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It's funny. Laugh. Media Government The Courts News

MST3K Rightsholders Sue Over Theater Commentary 312

Posted by timothy from the no-that-is-not-your-style-because-it-is-ours dept.
An anonymous reader writes "How can people who parody people sue people who parody them? Mr. Sinus is being sued by Best Brains Inc. the owners of the rights to Mystery Science Theatre 3000 because they are using a name/format that is too similar to their own. Here is the story." Evil thought: Apple should include a "three silhouettes yakking on merged soundtrack" mode in iMovie.
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MST3K Rightsholders Sue Over Theater Commentary More

MST3K Rightsholders Sue Over Theater Commentary

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  • Um, because. (Score:5, Informative)

    by MoxCamel ( 20484 ) * on Wednesday September 01, 2004 @04:05PM (#10131855)
    How can people who parody people sue people who parody them?

    That's an easy one. Because the people who are being sued are not parodying them. They're blatantly using the MST3k formula. At one point they even called the show "Mister Sinus Theater 3000." They also tried to license rights to MST3k. They knew what they were doing. Duh.

    Now, can we get back to feeling sorry for people that steal music please?

    • Re:Um, because. (Score:5, Funny)

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 01, 2004 @04:12PM (#10131934)
      How can people who parody people sue people who parody them?

      Can we parody people who sue us? It might be fun to get a group together and taunt lawyers in court. It would probably make jury duty more fun, too.

    • Re:Um, because. (Score:3, Interesting)

      by ahsile ( 187881 )
      Exactly. Parody is still covered under copyright laws. Therefore a copy of a parody is still breaking the law.

    • For Free Publicity? (Score:5, Insightful)

      by rwiedower ( 572254 ) on Wednesday September 01, 2004 @04:14PM (#10131954) Homepage
      Mallon says Best Brains declined the licensing, but that Alamo and the comedians did not want to stop using the "Mystery Science Theater 3000" likeness. "We just want them to stop using our name," he says.

      They should just call it Austin Theater and leave it at that. It was their instance on keeping the MST3k name that got Best Brains angry. The name "Mister Sinus" is obscure enough to cause confusion to anyone who didn't get the MST3K reference, which would be unnecessary unless they were just trying to drum up publicity. Oh, wait...

    • ...I'd understand this. Does this mean that Best Brains has plans for the future?! God, I hope so!

      • Um, they're doing just fine selling new releases of old episodes, why do they need new material to defend what they currently hold--much of which hasn't been released yet? As long as sites like DAPCentral (use google) are honorable and don't distribute episodes that are commercially available, they just help the brand, and won't get spanked. If you RTFA, you'll note that Mallon's beef is that these guys are taking the MST3K format and using it for more "adult" humor, and still want to trade on the idea th

    • Re:Um, because. (Score:5, Funny)

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 01, 2004 @04:17PM (#10131994)
      Now, can we get back to feeling sorry for people that steal music please?

      I know what you mean! My cousin downloaded the mp3s for Metallica's latest album, and now nobody else can listen to it.

      • Re:Um, because. (Score:5, Funny)

        by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 01, 2004 @04:40PM (#10132237)
        My cousin downloaded the mp3s for Metallica's latest album, and now nobody else can listen to it.

        Please thank your cousin on my behalf. The world is a better place because of him.

        • Re:Um, because. (Score:3, Funny)

          by mccoma ( 64578 )
          My cousin downloaded the mp3s for Metallica's latest album, and now nobody else can listen to it.

          --Please thank your cousin on my behalf. The world is a better place because of him.

          while your thanking your cousin, please tell him / her to download any song that has been played 50 times in a day on a Clear Channel radio station. It will be fun listening to them pick some new music.

    • Re:Um, because. (Score:5, Interesting)

      by Fnkmaster ( 89084 ) on Wednesday September 01, 2004 @04:24PM (#10132071)
      They aren't suing for the parody in the usual sense (with respect to copyrighted material), they are suing for trademark infringement. Parody is an affirmative defense for trademark infringement [patentfla.com], but it's apparently very narrow in scope, more so than the copyright infringement defense.


      This isn't such a clear cut case - are they really trying to parody Mystery Science Theater 3000 or are they trying to sell tickets to their live show which uses a similar format and trade off of the MS3TK brand name?


      So as far as I can tell, as long as they don't use a name that is deceptively similar to "Mystery Science Theater 3000" or "MST3K" they are probably fine. "Mister Sinus" or "Mister Sinus Theater" is probably still deceptively similar. Nobody is trying to stop them from doing their show under some other name. So... they would have to convince a judge that they are really making a parody of MST3K itself, AND that what they do does not carry a substantial chance of being confused with the original (i.e. something endorsed by the original company), AND that their use of adult material does not run a substantial risk of harming the business of the MST3K people.


