Can Star Wars Episode III Be Saved? 905
mcwop writes "MSNBC is running a commentary asking: 'Can "Star Wars: Episode III" be saved?' It proposes changes such as ripping off Akira Kurosawa, getting the otherwise good actors to emote, and even firing Lucas. It is one year away, but is it too late to save Episode III?"
no. (Score:5, Funny)
The sacrifice of saving it isn't worth it. (Score:5, Insightful)
Think of it: one good move after at least 3 crappy sequels. Statistically, if you encourage this jackass to keep on making movies 75% will be shit.
Please. Let it die.
Re:The sacrifice of saving it isn't worth it. (Score:5, Funny)
That's a better average than the rest of hollywood.
This article is silly (Score:4, Informative)
Re:no. (Score:5, Insightful)
Just your friendly, neighborhood Dark Lord of the Sith
Re:no. (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:no. (Score:5, Insightful)
Dante: Empire.
Randal: Blasphemy.
Dante: Empire had the better ending. I mean, Luke gets his hand cut off, finds out Vader's his father. Han gets frozen and taken away by Boba Fett. It ends on such a down note. I mean, that's what life is, a series of down endings. All Jedi had was a bunch of Muppets.
Re:no. (Score:4, Insightful)
This is certainly true. And I have no complaints about the plot lines/story of Ep I & II. (except maybe Jarjar). My problem with the new episodes is the dialoge. The original episodes were so great because of all of the one liners. No matter how many times I hear 'I've got a bad feeling about this' and 'Look at the size of that thing', they are still hillarious. The dialog in Ep II was more like something out of a cheezy romance novel or a drama movie, and that was why they sucked. Lucas just needs to keep each line to 10 words or less!
Re:no. (Score:5, Informative)
You aparently weren't around when they came out. The release of Star Wars was one of the biggest events of the 70's. People stood in line in pouring rain for 3 hours to see it. People went to see it 10 or more times in the theaters. It was all people talked about. It was huge. Everyone saw it. Cinematic quality aside, you can debate this all you like, but it was a monumental event in American culture.
You also seem to be unaware that only one of the three movies was released in the 70's. Empire was in 1980 and Jedi was in '83. Were you even born when Jedi came out?
Re:no. (Score:5, Interesting)
The question "Can it be saved?" also brings up the question: "From what?" From being overmarketed? Nothing can save it from that. From being light fluff, with low content, and being fixated on characters we know from the other movies, and yet have a darker feel to it? Not sure it can be saved from this last one, because...
because...
because that's probably the best that can be hoped for from this movie.
Read that again,
IMO Empire strikes back was the darkest of the original trilogy, and it certainly brought new elements to the trilogy the other two movies didn't. It was the most content-rich of the two, as it explored the Jedi in detail, as well as Darth Vader, and his relationship to Luke, it also fleshed out important characters, introduced new ones that would become important in the third movie, and was generally the more developed(plot/character wise) of the three. It went somewhere(to a big cliffhanger to be specific), and added a lot of "deep thinking" material(is Lando trustworthy, what's gonna happen to XYZ, etc...)
It basically left no stone unturned in the Star Wars universe. That's why Return of the Jedi could be so light on content, and had to be action-driven, the work had already been done, and it would have been redundant to develop nearly as much characters/situations/worlds. So ROTJ was a localized plot, with galaxywide repercussions.
As for the first movie, its impact was probably most measurable under the special effects category, of which Lucas could be considered "Core Developer" if not "maybe-not-so-Benevolent Dictator" to use the Linux term. Noone had really used special effects to that degree before 1977(to my knowledge) and he certainly influenced the Hollywood adoption of
1) derived products
2) sequels
He may also have created the first american Otaku (fanboys).
Can any of this be expected of the sixth movie in the series, especially since it's a "prequel" where we might not know the details, but we certainly know the ending.
It can be good entertainment, if they work at it. And the work I'm talking about isn't an ILM, it's in the script department, and hence, it might be a heck of a lot too late to "save" that particular movie, since the plot part was set in stone ages ago... They can try to avoid fluff, as much as possible in the third movie, and keep it gritty, the-real-world-is-a-bad-place-especially-that-Jed
Maybe they should have tried for the original set of sequels(it was meant as a nine-movie set, at one point), despite the fact that Anakin Skywalker was probably the most interesting, complex character in the bunch.
Re:no. (Score:5, Informative)
What's wrong, son, ain't never heard of Trekkies? Sheesh, kids these days.
Re:Lord of the Rings (Score:4, Funny)
Re:no. (Score:5, Informative)
By the 3rd one I'm assuming you're saying "Return of the Jedi"?
