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Music Businesses Media Media (Apple)

Business Models: Napster to Go vs. iPod 517

CNet offers an interesting comparison between Napster to Go and iTunes. For $15 a month, Napster to Go offers over 1 million songs (access to which lasts as long as subscription is valid), while songs for iPod must be purchased and last 'forever' (but it takes about $10,000 to fill an iPod). Is Napster to Go the future of digital music distribution? Would moving to an all-you-can-eat model hurt iPod business and balance the power among authors, studios, hardware makers and consumers?" It might take $10,000 to fill an iPod with songs downloaded from iTunes or with music converted to MP3 from newly purchased CDs, but there's a lot of downloadable and legit free music out there, not to mention Griffin's RadioShark.
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Business Models: Napster to Go vs. iPod

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  • by aichpvee ( 631243 ) on Sunday March 20, 2005 @08:56PM (#11994156) Journal
    Just get on the Napster 14 day free trial and convert their stuff to mp3.
    • by A Drake Man ( 809441 ) on Sunday March 20, 2005 @09:09PM (#11994254)
      But that 14 day FREE Trial only gives you 11 MB to download. It wasn't like that always, but once the news got around on Slashdot about how to rip the tracks, they shut it down.
    • by LokieLizzy ( 858962 ) on Sunday March 20, 2005 @09:37PM (#11994420)
      That was so last month. Napster enforced an 11mb-download limit for the 14-day trial after too much buzz spread about the winamp ripping device.
    • by ornil ( 33732 ) on Sunday March 20, 2005 @09:45PM (#11994474)
      If you are OK with breaking the law, you might just download whatever you want from P2P and skip the whole rigmarole.
    • by Skynyrd ( 25155 ) on Sunday March 20, 2005 @10:18PM (#11994694) Homepage
      I tried their 14 trial. What a turd.
      The interface is clunky, everything is slow, many songs (usually one from each album) isn't available unless you pay extra and the downloading is slow.

      I stopped using my 14 day trial about day 5.

      I might consider using a similar service, but it would have to be put together better and it would have to have a wider selection of music. For example, there's a band called X that I really like. They put out 6 or 7 albums, and only one of them is available on Napster. Sure, they aren't super current and they were never huge, but they were a big enough band that their catalog should be available.
  • DRM quality (Score:2, Insightful)

    how hard is it to ocnvert a file from napster to a cd or to mp3 where it is free of DRM?
    • Re:DRM quality (Score:5, Informative)

      by AnFraX ( 809909 ) on Sunday March 20, 2005 @09:05PM (#11994229) Homepage
      Pretty much all of the methods to remove DRM include re-encoding the WMA to something else. This takes even more quality from the recording than is already missing in the Napster version (they are encoded at 128kbps). Furthermore, it is damnned near impossible to do a digital re-encode nowadays. Microsoft has revoked the WMA-DRM licence from all the media players that allowed it to happen, including all but the most recent version of Winamp that only allows encrypted WMA output through DirectSound. No more using DSP plugins to write the data to the disk in a different format. The best you can hope for is something like Tunebite, which records the analog signal coming from your soundcard, which is not very good at all.
      • Re:DRM quality (Score:2, Informative)

        by Anonymous Coward
        There are still old Virtuosa trial versions floating around that'll do it. They take about 5 minutes to find on google.
      • Old Versions (Score:3, Informative)

        You can still get old versions of winamp at oldversion.com The Update to 5.08 was the fix to WMA-DRM.
      • Re:DRM quality (Score:5, Interesting)

        by rogueuk ( 245470 ) on Sunday March 20, 2005 @09:56PM (#11994529) Homepage
        It's a pain in the ass, but not very hard to write a program that records the DirectSound output.

        Hell, I wrote one that lets you queue up a list of files and then the program will tell winamp to play each file and it will record the DirectSound output. It basically does what the no longer working outputstacker plugins did.

