RIAA Subpoenas Neighbor's Son, Calls His Employer 593
NewYorkCountryLawyer writes "To those who might think that I might be exaggerating when I describe the RIAA's litigation campaign as a 'reign of terror', how's this one: in UMG v. Lindor, the RIAA not only subpoenaed the computer of Ms. Lindor's son, who lives 4 miles away, but had their lawyer telephone the son's employer. See page 2, footnote 1." From Ray's comments: "You have a multi-billion dollar cartel suing unemployed people, disabled people, housewives, single mothers, home healthcare aids, all kinds of people who have no resources whatsoever to withstand these litigations. And due to the adversary system of justice the RIAA will be successful in rewriting copyright law, if the world at large, and the technological community in particular, don't fight back and help these people fighting these fights."
How low can they go? (Score:5, Insightful)
What's worse is that it's not even the accused, it's the accused's son.
Or rather, how much can they get away with... (Score:5, Insightful)
...before it becomes actionable defamation? Surely they've already crossed the boundary and this guy has grounds to sue for slander, right?
Re:Or rather, how much can they get away with... (Score:5, Insightful)
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All you would have to say is "See you in court" (Score:3, Insightful)
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Yes it is (Score:4, Insightful)
They don't listen to reason, they listen to money. Denying them money is like denying fuel to fire.
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And as far as fil
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See, you are very wrong there.
Lets try the "whats more likely" approach and see what happens, shall we ?
Ok, what is more likely ?
1) RIAA will just give up chasing people around
or
2) RIAA will lobby in congress and supreme court and have some new law/precedent stopping people from doing this kind of stunt ?
Not sure about you, but for me, #2 seems MUCH more likely.
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but can you cost them a larger percentage of their revenue stream than the percentage that they can cost yours?
I dunno about you... but I am pretty sure the RIAA can take a million dollar hit much more gracefully and with less notice than I could personally take a thousand dollar hit.
Not that you are wrong, I agree... these are the sorts of tactics that could work. Just make them drop the case by dragging it out.
-Steve
Re:All you would have to say is "See you in court" (Score:4, Informative)
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That wouldn't be a bad idea for someone who's retired, but what about those of us who have to earn a living? The time you'd spend in court is time you're not at work. Not only can most people not afford lawyers to go up against the Media Mafia, they probably can't afford the time off from work to aggressively pursue the matter themselves, which means they're even more fr
Re:Or rather, how much can they get away with... (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Or rather, how much can they get away with... (Score:4, Insightful)
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Oh? Has he lost his job? What if the claims of the RIAA are true? What if the son used his comapny's property to infringe on copyright, thereby exposing them to liability? Defamation might not be so easy to prove.
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Actually, the first three of those really do freak the money-grubbing power elite right out. The most threatening thing you can do to the current social order is nothing. That's right, nothing. Sit on your ass. Don't produce. Don't consume. Do nothing.
Of course it's actually very hard to survive that way - if you do, you will certainly be supported by someone supporting the current system. So here is an alternative method for dodging the system. Warning: It may involve dramatic changes in lifestyle.
F
SSG101 -- Under the Radar Living (Score:5, Interesting)
You need one set of durable clothing. The basics: socks, shoes, underwear, long pants, t or a shirt. Additional according to target climate: zero or more additional pairs of cotton pants (for layering in the cold), zero or more cotton long sleeve shirts (for layering in the cold), zero or more wool or cotton sweaters or sweatshirts (for layering in the cold) one or more jackets suitable for the weather--a good setup for even the coolest climates is t-shirt, two long sleeve cottons, one cotton sweatshirt, one wool sweater, one cotton hooded sweatshirt, one field jacket or heavy coat--one pair of gloves, one hat (anything more effective than a baseball cap will do). Multipurpose: one rain poncho (rainproofing, doubles as a ground layer). One sleeping bag suitable for the target climate--get a compression bag to reduce bulk, Marmot makes nice ones. Additional survival necessities: steel fork, knife, spoon, Swiss Army or Leatherman style multifunction pocket tool, Toothbrush, toothpaste, baby powder (for feet), antibacterial ointment (for first aid), miniroll of duct tape, small roll of kite string (50 pound test), one large roll of thread (pick your color) and at least five sewing needles (you'll break a few unless you have prior proficiency in hand-sewing). You can fit just about everything (except the sleeping bag, which should come with its own tote bag) into a standard size backpack. Extra clothes can be folded up or secured, with the kite string, to one of the bags. State issued ID--preferably a US passport (not 100% necessary but makes random encounters with local authorities go quickly and without mishap). It may take a bit of practice to refine your particular carryall system.