If so, then sorry to say, you're just dead wrong. I suppose you were not alive when the first Star Wars came out in 1977? The world basically stopped when that movie came out. We're talking EVERYONE was talking and buzzing around about Star Wars. You couldn't turn on a TV, couldn't listen to the radio, couldn't go to any other movie without seeing a huge line of people waiting to get in and seeing it again.
Not to mention the fact that Star Wars was nominated for best picture of the year of 1977. What beat it out? Annie Hall. But to say that not until the 3rd one did it really get any attention is just...well, wrong. I'm certainly not a fan-boy of Star Wars, but I just can't let this slip by. Mainly because it kind of annoying to see Star Wars everywhere. And I mean everywhere. And it took forever for it to calm down.
Artwork? Probably not. Plain and simple fun? You betcha. Also, Lucas made it originally to be like a serial B movie that he grew up on,
Also, not to be picky, but the 2nd and 3rd one didn't even come out until the early 80's. But I suppose the 80's had their share of unwashed masses for you.
Re:no. (Score:5, Interesting)
On top of that, I clearly remember watching a documentary of the making of the movie, all the special effects, in school, in our library with all the third graders.
These are the reasons why so many people in their thirties have such a communal tie to Star Wars. Later when Empire was released, all of your friends who saw the first movie got back together to see the sequel. When Jedi came out, we were all older, and saw the Ewoks as this pandering too young kids, because we felt the movie was for us personally, those who saw the original Star Wars in the theater. We wanted Jedi to be targeted to us. When (understandably) Lucas wanted to bring more young children into the Star Wars cult, we protested. Take this to the ultimate level with Jar Jar and Phantom Menace, and we can see why so many felt the movie to be poisonous trash. It was taking our childhood youth icons and giving it away to others.
Perhaps if we could all watch Episode 3 through the eyes of an 8 or ten year old, we would enjoy the experience much better.
Re:Didn't Get Any Attention?? (Score:5, Informative)
Actually, the original Star Wars was a sleeper. Meaning that it didn't get released with a lot of fanfair in May of 1977. It came out of no where. They didn't have a lot of cash left over for advertising the movie. You have to remember, they didn't thik this was really going to work and it only cost 9 million to make. Even in 1977, 9 million wasn't a lot of money to make a movie.
Only after it became a hit that summer did all the hype build about it through the only means of the day, word of mouth.
Re:Didn't Get Any Attention?? (Score:4, Interesting)
I was 12 and growing up in Columbus Ohio before the movie came out in May 1977, and I can tell you that it definitely a *huge* deal, marketing or no marketing.
I was pulled out of school early so that we could go see it on its opening day near where I lived on the east side. By the time we pulled into the driving lot of this huge 1-screen theater, there was a loooooong line forming outside the doors, so I was pushed out of the car to stand in line while the car was parked.
Call me silly, but 1-3 block lines of people standing outside the theater before the first show don't strike me as symptoms of a sleeper.
Chuck
small town effect? (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Didn't Get Any Attention?? (Score:5, Interesting)
We had quite sophisticated tastes back then:
Saturday morning cartoons
Bicycles
Peterbuilt/Kenworth/MAC big-rig trucks & CB radios
Hotwheel/Matchbox car collecting
Catching insects and lizards
Tormenting the red ant nest at school
Planet of the Apes (all of them) along with SWAT/Emergency!/6 Million Dollar Man were the best of Hollywood, and KISS was the best musical band.
Is it any wonder as adults we see these films differently?
Re:no. (Score:5, Informative)
Re:no. (Score:5, Insightful)
The prequels were un-inspired vanilla squeaky clean space movies. The characters were flat and Lucas can't direct a movie to save his life. Natalie Portman [imdb.com] was great in Léon, Cold Mountain and Heat. As with most young actors though, she needs a good director to make her shine. Even Samuel L. Jackson's performance was weak. Samuel L. Freaking Jackson for christ's sake. I think it is very telling that they wrapped up shooting the 3rd prequel ahead of schedule
Lucas: "Take 1, Action"
Actors give half-ass performance
Lucas: "Cut. That looks good to me."
Lucas knob polisher: "Yes Heir Lucas, that looked great."
Lucas: "Ok, that's a wrap."
Re:no. (Score:4, Insightful)
Answer to the original question is no, because to save it, they would have to build real sets instead of using CGI all the time, and building sets takes years of prep. CGI shots are great for just animated action, but mixing too much CGI with actors' performances ruins them, as these prequels are a perfect example of.
Re:no. (Score:5, Insightful)
Ya, it should've been modded INSIGHTFUL.
