Statically Charged Man Ignites Office 391
Call Me Black Cloud writes "And you think your coworker with BO is annoying? In this story carried by Reuters, a man wearing a nylon jacket over a wool shirt built up such a static charge that he left a trail of scorched carpet and melted plastic in his wake. After he melted plastic in his car he sought help from firefighters called to the scene, who measured his static field at 40,000 volts." Obviously, despite the fact that this is carried by Reuters, you should take some of the 'facts' presented here with some NaCl.
SHC (Score:4, Funny)
He lit up his office with a 40k static field. What the hell is salt going to do with that? Let's find out [mos.org]. Talk about putting salt in his wounds.
The article says this level of current is just shy of spontaneous combustion. Maybe spontaneous human combustion is a misnomer? How many people actually have scientifically studied people who have combusted, spontaneously, before? I'm thinking that since it appears to be caused by a prolonged rubbing effect, from wool sweaters rubbing against nylon jackets, and charged by static from carpets, there is nothing spontaneous about it at all, and perhaps SHC is therefore no longer a mystery?
Did we find bigfoot?
Wikipedia has a cool page about spontaneous human combustion [wikipedia.org].
Re:SHC (Score:2, Funny)
Re:SHC (Score:4, Insightful)
Dude, he meant to take a story with a grain of salt [everything2.com], despite Reuters being a very reputable source of news.
Re:SHC (Score:5, Funny)
more than 70% of Slashdot is in grave danger of undergoing spontaneous human combustion.
Re:SHC (Score:3, Interesting)
The Discovery Channel or TLC had at least a show on this, the most common was the 'wick effect.' It's normal combustion that is limited to the body, usually happens when someone is knocked unconscious or dies while holding a cigarette or candle. I don't think this case would be considered spontaneous combustion since the build up of static electricity is an ignition source, then it's normal combustion once the fuel reaches its flash point.
Re:SHC (Score:3, Informative)
Even in cases of unexplained Spontaneous Combustion, it's probably not really spontaneous. It's just that nobody really knows what the ignition source is, and Spontaneous Human Combustion just sounds so much cooler than Human Combustion by Unknown Ignition Source.
Re:SHC (Score:5, Informative)
National geographic (Score:2, Interesting)
zaaaaap (Score:5, Funny)
I smell a (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:I smell a (Score:2, Informative)
Re:zaaaaap (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:zaaaaap (Score:5, Interesting)
You won't feel the voltage, but the current. The voltage is what makes it happen. You won't get an amp of current flowing through your skin at 10 volts, but you will if 10,000 volts is sustained. Once the voltage is applied, current will have to wait a fraction of a second to overcome inductance, then it would have an open highway. Once the path of current has been established, its likely the source of energy has been dishcarged and dropping the voltage down to an insignificant amount. Its the milliamps that will kill or start a fire.
Unless of course you are discharging an infinite energy source such as a 14,440 volt power main off the neighborhood telephone pole, which the constant voltage source will supply the steady current needed to form conductive carbon trails that will burn themselves through the body, superheat tissues, and cause limbs and organs to explode like sticks of dynamite.
Re:zaaaaap (Score:3, Funny)
Re:zaaaaap (Score:5, Funny)
Awww! I know it's the current joke, but that's revolting!
Re:zaaaaap (Score:5, Funny)
Re:zaaaaap (Score:5, Funny)
--S
Re:zaaaaap (Score:5, Funny)
Re:zaaaaap (Score:5, Funny)
Re:zaaaaap (Score:5, Funny)
After all, it is free of charge.
Re:zaaaaap (Score:3, Funny)
Re:zaaaaap (Score:3, Funny)
Re:zaaaaap (Score:3, Funny)
Faced with a continuous series of bad puns, I have no alternative but to rectify the situation. I shall therefore supply a few more jokes, which may induce laughter, or make you recoil, depending on your susceptibility.
You may find that my worst two jokes make a twisted pair. but with the right spin, I will make you switch your opinion.
Given the high frequency of bad puns in the above paragraphs, and the broad spectrum of quality,
Re:zaaaaap (Score:2)
How to pay ohmage to someone with the potential to transform neutral words into a string of joules?
Re:zaaaaap (Score:2, Funny)
discharged... (Score:2)
Re:discharged... (Score:5, Insightful)
The entire story is laughable, but the most obvious problem is this:
Firefighters took possession of Clewer's jacket and stored it in the courtyard of the fire station, where it continued to give off a strong electrical current.
How does a statically charged jacket "give off an electric current" -- and why would firefighters take possession of it anyway? All they'd need to do to discharge it is pour a bucket of water over it.
Re:discharged... (Score:5, Informative)
I put more faith in the Loch Ness Monster than this crap. Shame to see it actually in the "real" news.
