AllofMP3 Voucher Resellers Quit After Police Raid 137
Broohaha writes "Europeans who resell AllofMP3.com vouchers are quitting the business after a UK raid against one prominent reseller there. An Ars Technica article talks to several of them about their situations. 'Until a few days ago, I had never heard of the IFPI [the international music trade group],' said one reseller. 'But yes, I am concerned about them now. Although my attorney assures me that reselling gift certificates bought from AllOfMP3.com isn't breaking any laws, it isn't worth the possibility of engagement with their legal machine.' The music industry seems determined to choke off AllofMP3's funding, no matter how small the source."
The RIAA wins then... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:The RIAA wins then... (Score:5, Insightful)
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"I didn't say Allofmp3 was legal; in fact, I warned people I recommended the site to that they operated in a gray area. However, they were still willing to pay for songs that had a guaranteed quality, were easy to find and worked on their devices. Now that they can't use Allofmp3 anymore, they prefer to pirate songs - they are more difficult to find, don't have a guaranteed quality, but work on their devices."
If your friends are willing to pay for pirated content, sounds like a good opportunity for you
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I wonder.
This has nothing to do with justice or paying royalties. It is pure nonsense from technical point of view (does the purcased material work on all owned media?), it is abuse of consumers because they become criminals if they make backup copies and it does bring money to lawyers and organisations like riaa.
The choice, justice, our rights and quality suffer in a process.
Sad thing is: there is no es
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If you want to be more like allofmp3, you can have another friend set up his own rights clearance organization. It doesn't matter if he's recognized by BMI/ASCAP, etc. -- ROMS certainly isn't, so that's not the point.
Actually, that is the point. ROMS doesn't need to be recognized by BMI/ASCAP because it's in Russia, and so is AllOfMP3.
If you tried to set up your own American AllOfMP3, then you'd have to follow US law... which is why people recommend AllOfMP3 over some US equivalent.
Re:Shhhh (Score:5, Funny)
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"parent is modded funny, but its an informative sort of statement.. do some research and find out how much, exactly, artists are compensated for cd sales by the riaa.. i think you'll find several conflicting points of data, all well below a "reasonable" amount. (think fractions of a percent)"
I've talked to people who've done quite well on sales through iTunes -- the $0.15 per track estimate is about right, in the instances I've confirmed. It's actually much higher than that for many indie artists (whose
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Who? I mean if they're selling tracks on iTunes or CDBaby, their identity is hardly a giant secret, right?
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The more people that don't pay, the sooner the leeches go out of business and and the artists find other ways of making money, hopefully that involve getting a larger slice of the pie. You don't really think that the 20th century model of the music industry is going to stick around, do you?
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This isn't about feeling morally just, it's about hating the RIAA, who are completely unjust in bullying people into submission whilst trying to justify their existence as the owners and righteous beneficiaries of music. I don't condone stealing but it's the
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True, but inadequate compensation for others is no barrier to libertarian idealism!
Why, just today I was praising the wisdom of the market and-- Huh?
What's that? I'm being outsourced?
Hey waitaminnit! It's not fair!
Correct, that isn't at all why it's justified. (Score:2)
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They've got the "full compensation" bit down to a fine art. It's the "for artists" bit they have trouble with.
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AllOfMP3 was piracy, you were just paying for it. Just because it dressed itself up in a professional website and pretended to be something else doesn't change that.
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It's my understanding that AllOfMP3 is legally operating within Russia, that the various music associations have tried to get it shut down within Russia but have been unable to because it has been following the law, as it is written in Russia. It may or may not violate copyright and/or other laws for an individual to download from their site
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Indeed. And what kind of an arrangement would that be? It would be an arrangement where AllOfMP3 decided (themselves) that they are operating within a loophole in Russian law (defined by themselves) that says they pay a royalty rate that they decided (themselves). And all the labels need to do is fall into line and take the money that AllOfMP3
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Check out http://www.pro-music.org/ , it lists all legal places to buy digital music on the web. It's
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Personally, I prefer to cut out these parasitic middlemen and deal with my bands directly - either with their own web shop, or their nominated seller. Fortunately my favourite bands are fiercely independent, so buying direct is the norm rather than the exception.
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actionable? (Score:5, Interesting)
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Just like these people:
http://gpl-violations.org/news/20060922-dlink-jud
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They already have in the country of Eurasia.
Seriously, the world today is almost like the wild west where there really isn't any law except for those that think there is law and that they are in charge. IFPI. Who are those guys?
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It's broadly equivalent to me (in the UK) going after your business partners (in France) when your business is based in the States and doesn't have subsidiaries in either the UK or France. What are you going to do about it?
See the comment in the summary? (Score:2)
I would love to see how the astroturfers here spin this, go on.
At this point doing things the RIAA doesn't like is basically necessary civil disobedience.
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Civil disobedience! (Score:2)
Yes, because the right to share somebody else's creations with friends and strangers is unalienable.
Saharov [wikipedia.org] and Ghandi [wikipedia.org] would've been proud of your stand.
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Yes, because the right to share somebody else's creations with friends and strangers is unalienable.