You're both wrong! (Score:5, Funny)
There is no Jar Jar (*cough*) in episodes IV, V and VI.
That means that JarJar will be killed in episode 3. I'll pay to see that!
Re:You're both wrong! (Score:4, Interesting)
Sadly, no.
Apparently there was a rogue faction at ILM that came up with a sub-plot for Episode III that would have let Jar-Jar redeem himself through some sort of sacrifice that ended up leaving him dead, but Lucas nixed it.
A four-word prediction for the OT DVD release: Gungans in the Cantina. "Meesa have the death penalty on twelve systems!"
Ten ways Jar Jar could die! (Score:5, Funny)
10. Doing the proverbial "stepping on a rake" routine with Anakin's Lightsaber and cutting himself in two - right up the middle.
9. Getting his tongue caught in an X-Wing during take off and getting his head ripped off.
8. Being thrown into the vacuum of space and exploding
7. Two words: Venereal Disease
6. Squished in the trash compactor from Ep IV
5. Sarlacc!
4. Obi Won just getting tired of him and, WHAM, decapitation with the lightsaber
3. Joe Pesci, for no explained reason, walks in stage and shoots him in the head.
2. Uma Thruman, for no explained reason, walks in stage and shoots him in the head.
1. Once again, for no explained reason, Jar Jar catches a foreign born bacteria that causes bleeding from the eyes, vomiting, and nightmarish diarrhea - until death!
Re:You're both wrong! (Score:4, Interesting)
Jaba and (especially) Bobba Fett weren't in IV, at least not the first time around. If Lucas can make Greedo shoot first, I'm sure he can squeeze Jar Jar into the re-re-re-re-remastering of IV, V and IV.
A bright future (Score:5, Interesting)
Wait 20 years or so. The original trilogy will continue to be seen as a seminal work, and the "prequels" as a bastardized ripoff. Eventually, Lucas will die, or otherwise give up the franchise (maybe Michael Jackson can trade his Beatles songs [straightdope.com] for it).
Then, finally, someone can remake parts I through III the way they should have been done in the first place. No midchlorians, no virgin birth, no Jar Jar. Special effects that compliment the story, instead of overshadowing it.
Some future screenwriter and director will have the opportunity to give us back the thrill we had in the '70s, when we saw the original Star Wars in a non-multiplex theater, and were in awe. We who were preteens will be in our 50s... it won't be too late.
Something to look forward to! Just not in 2005.
re: a bright future (Score:5, Interesting)
otherwise though, that's an interesting idea. of course, there's a bit of me that wishes i could see a kevin smith treatment of ep 3, considering he's a big SW fanboy.
ed
Re: a bright future (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: a bright future (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: a bright future (Score:5, Insightful)
I saw that, and realized that there was a reason why Lucas made Jar Jar the Uncle Tom of the SW franchise for a reason after all. But it still boils down to poor writing and a lack of imagination (where "imagination" != "special effects"). If the plot was so transparent that only Jar Jar could fall for it, what of the other thousands of supposedly intelligent members of the Senate?
A good writer would have found a way to make Palpatine's plot more devious, more plausible... so inescapable that even Padme would have to agree to it. There are plenty of examples to draw on from recent American history, from McCarthyism to the present.
It didn't take a Jar Jar character in the US Senate when it voted to give Bush the power to wage war -- just incontrovertable "facts" that weren't what they seemed. The Imperial Senate didn't require a fool to lead them astray -- all it would take would have been a well-meaning but fundamentally flawed desire to do right.
Re: a bright future (Score:5, Funny)
agreed...it took 77 Jar Jar characters in the Senate and 296 Jar Jar characters in the House. Of course, why the rest of the Jar Jar characters in the Legislature voted otherwise will always be a mystery...
Re: a bright future (Score:5, Funny)
Touchy, touchy (Score:5, Funny)
Re: a bright future (Score:5, Informative)
Of course, that doesn't mean that the average moviegoing American would find such a vote in the Galactic Senate plausible, which says much about our instinctive understanding of human nature and history. Also, we wouldn't want the "good guys" to do anything that would help the "bad guys" now would we? That would just confuse everyone.
Re: a bright future (Score:4, Informative)
Re: a bright future (Score:4, Interesting)
Annakin's journey to the dark side (and consequently his fate) will be complete/sealed only when he kills Jar-Jar, which is why Jar-Jar IS.
Just fighting with his mentor (Kenobi) is not enough.
He has to betray love, and what better way to do that than to kill your best friend?
Re:Better Loves to Betray (Score:4, Interesting)
I say that makes the future anakin look weak.
I suggests he has jarjar tried and executed as traitor when he good-naturedly tries to warn somebody about some impending doom.