1. Current is measured in amps, not volts.
2. WTF is the FIRE department doing with a volt/amp meter? Most (cheap) volt meters don't measure past 1000 volts AC/DC.
3. One or two squirts of water from a spray bottle would have completely discharged the jacket -- assuming somehow the natural humidity didn't!
4. and of course the jacket could never have built up such powerful charges as to melt and burn materials...
5. Seems unlikely that static electricity would be likely to flow *through* plastic, a *non-conductor*.
6. For the jacket to "continue" to give off an electrical current, several things must be happening:
a) There must be somewhere for it to go.
b) There must be something actively ionizing the electronics in the jacket. This requires force, external electricity, etc.
c) The "destination" of the current must also remain oppositely ionized. (Otherwise some current would flow and then things would be balanced). Maintaining the ionization of the "path to the destination" would also require external force, electricity, etc.
Re:discharged... (Score:4, Insightful)
I imagine they have to be prepared to deal with fires or other problems caused by downed powerlines, often before the electric company shows up 5 hours later.
Re:discharged... (Score:5, Informative)
Just to amplify your comment, most (cheap) volt meters have too low a resistance to measure potential on a tiny capacitor, such as a human body [aecouncil.com] (~250 pF), because the voltmeter would discharge the capacitor before it could get a reading.
Someone else replied about measuring downed power lines, but that would: (a) not require a voltmeter to read over 1000 volts and (b) not require an ultra-high-impedance static-charge electrometer.
BTW, let's do the numbers: 40,000 volts across a 250 pF capacitor would have potential energy of 1/2 CV^2 = 0.2 Joules. If you think that 0.2 Joules is enough energy to melt macroscopic amounts of plastic or burn carpet, much less almost enough to incinerate a human body, I have a hot investment tip [josephnewman.com] for you.
Re:Had to be said (Score:3, Interesting)
Note that the original story, not the ignorant rewrite on rueters mentions only 30,000 volts and a mention of amps at the end. And in Australia, they are in late winter, this being the southern hemi
Re:discharged... (Score:5, Insightful)
Statically charged jacket would not give off a current unless discharged. The reporter, if the story is true, was ignorantly referring to the electrical field strength (which was measured in volts in the article). Firefighters would have the meter for this because they sometimes have to find out if a downed wire is still live.
Now for the story: it's begging a lot of questions. 1) How could the jacket hold its charge after being handled? 2) How could he re-build up such a charge after discharging into the carpet? 3) How could he not notice the massive jolts he'd get touching metal furnishings or even his computer? There's a strong whiff of bs from this story.
Re: (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:discharged... (Score:2)
the myth: someone was sand blasting the paint off a PBC pipe and lots of static built up on the pipe and he was killed by the discharge when he touched the pipe. Myth Busted, while PBC does hold a charge, it's very small and the sand in the air act as discharge points.
Re:discharged... (Score:2)
Re:discharged... (Score:2)
Re:discharged... (Score:2)
Re:discharged... (Score:2)
Re:discharged... (Score:2)
The electrons rest on top of the fabric, just like the friction-released electrons on a comb after you run it through your hair on an arid day.
Since when is Current measued in Volts ? (Score:5, Insightful)
That alone is enough to make me seriously doubt this whole business.
Re:Since when is Current measued in Volts ? (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Since when is Current measued in Volts ? (Score:2, Insightful)
Why yes, IAAEE. (I am an electrical engineer)
Re:Since when is Current measued in Volts ? (Score:2)
...in Warnambool [warrnamboolinfo.com.au] where the CFA is manned primarily by volunteers who might attend the occasional house fire at this time of year, but not much else.
Re:Since when is Current measued in Volts ? (Score:2)
Re:Since when is Current measued in Volts ? (Score:2)
I know Warrnambool quite well, and I can say that the CFA there are definitely better than the volnteers firefighters of Springfield, although I can't really speak for the rest of the town...
Re:Since when is Current measued in Volts ? (Score:4, Informative)
Reuters just made some shit up and made the story look even more like bullshit than it already was.
Re:Since when is Current measued in Volts ? (Score:2)
That website describes the town, which would give a very good level of the lack of complicated... anything... present in the town of Warrnambool, which according to TFA, is where this all went down.
Re:Since when is Current measued in Volts ? (Score:2, Informative)
1. Clothes (or anything else for that matter) does not "spontaneously combust" because they are charged to a particular voltage. It's only the discharge (i.e. flow of current) that can ignite something (see #2).
2. Combustion can occur from a spark (which can happen at nearly any voltage, but let's just say 1,000 volts as a reasonable minimum), but it would be highly unlikely to ignite ANYTHING except gas or other flammable fumes.
I've passed multiple 50,000 volt simulated discharges throu
Re:Since when is Current measued in Volts ? (Score:2, Informative)
It has to be done (Score:2)
Something online might not be true? Shocking!