      Alright, now back to our normal business of feeling sorry for people who steal music.

      • I don't see what about "Mister Sinus" is NOT parodic. Yes it might confuse people who are not familiar with MST3K but if they're not familiar with it to begin with, that just means they won't get the parody; it doesn't mean that they will start buying "Mister Sinus" products thinking they are "Mystery Science" products. "Mister Sinus" is obviously a parody, and obviously not an attempt to be deceptive. "Mister Science" maybe is questionable but not Mister freakin Sinus! You don't lose your right to paro

        • Re:"deceptively similar"??? (Score:5, Informative)

          by rjstanford ( 69735 ) on Wednesday September 01, 2004 @05:32PM (#10132761) Homepage Journal
          I don't see what about "Mister Sinus" is NOT parodic.

          Their name may be parodic. Their act (I live in Austin) is damn near identical. If it was a true parody, they would be doing a send-up of people who made fun of movies. They're not. They're making fun of movices themselves, just like the MST3K people do. That's the difference.

          Look at it this way. Creating a mock product called Queen-ex that proported to be a way to remove makeup from people in drag with amusing side effects like automatically applying facial hair? That's a parody. Creating a product called Queenex that's a facial tissue? That's trademark infringement, plain and simple.

          Besides, say out loud, "I'm going to go and see the Mr. Sinus Theatre guys as they make fun of Top Gun." If someone heard you say that, and wasn't a regular Alamo Drafthouse attendee, they'd think that you were talking about MST3K. Worse, what about, "I went to see the Mr. Sinus Theatre people do Top Gun, and it sucked balls." Same problem, but now with a negative connetation that's not Best Brains' fault. That's what the Best Brains folks don't want happening.

          For the record, the Mr. Sinus sendup of Top Gun rocks. It was just an example.

    • Re:Um, because. (Score:5, Interesting)

      by Gooba42 ( 603597 ) <gooba42@ g m a i l .com> on Wednesday September 01, 2004 @04:24PM (#10132073)
      It's the JibJab argument about the definition of parody in a copyright sense.

      A parody is a derivative work which pokes fun at the original work. If this was making fun of MST3k then it is a parody. Since it is only imitating MST3k rather than parodying it, they have grounds on which to sue.
    • Using a formula dosen't matter unless they are violating a patent.

      If there is a name conflict, then there is a trademark case, but otherwise, get over it.

      I suppose there should be no more puppet shows because somebody originally thought to hang a doll from strings.

      I liked MST3K as much as the next geek, and I hope that they will make new content in the future. On the other hand, you can't just go letting others people's rights be infringed just becase you like the one group's production better.

      • Re:Um, because. (Score:3, Insightful)

        by DunbarTheInept ( 764 )

        If there is a name conflict, then there is a trademark case, but otherwise, get over it.
        Did you RTFA? Best Brains isn't asking them to change their format. They're asking them to stop using their name for it - specificially becuase it's a trademark issue. (The complaint is that the show "Mister Sinus Theatre 3000" is blatantly meant to cash in on the Best Brains trademark, but it's being attached to a show that Best Brains doesn't want their name attached to.)

        It's not a case of "stop doing this thing

    • Re:Um, because. (Score:3, Interesting)

      by NanoGator ( 522640 )
      "Now, can we get back to feeling sorry for people that steal music please?"

      I thought we were worried about the people downloading music that haven't been proven to have actually stolen any.

    • Re:Um, because. (Score:2, Insightful)

      by ackthpt ( 218170 ) *
      They're blatantly using the MST3k formula.

      Aside from having a name too close to the original, the idea is hardly original. How many times have you sat in a Saturday afternoon matinee and heard a few jokers in the front moking the film? (Ok, maybe never happened to you, but has to me and occasionally I've been one of them.)

      "Togehter I shall rule the world!" -- Tom Servo

      BTW, didn't the original guy who did this show get screwed by rightsholders?

      • Re:Um, because. (Score:3, Insightful)

        by geminidomino ( 614729 ) *
        BTW, didn't the original guy who did this show get screwed by rightsholders?

        I missed Joel too. Mike just wasnt as funny in delivery. Maybe because Joel always had that "just rolled out of bed after three hours of sleep and smoked a joint" delivery.

      • Re:Um, because. (Score:5, Informative)

        by Dun Malg ( 230075 ) on Wednesday September 01, 2004 @06:02PM (#10133095) Homepage
        BTW, didn't the original guy who did this show get screwed by rightsholders?