That's about it. Choose an urban location in a moderate climate (ie. not the desert, not anywhere with heavy snowfall or severe cold temperatures) with readily accessible toilet facilities, a readily accessible supply of drinking water, but far enough towards the edges of urban jungle so that you can find a sleeping spot that's relatively secluded. You should be able to set up your sleeping spot in less than five minutes and pack up in the morning in a similar amount of time. Use the rain poncho to cover the ground where you will spread out your sleeping bag. If it rains during the day then you can wear the rain poncho and have what I used to call "free car wash day" but is now "free rain poncho wash day". If it rains at night, well, spend the night walking around in the rain poncho. If that's the worst of your worries--staying awake for a night--then life isn't so bad.
Note that this lifestyle requires staying clean. No heavy drinking as humans tend to become forgetful, at best, or outright stupid, at worst, when drinking is involved. Heavy drinking is the number one cause for torn clothes, dropped items, unfortunate encounters with the police, or falling asleep under the wrong tree and being awakened by the police (or worse). Heavy use of hard or debilitating drugs is also discouraged--habitual use of cocaine, crack cocaine, or crystalline methamphetamine will cause you to become involved with people who will only see you as a potential slave. Habitual use of marijuana isn't, in and of itself, terribly debilitating but be forewarned that "street demons" look for marijuana users and prey on them to satisfy their addiction to the harder drugs. Don't worry about showers. During the summer time spend time on beaches or at parks where you can sponge bath (a bathing suit comes in handy) off after a good sweat. Don't worry much about body odor--with proper self-care and maintenance it will eventually moderate itself.
Learn to deal with hunger. You will have days where you are hungry--COPE. As long as you have water the human body can go for, probably, months without a good meal. I can personally go for abou
Re:How low can they go? (Score:5, Insightful)
The RIAA should fire their lawyers post haste. Seriously. While IANAL, it sounds like this guy easily has a defamation of character suit against the RIAA. What's more is that he doesn't need any serious resources to fight it. All he has to do is go find himself an ambulance chaser who will take the case on contingency since it's a deep pockets lawsuit that he's likely to win. Pain and suffering, loss of income or potential income...kaching!
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Re:How low can they go? (Score:5, Interesting)
I've been involved and vindicated in court case (Same Name, Different Guy) that has a, shall we say, credit problem. I was taken to court by his creditors- even though I proved I wasn't the person they wanted.
I lost about 20 lbs in the time that it took to straighten out and felt like shit for the entire time.
So... what can they do? They can make you so miserable that you don't want to live.
At least 'justice' worked in my case... now if I could just win judgement against them for violations of the Fair Credit act....
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Only if you allow to be."
OK, two things here.
1. "It's extremely stressful, but only if you allow it to be."
Perhaps you are an enlightened Zen master and nothing ever gets you down, but for most average people, being sued is a huge emotional drain and and ruin health, livelihood, and relationships. I think it's naive and frankly insulting to say to people who are undergoing the stress of
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Re:How low can they go? (Score:5, Informative)
That said, if you don't want an potential litigant to contact you at work, don't actively avoid service at your home. It does not help your case. Few things annoy a judge more than playing games with the requirements for service. Personal service requirements are a constitutional protection to guarantee that people aren't being brought to court without getting notice to defend your self. It is serious business, and courts take it seriously. They don't like it when a person who obviously already has actual notice of a pending subpoena plays games with the system.
Given the apparent circumstances, the RIAA and their lawyers were well within their bounds to attempt service at his place of employment. If he didn't want to be served there, then he should have accepted any of the previous seven valid attempts to effect service at his house.
Quoting from the footnotes:
Well, actually I can't quote from the letter, because it's
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FTFA
In UMG v. Lindor, a case against a home health aide who has never used a computer, the RIAA has now subpoenaed the computer of Ms. Lindor's adult son, who lives four (4) miles away from her. Ms. Lindor's son, a paralegal in a law firm, has hired counsel to make a motion to quash the subpoena
Looks to me like the RIAA is goin fishin.
There's a simple solution for this... (Score:3, Funny)
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What to do about it? (Score:5, Interesting)
OK..