        Of course the quality isn't going to be as good as some of the other services, but if you want a permanent copy of your "Napster music" instead of paying Napster $10-$15 each month for the privilege, you don't really have a choice.
      • Re:DRM quality (Score:4, Insightful)

        by mike518 ( 869465 ) on Monday March 21, 2005 @05:03AM (#11996963)
        hmmm... so let me get this straight...from what ive heard you cant keep the music only if you pay $15 a month, you cant even download all the songs from many albums (and many more albums are not available at all), you can only use the songs on certain players like from creative and dell (*cough* junk *cough*) and finally the songs are 128 bitrate WMA (mmm gotta love M$ style sub-tape quality encording). Not to mention that the program is clunky, slow and doesnt work with ipods (which has like 70%+ combined mp3 player market share)

        and they claim Itunes is bad?

        yeah... they are sure to win this fight, esspecially with their informative (aka stupid) commercials and trendy brightly ipod mini colored website (very original). "napster to go" is sure to sweep itunes and free p2p -- and then maybe it will cure cancer. /sarcasm

        Mike
    • Easy... you have a sound out port, a line in port, a short cable, and an audio recording utility. Quality may not be the best, but, hey, it works.
  • ...Or until they go bankrupt.

    It all sounds impressive to begin with but there are too many catches.
    • by nutshell42 ( 557890 ) on Sunday March 20, 2005 @09:58PM (#11994542) Journal
      So what? There'll be a new subscription-service-of-the-week around. You didn't buy anything so you don't lose anything.

      What happens if Apple goes bankrupt? No trolling, real interest because I don't know how it's handled. How are the certificates for the iTMS files managed? Do they have to be renewed? Can you transfer them from PC to PC without a central authority?

      • by MoneyT ( 548795 ) on Sunday March 20, 2005 @10:31PM (#11994797) Journal
        Certificates are local files, pulled from Apple servers. If Apple were to go bankrupt, assuming they didn't issue a universal authenticator or provide a method for removing the DRM, there are already programs to allow one to transfer their certificates without a net connection. Of course, even failing that, there's always the option to burn the files to audio CD and re-rip them.
      • by Leo McGarry ( 843676 ) on Monday March 21, 2005 @01:12AM (#11995686)
        What happens if Apple goes bankrupt is that you still have the CDs you made sitting on your shelf.

        The whole "what happens if they go bankrupt" argument is a giant waste of breath, because nobody in his right mind relies on encoded files. That's just dumb. The first thing everybody who buys music on line does is burn that music to CD. With iTunes, that's free. With Napster, it's an extra per-song fee on top of your $15 monthly charge.

        So all this talk about DRM is just a huge waste of energy. The real issue is cost. Napster costs more, period.
  • Small Print (Score:5, Interesting)

    by BWJones ( 18351 ) * on Sunday March 20, 2005 @09:01PM (#11994191) Homepage Journal
    John Gruber has good commentary on this here [daringfireball.net] and here [daringfireball.net] that cuts through the marketing to point out the small print.

  • I have been listening to this guy's work for a while now: http://www.hypnotyza.com/radio/ [hypnotyza.com] I'm not affiliated with the site at all, just stumbled across it while reading a message board. He's a DJ who mixes live to hardrive and puts up the shows (about an hour long) as mp3's. Interesting stuff.
  • by acomj ( 20611 ) on Sunday March 20, 2005 @09:01PM (#11994193) Homepage
    Judging from cable and satellite radio subscription fees just keep rising and rising.
    I would expect nothing less from the music rental services..

    I have a feeling that renting your music will be harder and harder to get stuff you want. (like some bands charging more than 9.99$ for an itunes album..)

    itunes "playlist" which users post there mixes is very clever. When you select a song, you can search for playlists with that song on it (more songs you might like..)

    However the napster "try" part is a way to discover new music I might or might not shell out cash for. Then again alot of bands have sites with free downloadable mp3s..

    If my free 3 month trial of XM radio has taught me anything (I bought a car), there is a lot of music out there I don't care for.

    • If my free 3 month trial of XM radio has taught me anything (I bought a car), there is a lot of music out there I don't care for.

      Your glass is half empty, mine is half full. If having XM has taught ME anything is that there is a lot music out there that I don't care for, but a whole lot that I DO care for. Sure, I'm probably only interested in less than 10% of the stations and of those only a fraction of the songs I hear do I really like, but that's still a HUGE number of artists that I wasn't aware of

  • by daveschroeder ( 516195 ) * on Sunday March 20, 2005 @09:01PM (#11994196)
    ...about Napster. Explicitly, anyway.