        Apparently not. From the official MST3K site [mst3kinfo.com]: (boldface added by me)

        Q: Why did Joel leave MST3K?
        A: Hodgson, who had created the series and labored on it ceaselessly for five years, asked off the show, pleading burnout. In the press release announcing his departure, Hodgson summed it up by saying:

        "It's time for me to hang up my red jump suit and move behind the camera. Besides, there's an old show business adage I once heard Adam West say: 'Stay in the same costume and before you know it, you end up signing pictures at an R.V. show.' Maybe it was Clayton Moore, now that I think of it."

        Q: When he left the show, didn't they say that Joel was going to continue working behind the scenes? But that never happened. Why?
        A: Yes, the press release about Joel's departure did say that Joel would "remain a member of the MST3K writing team and...also direct several episodes." Best Brains staffers later said that was the intention, but, as they tell it, almost immediately Joel got an opportunity to work on some other projects in Los Angeles, and he plunged into work on them. He soon was working full-time there on these other projects, and found there was no time to return to Minneapolis. Eventually, Joel had only a financial stake in the series, but no longer offered creative input.

        Q: I've heard rumors that Joel was fired and that there was bad blood between him and the rest of the cast and crew.
        A: Joel could not be fired. He was the show's creator. No one could have made him leave if he hadn't wanted to go.
        Although he covered as best he could during his time on the show, those that know him well say Joel is a shy person who was very uncomfortable in front of the camera, and was even more uncomfortable with his growing fame. Joel also reportedly prefers creating concepts to the day-to-day work of maintaining them. Once a project is up and running, those close to him say, he likes to move on to a new creation. "I want to become a behind-the-camera guy," Joel explained when he left. "I want to get on to the NEXT weird show. I want to bean idea man."
        Jim Mallon, however, resisted Joel's attempts to step away from the series, and felt it was Joel's responsibility, as host, to devote himself to the MST3K franchise. Ultimately the two parted ways. In retrospect, we think all sides now realize it was a healthy change for the series, and all the former cast members are on good terms with one another. That was certainly apparent during Joel's 1998 visit to the BBI studios to shoot his appearances in episode 1001- SOULTAKER. The authors of this FAQ were present at the taping, and Joel and the current cast got along comfortably and there was no tension at all during the taping.

    • You bring up a point I was specifically going to comment on. Being from Austin, and having friends who are fans of the Mr. Sinus Theater, I had to actually come to the defense of the MST3K producers.

      One point was what you brought up. The other point is, even though they use the same format, which I don't see as an egregious error, the title is obviously ripped from the MST3k title, even without the 3000 in it.

      That being said, apparently the MST3k people didn't respond to some suggestions the Mr. Sinus guy

    • Re:Um, because. (Score:3, Informative)

      by Stargoat ( 658863 )
      MST3k stole that formula from Svengoolie in Chicago. He was doing the same thing back in the 70s. [svengoolieweb.com]

      They have even admitted to taking the idea from the Svengoolie show. I've noticed Richard Koz is not suing anyone.

  • Muppets From Space? (Score:4, Interesting)

    by PythonCodr ( 731083 ) * on Wednesday September 01, 2004 @04:06PM (#10131867)

    Does this mean that Disney licensed the MST3K parody commentary bit for their DVD's commentary track on Muppets From Space?

  • Not exactly... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Meostro ( 788797 ) * on Wednesday September 01, 2004 @04:07PM (#10131868) Homepage Journal
    Presentations of Mr. Sinus, which was previously known as Mr. Sinus Theater 3000, have Pollet, Egerton and Erler sitting in the cinema's front row, poking fun at chosen movies by making silly comments and signing songs.

    I have to say that in this case, I agree that the big corporation is probably in the right. Three guys trying to cash in on MST3K fame, literally using the same acronym and doing the exact same thing, heckling bad movies. They're not making fun of MST3K, they're just ripping off their format.

    While I would certainly watch, and probably laugh heartily, methinks they might lose this one.

    Alamo Drafthouse approached us maybe about a year ago about licensing Mr. Sinus

    This is interesting because the Drafthouse apparently saw the similarity and tried to nip it in the bud (a.k.a. cover their ass) with a license, but is still presenting the group and allowing them to continue with the same format/name.
    • "But the more we looked into it, the less comfortable we felt about it. The way they represent their product is different than the way we do ours. Ours is really more for any viewer, while they seemed to be going in a different direction creatively."

      Seems like saying this publicly was a bad idea. If Best Brains Inc is going to claim that Mr Sinus Theater 3000 is too much like Mystery Science Theater 3000, publicly claiming they did not accept the licensing becuase it was not enough like the original migh
      • (IANAL)(BITIOSGH*)

        *But I think I'm on safe grounds here.