Re:It has to be done (Score:2)
--
Evan
Re:It has to be done (Score:2)
News people think they are a joke too
(however, it's affordable compared to the rest... a great deal use AP Wire... despite being "non-profit" is horribly expensive)
A REAL Electrical Engineer (Score:3, Funny)
It's the thought that counts (Score:4, Funny)
Now I know what to buy a number of family and friends for Xmas.
Oh come on... (Score:5, Insightful)
1. Make up BS story about "static" man
2. Put Warnambool on map.
3. Tourism
4. Profit
If someone will travel to bumphuk, nowhere to see the virgin mary in someones month old pea soup, they might travel to Warnambool to meet "static man".
Re:Oh come on... (Score:2, Funny)
3a. ????
Microamp currents causing this kind of damage? (Score:3, Informative)
The reports are also inconsistent. The AP is saying it was 30kV, Reuters is saying 40kV.
His wife (Score:2, Funny)
Why (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Why (Score:5, Funny)
You need to calm down. Here, have a cool glass of Dihydrogen Monoxide.
Re:Why (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Why (Score:2)
Re:Why (Score:3, Funny)
That stuff is deadly [dhmo.org]!
Re:Why (Score:2)
-Homer Simpson
My bet... (Score:2)
Is that yes: he did have a static charge, and did arc a bit. I used to drive a company car which did this to me all the time. Painful as hell.
But the scorch marks could have been there for a long time. Perhaps this was the ideal opportunity to cover up for some office hijinks?
Original story from the Warrnambool Standard (Score:5, Informative)
If it's a hoax, it's fooled a lot [google.com] of people.
Re:Original story from the Warrnambool Standard (Score:2)
Bah. Most of these places just have an automated process that pulls from "authoritive" RSS feeds and adds it to their own website. There's not some guy at all these news sites that reads each thing and posts it.
The Internet and RSS: Spreading "news" at the speed of BS.
Re:Original story from the Warrnambool Standard (Score:5, Insightful)
If it's a hoax, it's fooled a lot of people.
And sadly, that's quite easy. All you have to do to fool the news media is fool one semi-reputable source (in this case Reuters). Soon enough all the other newspapers will pick it up like you're living in an echo chamber.
Or you could check the ultimate source (Score:4, Insightful)
Maybe the knee jerk skeptics from Zonk down could back up their skepticism with some fact checking, but I guess that is asking a bit much.
Re:Or you could check the ultimate source (Score:2)
Also the article in the Standard makes sense. It doesn't have the voltage/amp confusion reported by this
It's a dupe! (No, really) (Score:2)
Original article (Score:4, Informative)
Disclosure (Score:2)
Joy (Score:2)
Hey, it could happen. If "journalists" can post something like this, can we really expect better from jihadi? :P
Wow! (Score:2)
40kV. So? (Score:5, Informative)
Not to say that it didn't happen, of course. It's just not well-reported, and is clearly not terribly common.
Static is easy (so are hoaxes) (Score:5, Informative)
A Van De Graaf generator [amasci.com] is basically a band of insulating material being rotated in a tower with some means of transferring a charge to it. There are relatively cheap desktop [coe.ufrj.br] and home models [unitednuclear.com] that'll produce nearly half a million volts. Schools use such devices all the time, so if the fireman hasn't seem a voltage that high, he skipped classes.
Having said that, early atom-smashers used Van De Graaf generators only capable of producing five million or so volts. It seems reasonable to suspect something will burn before it is blasted out of existence. So, somewhere between 400,000 volts and 5,000,000 volts, you might be able to ignite something.
However, here we get a problem. You can't just carry around half a million volts and not notice it. Your hair tends to stand on end, for a start. ANYTHING metal - even a doorknob - will cause a discharge to occur. Getting into his car certainly would have - even if the car were carbin-fiber, the key would be metal and the distance short enough for an arc to occur.
There's also the problem of where you lodge a charge that great. A capacitor is basically two electrostatic devices with an insulator between them. In this case, the insulator would be the shoes, and the electrostatic device the person. I'll assume there are enough nails holding the carpet down to act as the other electrostatic device.
But what is the capacitance of a person? The figure I've been able to get with a Google search is an average of 204 pF with a typical range of 95 to 398 pF. (It varies according to height and weight, so a seven-foot sumo wrestler might have a higher capacitance than this range shows.)
In other words, not really what you'd need to carry half a million volts around. The jacket would have carried more, but unless it was made of Tantallum or some other material with very high capacitance, I doubt you'd be able to store enough charge to start setting things on fire.
In other words, there is nothing credible about the story. The voltages are abnormally low for a static device and way too low to actually do any fire damage, there's nowhere a higher charge could have been stored and there would have been too many points at which positively violent arcing would have occurred if it had been stored.