Sharing information is as natural a human trait as walking and talking. It enables people to pass knowledge and culture from one generation to the next. Being that inalienable rights are pretty much defined as being those that are natural, sharing others creations could indeed be considered an inalienable right.
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Of course! What could possibly be wrong about this group [itv.com]'s actions? Too bad, they are going to prison for 4-8 years each over their little "civil disobedience". Truly, America has lost its way!
And if the right to do so is infringed, the important works of the entertainers will be completely lost on the next generations. Just think — your son might n
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Too bad, they are going to prison for 4-8 years each over their little "civil disobedience".
And well they should as they were attempting to sell, not share.
And if the right to do so is infringed, the important works of the entertainers will be completely lost on the next generations. Fortunately, hundreds of millions of CDs produced by the entertainers will make sure, anyone, who wants to, can preserve the cherished memories.
Many out of print books and old films have already been lost due to lack of profit
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There is no difference — had the tried to simply give the secret away to Pepsi, they would still be criminals, even if the sentence could've been less harsh. AllofMP3, BTW, is selling...
Yes, of course — we wou
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Yes, of course -- we would trade books, tapes, or CDs. Humans weren't able to create digitally-perfect copies of anything until fairly recently -- less than a generation ago, yet you make it sound, like some "dawn-of-man" law of nature is being violated by these greedy *AA bastards.
So your mother didn't teach you songs as a child, possibly ones her mother taught her? Your father didn't show you how to use a hammer, as his father showed him? People have been doing such things since the first ape climbed down
my attorney in the UK ? (Score:5, Insightful)
since when has anybody in the UK called a solicitor or lawyer/barrister an "attorney"
that word is used almost exclusivly by Americans, was this reseller an American in the UK or was the "quote" edited for a US audience
smells like bullshit here in London
Re:my attorney in the UK ? (Score:4, Insightful)
The whole story seems like astroturfing designed to scare the bejesus out of the remaining resellers.
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Whatever works. They don't care. It is clearly up the us to be more careful how we spend our money. To keep it our of their hands, don't buy their product. Lot's of talk about boycotts and stuff, but a closely related industry is making more money than they ever have (plugging journal). So I would see no reason why they should change their behavior. It still pays off quite well. Just like with spammers. It i
In the US... (Score:3)
we call them leeches, parasites,...
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There are a goodly many English Teachers who teach American English, thus anyone who has learned to speak/write English after learning in that environment will refer to a legal representative as an Attorney, rather than a Solicitor.
So, no, doesn't smell like Bullshit here in Bath/Bristol.
Legal system problem (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Legal system problem (Score:4, Insightful)
Almost there.
Which makes justice impossible. for those who aren't wealthy .
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Try using more words next time, and as a bonus feel free to make some of them your own!
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After being raped, that's the least I could ask for. But some flowers and a box of chocolates with a "thank you" note would be a nice touch. Maybe even a phone number?
sigh (Score:5, Interesting)
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"Is it me or is the whole DRM, RIAA, ect getting out of hand realy fast, there attacking people in other contries."
Huh? This article was about the IFPI; they're an international trade group operating in a whole bunch of countries.
If this were about the RIAA (a US organization) causing a ruckus in the UK, then you're right -- it would be a little weird.
"The music industry seems determined to choke off" (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:"The music industry seems determined to choke o (Score:2)
To me, "The music industry" seems to have become the bane of civil and modern life. As if there exist no problems in the world, no wars, no poverty, no economic issues but fucking more-cash problems of the "music industry". makes one start to treat individuals involved in this "music industry" like lowlifes in everyday life.
- emphasis mine
"Makes one start to treat individuals involved in this 'music industry' like the lowlifes that they really are."
There, that sounds better
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Re:"The music industry seems determined to choke o (Score:4, Informative)
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As far as I can tell, if you don't download music you don't own or aren't getting from a highly questionable source then you won't have any problems. Maybe I missed it but has there be
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hmmm.
like having innovation, free speech and competitio not being stifled by insane laws that are passed through music industry funding ?
like, "intellectual property" exploitation that walks in the verge of banning people from using certain words in daily speech ?
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Really? Musicians, and the people they pay/hire/work with to handle the business end of what they do (so they can concentrate on making music) are the 'bane of civil and modern life?' But some company that wants to rip those musicians off by not paying for their work, and then turn around and sell what they've ripped off... you consider that to be... what? a good example of civility? If civilization is marked by its abilit
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There is an enormous difference. Follow a few successful artists' business careers. They work (in starving artist mode), and some of them produce something with enough critical and commercial draw that they make some real money. MANY of them form their own production and publishing companies specifically so that they can help out or promote other "starving" artists with contracts that are favorable to the artists. And guess what: many of those company-forming artists immediately se
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"ripped off" of the 1 million $ more that they would be making in addition to the $20 million they already did. or a one to 10 or a 2 to 40. very very unfair. its outright civil to create a police state and implement controls over all pcs and internet in order to give them their "right" share.
IFPI is doing democracy a favor! Or perhaps not. (Score:2)
To me, "The music industry" seems to have become the bane of civil and modern life.