        Just about all imitations involve two things that are very alike in some ways and yet very different in others. Judges (are supposed to)look at just which areas are similar, and in a lawsuit over copyright, trademark, or patent, normally expect all parties to admit that some are and some aren't. Then the imitator claims that the differences are the important areas and the originator claims that the similarities are the important thing, and the judge
      • They tried to license the NAME which was the only thing they needed to license. The format for MST3K was certainly not very original... merely the implementation.

        In fact, the Mr. Sinus guys mailed off a list of possible name changes and never got a response from Best Brains, Inc. and then, poof, lawsuit. Not very classy of Best Brains, either, especially toward a group that sees itself as a tribute to MST3K in a lot of ways (ever heard their theme song?).

        -l

        long-time John Erler fan

    • Re:Not exactly... (Score:3, Insightful)

      by addie ( 470476 )
      You're right on legal grounds, of course. But there are several reasons why I don't think this should be a big deal:

      1) The show is no longer on the air
      2) The Mr.Sinus group is playing at a theatre, not distributing to a wide audience
      3) The concept, while obviously funny, already owes a great deal of its success to the fact that it used someone else's material to parody

      Although the MST3K group has a right to their concept, this looks more to me like a group grabbing for money instead of taking pride in th

      • Re:Not exactly... (Score:5, Insightful)

        by Babbster ( 107076 ) <aaronbabb&gmail,com> on Wednesday September 01, 2004 @04:48PM (#10132296) Homepage
        If the Austin group was called, say, "Front Row Players" or "Commentastic" this suit wouldn't exist. Instead, the group currently calls themselves "Mr. Sinus" which was gleaned from their first name which was "Mr. Sinus Theater 3000." In other words, they were, and are, trading on the familiar name in order to promote their product which is itself more than similar to the original product.

        Best Brains isn't claiming to own the rights to making funny comments over movies. They aren't even claiming to own the rights to silhouetted heads in front of a movie screen making funny comments about movies. They're claiming to own their trademark (which is still active) and object to someone diluting same. That's what you do if you want to retain a trademark - they have to be AGGRESSIVELY defended or they can be lost.

    • Re:Not exactly... (Score:3, Informative)

      by Jason One ( 669711 )
      I have to say that in this case, I agree that the big corporation is probably in the right.

      Best Brains is not a "big corporation." Ever since MST3K was cancelled, Best Brains basically just sells merchandise and licenses the occasional episode to Rhino for VHS/DVD release. As far as I know, they currently consist of about three people, including Jim Mallon (president of the company, formerly a producer for the show and the original voice of Gypsy).

      This is hardly a case of a huge behemoth looking to crush
    • "I have to say that in this case, I agree that the big corporation is probably in the right."

      Can we really call MST3K the big corporation?

      I remember watching a behind the scenes special on the Sci-Fi Channel during the last season of MST3K. On this special the viewer was given a backstage tour of the set, and they proudly displayed the new equipment that Sci-Fi had bought them. This earth-shattering new device was.... A Light!

      I think the real issue here is that it is a blatant rip-off of format with co
    • I have to say that in this case, I agree that the big corporation is probably in the right.

      I agree with you wholeheartedly, but it whould probably be pointed out that Best Brains Inc. is hardly a big corp. From the Satellite News [mst3kinfo.com] (official MST3K) web site:

      Best Brains Inc. seems to have become a company whose only business is the sales of MST3K merchandise and memorabilia. The only people on staff are Jim Mallon, controller Tim Johnson and Barb Tebben.

    • Re:Not exactly... (Score:3, Insightful)

      by EvilJohn ( 17821 )
      But again, it's not that simple. Best Brains flouted "keep circulating the tapes", so they can hardly make a legal case about the format of what they're doing. Heckling movies is a time honored tradtion, and these guys do it LIVE, not on tape.

      The Alamo Drafthouse approached BBI about the licensing of the NAME, not the format. Mr Sinus Theather 3000 is close, and yes actionable, but just plain Mr Sinus? I have my doubts about that.

    • Re:Not exactly... (Score:3, Insightful)

      by ruiner5000 ( 241452 )
      Funny, but no one had ever heckled or made fun of crappy movies before, had they? These guys started because Sci Fi canceled MST3K. MST3K didn't do it live, they didn't do modern movies, they didn't do it with a live interactive audience, at Quakecon. In reality these guys continuing this are driving DVD sales for MST3K. Otherwise sometimes being in a 8AM Saturday morning time slot isn't doing much for you. Being in front of 4,000 Quakecon attendees gets a whole new group of fans for MST3K. All this
  • Narrator: "The Screaming Skull" is a motion picture that reaches its climax in shocking horror.

