Tech Support, how may I assist you?") and usually asked for the customer's e-mail address for an indication of which ISP they were with. The domain name would give away the ISP. Unfortunately, people often did not give the domain name, or had offsite e-mail accounts. Since we couldn't give away that we were not with "their ISP", I couldn't flat out ask. I'd have to narrow it down by area code, and then search between ISP's in that area to find out who they were with -- often taking 10-15 minutes.
I remember one time management signed a deal and gave the call center side a chance to prepare. It was a HUGE customer - larger than all of our other ISP's combined. One night, on my shift, they simply forwarded the tech support number over to us. We went from an average 3 minute call queue time to well over an hour. We did not have the staff to handle the calls, and had no information at all about the specifics of the ISP -- dialup numbers, e-mail servers, etc. It was days before we even had the correct info to give customers. In the meantime, we just had to go with it.
And finally, we had no training program at all, so the company tried to hire people from an outsourcer in the area who had already been through their hideous training program. We paid a dollar an hour more, so it was usually pretty easy to do. Unfortunately, we supported dialup customers, and the company we stole people from supported cable modems, so new hirees usually knew nothing of dialup.
I lasted about six months there surprisingly. When I started it was a small operation with only a dozen or so techs. By the time I left, they had on average 30-40 people per shift. We grew so fast that they had to temporarily build a room in the warehouse and put up folding tables to make room for the new call center people. I'm sure they are much bigger by now, but probably still working out of the warehouse.
It's the "Kens" that make the job worth it (Score:5, Funny)
Whenever I start to get frustrated with calls, I simply take a five second break and listen in on "Ken". He is the office stress reliever and we have a pool going around on when he is going to kick the bucket. I think that is the only reason the company keeps him, as mental health for the rest of us.
My most memorable incident recalls a customer who had the unfortunate luck of calling in to "Ken" to complain and make legal threats. Sharp as ever, "Ken" transferred him to our "Legal Department" (we don't have one that I know of) at extension 600. Funny thing is, our extensions only go to the mid 500's, so no one was going to answer the call and the guy would wait on hold potentially forever.
Did I mention he deals exclusively with Macs? I can't imagine what would happen if moved to PC support. Probably could replace his chair with a coffin.
Choice quotes.... (Score:5, Funny)
"...are you fucking retarded?"
"I am sorry, I can't fix stupidity."
"Yeah, it's the email chip. Maybe someone at the factory replaced it with an idiot chip."
"Of course it works, it's a god damn Mac."
"You're annoying me, I am cancelling your warranty."
That's all that comes to mind right now.
Now it all makes sense.. (Score:4, Funny)
When looked at in a tech support experience sort of way, the whole Goatse Giver / Receiver model seems apt, as a long drawn out episode with tech support will often lead to one feeling like the receiver.
I don't get it. Dell is famous for crap support an (Score:4, Insightful)
I always hear it from people that tech support doesn't help at all. Then why do you buy from those companies and not from some local shop were you get support in person? Cause dell offers phone tech support. ARGH.
Personally I rarely use tech support in fact the only calls in a years time were to my isp to get a new password. Simple stuff and still it took a good ten minutes.
Outsourced tech support is known to be crap. They get paid per call not by satisfied customer. Anyone with a single braincell can then figure out what kinda personal they want. It is also easy to figure out the kinda callers they desire. Idiots that can be made to call time and time again but for short calls.
Until people start voting with their dollars and take their business elsewhere companies like dell will see nothing wrong and keep outsourcing their tech support with the same pay per call contracts.
ok gotta rat em out, I used to work for this place (Score:5, Informative)
just to give my fellow slashdotters an idea of what working for this company is like:
they employ over 5,000 of the worst possbile computer illiterates I've ever seen. most have never even seen the inside of a computer. they specificly say during interview "We do not prefer experience or certifications. we will give any one with computer knowledge a job but prefer that *we* train you"
they pay $11/hr WHILE logged into the phone, minimum wage when not logged in (which btw will be most of the time).
security is soo tight there all employees are run through a metal detector coming AND going from the complex (would say building but there are 6 of them). I asked once why they did this they responded "to protect the employees from the employees" referring to a couple times people started shooting guns in the call center.
This company is evil incarnate. the place is a total sweat shop. 3-400,000 sq ft per building of cubicles. it's soo disorienting navigating the cubicle farm you have to go by the signs posted.
Oh and everything the article said about the place is true. yes they are one of the largest support providers, they do compaq, HP and IBM, plus bellsouth/comcast, directv, and a bunch of others. All they care about is getting you off the phone in 12 minutes (thats what the dead giveaway was, totall company policy, if you spend 15 minutes you have 3 supervisors breathing down your neck). they will even go so far as you find a reason to manually disconnect @ 13 minutes telling you to call back again.