Re:Static is easy (so are hoaxes) (Score:2)
> the key would be metal and the distance short enough for an arc to occur.
From what is probably the source article:
http://the.standard.net.au/articles/2005/09/16/112 6750111141.html [standard.net.au]
"[...] returning to his car at the Ozone car park.
There he found that a plastic bag used to protect his seat from water after surfing was badly charred beneath his feet."
Re:Static is easy (so are hoaxes) (Score:3, Informative)
What limits the voltage in a capacitor is the dielectric breakdown voltage. This is the voltage where the insulator between the two plates becomes conductive and arcing occurs.
But of course, even if the person involved did have a field that big, with a capacitance of 204pF they would only
Help! (Score:2)
Volts? (Score:2, Informative)
Last time I checked, the unit for current is Ampers, not Volts. Volts measure the potential for current, not current itself. Besides, a static feild has no current... because it's static.
Anyway, it's too bad he doesn't work on computers, I'd love to see his anti-static bracelet. I think #00 gauge welding cable would handle it.
Different details (Score:2)
This one has some differing details, ie 30kV as compared to 40kV.
Sounded like a firecracker? (Score:2)
regrets... (Score:2)
Static Electricity Field Meter? (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Static Electricity Field Meter? (Score:3, Informative)
Even though it is Reuters... (Score:2, Insightful)
(How could he have gone through his day like that without touching anything metal, like a doorknob or his car door?)
Nuclear power plant in a jacket? (Score:2)
Also, the energy in rubbing can never exceed the force multiplied by the distance in the direction of the force. The amount of continuous heat that can be generated by static electricity from rubbing, is at the same level of the heat produced by walking in other types of clothes.
Tangentially related question (Score:2)
Re:Tangentially related question (Score:3, Interesting)
I had a similar experience back in HS, the letter sweaters were made of 100% acrylic, I don't know why they were, but they were. At the end of every day it was go down to the locker room and take the sweater off, the popping sound was very audible, and discharge by grabing the door or hit some random freshman walking by.
Re:Tangentially related question (Score:2)
That sounds familiar! I used to have a client in the Groot Handelsgebouw [www.ghg.nl] in Rotterdam. Every time I visited them I got zapped on opening the hallway door. Sometimes strong enough to draw visible sparks - after I while got used to routinely performing the gesture you describe.
It is probably a combination of: Airco (dry air) Carpet (builds up charge) Soles of your shoes (do not release charge)
I kept open
Better article (Score:3, Interesting)
A huh. (Score:2)
Remember folks; the Mainstream Media is superior to Bloggers due to their layers of fact checking editors and professional reporters. All who have been professionally trained and do this stuff for a living!
Far superior when compared to some guy sitting in his pajamas in his living room.
It might not be that untrue (Score:2)
I wouldn't discount this story out of hand. It's been very dry in Australia lately, and I have been getting shocks quite often. I have on many occasion got a zap when touching my car or closing the garage do. Once (a few days ago) while in the process of shaking hands, we even heard the crack. It is painful.
So, I think this story is not exagerated. Afterall, they even called in the CFS.
Ignites??? (Score:2)
Not so fast, buckos... (Score:2)
If leaping to conclusions were an Olympic event, Slashdot would be the home of a large number of gold medal holders.
When I was in Jr. High School I had an insulated synthetic jacket made of some material like nylon or rayon. One day the elevator in my apartment building was painted with some goopy paint with texture thingies in it. Afteward I noticed that I was sometimes shocked when touching the metal door to leave at my destination floor. I put two and two together and figured it must be my jacket to
Department of Redundancy Department (Score:5, Funny)
As opposed to a natural nylon jacket, made from the finest virgin Icelandic nylon harvested from the nests of shore birds.
Nonsense... (Score:3, Insightful)
(Tip: this is annoying, but just touch the wall with a key and you'll not feel the spark.)
Voltage is not dangerous "unless". To spark a fire you need not just voltage, but current as well. A 30 kV spark discharge from your hand at 0.1 uA (micro-ampere) would do a lot less harm than a 30 kV powerline at 100 Amps (the latter would incinerate you instantly).
To set a carpet on fire you would need quite a lot of current. If this carpet was set on fire by a shirt (how, by the way: was he rubbing his chest on the floor?), then it was a weird carpet fire waiting to happen anyway.
But of course this makes a cute story to fill an otherwise empty page. Myths always do.
He could burn the building down (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Sydney? (Score:3, Interesting)
If you read the news around here, *everything* that happens in AU happens in sydney.
The Reuters article is a particularly bad piece of journalism though.. confusing volts and amps, inserting the 'rubbing clouds' quote, and even getting the facts wrong (it was 30kv not 40kv).