    Mike Nelson: ...But we cut that.

    Narrator: This climax is so terrifying that it may have an unforeseen effect. It may kill you.

    Tom Servo: If you watch it in front of a moving bus.

  • Sue us all (Score:2, Insightful)

    by MikeMacK ( 788889 )
    The lawsuit centers around the comedy troupe's portrayal of the "Mystery Science Theater 3000" format

    That format would be sitting in a theater and making fun of a bad movie? Guess they better start suing most groups of teenagers I've ever seen at a movie

    • That format would be sitting in a theater and making fun of a bad movie? Guess they better start suing most groups of teenagers I've ever seen at a movie

      I actually experienced something almost like MST3k when I went and saw Jason X. It was soooo bad and over the top that it was funny. There were only a handfull of us in the theatre, as it was a matinee, and everyone was openly laughing at and commenting on the movie.

      It was fun/funny as hell.

  • different takes (Score:3, Insightful)

    by seringen ( 670743 ) on Wednesday September 01, 2004 @04:10PM (#10131905)
    i think it's fair enough that he doesn't want them to use the Mystery Science Theatre 3000 name since it's more adult themed than MST3K is. I wouldn't mind showing MST3K to pretty much any kid, so their recalcitrance to license it seems completely reasonable. There's no patent on commenting on movies (yet) so the austin people should just change their schtik a little.

  • Evil thought: Apple should include ... (Score:5, Funny)

    by AzrealAO ( 520019 ) on Wednesday September 01, 2004 @04:10PM (#10131907)
    Evil thought: Apple should include a "three silhouettes yakking on merged soundtrack" mode in iMovie.

    That would probably be fine, as long as they didn't call it "Merged Silhouettes Theatre 3000" or MST3K for short.
  • ...if these Austinites consistently make fun of Renaissance Festivals.

  • Speaking As a Local (Score:4, Informative)

    by the darn ( 624240 ) on Wednesday September 01, 2004 @04:12PM (#10131926) Homepage
    These guys are the best...I've seen them abuse Masters of the Universe, Dirty Dancing, and Top Gun. The Xmas Clip Show is supposed to be INSANE. I always have wondered how they manage to get away with the name in this litigious age, though. It seems not even comedy is safe from stupidity.
    • I've never watch it the same way again.

      The only one that sucked was Xanadu. That movie is so bad that even Mr. Sinus couldn't save it.

      Oh, and they flew in the guy that played opposite ON-J for the screening. Boy, how bad does your career have to suck to actually take a gig appearing at show making fun of your only big movie?

    • Re:Speaking As a Local (Score:4, Insightful)

      by Performer Guy ( 69820 ) on Wednesday September 01, 2004 @04:53PM (#10132336)
      Yep not even comedy like Mystery Science Theatre is safe from being ripped off by people who can't even come up with their own parody format.

      • Re:Speaking As a Local (Score:3, Insightful)

        by landley ( 9786 )
        You mean like "What's up Tiger Lilly" predating MST3K by many years...

        The Mr. Sinus guys do witty commentary about movies. Woo. Google for "Wizard People, Dear Readers" for somebody else doing the same thing to Harry Potter and the Sorceror's Stone. (You can download the MP3 to play along with the movie.) A group called "The Yuppie Pricks" does it to the movie "Office Space" down at the drafthouse from time to time too.

        The Sinus guys _don't_ have fake plastic robot hand puppets, they don't have a fake

  • Definition of parody. (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Performer Guy ( 69820 ) on Wednesday September 01, 2004 @04:12PM (#10131929)
    I don't think they're parodying a parody, they're just flat out ripping off someone elses parody.

  • Having seen two Mr. Sinus shows, I gotta say this seems bogus to me. What business are they losing here, exactly? People are going to spend money to go to a Mr. Sinus show instead of paying for and old episode of MST3K on DVD? Yeah, right.

    If they used robots, or filmed it, or if the show were still being made (or even aired on TV), BBI may have a leg to stand on, but it seems to me they're just trying to cash in on some good fans here.
    • RTFA - it's not about direct (competitive) loss of earnings, it's about loss of reputation due to the "adult type humour" in the version that's being passed off...
    • I kind of agree (with your disagreement)... MST3K was made in my home town and I've been a fan club member (#18624) since I was in 5th grade. My letter I wrote to join the club must have taken less than a few hours to get to Hopkins from Eden Prairie. So I instinctively want to side with Best Brains on this point... but I really can't.