ATTN Florida Slashdotters: Can someone back me up on this place, I know someone else has to have worked there. I can't possibly describe how bad this place really is since I only worked there 4 days, but man it did ring some bells.
Oh btw, here's the whois info:
Registrant:
TAG (TAG6-DOM)
7562 Southgate Blvd
NORTH LAUDERDALE, FL 33068
US
Domain Name: TAG2.COM
Administrative Contact, Technical Contact:
Nunez, Juan (JN8854) jnunez@TAG2.COM
TAG
7562 SOUTHGATE BLVD
N LAUDERDALE, FL 33068-1362
US
(954) 724-6745 fax: (954) 726-0015
Record expires on 08-May-2008.
Record created on 07-May-1996.
Database last updated on 23-Feb-2004 12:07:40 EST.
Domain servers in listed order:
CMTU.MT.NS.ELS-GMS.ATT.NET 12.127.16.69
CBRU.BR.NS.ELS-GMS.ATT.NET 199.191.128.105
Bad experience with Qwest (Score:5, Interesting)
This story is absolutely true. I'm sure this will come as a shock to those who have dealt with Qwest, but I feel I must share my story...
<rant>
We recently dropped our long distance carrier from our phone line. The phone line is a shared ADSL line. The change goes through, and my DSL disappears. WTF?
I call my ISP, and they talk to my DSL provider (which is not Qwest). They determine within minutes that the circuit is open at Qwest's end, and that I need to call Qwest and get them to fix it.
Sighing heavily, I wait 45 minutes on hold to talk to Qwest DSL tech support. I describe my problem, and they ask if I have done anything to the line recently. Decent question to ask, so I tell them about dropping our LD carrier. He puts me on hold, then conferences me in with a DSL salesman. A DSL salesman! "We don't do have anything to do with someone else's DSL!" the salesman tells me. "You'll have to talk to your ISP again." They transfer me to repair, and repair says there is nothing wrong with my line. My phone line that is. "That's not the problem!" I say. "Well, it's not our problem."
So I call my ISP back, and they say the problem is still at Qwest's end. They can't provide DSL service over an open circuit. I still need to get Qwest on the phone. They tell me to have Qwest conference me in with them. Trying to be patient, I call Qwest again...
After another 45 minutes on hold, I get someone who is even more clueless than the previous person. I tell him my problem, and he wants to look me up in their DSL database. "But I am not a Qwest DSL customer!" I tell him. He looks me up anyway. "I can't find you in the database," he says. Really. I just told you that. Heasks what operating system I'm using. WTF? I ask him to conference in my ISP so that they can describe what's going on. Frequent repetitions of this request are met with a huge amount of resistance. "I can talk to someone here about your problem," he says. "Fine," I say, talk to someone else and put me on hold again.
"We don't support other provider's DSL," he returns with after 5 minutes on hold. "That's not the problem!" I plea. "It's not our problem," he says, and transfers me to repair, who claims they don't have anything to do with DSL. Angry, I hang up, and call my ISP back. "Help me please!"
A few days go by. My ISP and DSL provider escalate this help call within their own systems and get a Qwest person with a clue on the case. Within a few hours, they determine that Qwest miswired my line after we dropped our LD carrier. WTF? Within a few minutes of determining this, my DSL service is back on.
"It's not our problem." No one at Qwest even made the slightest effort to try to delve deeper into my problem, they just wanted to get me off the phone as quickly as possible. Today's tech support is getting more and more useless. If you don't have an inside person in the system, you don't stand a chance of getting your problem fixed these days.
</rant>
Tech Support Experiences (Score:4, Insightful)
The problem, in my experience, and highlighted in this article, is the corporate love of outsourcing. Using my own experience as example, I started some years ago working for a particular linux based company doing tech support. At the time I started, the in-house support people handled phone support for corporate customers, and web-based support for non-corporate customers (i.e. those who didnt pay for a specific contract). The phone support was handled by an outsource "Partner" who had call centers on both coasts.
When I first started, the level of customer satisfaction for support was abyssmal. Being the "in house experts" we were drafted to monitor calls and offer critique to the outsource company. In the end, nothing we could do worked, and their treatment of our customers was so bad, we finally dropped them like a bad habit, and brought all support in-house.
Now, flash forward a year later, and the dirty word is mentioned again. So, in a nutshell, after the team I was on turned support completely around, from a low 30% satisfaction rate to nearly 95%, they turn around and ship our jobs off to another oursource company in a different country, and we were mostly out of jobs.
And same thing happened. Customer satisfaction fell through the floor.