    Once you stop paying your $15/month or $180/year, which will likely become $17, and $20, and so on, in the future, you no longer have access to your music.

    If you want to keep it forever - or burn it to CD or use it on something other than an approved device - you have to buy it for a dollar. Just like with iTunes.

    Also, that money you're spending on Napster is 180 songs, or 18 albums per year, on the iTunes music store, that you get to keep forever. I suppose it just all depends on your usage style.

    That, and whether you want to use the hard-drive based music player with 92% market share.

    To say nothing of the fact that Apple will introduce a subscription plan if they need to, anyway.
    • That, and whether you want to use the hard-drive based music player with 92% market share.

      The ipod only had 92% of the hard-drive based mp3 player market. That's still a very small market. Maybe i'm out of touch living in Ottawa Canada, but I have seen very few people with ipods. walk down the street, and look at people who have portable music players. They are 90% they are CD players. Because this is the easiest and cheapest way for them to listen to their music. You can get them for about $40 now
    • sure they do ... (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Heisenbug ( 122836 ) on Sunday March 20, 2005 @09:30PM (#11994377)
      ... that's the same comment that gets posted on here every time a subscription music service comes up.

      The point could be equally well made about every other subscription service, though -- why rent city water that keeps getting more expensive and goes away when you stop paying, when, with a larger initial investment, you could dig your own well and have water forever?

      The answer is, gee, they both make sense in different situations. It depends *how much* more expensive the initial investment is than the subscription, and whether the specific resource you are buying will always be sufficient, or it would be better to have a provider committed to keeping new sources available.

      You acknowledged that it depends on your usage style, but I just wanted to drive this point home: pointing out that a subscription service stops when you stop paying for the subscription, and therefore is different from a one-time purchase, is no longer insightful. They're both different; they both make sense sometimes.

      Personally, I pay $100 per year for Rhapsody. For me it makes sense -- there's no way I could purchase enough music for $100 to satisfy my needs, and downloading music for free would cost me literally thousands of dollars in terms of time spent. If it doesn't make sense for you, fair enough -- but don't act like it's a blinding insight to point out that I'm renting rather than buying.
  • by Daniel_Staal ( 609844 ) <DStaal@usa.net> on Sunday March 20, 2005 @09:01PM (#11994197)
    Do we really want to pay for everything monthly for as long as we live?

    I don't mind a monthly fee for something I'll use within that month, or that has a time-based cost component, but you try to bill me monthly for something where I can pay once (even a higher up-front fee) and you'll lose my business. It's not worth it, long term.
  • by rnicey ( 315158 ) on Sunday March 20, 2005 @09:02PM (#11994205) Homepage
    It's worth mentioning that you can spend 99c / track at Napster too if you really like that model. So at Napster you have more choice. FWIW I think Napster is easier to use too.
  • by Nik13 ( 837926 )
    Didn't we already have an article on this (business model comparison), other than the "napster was cracked" one (where you can turn the crappy 128kbps stream into uncompressed WAVs and burn them).

    Either ways, 128kbps isn't enough, even on a cheap player with cheap earphones, you can easily tell the difference, no need to be an audiophile either...
  • Like most things in life, I prefer calling something mine. I will never rent my music.

    Besides that, who could really listen to all that music in the first place? I use my iPod for more than just playing music. My MP3 collection is 17 GB and even on shuffle I still hear things I haven't heard in years. The rest of the space is storage for files between work, home, and wherever else I am.

    1 million songs? It would take you close to 6 years to listen to all of that music.

  • I'm curious. Not counting Apple or Napster going out of business, what are the risks over time of changing your player? Is it likely or possible that you will 'loose' your music unless you intentionally break the DRM on all the songs you get?
    • This is beyond true.

      I know that apple's iTMS works only with the iPod as a digital media player. I currently own an iPod (albeit, the short-live iPod+HP), and am about to send it in for service (under warranty, thankfully) due to hard drive spin-up problems (or corrupted FAT sectors, or something). I know that if it weren't under warranty, the next thing I buy will most likely be a Creative Jukebox or something.

      I've only bought about 14 songs on iTMS, mainly because my dad bought me a prepaid gift card, b
      • by michaeldot ( 751590 ) on Sunday March 20, 2005 @10:16PM (#11994676)
        This is beyond true.
        I know that apple's iTMS works only with the iPod as a digital media player.