In all seriousness. WHAT SHOULD WE DO?
Please.. what can I do to help make this go away?
Re:What to do about it? (Score:5, Informative)
Most people reading this by now know that MS caved and some sort of "copyright tax" to the RIAA for every Zune sold. Even if you ignore all of the negative reviews and MS is the devil and all that; the money given to the RIAA from the sale of the player is enough for me to never, ever consider buying one. And to recommend the same to anyone I ever happen to know.
Re:What to do about it? (Score:5, Funny)
ping www.riaa.com
(until they stop)
Re:What to do about it? (Score:5, Insightful)
Go to concerts and enjoy live performances but DO NOT BY RECORDINGS IN STORES OR ONLINE!
If most people took this approach, it would bring the recording industry to its knees or at least drive prices into the ground where they should be.
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Persistence.
Re:What to do about it? (Score:4, Insightful)
Um, the **AA's are evil (TM) money grubbing businesses, and pretty much everyone I know acknowledges that. There's no need to be a liberal to understand that.
I get the impression you think that the political left in this country is responsible for the DMCA and the abuses of the common man that have arisen since then. The DMCA was passed in a Republican-dominated congress by unanimous vote, and signed into law by President Clinton, arguably the best Republican (ahem) president this country has had in decades. You did read the bit about unanimous?
Most of your senators and representatives, Democrat and Republican, are bought and paid for by corporate special interests. Those corporate special interests want to keep their income steady and have made sure that laws intended to prevent the internet from threatening those income streams has been quickly passed.
This is not a left/right issue. This is a corporation/rest of us issue. The fact that you think it's a left/right issue just means that you're believing the corporatist propaganda. Good luck getting any straight information from talk radio. They're far too distracted unraveling nonexistent conspiracies to actually inform anyone. But good luck anyway.
Regards,
Ross
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Re:What to do about it? (Score:5, Insightful)
Litvinenko blamed the Russians as he lay dying in hospital. Doesn't make him any more alive now, does it?
-b.
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Unless the bands are selling the recordings themselves or they're being sold be small-time "tapers" as is done a lot for some jam band shows (MM&W, Lesh, etc). This is with the permission of the band, BTW.
-b.
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I am RIAA music clean for years. I don't download stuff, and more importantly, I DON'T BUY THE CRAP THEY SELL!!!! None of it. Not a dime.
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You can only minimize it.
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Re:What to do about it? (Score:5, Interesting)
Great question. Hope you get moderated up to +5 instantly on that one.
1. The tech community can offer their services as technical consultants to the lawyers and individuals who are fighting these cases, preferably on a reduced fee or pro bono basis. There is a great need for people who can testify and advise about numerous issues that come up in these cases, such as, just to name a few, (a) hard drive forensics issues, (b) IP addresses and the like, (c) file sharing software, (d) the significance of metadata and hash marks, and (e) the unreliability of proprietary software that has never been peer reviewed as a basis for a lawsuit... i.e. all the issues on which the RIAA are trying to mislead the judges.
2. All tech companies who make profits from the internet should be organizing, and contributing financially to, legal defense funds to assist the RIAA defendants. Right now the only fund I know of that is currently operational is the RIAA legal defense fund operated by "Defective by Design" [fsf.org].
3. All tech companies should urge their industry trade associations to be assisting the RIAA defendants financially.
4. Everybody, tech community or not, should be writing to their federal congresspeople about this situation and urging legislation to curb the tide of litigation against ordinary working people.
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Stop sharing music illegally (Score:5, Insightful)
While their tactics can be extreme it's not like they're going through a phone book and randomly suing people. They find an IP that's illegally sharing files of content that is copyright by the RIAA and then contact the ISP to get the information of the person that is responsible for the account the IP was assigned to at the time the offense was committed.
It doesn't matter what your socioeconomic status is. If you break the law, you broke the law and are subject to punishment. I don't think anyone doesn't understand that if you have something you were supposed to pay for but took it without permission and without paying, you broke the law.
Game companies do the same thing. It doesn't matter what electonic media you're peddling illegally. It's all warez; music, movies, games etc. And the companies that are victims of the crime are fighting back.
It's rediculous to try to paint the people committing the crime as the victim just because they're everyday people. There's nothing nobel about taking things you have no right to have.
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All of which would be a reasonable argument, if the RIAA were only going after people who were genuinely breaking the law. But, as NYCL and others have pointed out on several occasions, they're not.