So, the moral of this story is: outsourcing something that is customer facing like Support is a Bad Thing[tm]. Like the article stated, oursource techs dont really care one way or another (or those that do care are quickly replaced with ones who dont) and the company is just out for low call times and high volume. Techs who are actually employed by the company they represent are much better workers, and provide much better support to customers. Why? because for the most part, outsource techs are just hired guns who could care less about the company whose calls they are taking, while in-house techs have a certain pride in their work, knowing that when they look good, the company looks good, stays in business, gives chance for promotion, etc etc...
And again, thats just from my personal experience on both sides of the fence.
Worst tech support in the universe: UPS (Score:4, Interesting)
Their next step is ALWAYS to send you another CD-ROM of the software, even if you have two copies of the same version and neither gets you anywhere. This is their "get off the phone" move, because they don't offer a download or FTP site... Instead, you must ALWAYS have it shipped to you, even if it is going to cost your business a large amount of money.
Actual Quote from Manager: "Sir, we can't afford the bandwidth to allow people to download a 650 mb CD-ROM from our web-site! We'd go broke!"
Me: "I zipped the entire contents of the CD into a 12 mb file..."
Manager: "The size is irrlevant, I simply cannot offer you any further support until you install from the new CD-ROM we're sending you."
This might be my favorite Slashdot story every... There've been tech support hell-tales before, but this is an intellgent dissection of the problem. A dreadfully wondeful story.
A Very Different Environment (Score:5, Interesting)
Our goals are reduced visits by field engineers who typically bill $$$$ to be onsite to solve what is frequently a simple problem. Our calls aren't timed, and we do pretty much whatever it takes to solve the problem. Today, we talked a customer thru configuring Zone Alarm correctly so they can use our product. Sure it took over half an hour, most of our calls do. But the important point is that the customer was happy when we were done.
I have been here 4 years now, and don't have the absolute gut level hatred of my job that I hear from many support people. I am posting this because I want you to know that not all support centers are awful dens of customer dissatisfaction. Some of us do actually do our jobs.
We are getting *exactly* what we wanted... (Score:5, Insightful)
Our annual telephony costs are over 7 digits per year, easy... and getting any form of tech support, despite being a rather large account, is damned near impossible. The reason?
Everyone wanted 10 cents per minute. Then 9. Then 8. Then 5. Then 4. If a telco doesn't offer it, everybody dumps them.
Think they can offer any support at those rates? They can't - anyone with any experience costs too much, and is retired out. We get left with "script kiddie" tech supports, who don't understand what an T3 is, let alone know what the loss of one means. At this point, our tech support for AT&T now consists of a call to our sales rep, followed by a call to a VP - and let them deal with it, because it's the best they can do.
So, don't bitch - we're all getting *exactly* what we asked for.
Tech Support? We don't need no steenkeen... (Score:5, Funny)
I disliked that job. I didn't hate it, like the Two Guys stint I wrote about last month, but it was not a great experience.
The management was bumbling and just on the edge of mean - always sitting on us to get times down. But, it was Back In The Day, so I had GREAT stock options, so I put up with it for THREE YEARS.
The worst part were the customers, for me. Some were nice, and I liked them, but some were complete IDIOTS.
Here's a few conversations I remember:
Me: So, you're getting a what error?
Caller: Ah got me a tap negative ONE error, and then nuthin happens.
Me: Type one? Sounds like it's a problem with your extensions - some kind of conflict.
Caller: Oh? Wull, lemme check that out raaaht now...
(The sound of the reciever clattering on the table and footsteps across a wooden floor. The sound of furniture moving. The sound of more furniture moving. Fottsteps coming back tothe phone)
Caller: Why it CAIN'T be an extensheeyuns problem.
Me: Really? How do you figure?
Caller: Wull, ever-thang's plugged in JES' FINE!!!
Another fine user of our product:
Caller: Hi! My name's JIM! Who're YOU? ... how does it not work?
Me: Ralph. How can I help you Jim?
Caller: Well, my (program) won't fucking WORK! (puffs from a cigarette)
Me: Bummer. You're using it for what purpose there Jim?
Caller: I'm the webmaster of the Bluebird Trailer Court. I'm tryin to set up a way that we call all get onto the web and order supplies for our, ummm, homes without any kind of time wastin' - so like if someone runs out of Propane, they just get on the web and bingo: everything is done all automatic like.
Me: That's a pretty sophisticated job, Jim.
Caller: DAMN FUCKIN STRAIGHT! AND YOUR GODDAMN SOFTWARE AIN'T FUCKIN' WORKIN! (swills something from a bottle, and smokes some more.)