That would be more in line.
Anakin kills the remainder of the jedi council, yet escape yoda does.
Amidala returns to naboo when she finds out she's pregrant. The births are secret, the kids are raised by truested friends. She dies mysteriously (by anakin, who is now in the dark side for sure), and the two children are spirited away... Luke to tattoine because that's where Irish boy kenobi went to hide... Besides, the planet is poor, out of the way, and controlled by the Hutt... And that leaves everyone where they need to be for episode 1.
Anyway. The movie is going to suck horribly.
It will probably be worse than Troy...
Re:A bright future (Score:3, Insightful)
If you put the original starwars movies under the same microscope, it sucks just as much as eps 1 and 2 did. if you look at the movies with a child's eye, then eps 1 and 2 look daaaamn good.
Hell, when I was 6 I thought Howard the Duck was a good movie too.
Re:A bright future (Score:5, Funny)
> -- "I'm no actor, but I'm crass enough to scam my way into a movie every now and then." - Henry Rollins
Your sig gives me a great idea! Why not take the article's suggestion of dropping Hayden Christiansen and replacing him... with Henry Rollins! Wouldn't that be awesome?! Lava-surfing saber battles? Hell no! Serious man-on-man pummeling! A pre-armor Vader the size of a Volkswagen stomping around in gym shorts like some heavily-tattooed punk-rock Hulk would absolutely beat the living *crap* out of what we had before! And the first time someone calls him "Annie" he could just head-butt them and start screaming into... erm... some sort of space microphone or something.
That would rule.
Re:A bright future (Score:5, Funny)
Jar Jar makes the Ewoks look like fucken Shaft!
Re:A bright future (Score:4, Informative)
Just another example of how copyrights can incentivize dead people to leverage creativity
for value added customer delight (or something like that...)
Re:A bright future (Score:5, Interesting)
Maybe a bit overstated. Even as a 10-year-old I felt embarassed by the flat, corny dialogue in some parts of #4, especially when Han says to Luke "May the Force be with you." You can tell that Harrison feels like a goon saying that line.
Now that's not to say the Star Wars universe isn't great. I rarely had so much fun as playing SW-KotOR, and much of it was because it was just so cool walking around on Tatooine.
Re:A bright future (Score:5, Insightful)
Maybe he's just acting. I mean, Han Solo would feel like a goon saying that.
Lucas too possessive to let someone else try (Score:5, Interesting)
Lucas will never allow anyone to do anything with Star Wars. In fact, his best buddy Steven Spielberg has already spoken about this [bbc.co.uk]. Lucas feels that the Star Wars saga will be his legacy and he doesn't want anyone messing with it. Spielberg practially begged Lucas for a chance to direct a Star Wars film and Lucas said no. So I can't see Lucas willingly giving up control to anyone. And with the new copyright laws, his family will be able to control Star Wars indefinitely. So you can forget about a Star Wars film ever being made by anyone with talent.
GMD
Simple answer: no (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Simple answer: no (Score:5, Insightful)
- only those younger than 10 years old could ever appreciate Jar Jar Binks....I don't think he was demanded at all.
"American culture makes this movie inevitably what it will be"
- In that everyone who enjoyed episodes 4-7, hates episodes 1-3? ok, but I don't see how thats "American Culture's" fault....it's more like Lucas's fault for writing and directing 3 shitty movies made for kids(kids=10yrs and younger)
Re:Simple answer: no (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Simple answer: no (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Simple answer: no (Score:5, Insightful)
AFTER they went to the theatre to see the movie and bought the DVD and the special DVD with 5 seconds of extra footage.
Yes, it is too late, because a boycott of episode II after episode I's horrible blunder would have possibly saved the third movie, because they listen to box office sales, not slashdot.
But if they make a movie that as many people as possible can go to, and sell a lot of tickets, they make a lot of money. And episode I and II made a lot of money.
Re:Simple answer: no (Score:5, Insightful)
With the original Star Wars trilogy, he was limited by technology... but now, he can throw whatever he wants into a movie to fulfill his 'vision.' If the special edition 'improvements' he added to the original trilogy were really making Star Wars into what he wanted it to be thirty years ago, you can see that trend: adding useless scenes with robot antics, Han stepping on Jabba's tail, and loads of other childish slapstick crap like that. The best he could do thirty years ago with Ewoks.
In conclusion, any guy who dreams up Jar-Jar Binks is obviously nuts. You can't blame market pressure for a guy who seems to get off on terrible kids movies.