      I really wish they would consider this an homage and not be litigious about it... I don't think these Mr. Sinus people were intending to rip off Best Brains... and it's not

  • How many people are going to read the article? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by chuckgrosvenor ( 473314 ) on Wednesday September 01, 2004 @04:14PM (#10131953) Homepage
    Probably none, including the person who posted the article, and the people who approved it.

    They deliberately used the name of the show (the acronym) and approached the owners for the rights. They weren't doing a parody of the show format, they were attempting to capitalize on it.

    Not the same thing as just doing a commentary, or even a Rocky Horror Picture Show type presentation (which let's face it, is what MST3K rips off in the first place to some extent).

  • jeez (Score:5, Insightful)

    by veritron ( 637136 ) on Wednesday September 01, 2004 @04:14PM (#10131955)
    Mr. Sinus and Mystery Science are one syllable and a slight intonation apart from each other - pronounce both names out loud, the names of the groups are almost identical. If you're going to almost exactly steal someone's idea, don't do it like these guys did. If the guys who made Mister Sinus don't get their asses kicked in court, something's wrong with copyright law.

    • Re:jeez (Score:3, Informative)

      by Babbster ( 107076 )
      You're absolutely right, except for your closing statement. It's not copyright law, it's trademark law. The boys behind MST3k probably wouldn't even be suing if it weren't for the fact that if they let it go, especially knowing all about the group, they could eventually lose their trademark (unlike copyright which requires no active defense to maintain).
  • that they have every right to sue. It's clear from Sinus's actions that they're overstepping: Mr. Sinus Theater 3000 (MST3K)? Come on.

    It's not that difficult to do your own take on the mocking movies. They're trying to piggyback on the good will towards the real MST3K.

  • obvious (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Custard ( 587661 ) on Wednesday September 01, 2004 @04:18PM (#10132005) Homepage Journal
    "We just want them to stop using our name," he says.

    Okay, those comedians are dumb for choosing such an obviously similar name. I have no sympathy for them; they should change it immediately. They could call themselves "Three Jackasses".

  • Now they know how Joe Don Baker felt! (Score:5, Insightful)

    by payndz ( 589033 ) on Wednesday September 01, 2004 @04:20PM (#10132029)
    "Yeah? Yeah? Not so funny now, is it, punks! *gasp, wheeze* Oh man, ah need to sit down and have a beer an' a burrito, catch ma breath..."

    Seriously, though, I'm with Best Brains on this one. If you're going to rip off the MST3K format (*cough*BeavisandButthead*cough*), at least do something different with it (*cough*BeavisandButthead*cough* - oh, wait, I didn't need to cough that time). Even the name of this group is taking the piss! 'Mr Sinus Theater 3000'? What, do they call themselves Mick Napoleon, Blackbird R Tobor and Tim Smallmotor?

  • The Greater Good (Score:5, Funny)

    by Ray Radlein ( 711289 ) on Wednesday September 01, 2004 @04:22PM (#10132052) Homepage

    When I first read the headline, "MST3K Rightsholders Sue Over Theater Commentary," I thought that perhaps Best Brains had decided to sue anyone who talked in the theater while a movie was being shown.

    Kind of a shame, really -- they had the makings of a wonderful Class Action lawsuit against Obnoxious Yapping Assholes.

    • Sadly, while a class of plaintiffs can file a lawsuit against an individual or corporation, there's still no way to file a lawsuit against an entire class of defendents.

      I think I see a new goal for Tort Reform. It would be wonderful to be able to sue entire groups of annoying people, then have lawyers track them all down to collect fines and bankrupt them all. Sure, the lawyers would end up with billions of dollars and the person filing the lawsuit would get a $5 rebate coupon, but it would be worth th

  • Let's just be honest. As I see it, Joel Hodgson and his pals were probably high on weed and/or acid and just getting back from a Rocky Horror viewing (where he performed as 'Riff-Raff'), when he had a revelation. Why not apply audience participation to an old, crappy movie?!

    I'm not minimizing the effect of that revelation (I would NEVER have watched half of those, or even known of their existance otherwise), but like most great ideas, this concept started out in other similar forms. I'd be interesting to s
  • Since WHEN did MST3K (which I loved) have a "copyright" over three people sitting in a theatre making fun of movies?

    Mr. Sinus only vaguely sounds like Mystery Science and that is about as close as it gets. This is like suing a band named "The Bartles" because it sounded "pretty damn close" to the "The Beatles". Never mind the fact NO ONE would be confused.

    At best, "Best Brains" only has the right to sue them if they are ripping off their material. Suing them for something that is vaguely similar only make

  • Reference Humor (Score:2, Interesting)

    by MikeMacK ( 788889 )
    He says Mr. Sinus' lean toward adult-type humor goes against the spirit of MST3K.