Me: I understand Jim, and I'm here to help you. Where you located? What's your serial number? (We do the business part of the call) Wow. Texas? You must be hot there this time of year.
Jim: It ain't the heat, it's the damn humidity (slap of skin. Truck roars by... I'm getting the impression he's sitting there crushing mosquitoes, drinking whiskey -his speech is beginning to slur as he gets louder and louder; in his underwear - because it's an oven where he is, and lives in the trailer next to the Highway - judging by all the traffic noise. A vision of HELL - a trailer park in southern Texas...)
and DAMN it's humid here today!
Me: Bummer Jim. so, let's see
Jim: It doesn't do what I want it to.
Me: Are you in front of it now?
Jim: YEP! AND IT'S DOING IT AGAIN!!!!
Me: What? I thought it didn't work...
Jim: It works - IT JUST DON'T WORK RIGHT! DAMMIT! (swills more booze smokes more cigarette...)
Me: OK OK - quit the app and do EXACTLY as I tell you...
Of course, he didn't and all he did was get completely shitfaced drunk and go through a pack of Merits. Eventually he started hitting his computer. At that point, I couldn't stop stifling my laughter, and put him on hold. I conference called him in with another tech, because Jim was a LOSER beyond loser. We were both hitting the mute button because we were laughing hysterically at this nincompoop. It devolved to something like this:
Jim: SEE? THERE!!! IT DID IT AGAIN! I'm tellin ya this fucking thing is CURSED!!!!
Me: I'm sorry Jim, I didn't see anything - we're on the telephone. Tell me what you saw.
Jim: OH RIGHT! uuuuh Well, IT' DIDN'T WORK AGAIN! DAMMIT! And (hits computer) this damned Compaq is a piece of CRAP. I friggin HATE this thing.
Me: I'm not sure it's the computer, and while I know you're using a very old PC, we do make the same software for Macintosh, if you do cross over to Mac. So either way, you can use this program and not lose your work.
Tech Support for some large company (true story) (Score:5, Interesting)
The training was decent, when the instructor was able to speak over the people in the back of the class talking. Usually that was only when the people in the back of the class were sleeping. We were told to try and keep a 7-minute average call time, which was impossible because the databases to search for registered customers were slow as hell (especially since they ran off the software developed by the company we were supporting...HINT HINT). If a customer wasn't in the database, we had to add them, which was even slower. Then we had to search on the intranet's knowledge base (KB), which, by the way, was slow, until we found the problem. We were told specifically not to say anything that wasn't in the KB and that if we were smart, the only words coming out of our mouths would either be from a script from training or a script from the KB. This included denying knowledge of pending lawsuits against said company for fraud, much less denying knowledge of the Attorney General looking into unethical business practices, etc. Thankfully, I was fired on the third day because I opened up a DOS prompt to ping a user. Sure, I had to save a file called dos.bat onto the desktop that contained the line "cmd" in it to get to the prompt, but even so, I was never told that going to a DOS prompt was an offense punishable by termination.
I wasn't sad to go, though. So many calls were related to the previously mentioned class action suit against the company or the problem that inspired the lawsuit that I wanted to wash my hands each time I finished a call. The official policy was that if the user hadn't purchased an extended warranty (possibly needed 2-3 if they had purchased their product long enough in the past), then they would have to send in their product and pay a $100 repair fee because a faulty part in the product finally failed completely and, even though the company was aware that many products were shipped with said faulty products, they still charged the customers. They also did not recall the products or even acknowledge that there was any kind of specific problem. We were simply told to alert the user that they needed to send the machine in and our repair center would take care of the rest.
Re:Today only, free access courtesy of Slashdot (Score:5, Funny)
A: i have a copy of the light bulb here at my desk and it works fine for me. are you familiar with the use of light bulb? okay, can you tell me which version of light bulb you are running - it should say either 60w or 100w on the top rounded surface of the the bulb itself. so, to check the version number you will need to remove the fixture if you have one. is the light bulb installed in a ceiling-mounted fixture light or is it for a desktop style lamp? okay?
right, it appears as if you have the correct version of light bulb. there are a number of possible reasons why you are experiencing this problem. first, however, i need you to explain the nature of the darkness. is the darkness intermittent? is it partial or total? are there other light bulbs in your work environment that are displaying the same problem? are there other problems aside from the darkness?
let's start with the simplest possible solution first. if you have a desklamp or other exposed-bulb installation, could you check to see if the appliance is plugged in. to do this, locate the black power cord at the bottom of the lamp or other installation and follow it to the end. you should find a plug connected to a socket on the wall approximately ten to fifteen centimeters above the floor.
if you are using a ceiling or other permanent installation we'll have to test the switch. first, locate the switch. it should be attached to the wall and be from 1.25 to 1.75 meters above the floor. switches are usually located adjacent to doorways. now, toggle the switch up and down. is the darkness persisting?
hm. is your installation battery operated? like a flashlight? is your installation on a timer or motion detector? is this a refrigerator light bulb? have you tried opening and closing the door? is the bulb florescent rather than incandescant? has it had time to warm up?
okay, it appears as if the bulb will need to be changed. i'm going to give you an incident number. someone from physical plant will be by within ten working days to change your light bulb. please give him your incident number.