Yoda (Score:5, Funny)
Does Lucas Know? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Does Lucas Know? (Score:5, Interesting)
I know that there will be 100 posts saying this exact same thing by the time I click the submit button, but to answer your questions: Yes and No. He does know how people feel. He doesn't live in a little bubble in the Arizona desert. He may even read Slashdot while hiding under the identity of Paul Rothrock. But, in the end, Star Wars is not about the movies. It isn't about the story. The Start Wars books are far more interesting story-wise than the movies. It is about the marketing. If you go way back to A New Hope and read the behind-the-scenes stuff that went on to get the movie made, you can see that Lucas was keen on marketing. Everything else was just a hobby.
Re:Does Lucas Know? (Score:5, Insightful)
Well, Ep. 2 *was* better, but I think it also demonstrated that Lucas doesn't really understand the basis of his problems. He chalked it up to criminally bad ideas like Jar Jar and fixed those, but then went right back to his usual technique of crappy dialog and lousy direction.
What really needs to happen is at least part of what the article suggests -- the movie needs a talented director (aka, not Lucas). I'm not sure that Lucas' ego will let him do that; he's spent too many years basking in the praise of the original trilogy.
It won't happen. Frankly, I'm more keyed to see the next Harry Potter movie than Star Wars Ep 3 at this point, and that's a sad, sad thing to say about a new Star Wars movie.
Re:Does Lucas Know? (Score:5, Interesting)
Once again no one on Slashdot is talking about the truth of the situation. Lukas is getting you to pay for a paradigm shift to digital movie making. All he needs is for the movie to be good enough to cover costs. He could probably write off the cost as R&D anyway because that's what he's doing. He is doing a proof of concept for all digital filmmaking. He is not telling a story, He is not making a movie, and he is definitely not making art of any kind.
He doesn't like criticism (Score:5, Interesting)
Oh, Lucas knows that people don't like what he's done. The problem is that he thinks they are all wrong and doesn't want to hear it. In fact, CNN was refused access to Attack of the Clones based on a Connie Chung interview where she told Lucas that most people thought TPM was a disappointment [tvweek.com]. If you're going to kick the media off your property and deny them access to a major news story just because they suggested that the film didn't live up to expectations, I don't think you can honestly claim that you're open to criticism.
As far as his "reputation as a filmmaker", I think Lucas must realize now that he really isn't a filmmaker. He knows that Star Wars will be his legacy. So he really doesn't care about looking like some kind of great director because he knows he'll never direct again. That's probably one reason he's so possessive of the films -- he knows this is the last movie he'll ever direct.
GMD
The whole point is to make money (Score:5, Insightful)
It'll serve it's purpose. Unless you are planning not to bother going to see it, which as geeks and nerds, I frankly don't believe.
Killing off Jar-Jar (Score:5, Funny)
Makes sure it's a slow painful death with lots of burning from the lava. Tape his mouth shut too, so I don't need to hear his stupid voice. I say R2D2 should be the one that "accidentily" pushes him in. Cuz R2 is the comic relief pimp.
Re:Killing off Jar-Jar (Score:5, Funny)
Episode III: The Passion of Jar-Jar
it's just 2 hours of jar-jar being beaten.
Sure fire save. (Score:5, Funny)
It is too late, but... (Score:3, Interesting)
Star Wars != Hidden Fortress (Score:4, Interesting)
Hidden Fortress:
Two peasant farmers are refugees, trying to return home after a war. They find gold, and join with a mysterious powerful-looking man and a mysterious beautiful girl. Together they attempt to smuggle the gold across the border and evade capture.
Star Wars:
Farmboy Luke Skywalker finds more than he bargained for when he gains possession of two androids, who lead him on the adventure of his life to save a beautiful princess, befriend a devil-may-care space smuggler, and save the galaxy from the evil clutches of Darth Vader. Tutored by the mysterious Obi Wan Kenobi, Luke must "Learn the ways of the Force" and destroy the Death Star.
Key differences:
There is a powerful virile General (Mifune) in HF. In SW you have an aged magician (Kenobi) and an untrained boy (Luke).
In HF the princess is on the run to an allied province. In SW, the princess is captured and must be rescued.
In HF, the whole point is to get the princess safely to the allied province. In SW, the whole point is to blow up the Death Star.
SW has super powers (The Force). In HF, everyone is obvious merely human.
SW is a much more action oriented affair. HF is based more upon the interaction between the characters.
Similarities:
There is a princess in both.
There is a comic relief duo in both. SW, the droids. HF, the peasant farmers.
I know Lucas wants to compare himself to Kurosawa but he really copied 30s movie serials, not Hidden Fortress. About the only thing he took from HF is the comedy duo.