Re:What to do about it? (Score:4, Insightful)
Here's what needs to be done: stop listening to music. Completely. Don't listen to corporate music. Or indie music. Or local bands. Don't go to concerts. Don't listen to the radio. Don't own a radio. Don't buy music. Don't download music, legally or illegally. Don't trade it. Don't have any CDs or tapes or LPs or 8-tracks. Get rid of it all.
The reason the recording industry seems to have so many people in their clutches is that so many people have made music a part of their lifestyle. Remove music -- ALL music -- from your life, totally. Change your lifestyle.
That will hurt them the most, and they will have no power over you.
But so few are willing to do that. You've been trained to think your every action, your every waking moment, needs a soundtrack. It doesn't.
Let the RIAA control music all they want. Every lyric, every note, every recordable sound. So what? You don't need any of it. They can control all the music, but it only has value if someone else wants it. Stop wanting it.
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Infringe all you want, just don't get caught. If you pirate something, send a check for the cost of the music directly to the performer. If enough people do that, maybe performers will get the message that the recording (rather, hard media selling, good sound men will always be needed!) industry as we have it today is dinosaur and isn't needed.
-b.
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Infringe all you want, just don't get caught. If you pirate something, send a check for the cost of the music directly to the performer. If enough people do that, maybe performers will get the message that the recording (rather, hard media selling, good sound men will always be needed!) industry as we have it today is dinosaur and isn't needed.
Uhm, OK, but what about all the other people who put legitimate work into the album and who would be completely screwed by the system you're proposing? You know, the faceless, nameless people who
Or are they unimportant in your eyes?
You know, people who espouse the kind of tactics you're condoning make me furi
What about breakages? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:What to do about it? (Score:5, Insightful)
Stop committing copyright infringement maybe?
Ain't gonna happen. Copyright law has become so ridiculously restrictive that it has become nearly impossible not to infringe. The majority of people just don't care about it anymore.
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Americans (especially drivers) are almost shockingly law-abiding as compared to other countries, as regards the "minor" laws (not talking about serious crimes here). If the speed limit is 65, they generally drive 75 or 80, not 90 or 100. Mostly they stop at red lights and at least d
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Right, which works perfectly assuming also that everyone the RIAA brings a suit against actually committed copyright infringement (*fixed that for ya). However the GP's question was how to support the people who aren't necessarily guilty, and/or being absolutely wiped out financially by the RIAA. One of the points that is usually contested is that the fine per infringement is rediculously high ($750 per song) and that level of damage doesn't even have to be demonstrated by the RIAA,
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The hyperbole has gone nuclear (Score:5, Insightful)
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The RIAA called his employer. This alone is a call for concern (no pun intended)...seriously, defaming someone to their employer? For fucks sake.
If they settle out of court, they are down thousands of dollars. If they don't, fight the case and lose, they are down thousands of dollars. If they do, fight the case and win, they still have legal fees to pay.
Maybe this is not Nazi Germany style terror, or Soviet Union style terror, but to these families right now they are shit fucking scared of how thei
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Low act. (Score:3, Insightful)
Home Health Care Aide (Score:5, Informative)
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If the guy were working for me... (Score:3, Insightful)
-b.
Probable Cause? (Score:4, Interesting)
The RIAA says that the hard drive they have is not the hard drive that was attached to the computer they are looking for, so they are looking at Richard Altman's computer equipment to see if he has the information they want.
Do they have probable cause to do this? I don't think so, but that is their argument.
-Matt
I don't download music anymore (Score:5, Interesting)
Now I've been a little scared of being hit by the MPAA for downloading Doctor Who and James Burke shows. Oh, wait...
In the land of sweeping statements (Score:5, Funny)
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And of the countries outside the US, how many have trade agreements with the US? How many are dependent on the US as an export market?
How many are signatories to the WTO treaty?
If you think that the outside world is independent of US political and economic action, that's just as bad as thinking there IS no outside world.
Of course, it's hubris to think that the US can unilaterally enact decisions this big, isn
The Objective: Fear (Score:4, Insightful)
Much like a dog that has been beaten for no reason, consumers then get into a frame of mind where they will go to entertainment corps first and follow crazy usage rules in order to avoid getting criminalized.
In exchange, then entertainment mega-corps content consumption will appear cheaper.