Or, in other words... (Score:5, Funny)
Punter (Score:4, Informative)
Re:This is not Great Britian (Score:5, Funny)
Yep, that's still Warwick Castle. I think I'm definitely in Great Britain.
Re:Today only, free access courtesy of Slashdot (Score:5, Insightful)
Its a good analogy - "I can't do anything with this, so you take it and get it as far away from me as possible".
Re:Today only, free access courtesy of Slashdot (Score:4, Informative)
A punter now means a consumer, but previously meant gambler, especially horse racing.
Re:Today only, free access courtesy of Slashdot (Score:5, Informative)
The term punt comes from American football, where one kicks, or "punts" the ball downfield when deliberately handing control of the ball to the other side, thus making the opposing team have more ground to make up toward the goal.
Such deliberate exchanges of ball control are part of the rules of American football, so punting is a stategic choice.
In colloquial usage to punt means either to do something essentially random and see what happens, or to "kick" the problem to someone else, leading to the common American phrase, "When in doubt, punt."
KFG
Re:Today only, free access courtesy of Slashdot (Score:5, Insightful)
Punting usually happens on fourth down. You have four downs to move the ball ten yards. If you cannot, the opposing team gets the ball where it lies. Also, typically the same players do not play offense and defense. So, by punting, you are essentially saying, "I've done all I can with it, this is no longer my problem." You are deliberately getting rid of the ball (problem) and handing it off to someone else.
Also, punting often puts you in a better situation, as it gives the other team a much less favorible field position than almost any other kind of turnover. If you simply must turn the ball over, or are seriously concerned that you will, this is the best way to do it.
Last, being American, I've never heard it used in the sense of "doing something completely random". It's almost always referred to in the sense of "getting rid of the problem by giving it to someone else", usually someone you don't like or don't know well or is in a different division (hence, not on "your team"). If you were giving it to a peer or co-worker, you'd probably use the term "hand off", which is how the quarterback (the player who initally takes possesion of the ball and controls the play) transfers the ball to the running back (usually a fast runner, used to move the ball forward by running it) on his team.
Violation of copyright laws (Score:4, Insightful)
sPh
Re:Violation of copyright laws (Score:5, Insightful)
I'd like to see Salon and the NYT removed from the "special pass" list.
Re:Violation of copyright laws (Score:5, Insightful)
I watched ad, I done my time, now I want to read the article.
Or maybe I should have called Salon tech support????
Re:Violation of copyright laws (Score:5, Interesting)
Right. And if your privacy concerns are so acute that you can't register for a website, you shouldn't be using the world wide web to get your news in the first place. Their weblogs are probably far more useful in tracking you than some stupid username.
In fact, when I worked for an online newspaper provider, I would generally have mine the logs when we needed more information on a user. Example: somebody posted a death threat to a reporter using our forums. His username pointed to a yahoo account, no use there. Luckily, I was able to trace his account's last login back to one of our reverse cache servers, and get his IP address from the logs. His local PD used this info to contact his ISP, and they tracked him down pretty good.
Re:Violation of copyright laws (Score:5, Insightful)
Now, Salon needs the money and they do get some for each advertisement shown. On the other hand the site does seem kind of slow at the moment though, so even Salon gets slowed down by slashdotting. Anyway, I read the article yesterday, so I already watched my ad (sorry Salon, I'm a cheap, poor, bastard).
Re:Violation of copyright laws (Score:4, Funny)
Then what gives you the right to read what he copied? Terrorist!!!
Re:Violation of copyright laws (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Today only, free access courtesy of Slashdot (Score:5, Funny)
This could be a fun quiz addition for e-mode.com: Which Tech Support Staffer Are You?
I think I am a "Santa"
Re:Today only, free access courtesy of Slashdot (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Today only, free access courtesy of Slashdot (Score:5, Insightful)
Same here. I pay for Salon - I find it worthwhile, I read it every day, and it comes with an insane number of additional freebies - like a subscription to Wired. And it's not as if you're locked out of reading for free what I pay for. You just have to pay by watching an ad.