Seen from an oblique angle, this pesky MAFIAA/IFPI outfit is perhaps doing democracy a service. How so? We all know that eternal vigilance is the price of freedom. And those lobbyists are actually exposing a flaw in the democracies of most countries: a blatant lack of vigilance! The more they buy off civil liberties [*] away from the People, and the more draconian the laws become that they buy from those all too easily co
Nice to See (Score:1)
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The Fraud Act 2006 Requires Intent (Score:2)
Ironic (Score:5, Insightful)
One can certainly argue against the moral rightness of the way the Russian copyright licensing laws work, since no American artist will ever see any of the fees that the Russian copyright organization collects. But certainly the RIAA is clearly acting morally wrong as well.
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And you think that is somehow ironic? How ironic.
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Re:Ironic (Score:4, Insightful)
"Actually, any artist can collect fees from Russian music collecting agency. And Russian collecting agency is also a non-profit organization."
Okay, pretend you're a moderately successful artist. You sold 1,000 copies of your album on iTunes last month for which you netted about $1K. You suspect that allofmp3 also sold about 1,000 copies of your album last month (you have no way of knowing... artists have asked allofmp3 to release sales data, but they refuse). They sold them for $0.60 each, to which the collecting society perhaps got about $0.06, of which you might see $0.04. So, somewhere out there, somebody has $40.00 for you.
After finding ROMS' site and the English version thereof, you get to this page [www.roms.ru] before you hit a wall. If says that if you had "concluded an agreement" with ROMS (which you most likely have not), you are entitled to compensation, but ROMS does not tell you how you can go about this. You might note that by comparison, the corresponding page on ASCAP [ascap.com] is much more useful. This is because ASCAP is run by and for artists, and is looking out for your best interests. Unlike ROMS, they're not a front for a pirate site.
At what point do you give up, and admit that the Russians effectively get to keep your $40?
Re:Ironic (Score:4, Informative)
I can read Russian, so I've read their contract: http://www.roms.ru/download/authors/1.doc [www.roms.ru] It says that you can collect fees retroactively.
A typical CD costs about $5 in Russia (including licensed CDs from Western artists). Generally, CD contains about 10 songs, so it's 50 cents per song (notice, it's less expensive than AoMP3). One usually gets less than 10% from actual CD price, so artists in Russia can get more from ROMS than from actual CD sales.
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IFPI (Score:1)
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IFPI Regional Office for Latin America
10451 NW 117th Avenue
Suite 105
Miami
Florida
33178
USA
Tel: +1 305 567 0861
Fax: +1 305 567 0871
Russian Law (Score:3, Insightful)
If AllOfMP3.com doesn't survive long enough to be tested in Russian court (and subsequently in Russian police offices), we might never know whether another bizmodel or just other outside-Russian operations could survive to be tweaked into a way that survives.
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And sure enough, I think EMI's decision to ditch DRM on iTunes is part of the new competitive environment we can thank AllofMP3 for.
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So long as the laws that do work, including the laws of eco
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Last year, when AllOfMP3.com made headlines (on Slashdot, at least), there was some indication that Russian law would be changed by the end of last year to undermine AllOfMP3.com's freedom to operate as unhindered as they had. Were those changes made? What are the new restrictions? How have they changed AllOfMP3.com's oper
whoops (Score:2)
www.mp3sugar.com (Score:2)
Only downer with this is that all music is 256kbps
What about all of the other Allofmp3 clones...? (Score:2, Interesting)
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But is the cat out of the bottle? Is the genie out of the bag? Have you counted your ducks before they have hatched? Have the cows come home to roost? Are all the chickens lined up in a row? Have the gerbils
been lubricated?Re: (Score:2)
You say it as if it was a fact. It would appear the law thinks there's a good chance they were.
If I sold vouchers redeemable at your local fence, would I be doing anything illegal? It's not a distinction I'd like to argue in court, which is what all those resellers have concluded.
If the music industry doesn't respect the law, then why should the 'pirates'?
Well if you're going to use that level of argument, I think a "They started it first!" answers any further questio
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Good. You should think about using some. The social contract that you have implicitly entered into by being a citizen of said state forbids such activity to its citizens, and allows it, under a certain set of circumstances, to certain state employees. Now, as long as the state upholds its end of the deal, the citizens should uphold theirs.
In the matter of copyright law, we have a similar contract. However, the music industry has cleverly bankrolled legislation to make sure they
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The US Supreme Court, ruling on the legality of the Bono copyright extension of a few years ago, very clearly stated that while their ruling should not in any way be interpreted to mean that copyright extension was a good idea, that "life of the author plus 70 years" (or is it 75 years?) did indeed
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You know, that's great. It must be nice to be the one party able to re-negotiate the terms of a contract. Does it work for banks? If you get a loan to purchase a home, and it comes time for your last payment, can the bank run to Congress or the courts and demand that you should continue your monthly payments for another 20 years? Name anothe
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Its overstepping their bounds. If someone builds a house thats identical to mine, and I have a patent on my home design (say its something really quite asoundingly diffrent and usefull, or hell, given our patent system its just any old home, but thats a diffrent discussion) this would be akin to suing not only the home owner who paid for the home to be built, but to sue John Smit