        Not true at all. When you buy from the iTMS, the music goes into iTunes, not to an iPod.

        From iTunes, you can either play it as is or route the music to other places such as burning a CD, which lets you play it in a portable CD player, car player, etc. You can also rip that CD in both iTunes OR ANY OTHER MUSIC PROGRAM, to put on ANY OTHER MUSIC DEVICE.

        It's really the convenience and hyperfast synching that confuses people that iTMS is ONLY for iPods, but it's more true to say that iTMS is a way of getting music into iTunes. Where it goes from there is still largely up to you. It's not forever locked onto an iPod when you buy the track.

  • by Krankheit ( 830769 ) on Sunday March 20, 2005 @09:04PM (#11994218)
    I think this could go over quite well. An all-you-can-download plan where you can get as much as you want and only pay per month. Even if the general public won't download 14,000 songs in a month, they like the idea of being able to do something they probably never will do. This is why SUV's and all-you-can-eat buffet menus sell so well.
  • Buy vs. Lease (Score:5, Interesting)

    by seigniory ( 89942 ) <bigfriggin@@@me...com> on Sunday March 20, 2005 @09:04PM (#11994220)
    I prefer the iPod model for the same reason I finance (purchase) all my cars. At the end of the day, when the payments stop, I want to have something to show for my money, er, lack of bank account.

    Granted, if all you're looking for is a way to get a few crappy, er, "currently popular" songs to listen to for a week, Napster's your choice. If you're a collector like me, you wouldn't touch Napster with a 1,000,000' pole. :-)
    • Re:Buy vs. Lease (Score:3, Insightful)

      by Nik13 ( 837926 )
      Even then, there would have to be a LOT of popular songs on there for me to take that route.

      How many good CDs worth buying get out per year? Not too many if you ask me, and too many of those only got 1 or 2 songs worth listening to.

      Take that 15$ a month * 12 months, that's 180 songs off ITMS, even with an average of say, 3 good songs per CD, that's 60 CDs worth of "good tunes", which is more than what's put out yearly in the first place imho.

      Of course YMMV, mainly depending on what you listen to (what ge
    • Re:Buy vs. Lease (Score:3, Insightful)

      by Queer Boy ( 451309 ) *

      At the end of the day, when the payments stop, I want to have something to show for my money, er, lack of bank account.

      This is one of the most compelling reasons behind buying a home over renting. I was telling a friend that I prefer to rent because it is cheaper and I don't need the extra space. My friend told me that for just a little more a month you could be spending that money on a house payment.

      When you rent, you get a place to live but that money is gone. When you buy (or mortgage) you get a p

      • Re:Buy vs. Lease (Score:3, Interesting)

        by bluGill ( 862 )

        Look really close before you buy. If you take the difference between rent and a housepayment and invest it, you are likely to come out even with buying a house.

        The first year you own a house your payment is about $100/month, with the rest of the money interest. That $100 is the investment, the rest is money thrown away.

        The advantage is you own the house after 30 years and don't have to pay rent again. IF you don't keep moving to bigger and better. If you live that long. If...

        Personally I decided

  • Right.... (Score:5, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 20, 2005 @09:04PM (#11994221)
    "Is Napster to Go the future of digital music distribution?"

    No, FTP servers and underground P2P are. Morons.
  • I listen to a very very small percent of them. Of the 10K+ songs I have, very few get played twice. Do I need access to 1.5 million songs? No
    • This is all assuming you actually buy all your music. Downloading music for free cancels out the entire point of the article. If downloading music for free suddenly became impossible tomorrow, would you rather pay $15 a month, or $1 per song. Based on what you've said about your downloading habits, it would be much more cost effective to go the $15 per month route.
  • Seems like Napster is forgetting that they are free songs on iTunes and a new one comes out every week. So it would take 10,000 weeks, which is about 192 years but then still don't have to pay $10,000 to file up your iPod. And there are more than just one free song per week so it is a lot less than 10,000 weeks.
    Plus you can buy 15 songs per month and that makes it about 44 years to fill up your iPod (assuming a month is 4 weeks and you get the free song).
  • re (Score:3, Insightful)

    by computerme ( 655703 ) on Sunday March 20, 2005 @09:06PM (#11994239)
    Apple is using Napster like a fisherman uses chum.