I don't have the mod points I had yesterday, or I'd have modded the parent down. Sorry, but that's just not right. And it makes Slashdot readers look like a mob of freeloaders.
Re:Today only, free access courtesy of Slashdot (Score:5, Insightful)
Welcome to the Internet Help Desk (Score:5, Funny)
Having recently been outsourced (Score:5, Informative)
Unlike the article, we do currently actually fix the problems, but guess what. Now 60% of fixes have to be within 24 hours, so what do you do with troublesome customers? Ticket goes on "waiting for customer" immediately, call them back at lunchtime, three calls and it gets closed. The metrics look good.
That Apache upgrade? Not part of baseline break/fix. Now costs you money and 3 days of my time (how much per hour?) as we update the OS, apache rev, modules. Oh, it broke your application? But you approved the change managment and we don't support homegrown applications.
Grid computing. Yum. $100/month/machine for supporting workstations becomes $1,000/month/machine as the desktops are migrated to *clustered* servers in the machine room. And you thought it was such a good idea before the outsourcing, at least they aren't on your budget, I wonder is it corporate who're taking the financial hit as the numbers of supported servers rockets?
Out of hours support? I'm off at 5 mate. Hourly rates double in the evening and double again at the weekend. And they start in 3 digits. What? You want a production system upgraded at the weekend? Oh you need a DBA and Financials administrator as well? And that 100Gb restore which is taking 10 hours? You get billed for every second which is out of baseline hours.
Re:Today only, free access courtesy of Slashdot (Score:4, Insightful)
Clean water performs better (Score:5, Funny)
Water Technologies from GE
Helping conserve one of our most precious natural resources.
See what's possible [geimaginationatwork.com]There. Was that so painful? If you're going to plagerize the article, you might as well plagerize the ad too!
Re:Today only, free access courtesy of Slashdot (Score:5, Insightful)
In an Orwellian world, you're damned no matter what. In a Heller-esque world, you're only damned so far as you follow the written rules -- if you trump those and follow the ACTUAL rules, you can succeed quite well. Loni is a Milo Minderbinder.
Re:Today only, free access courtesy of Slashdot (Score:4, Interesting)
If you've ever worked in tech support, this is 100% true, even the guy who doesn't help anyone but has the best call times gets promoted part.
Re:Today only, free access courtesy of Slashdot (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Today only, free access courtesy of Slashdot (Score:5, Interesting)
Negative. This article is absolutely accurate.
I don't know if other outsource companies do this, but Stream uses the title "mentor" for its second-level people (the tech support guy's tech support).
I worked at Stream, and I can personally confirm that it is completely accurate in describing what life is like there. The metric for success is NOT "Did you solve problems for the customers today?" but rather "How many calls did you take today?" Nothing else matters. It was particularly bad in our group, because The Customer was really fastidious about checking over our shoulders. This meant that punters would be caught much quicker than average, but it also meant that we had two sets of almost mutually contradictory objectives: "Solve Problems!" and "Get off that phone NOW!!"
Perhaps the most revealing story I can tell is the one about the staff meeting where our manager's boss was meeting with our manager and every tech on our team. Our manager was standing behind the Boss when a tech asked a Yes-or-No question of the Boss. Our manager immediately started wagging his head "No" and frowning, as though he thought it was a stupid question. In the next instant, the Boss said "Yes" and proceeded to expand on that answer. Almost simultaneously, our manager switched from a frowning "No" to a smiling "Sure!", wagging his head up and down instead.
It was one of the most amazing brown-nosing performances I've ever witnessed.
I can't tell you how happy I am not to be trapped in that dead-end job anymore, but if I absolutely had no other choice, I'd do it again. There's a lot of pressure, but no one ever asks you to take work home or work extra hours.
Re:You can't get parts from India... (Score:5, Funny)
[ ] You posted a Religious Thread
[ ] You posted a accusation with no proof
[ ] You posted a thread containing 1337 talk
[ ] You posted a me > u thread
[ ] you posted a worthless offensive thread
[ ] You continued a long, stupid thread
[ ] You committed crimes against pork biproducts
[ ] You posted a "YOU ALL SUCK" message
[ ] You haven't read the FAQ
[x] You don't know which forum to post in
[ ] You just plain suck
[ ] You posted false information
[x] You posted something totally uninteresting
[ ] You doubleposted
[ ] YOU POSTED A MESSAGE ALL WRITTEN IN CAPS
[ ] You posted racist crap
[ ] I don't like your tone of voice
[ ] You are not civilized enough to post in these forums
[ ] Yuo mispeled evry sengle wurd.