Also, Hidden Fortress really isn't Kurosawa's best work. Rashômon, Seven Samurai, Yojimbo, and even Ran are far surperior to Hidden Fortress. However, they are much better known and Lucas wouldn't have been able to get away with claiming ripping them off.
WTF? (Score:3, Interesting)
Mr. Lucas had this story in his head MANY moons ago. Why in the hell should he not finish his vision?
Disclaimer: Yes, ok, I have high hopes for ep3 even after the mess that 1 and 2 were...
YES (Score:5, Funny)
Battlestar Wars Galactica (Score:5, Funny)
In the new version, Luke Skywalker will be a woman...
Re:Battlestar Wars Galactica (Score:3, Funny)
Lucy Streetwalker?
Re:Battlestar Wars Galactica (Score:5, Funny)
Han Solo And The Skywalker Twins. (Score:5, Interesting)
And it certainly would have changed the whole love-triangle dynamic. Instead of Lucas copping out by making Luke and Leia (sp?) brother and sister, it could have been lucky Han Solo and the Skywalker Twins!
Re:Battlestar Wars Galactica (Score:4, Funny)
How it SHOULD have happened. [ctrlaltdel-online.com]
Saving Ep. 3 (Score:5, Insightful)
When Lucas shows up, knock him out, encase him in a block of frozen carbonite and put him out of the way somewhere until the movie is out in theaters.
The only problem being, of course, that you shouldn't let him out after Ep. 3 lest he decide to somehow sully my other fond childhood memories, perhaps by stealing my box of photos and defecating in it.
Anyhow, the article addresses the basic irony of Star Wars: That the guy who created it has also done the most the drive it into the ground, and that success has allowed him to do so more completely than ever. We all knew going in that Lucas can't direct, he can't write dialog, and yet here we go again...
Personally, I just thank God that this decade has had the LOTR trilogy to call its own. It was what we were hoping the new Star Wars movies would be.
None of our business, really (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm sorry you viewed the first films through the rose-tinted glasses of youth, and are unable to view the latest three in the same way. Feel free to bitch and moan about how it's not up to some mythical "standard" you create, but it comes down to it being Lucus' movie, and he can do as he pleases.
Re:None of our business, really (Score:5, Insightful)
Every artist, writer, filmmaker, whatever- has to deal with the fact that once they make their work public, it isn't all theirs anymore. By showing it to others, they've sent it out into the world and given it a life of it's own. At that point, the creator can't control my thoughts about the work, and they can't collect royalties on my recollections. The work becomes, subtly, yours, mine, and everyone who sees it.
That's why we have public domain- because we recognize that, although the creator should be rewarded for their talents, at a certain point, the co-ownership of everyone takes precedence.
That's also why you get offended when someone dislikes a movie you love, because they're knocking something that belongs to you. Or, sometimes, when some idiot likes the same movie or song as you do, it can get a little offensive to think that they like it for all the wrong reasons. Not only are you being forced to share ownership, but share it with someone who continuously damages it.
No, this isn't ownership in a legal sense. I can't sue anyone over this. Still, I can think of a lot of great works that I didn't create that I think of as "mine".
If Lucas, or any creative-type, can't deal with this fact, he can go ahead creating, but he should stop releasing the creation to the public and allowing others to view it. It's just the nature of the beast.
Petition for the Theatrical Release (Score:4, Informative)
bah (Score:3, Funny)
(Note: Poochie died on the way back to his home planet)
Who cares? (Score:4, Insightful)
I'll go see Episode III for the same reasons I went to see Episodes I and II. It's there. It's more Star Wars. It's a decent enough story, but deep down it's just schlock.
Face it. Episode IV is just a good schlocky Sci-Fi Fantasy that was both fantastic and familiar.
I hated the ewoks about as much as I hate Jar-Jar. It was just cutesy, kiddy crap added to appeal to the younger audience. I tried not to let it destroy the fun of having more Star Wars.
If Episode I was the best Lucas wanted to give us, then that's what I'll take. Episode II was a vast improvement, and I expect Episode III will be good enough for me.
In the meantime, if I want to watch something with real quality, that isn't schlock, I'll watch LOTR.
nope dept? (Score:3, Funny)
It is one year away, but is it too late to save Episode III?"
from the nope dept.
Ahh you slashdot editors! Which one is it?
yeah right (Score:5, Funny)
What an odd question... (Score:5, Funny)
I'm assuming that no one here as seen the finished movie. So how can one ask the question "Can a movie be saved?" before knowing if it needs to even be saved.
Of course, based off episode 1 and 2, I'm guessing Jesus couldn't save the thing...
hire brin!!! (Score:5, Interesting)
I already told several people that I will not be seeing Ep III because Brin's conclusion to the series is so much better than anything Lucas could come up with.