    Let Napster burn thru their millions trying to convince people that subscription is the way to go.

    The moment... and I do mean the _moment_ apple sees this catching on and taking root, they will come out with iTunes subscriptions and blow napster out of the water...

  • A few other important things to compare between these services: Napster to Go is Windows Only; iTunes runs on Windows, MacOS, and Linux. Napster has protected-wma-format songs, iTunes uses protected AAC files. (Some mp3 players play both, some neither, but many will only play one or the other, so it's an important consideration.) Finally, it's important to note that while Napster will allow you get download many songs for that flat rate, some songs cost 99c just to download, and all require payment to k
  • by seadd ( 530971 ) on Sunday March 20, 2005 @09:07PM (#11994242) Homepage
    This 10000$ to fill an iPod is a bit exaggerated - keep in mind that a typical iPod owner has managed to accumulate a considerable CD collection over time. I have been collecting music ever since CD's became widely available in my area, which means that I've had roughly 10 years to acquire more than 100 disks by the time iPod appeared. And that equals the capacity of iPod mini, even without breaking the law:)
    • I have something like 200 CDs that I've bought over the last 10 years. If I assume $10 a CD (usually I've paid between $7 and $13, lower for used, higher for new), average, then that is $200 a year, which is pretty close to the Napster subscription cost. I still listen to most of the music on those CDs too.

      I can just stop buying more CDs outright and still listen to those that I already bought.

      Plus, I have started getting podcasts, speeches and other legit audio tracks for cheap or free.
  • Subscription is definitely the way to go for content delivery. Ever since going with Zip.ca (Canadian Netflix) I watch about 15 movies a month. When I had to go to blockbuster, I would hate to spend $5 for every movie I rented. Cable companies found this model works a long time ago. ISPs are also moving to this model by giving people the ability to download as much as they want. People are willing to pay more if they feel like they aren't being limited in what they are getting.
    • I love my Netflix subscription too but I think there's a difference between Netflix and Napster-like programs.

      Netflix and Napster are both rental companies, but Netflix is obviously a rental company in that you have to send the disk back in order to get the next one. Napster, though, seems to be kind of slippery about thier rental-ness (sic). When they copmare themselves to iTunes it's as though they're saying they're a music store like iTunes.

      And it's that kind of deviousness, rather than their buisnes

  • Napster is... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by HaveBlue34 ( 142274 ) on Sunday March 20, 2005 @09:08PM (#11994250)
    ...not iPod compatible. Thats a show-stopper for the 20 MILLION iPod users out there.
  • by Skraut ( 545247 ) on Sunday March 20, 2005 @09:12PM (#11994270) Journal
    Ok lets say I'm the average Music Junkie, and oh 20 years old.

    I can buy a song on iTunes for $1 and keep it for the rest of my life, lets just say thats 80 years.

    Since the Napster songs go away as soon as you stop subscribing I need to pay $15 a month for the next 80 years. That folks, is $14,400.

    Considering I still listen to my grandfather's 78's that price just keeps going up and up.

  • I'd think both models have a future. I'm an avid subscriber to Real's Rhapsody (which incidently now mostly works on linux under wine). For $10 a month you can stream a pretty huge collection of music, but you don't store any of it locally. You can buy tracks for your portable music player for an additional fee.

    Now lots of people aren't going to like that and I can see their reasons, but for me I work from home and don't drive. For $10 a month my music is almost always with me through my PC. Napster To Go t

  • by Heisenbug ( 122836 ) on Sunday March 20, 2005 @09:13PM (#11994279)
    I'm a happy Rhapsody user, for $25 every three months. The one important qualification, of course: I spend roughly 12 hours a day near a Windows computer. For me at least the article is totally right about the 'value proposition' -- Rhapsody saves me money if it saves even one hour a month trying to find music online, and it offers a variety of music that far outstrips the 8 CDs per year I could buy with the equivalent money. Admittedly I don't have those 8 CDs at the end of the year -- but having any music I want, instantly, for a year, is worth a hell of a lot more than having 8 CDs for, realistically speaking, about five years before they break or the format shifts again ...