[ ] Your parents are related
[ ] You and your wife are related
[ ] You dated my sister
[ ] You dated my brother
[ ] You made love to my dog
In Punishment, You Must:
[ ] Give up your AOL Internet account
[x] STFU & GTFO
[ ] Jump into a bathtub while holding your monitor
[ ] Actually post something relevant
[ ] Read the f****** FAQ
[ ] Call Bush and inform him he sucks
[ ] Go to your room with no supper
[x] Apologize to everybody on this forum
[ ] Go stand in the middle of a Highway
[ ] Recite the Greek alphabet backwards
[ ] Take a bath in bleach
[ ] Drink out of a spitoon
[x] Eat my ass
[ ] Grind a rail on your sack
[ ] All of the above
In Closing, I'd Like to Say:
[ ] 1 R 1337
[x] Pwned
[ ] GG no re
[x] Blow me
[ ] Get a life
[ ] Me > u
[ ] Never post again
[ ] I pity your dog
[ ] Go to hell
[ ] Your IQ must be 7
[ ] Take your s*** somewhere else
[ ] STFU & GTFO
[ ] Learn to post or f*** off
[ ] Go jump into some industrial equipment
[ ] STFU botter
[ ] All of the above
Re:You can't get parts from India... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:You can't get parts from India... (Score:5, Insightful)
The American economy may be expanding, but it's not expanding nearly as fast as India's or China's. The American economy is not creating jobs nearly as fast as it's loosing them.
* manufacturing is all but gone from this country, and services are also leaving. From IT (programming jobs and tech support) to accounting no job is safe from an Indian worker earning a 10th of what his american counterpart makes. There is only a need for so many doctor (even that they can do remotely these days) or burger flippers.
Re:You can't get parts from India... (Score:5, Interesting)
At the very least, the consumer trying to get tech support loses. The support is supposedly lousy (and tech support in general is pretty lousy, so it has to be worse than that. There's also a weird cultural thing going on when people from India are suddenly acting like they're in the US and trying to speak with US accents, taking on fake favorite sports teams, etc. Is that really a good thing for India?
The economic picture is more fuzzy, but at the very least it's taking money away from US cities and sending it to India. That's not really in the interests of the United States, but it is in the interests of the Big Corps. The lipservice is of course that this all benefits the consumers, as if that makes up for everything. Gee, wow I can get the computer for $3 less because super-corp decided to outsource to India. Frankly I'm tired of all this malarchy about how everything benefits the consumer. Does extra cheap widgets from Super-Corp really make your life any better?
Re:You can't get parts from India... (Score:5, Interesting)
You've certainly identified the real culprit here. Even before corporations started setting up shop in India to hire people for lower wages (which are probably great wages in India), it was very typical for corporations to misuse, or not even use at all, the advanced skills many people have. It seems they are doing exactly the same thing in India.
There was a situation a few years ago when I lived in Dallas. There was a woman who I met who was wanting to learn more about Unix. Turns out she was being hired on an H-1B visa by Texas Instruments to be a Unix systems administrator. But she seemed to be a smart person so I asked her more about herself and found out she had a master's degree in CS, and the only experience she had with Unix is having logged in as a student user to a Linux machine a few times. So why would an American corporation hire someone obviously well qualified for more advanced work into a lower level job (run around and fix Sun desktops for engineers) she had no experience in? Obviously for cheaper wages (which, despite claims to the contrary, is easy to get away with using H-1B) is one of the reasons. But they probably could have her doing the more advanced work at the lower wages, too, so why not? Corporations also try to keep people down; maybe managers are afraid of being replaced by people that know more. But this has been a common practice for decades, to underutilize people's skills. It didn't change even with H-1B, and it won't change with outsourcing in India.
I can't blame any Indians (or Chinese, or Russians, or anyone else) for wanting to find better work for better pay than they have been getting before. The real blame goes to corporate executives who just try to screw people over, whether American or Indian ... all for profit. People in America are trying to recover their own jobs, and it's quite obvious the only way to do that is a change of government, since the corporations themselves are obviously not doing it (and aren't expected to, since their loyalty is strictly to their shareholders). The saddest part of this situation is that it will breed some hatred for India and Indians that is not due, and may take years to erase.
What I'd really like to see happen is that Indians get together and form all new companies that better respect people than the companies in America run by greedy fat cat scrooges, and end up not only putting everyone in India to work, but also end up coming to America and displacing these crappy companies we have here.
Re:You can't get parts from India... (Score:5, Interesting)
Sorry, no offense intended to Indians, but I have a difficult time understanding the accent. Some accents I just have trouble with. But that really isn't the issue for me. The issue is that phone tech support can only fill the role of a live FAQ list. Seriously, the bulk of tech support questions could be covered by a few beginner's computing courses and a small handy reference.