What I think Is Up? (Score:3, Insightful)
I think the major problem with P1 and P2 is that they are mearly action stories set in a Star Wars setting. Just like any game, just tossing well known characters into well known settings and expect something cool to come out is a recipe for disaster.
As I mention in my poll post, Yoda is less interesting in P1 & 2. Yoda is an action figure here. In P5, he did not once pick up a lightsaber or show Luke anything about fighting. Instead he guided him as best he could with ideas of what Jedi are based on: The force is everwhere, the force is your ally, the dark side is terrible but not stronger.
P3 needs some TLC in the themes and ideology department. It is amusing but the most "humanizing" moments of P5 were between Luke and Yoda. In P1 and P2 you get a vague indication that bad people are doing bad things. Why are the things they are doing all that bad? Because the Republic says so? Why are the Sith guys so bad? Because they look mean and chop people in half and do cool choke moves?
With P1-3 it looks like they are looking for a story to put SFX up on the screen. In P4-6, the SFX grew out of the story. If the movie is all but done in post production there is little that can be done now except ride the lava wave.
The series was ALWAYS supposed to be pulp. (Score:5, Insightful)
The whole Star Wars franchise was always, from day one, supposed to be a pulp "Saturday Matinee" sort of pulp serial.
It has a campy, heavily derivative space opera story line. It's been pieced together with black and white heroes and villains, both of which make the audience boo and giggle at the same time.
To fix one is to break the series. Most die-hard Star Wars fans are fans because they were kids when they saw the originals. Hell, many of you weren't even BORN to watch the original in the theaters in 1977. The series hangs together precisely because it is all schlock, and yet we love the characters anyway.
Joseph Campbell (Score:3, Informative)
Saved, Episode III can be (Score:4, Interesting)
or do like the 80's show Dallas and have it all be a dream sequence and make a Good Movie for a change.
Its too EARLY!! (Score:5, Funny)
I reckon I'll be 'saving' it to a couple of CD-Roms in about a years time....
RM
I've got two words for Lucas (Score:5, Funny)
They'll forget all the mistakes of the past if you add such a character.
Kurosawa (Score:5, Insightful)
As far as the article. I agree that Hayden Christensen is terrible as Dart Vadar. As well as most of his other points, especially the typical overuse of cgi effects which made me feel as if i was watching an videogame cut-scene the whole time. But one that he forgot to mention is the unbelievably forgetable characters who populate the script.
Midochlorians (sp?) (Score:4, Interesting)
Lucas took all the magic out of Star Wars. He actually managed to go back in time and ruin the original three episodes with his pseudo-scientific explanation. And the new stuff stinks. As much as I hate the Jar-Jar character, I sympathised with him when he stepped in that pile of sh*t. That's exactly how I felt while watching Episode III.
Sure it can (Score:5, Funny)
Not better or worse, different (Score:5, Insightful)
The general story form the original 3 movies is rediculously thin. The original Matrix put more plot in that single film than was in ep4, ep5, and ep6 combined. That didnt make them suck... it made them simple and fun.
In the prequels, he added a story line, political complexities, and actual character development - all of which was completely abscent in the originals. While they may not be "better" in the sense that the style changes made them mode fun to watch, but they are certainly not garbage. They are simply different types of movies. They only get condemned because of peoples memories of how much they loved SW back in the late 70s and early 80s.
SW has always been made for 12 year olds to love. The new movies accomplish exactly the same thing the originals did... only this time you arent 12.
One Person's Opinion (Score:5, Insightful)
So yeah, I'm committing the unimaginable sin -- I liked Star Wars 1 and 2. Am I a stupid person? My career achievements would speak otherwise. Is my taste inferior? Perhaps, although the only thing I give a damn about is whether or not *I* enjoyed it. Am I unable to recognize poor-acting and plot-holes? No, I was cognizant of it all. Anakan and Amidala were cheesy (although I still love to say "you're making fun of me" in that cheesy tone to my wife to which she replies in an reciprocally cheesy tone: "I'd be much to frightened..."). However, I also juxtapose the shortcomings against the composite package of the movie. And in the case of Star Wars 1 and 2, the positive elements outweighed the negative ones to provide me a viewing experience which surpassed that of most movies.
And here's my main gripe -- I think there are others like me, who honestly enjoyed the movies when they were sitting in the theatre seats. But then, the popular and intellectually respectable position came to be that you were "absolutely miserable" during the movies. I mean, only a complete idiot could actually enjoy those movies, right?