    The criticisms about the interface definitely apply to Rhapsody too, though -- playlists suck, OS integration sucks, locating music is mediocre, software is Windows only. Definitely can't hold a candle to iTunes. 90% of my music used to be illegal downloads. Now 90% of my music is paid for, via Rhapsody, and it saves me money. If iTunes offers a similar service for $10 a month, they'll be getting my money in a heartbeat.

    All of that, of course, assumes I don't need this stuff to be portable. If iTunes to go has come out by the time I'm *not* spending 12 hours a day near a Windows box, they'll be getting another iPod sale and a subscription. If it hasn't, it'll be Napster ...

    Now you know.
  • ... I realised I can't use Napster-to-go on my iPod. A quick search found this page, which is Napsters point of view on the Napster vs iPod "war":

    http://www.napster.com/using_napster/ipod_and_na ps ter.html
  • I'd rather spend $180 on something else. I don't spend close to $180 per year on music... and if I quit or if Napster goes out of business, then I have zero to show for it.

    Or, even worse, Napster could raise it's rates after I'm pretty committed.... or introduce higher-priced music categories that don't fit into the $15/month category.

  • but there's a lot of downloadable and legit free music out there

    Say you have an independent band whose members write the band's songs. How can they prove in a court of law that the songs they wrote are in fact original musical works [slashdot.org]?

  • This is what I said the last time this topic came up. [slashdot.org]

    Why is a story that's primarily about Napster posted on apple.slashdot.org? I thought stories about Napster went on yro.slashdot.org. :)
  • At the end of a year if you decide not to subscribe any longer, you have lost 12*$15=$180 worth of music, while you could have invested it in iTunes and obtained 180 songs = ~500MB of music. Napster is definitely not teh future of music. When I buy something I want to keep it irrespective of whether I stop subscribing. The longer I subscribe to Napster, the more I have to lose when I stop my subscription.
  • Disregarding for a moment, the fact that this will work for precisely as long as it takes for someone to work out how to remove the DRM, has anyone commented on how artists get compensated under this model?

    It seems to me that the best that could be hoped for is some (small) percentage of the revenue subscription is divided up by the proportion of downloads per artist.

    Because a subscription service will encourage more indiscriminate listening behaviour, this may have some strange consequences. On a positiv
  • Let's do the math (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Antony-Kyre ( 807195 ) on Sunday March 20, 2005 @09:31PM (#11994383)
    iTunes is like $1 per song, meaning it would cost $10,000 to fill an iPod.

    Napster charges $15/month for unlimited downloads, right?

    Do the math. Find out if you really download more than 15 songs per month, and that will indicate which one is the better deal. Cause who would pay $15/month for a service when you only download perhaps once a week?
  • by FunWithHeadlines ( 644929 ) on Sunday March 20, 2005 @09:32PM (#11994388) Homepage
    OK, I'm sure I'm going to get lots of replies along the lines of "Dude! I have 12,137!" Fine, you are the exception. I'm sure the vast majority of iPod users have fewer than 10,000 songs. Me? About 550. That's all I want. I have no use for another 9,500 songs. My collection grows slowly but surely, but it will take decades to reach the thousands at this rate.

    Maybe I'm not typical either, but I'll bet the typical user is closer to 550 than 10,000. And how did I get my 550? Mostly ripped from CDs in my existing collection, plus about 90-100 bought from iTunes over the last year. That's $90-$100 for me instead of $15x12 or $180. And I get to burn them to CD if I want (and I do want), and keep them for as long as I want. My monthly bill? Whatever I happened to buy that month. Maybe $2 or $3 or even zero. The Napster math makes absolutely no sense to someone like me. I don't want to rent my music, I want to own it. It's cheaper this way too.

    • by jimbolaya ( 526861 ) on Monday March 21, 2005 @12:02AM (#11995351) Homepage
      Here's some more math for Napster:

      10,000 songs at 4 minutes a song (on average) is 667 hours or almost 28 days of music. So basically, if you download 10,000 songs in your first month, you'd have to listen to music almost continuously to listen to every song.

      Of course, it's ridiculous to assume you'd actually listen to 10,000 songs each month, but it's equally ridiculous to assume that iPod owners will actually fill their iPod completely, and that they'd do so entirely from iTMS rather than other sources such as ripped CDs.