I'm sure the Indian call center staffers are intelligent and knowledgeable. The problem is that these big mail-order PC mega-corps dumped product at ultra-low prices and killed off the little local computer shops. Those places were actually the first line of tech support for these companies, and it didn't cost the mail-order companies one red cent. Plus walk-in or on-site was a more efficient way to solve problems, since the customer didn't have to sit there for hours and describe things to a support rep. My former customers (I no longer do PC repair) were more than happy to pay me money to fix a warrantied computer so they didn't have to call their vendor's tech support lines.
So, I have two views on this. I'd like to see some of these mail-order companies endure a harsh consumer backlash. On the other hand, I'm kind of glad to see consumers put the screws to these big mail-order companies, and force them to keep their support promises. Along with this, Indians have job opportunities that otherwise might not have existed.
I'm begging for a flaming here, but I'm not too worried about the Americans; When the average Indian can start a business in one day but paying $20 for a S&U Tax permit, and actually expect to make a living, then we can compare US jobs to Indians jobs.
Re:Forced ad? (Score:4, Funny)
Seems like the first two paragraphs is all the article-reading you can stand...
Re:Forced ad? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Oversea tech support (Score:5, Informative)
"The reason they got so much hell from corporate customers is that they have dedicated IT professionals who've already done all the testing and can't afford two hours on the phone to get some replacement hardware sent out. The IT dept will simply switch to a new vendor if that kind of crap persists."
Actually, larger firms can get a deal with Dell where an in-house tech can order parts under warranty on a website. I would go nuts if my company didn't have that option.
-Jeff
Re:Oversea tech support (Score:5, Insightful)
Indians, of course.
Globalization will balance everything out in the long run, but the first few hundred years are going to piss a lot of people off.
The USA is increasingly catering to companies and those that own them, at the expense of the individual. Taken to an extreme perspective, the USA might be seen as a land of corporations surrounded by a sea of poverty, an extreme polarization of wealth.
Fortunately there are a few things that can't really be moved overseas (today, at least). Things like person-to-person service, sales, government, construction. Well, and lawyers. And crime. As other jobs dry up and move to less wealthy nations, these industries will probably boom. But in the end salaries will balance out just about everywhere. The only way you might outperform local salary averages is if your position requires physical proximity, and many don't, nowadays.
What can you do? Buy some stock.
Re:Oversea tech support (Score:4, Interesting)
You can tell when they're reading off the script. The worst is whn they've been beaten down so throughly (i.e. "well trained") that they are completely unable to depart from the script. Of course that's viewing the situation charitably - the alternative is that they were that way to start with.
I refer to these people as "MeatBots".
New MeatBot TM ! It's a robot - made of meat!
Funny this. Almost the same happened to me. (Score:4, Informative)
The LCD was harder as I had to convince the staff that they had said any pixel problems was enough to get it changed and any pixel problem includes an always on red sub pixel. But got it changed.
Yet almost all people I meet say that they prefer to buy name brands because of the warranty and phone support. Both are crap but it probably gives them a nice fuzzy feeling.
I buy from shops and although I have needed it so far for computers it is far easier to demand to see the manager in person then it is over a phone line.
So I got exactly one question for you. Was this the last time you bought from this company or did you vote with your dollars and say "Yes sir thank you sir can you waste my time again SIR!"
Since the call center people work for the call center, and not the company, they have no incentive or access to institutional knowledge - you know when you tell someone about a certain model and they don't have to look everything up?
WRONG Since people keep buying from companies with lousy support these companies have no incentive to improve tech support. The problem isn't the techs the problem is the customers who keep accepting this crap.
Re:What's funny is... (Score:4, Interesting)
I will attempt to help back up the article with a resounding "yes, a call center is meant to take a lot of calls, not solve problems".
See, I work in a generic call center. We do our own support here for member accounts (non-technical) and we attempt to bring in farmed work from other businesses. When the management goes to talk to companies, they automatically reject anyone who says they want quality numbers. They come armed only with quantity. Average call times are to be under two and a half minutes and full time reps are required to take over 200 calls per day lest they be put on the chopping block.
There's two benefits to this approach: 1) management can claim a high quality call center to prosepective outsourcers based on the fact that we take a lot of calls and 2) H.R. can keep average salaries low by firing people who are not meeting quality standards and unrealistic quantity standards. Effectively, the only way to make these mutually exclusive goals is to remain as generic and unhelpful as possible. I was once told flat out by a caller that I'm "really good at saying nothing in as many words as possible". Trying to solve a person's problem inevitably leads to complexity which slows down call times which leads to a meeting with a manager.
Don't blame me though... I'm just a code monkey now, nobody listens to me.