I'm liking vhs/dvd's much more now than ever. (until I can build a silent mythtv box anyway)
boycott music for a while (Score:2, Interesting)
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Is it legal to... (Score:2)
For instance, one might consider the MPAA to be an utterly evil business. A morally inclined person might see destruction of the MPAA as a moral good. But I've also heard of lawsuits related to "interference with business" or some such.
Does anyone know if it would be legal for us to form the "RIAA/MPAA Bankruptcy League", whose goal is to bring those companies to bankruptcy?
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I'd think that it depends on the methods used. Encouraging people to boycott because of specific grievances is OK, especially if you say that the boycott will end if those grievances are addressed. If addressing the grievances will incidentally involve the company being
Am I missing something? (Score:5, Interesting)
Say what you will about our thieving jackbooted fascist powertripping RIAA overlords, I'm having a hard time mustering up much sympathy for this guy. I disagree with much (if not all) of the **AA's tactics, but I'm just as rapidly running out of compassion for people who don't have the nerve to man up and just *do without* all their downloaded music and movies. At least the stoners have the nerve to stand right in front of the cops in a crowd of thousands and say "go ahead, arrest us all." I've yet to see a single person say "yes, I'm illegally filesharing and I'm willing to take the legal consequences as a symbol protest." Instead all I hear is "b-b-but it's not stealing, it's sharing! Everybody does it! Your business model is outdated and you're *mean*! Lower your prices! Britney sucks!"
And? (Score:2)
This may sound harsh, but how does being any of these things affect whether you should be allowed to infringe copyright? Argue against the copyright system all you want, but don't play the 'little old granny' card: being disabled, single or unemployed doesn't give you a right to piracy.
Alternative RIAA scheme (Score:2, Interesting)
Wander with me a moment if you will...
DRM - Change the DRM so that instead of trying to block copying of media it's more of a tattletale. Periodically it informs the RIAA what songs you have, when you copy them, whatever. I don't have this completely fleshed out but it would probably entail some sort of RIA
Ban trade association enforcement (Score:4, Insightful)
The simple solution would be to ban trade association enforcement. In one swoop that would take out the BSA, RIAA and MPAA. Make the parent companies be the litigants. If Sony starts suing people for file sharing consumers might well start avoiding all their products at the store.
Make the companies behind these tactics be front and center in any adverse actions and you'll see lawsuits against all but the worst offenders, the ones very few of us feel sorry for, dry up almost overnight.
Shenannigans! (Score:3, Informative)
His employer was called because:
1) Son is actively trying to avoid being served with legal documents. RIAA attempts to serve him at his place of business (standard practice)
2) Employer got himself involved in the case. Specifically, he left instructions on how to handle the legal paperwork trying to be served, plus went into discussions on obtaining a court order to protect his company's documents.
Why They are Really Afraid of Downloading (Score:5, Insightful)
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You can't withdraw from your engag
Where does the "neighbor" come into this? (Score:3, Informative)
It is (Score:2)
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Re:Is it unusual (Score:5, Insightful)
Not for nothing, but it appears that the son was deliberately avoiding receiving the subpoena (good for him, every attempt at re-delivery is costing the plaintiffs cold, hard cash) -- and if he does this at home, he should expect and deal with the consequences (the subpoena being served to him at work).
The plaintiff's lawyers decided to play tit-for-tat and ask his employer about the possibility of the son's work computer having material potentially relevant to the case.
The lesson is, if you want to play hardball with the MPAA, then you'd better bring your bat, glove, and catcher's mask.
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And given the circumstances, it's not even outrageous -- assuming that the plaintiff's assertions that repeated attempts to deliver the subpoena at the son's stated address failed. If you read the footnotes you linked to, there's some pretty dodgy stuff there about avoiding the subpoena. If true, the plaintiff was fully justified.
Making the summary sound like they contacted the employer out of the blue is sensationalist, misleading, dishones
full blown AIDS? (Score:2)
Sorry, I couldn't resist [youtube.com]
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One sure tip off is if the comment starts "No one hates the RIAA more than me". I think the RIAA trolls, here and in prior posts, are trying to do the following: (a) propagandize for their lawyers' positions, justifying their conduct, (b) take things off topic, (c) waste my t
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Even labels in Canada have split from the CRIA [thestar.com], due to disagreements in the way they do business (including labels for larger acts like Rush and Sara McLachlan). The CRIA was founded to protect Canadian artists and companies, one of the reasons these labels left was because t