      I expect that Napster to Go will get a lot of pack rats; people who spend time downloading a ton of songs because they can, but who actually listen to a much smaller percentage of those songs. iTunes will be preferred by people that actually enjoy listening to music rather than hoarding it.

    • what people don't seem to realize is that napster to go is compatible with 3 players. They each hold 5 gb. So you can fill a 5gb player for $15/month. It seems rather unfair to compare this price to filling a 40gb ipod for good.
  • There isn't that much music out there that's even marginally interesting. I truly enjoy just a couple dozen albums out of tens of thousands they stock (both iTunes and any other music service). Why would I pay $180 a year (that's what $15 a month boils down to) to have access to them? Every year my favorite bands release maybe six CDs that are worth buying, total. That's roughly $60-70 in second hand CDs, complete with hard copy of non-DRM uncompressed audio and booklet. Three times LESS tha their "cheap" s
  • While it seems like a good idea, the technical implementation is lacking. I tried it with a Creative Zen Micro. When listening to N2G tracks there is a three or so second delay before songs start playing. Very anoying, especially with shorter songs. In addition, I was forced at one point to take out my battery (the player crashed), and this caused all of the N2G music to refuse to play. According to the Napster rep, in order to get it to play again, you have to reformat (!) your drive and resync your music
  • by amichalo ( 132545 ) on Sunday March 20, 2005 @10:41PM (#11994886)
    It all comes down to simple "buy" vs. "rent".

    These decisiojns happen all the time - think of major purchases like a home or a car, there are both choices - 36 mo. car lease vs. buying the car - rent an appartment vs locking in that 30 yr. mortgage.

    On the surface, looks like the answer is simple - offer both because there is choice and then you let the people decide - and that is a simple answer and I think that it is a good one.

    But consider the flipside for a moment - these major purchases I just mentioned offer both models from a financial model too - not everyone can afford the downpayment and 30 yr mortgage, some people like a new car every three years and would rather rent. Point is, these comparisons aren't that comparable.

    The original slashdot article was comparing business models and the problem with the $15/mo napster model is that there is no "rent-to-own" scenario. There is NO ONE in their right mind who would rather rent music for 20 yrs. versus buy the albumns they like for a lifetime - especailyl the way that music sort of picks you - we listen to the same 80's trackes over and over - country music, old hip-hop, whatever.

    So perhaps the better model is a "rent-to-own" where you pay a lower monthly amount ($10) and you get X songs per month to download and Y ( X) to 'register' as your forever and they don't count against your X downloads next month and don't expire when you stop paying.

    Vioa! You get to 'try' new music and 'keep' the stuff you like - all for one low price per month. And just like a cell phone, if you want more songs to get registered forever, just pay an additional fee - just liek a per minute fee over your air minutes.

    Now right now the $0.99/track, $9.99/albumn model is WAY easier payment plan thatn my cell phone bill, but perhaps there is something to the convolated system AT&T, Cingular, SPrint, and others have created.
  • The real question here is would the current music industry survive a complete and total move to a subscription based service. This becomes questionable. They're doing it now because theres money involved. . . Quite a bit of money.

    However a total transition would mean that no single band is making the money. Possibly leading to one of two extremes. One, the record labels continue only pouring their money into a couple of bands (and their own wallets). To an extreme not seen today. These are the reason people sign up for service. Music becomes completely manufactured etc. Why bother supporting these smaller bands.

    Then you have independent labels who if they're not getting money from the subscription services (or aren't involved or getting enough) cut back musicians etc. They fall off the wayside. On top of this we have no easy distinction of who to pay for what unless we base sales purely on downloads. This works great for major labels, unless people don't go for it.

    Under a second extreme we have the record labels stop spending money to produce hit making acts. Afterall they are locked into deals with napster, and itunes or whoever to distribute their content forever. 90% of their income is now made off these deals. Theres only 2 music companies (or maybe only one major monopoly by this point). Music turns into a cash cow and its you're either on their train or not, no point in spending money on expensive videos etc because everyone pays the same. The labels won't like this (unless they have more and more premium content). The industry starts to collapse on itself.