All I ask is for you to consider this: at the time of your viewing -- were you enjoying the movie? If you were miserable, fine -- then the movies didn't jive with your refined taste. But if your hatred for the movies didn't develop until you read the comments on three dozen slashdot articles, then consider whether or not you are speaking your own opinions. Be honest enough to admit you enjoy what you enjoy. If you like Enterprise, great. If Farscape and FireFly raised your standards high enough that you can no longer enjoy Star Trek, then that's fine too. If the Matrix 3 plot resolution left a foul taste in your mouth (as it did for me), then live it. Just live your own opinions. I'm sure many critics out there genuinely hated the movies -- but I also believe there are many more who initially did not.
A little bubble-bursting from the mouth of babes.. (Score:4, Interesting)
Wrong.
I have two hardcore Star Wars fans aged 7 and 8, and they hated those movies. They hated the plodding plotlines, the goofy looking spaceships and the crappy merchandising that resulted.
See for yourself. Go to a toy store. Tons of Episode 1 and 2 toys in the clearance bin. X-Wings still selling strong.
The only redeeming qualities they seemed to find in the new movies was the Pod Race (which the movie bent painfully over backwards to somehow turn into a plot point) and, sadly, Jar-Jar Binks, who young children find amusing and will even take great pains (yours) to imitate. Although they still want to be Darth Vader on Halloween.
The latter day episodes just plain suck. Even kids will tell you that.
You don't have to go (Score:4, Insightful)
The embarassing thing about the whole Star Wars series is that nobody else has done much better space opera. It's been a quarter century, after all. The special effects problems have all been solved. There are franchises out there, in the space opera genre alone, with more potential. David Weber's Honor Harrington series, or the Man-Kzin Wars, to cite two good examples. Yet the industry is bringing back Battlestar Galactica, which, in its day, was generally considered lousy. And turning about four big-budget vampire movies per year.
Meanwhile, effort should be devoted to insuring that Star Wars III merchandise is biodegradeable, so there's no major disposal problem like last time.
Star Wars vs. Star Trek (Score:4, Interesting)
Here's a tip for both: when presented with a paradox, it is okay to say, "Yeah, Lucas/Roddenberry was on crack when he thought of that."
come -on-. (Score:4, Insightful)
But I still found things to enjoy in Episode I. Sure, you had midichlorians and other stupid stuff, bad child acting and just bad acting in general from some of the principals. But you also had Darth Freakin' Maul, double-lightsaber and all, dueling about and kicking double Jedi ass (until his ridiculous, not-believable demise). You had Liam Neeson giving a very solid performance as Obi-Wan's mentor.
And I still found things to enjoy in Episode II. Sure, you had more Jar-Jar "meesa want" and more boring imperial senate nonsense, and more wooden acting from some of the principals. But you also had Jango Fett, and in the end Yoda goes ape-shit on Christopher Lee. Yeah it was ridiculous and half of me wanted to laugh at the scene... but the other half was too busy going "HOLY SH!T LOOK AT YODA GO."
I don't care if I'm called "Soft" or whatever for actually admitting what most people seem to be too up-tight, too wannabe Goth, too whatever to admit: I LIKE THE STAR WARS MOVIES.
Get over yourselves. Write your own damn universe of characters and make your own damn movies about them. Leave Lucas alone. Yeah some of it is crap, most of the acting is horrible... but there are some fun things in there and I personally can't wait to see how it all "begins/ends" with Episode III.
So there. I've said it. Call me a poser, fanboy, whatever. At least I'm not a little whiny arrogant "my sh!t smells better than yours" film critic or one of these ever-popular "I hate everything" kids of today.
Saving Episode III (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Changes? (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Was it all that bad? (Score:4, Insightful)
Star Wars was hit harder because a lot of hard core fans were expecting a lot to come from the movie - and that was the target audience. Appearently, the movie directing used for Episodes 4-6 no longer work as well with creating Episodes 1-3.
Looking back, Episode 5 isn't as good as it could be, since it had scenes removed that referred to the first episode. One such scene is archived here [netfunny.com], with the others being a bit more difficult to find. (Hmmm... Slashdot seems to filter out the <humour> tags... Oh well.)
Re:Original Star Wars like the Beatles (Score:5, Insightful)
That's where "writing" comes into play. (Score:4, Insightful)
They can't be killed by poison gas.
They can't even be hit by robots shooting at them.
They won't be stopped by huge steel doors.
They can even control minds.
With that much going for each individual Jedi, how is it possible to destroy almost every last one of them?
That could be a great story. That could be a trilogy by itself.
Instead, that will be a tiny part of a single movie that will be focused on stupid tricks like lava surfing.