    True, the spirit of MST3K was always "reference" humor, it was amazing how many inside references they could get in one show.

  • Same/Different (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Luyseyal ( 3154 ) <swaters@NoSpAM.luy.info> on Wednesday September 01, 2004 @04:26PM (#10132095) Homepage
    Mr. Sinus vaguely follows the format of 3 individuals making fun of a movie. Making fun of movies in public has been done since, what, probably the 1890s? Another poster mentioned Rocky Horror.

    Mr. Sinus uses no characters from MST3K. If MST3K thought the idea of making fun of movies was original, they should have filed a business method patent. So, MST3K's only real problem is a possible confusion of names, thus, Mr. Sinus' dropping the "Theatre 3000". Consequently, while Mr. Sinus is a partial tribute to MST3K, as is evident from their theme song, it doesn't violate any of MST3K's rights.

    Frankly, I'm highly disappointed in Best Brains, Inc. Apparently, they're not using their namesake.

    -l
  • How strange and scary!

    Are they ripping of the format? I don't know, hell I don't care.

    If the first stand up comedian would have patented his bit that would have set us back a few laughs. Wouldn't it.

    Ever seen the amazing resemblance between Richard Pryor and Eddy Murphy's stand up bits? Ever seen the similarities between Dennis Leary and Bill Hicks? Ever really looked at Lenny Bruce and seen the groundwork for everything that came after that?

    All entertainers start out by copying there idols. Onl

  • Best Brains Inc. - Hardly a Major Corporation (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 01, 2004 @04:29PM (#10132128)
    For those who gripe about this being another big corporation squelching the little guy, you should know that last I heard, Best Brains was Jim Mallon (the producer of the show) and some office staff. They are the littlest of guys, and because of rights issues (which they respect), they can't distribute a good chunk of their own show's run. So protecting what little they have doesn't seem out of hand to me.

  • Interesting (Score:4, Informative)

    by antifoidulus ( 807088 ) on Wednesday September 01, 2004 @04:30PM (#10132134) Homepage Journal
    that they are suing over this, but have given their blessings to The Digital Archive Project [dapcentral.org] which encodes and shares the shows that were not released commerically on DVD.
    I remember a quote from Kevin Murphy(one of the few founding members of the show to stay with it the whole time) "Ideas are free my friend"
  • They're suing them not over the format, they're suing because they're calling it Mr. Sinus Theatre 3000.

    Seems to me that's pretty clear cut. Change the name!

  • Evil thought: Apple should include a "three silhouettes yakking on merged soundtrack" mode in iMovie.

    I like that idea (if they can do it in such a way as to not infringe on MST3Ks rights, whatever those might be).

    It would be a great way to do MST3K-format parodies of regular high-budget films without infringing the copyright of those high-budget films - you would have to buy the original, then watch it with overlaid video and audio. It's even good for sales of the movie being parodied.

    Can you imagine

  • Wow, what a backlash (Score:4, Informative)

    by PhracturedBlue ( 224393 ) on Wednesday September 01, 2004 @04:37PM (#10132215)
    Seeing as how Mr. Sinus is local to Austin, most people here will never have seen it. However, the comments here are relaly harsh. Did they rip off the concept? Yes. Did they rip off the name? Yes. But to claim that MST3K should have exclusive rights to poking fun at a movie is absurd. These guys pay hommage to MST3K in their intro, the show is somewhat interactive, has a decent comedy routine in the middle, and is certainly original (they do lots of movies the MST3K guys would never touch) While I lived in Austin, I saw every Mr. Sinus show, and they are generally hillarious (Red Dawn was one of my personal favorites, the Village People Special was probably the worst of the bunch). They started doing the show after MST3K was pulled from the air. The show is mostly for adults, as there is almost always adult humor and language (The Christmas Specials bring this to an extreme). They are a comedy troupe doing original work in a stylistic format. And it is pretty damn funny.
  • They all have several heads in front of the screen. While I get sued?

  • I wish people would actualy read the artical... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 01, 2004 @04:39PM (#10132234)
    its fun!

    MST3k isnt suing because they are using the format, they are suing because they practicaly used the same name and then tried to make money. They knew exaclty what they were doing because they actualy tried to obtain licensing and mst3k rejected it because they did not like the way that mst3k would be portrayed. This isnt a parody of mst3k, its somone stealing the mst3k format and using it to make money.
  • Until right now, I didn't know anything about Mister Sinus. Now I do. Perhaps that was the intention all along. Hey, it worked for Lindows...

  • Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)

    by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Wednesday September 01, 2004 @04:52PM (#10132326)
    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  • Alamo Drafthouse rocks! (Score:3, Interesting)

    by hng_rval ( 631871 ) on Wednesday September 01, 2004 @05:47PM (#10132918)
    This is by far the best theater I have ever been to. They serve food and drinks, including alcohol, while you watch the movie.

    Some of my best movie-watching experiences were at the drafthouse in Austin this summer. We went there to see Dodgeball, and before the movie they had a cage setup outside where they held a dodgeball tournament. Our technically inclined team got its butt kicked, but we had fun nonetheless.

    They held a special pre-screening of Harold and Kumar go to White Castle. They had a road rally scavenger hunt where we listened to clues on a CD and had to visit places all over Austin and call in for more clues when we got there. The last place in the road rally was a secret location where they were screening the film.

    We got all the White Castle burgers we could eat (not many, they're disgusting) and after the movie the stars and writers came on stage to answer questions and chat about the movie.

    I heard they did a special screening of Open Water on Lake Travis where you watched the movie while dangling your legs in the water.

    The Mr. Sinus stuff is clearly a trademark infringement, and it's meant to be. It's too bad that Best Brains won't let them use the name, because it is a pretty clever parody and has built up a pretty strong brand in Austin. To go to a Mr. Sinus show you have to order tickets online at least a day in advance. Hopefully they can change the name to something decent and keep the brand with something like "Sinus Live".

  • Mr. Sinus Kicks MST3K's Ass (Score:3, Interesting)

    by smcdow ( 114828 ) on Wednesday September 01, 2004 @06:04PM (#10133113) Homepage
    Disclaimer: I live in Austin, and I've seen both MST3K and Mr. Sinus.

    Verdict: Mr. Sinus kicks MST3K to the curb. No contest.

    Regarding the lawsuit, Mr. Sinus is a LIVE show, and MST3K was taped and rebroadcast. This is enough of a difference to throw out any "stealing the format" argument. When MST3K goes live (and goes live in your neighborhood movie theater), then there may be overlap issues. Until then, these shows have two very different formats.

  • Now I see about errors in the articles (Score:3, Insightful)

    by rfc1394 ( 155777 ) <Paul@paul-robinson.us> on Wednesday September 01, 2004 @07:39PM (#10133832) Homepage Journal
    The issue in the original item that the above article refers to is not that the people at Sinus are doing a parody of Mystery Science Theatre 3000, nor is it because they are doing a type of parody where they pick on some movie, the issue is that they apparently are using the same or a similar name to "Mystery Science Theatre 3000."

    Now I understand why people complain about errors in the articles on /.

  • Further information (Score:3, Informative)

    by MilenCent ( 219397 ) <johnwh@gmai[ ]om ['l.c' in gap]> on Wednesday September 01, 2004 @09:11PM (#10134450) Homepage
    1. Mister Sinus is in the wrong, period. It's perfectly okay to make fun of movies in the Mystery Science style, but it's not okay to rip off their name. Maybe it would be if this were parody, but the thing being parodied is not MST, it's the movies, so that defense will probably collapse. To the guy who said Mister Sinus, in terms of quality, "kicks MST to the curb," I have to respond: I seriously doubt it.

    2. The Mystery Science style has been seen in a non-MST DVD before. Take a look at the director's commentary on Ghostbusters some day. Rather slick, if jittery.

    3. Best Brains has implied that copying episodes is okay, with "Keep circulating the tapes" in the credits of earlier episodes. Kevin Murphy, voice of Tom Servo and author of A Year At The Movies (which is GREAT, by the way) has condoned internet episode distribution in an interview (but it should be said that he is no longer a Best Brains employee, and wasn't one when he said it). But most fans, and distribution systems such as the DAP [dapcentral.org], refuse to trade episodes that can currently be purchsed. There are almost ten times as many episodes that aren't available as are, and some of the best ones (like the Gamera series and the other Japanese movies brought to the US by Sandy Frank Enterprises) will probably never be made available for official purchase because of rights issues surrounding the movie.

    But there is one really cool thing about all this: MST3K still has the cultural mindshare, among geeks at least, to make the front page on Slashdot! Cause for some celebration, perhaps.

  • Fair Lawsuit... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by evilviper ( 135110 ) on Thursday September 02, 2004 @04:42AM (#10136621) Journal
    I certainly don't think anybody could win a lawsuit, if they were claiming they invented the format of people in a theatre mocking a bad film, but MST3K does have a solid lawsuit. Why? Tradmark!

    Is it hard to see the problem with calling your show "Mr. Sinus Theater 3000"? Maybe if he left off the "3000" it wouldn't be quite so obvious, but as is, it's obviously infringing on their trademark.

    Next on the block, let's create a company that sells computers, and call them "Kom Pack".

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