    The industry doesn't like that and if a subscription service couldn't stand in parallel with their current model they won't allow for it, and people who have spent $15/month for 5 years because they thought it was cheaper all of a sudden own zero music to listen to. Sounds wonderful as well.

    Of course their are other extremes in between, or the possibility that bands end up taking control of the industry by refusing to go along with their tactics. By not needing these record labels to distribute their music (thank you internet) and the production can be done much cheaper thanks to rapidly advancing computer technology, they can make it on their own.

    The futures likely to be a combination of all of these (with the added thought of a pay-per-listen strategy that I could imagine the industry come up with. . .remember divx). Ah the future is wide open.

    Phil
  • by cyberworm ( 710231 ) <cyberworm.gmail@com> on Monday March 21, 2005 @04:09AM (#11996679) Homepage
    Something I think that gets overlooked in all of this, is that hte iPod can function as more than just a music player. It can be (and from what i've read around here on /. is) used as portable storage for files photos etc. Wasn't LOTR saved to iPods during filming? Along with owning an iPod, there comes utility as well as function. I have actually gotten up to around 8000-8500 tracks on my ipod. Mostly because I've been collecting music since I was 16, not to mention my friends music, and checking out napster when it was illegit. I'm only 26 now. Maybe I'm uncommon, but I don't tend to delete music just because it's not in style anymore (Hall & Oates anyone?). Interestingly enough, I find that my 40gig iPod isn't nearly big enough. I'm going to eventually get a 60gig (or bigger iPod) sometime this year, because in addition to playing music anywhere I go, I can plug it into any computer and share information. Whether it's for helping a friend fix their computer, sharing the latest linux distro, a tv show, a movie, or whatever I may want/need at any given point. Saying that the iPod isn't worth it because it would take 10,000$ to fill it using iTunes, is incredibly short sighted and extremely misleading. Not to mention the fact that just because you have an iPod or any digital music player for that matter dosen't mean that you have to buy music online anyways or be locked into iTunes (ephpod anyone?). If I didn't have such a large music collection, I'd still want an ipod or some kind of digital music player because it simplifies things. Why carry around 20 cds (200$) in a large case (another 10-30$), and potentially scratch them (or the copies I've made), take a chance on having them stolen (that really sucks, I had 80 cds stolen from my car in chicago one time after comdex), or just in general mess with it. I can slip my music into my pocket and go. About the only thing I can't do, is let someone borrow a CD that I may be listening to, but I can always make a note to burn one for them later.
    I'm not an apple fanboy (though I'm getting a new powerbook after having used PC's for the past 10 years now) I have to say there is definately a coolness factor in owning it as well as just the way it feels in your hand.
  • by eclectic4 ( 665330 ) on Monday March 21, 2005 @09:59AM (#11998172)
    ...but it's always been that way, hasn't it? If an iPod was around 10 years ago, it still would have cost you about $9000. It's just the price of OWNING music, always has been.

    Napster is different. It LOANS the music to you. So comparing them is like comparing *insert obligatory Apple dichotomy here*.

    The price difference is still a choice for consumers. Do I want to be able to listen to that music after I stop paying Napster? If yes, then iTunes, if no, the Napster. Done.
  • No it's not (Score:4, Interesting)

    by TractorBarry ( 788340 ) on Monday March 21, 2005 @10:45AM (#11998609) Homepage
    > Is Napster to Go the future of digital music distribution ?

    No it isn't. It's an absolutely crap idea.

    The idea that I would buy a licence to listen to a piece of music is completely insane. What happens when Napster goes tits up ? Your expensively acquired music collection is lost forever. When "The Alternative Record Company" go bust my back collection of "The Alternative Record Company" CDs don't suddenly evaporate nor do they become unplayable. I can also rip any CDs I buy to any new formats that are invented so the music pretty much stays with me for life.

    Sorry but my view on consuming is very simple. If I buy something it's mine to do with as I please. In other words I can pull it apart to see how it works, I can recombine it to make other things, I can use it in ways it was never intended to be used, I can even smash it to bits, shoot it or put it on a bonfire and burn it. It's none of your bsiness what I do with because I bought it. It's mine now.

    Honestly anyone falling for this sort of crud deserves what they get. They deserve to get nothing for their money. They're idiots plain and simple.

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