Behind the Scenes of Canada's Movie Piracy Law 186
An anonymous reader writes "Michael Geist's latest Toronto Star column features a behind-the-scenes look at how Canada got its movie piracy bill based on internal government documents obtained under the Access to Information Act. Few will be shocked to learn that Hollywood lobbyists provided draft legislation months earlier as part of their barrage of lobbying, though the documents show that advisers to the Minister were skeptical that the proposal would accomplish anything. From the article: 'The industry's lobby efforts were clearly successful. Ignoring the inconsistent claims, the absence of evidence that Canadian films are being affected, the contrary internal advice, and the bracing reality that Hollywood has acknowledged that the U.S. is by far the largest source of illegal camcording worldwide notwithstanding its movie piracy legislation, Bill C-59 is expected to sail through Parliament. In doing so, Ottawa is sending Canadians two messages. The first is what drew the industry standing ovation - unauthorized camcording will not be tolerated in Canada even if it means diverting law enforcement resources from health and safety issues to movie theatres. The second is that private meetings, foreign pressures and lobbyist drafted bills is how law gets made in Canada.'"
uh... (Score:4, Insightful)
I'd rather not do that... to me, health and safety is worth more than money.
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Then you obviously dont have enough yet.
Keep it real (Score:3, Funny)
Reap it keel. (Score:2)
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well, now each theatre has at least 2 cops (Score:5, Informative)
Greater lineups? You bet! However, it's not so much the lineups as the feeling that a little bit of dignity is robbed away from you.
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That's funny, I went to the theater (Calgary / Cineplex Odeon) on Friday afternoon and although I saw the signs saying they would
Re:well, now each theatre has at least 2 cops (Score:4, Insightful)
And of course, this will all be blamed on the evil pirates. Instead of adding police state methodes on top of overpriced tickets and crappy movies without a script worth the name.
Remember Ocean's 11, or the pirates win! (Score:2)
Next, the MPAA will gather the names of known and suspected pirates, their aliases, and their birth dates and issue a list of people not permitted entry into any movie theater. No photos, no descriptions, just names and birth dates. A kind of No-Cinema List.
Sure, some people who may have the same n
No-Cinema List == No-Fly List (Score:2)
Maybe I should have just stuck with my first thought: "Yeah, long lines and being treated like they were criminals really made people refuse to go to airports anymore, didn't it?"
They're treating movie goers like potential airplane hijackers!
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Oh,
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I don't think they are going to tax that to the competition. In the end it is all about money. It doesn't really matter who or where or what party it is about money. The entire taking money from health and safety is probably just to guilt trip the C
What are you...a communist?!? (Score:5, Funny)
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Well, me too, but diverting cops isn't really going to affect that.
You see, most cops are glorified ticket writers and traffic directors, with a license to carry a firearm and harass you at will. And in any case, they are not there to protect you as that is impossible! You'd need vastly more cops, and/or a total surveillance soc
Just another day in the 51st State (Score:5, Insightful)
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I think its more along the lines of "Stephen Harper as his head shoved so far up Bush's ass that when Bush speaks, Harper can see his adenoids".
This is what you get when you combine a bunch of red-neck fundamentalists (the Reform Party) with a bunch of burned-out hacks desperate for power at any cost (what was left after the original Conservatives imploded).
Maybe we should all just separate from Ottawa.
Re:Just another day in the 51st State (Score:5, Funny)
My favourite version of this quote is, "Stephen Harper is so far up George Bush's ass that he can almost see Tony Blair's feet."
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ttyl
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It is news. Or at the very least slightly important information. The MPs responsible need to be listed, so that we may know to not vote for them, their party pubilcly shamed(of which this thread is an example), etc.
As far as I know Canada is still governed by Canadians, Canadian Laws, and (our sovereign) the Queen of Canada. We still have the choice whether or not to accept Continental rule. We can probably even get out of NAFTA if we were so motivated. Granted, I think we collectively would choose C
Changes in my life (Score:4, Interesting)
in the words of Seinfeld (Score:2)
...not that there's anything wrong with that...
a film makers job (Score:5, Funny)
Yeah. Whatever you say there, spark (Score:2)
I don't know about you Canadians, but if I lived there this would piss me off beyond comprehension. (It still pisses me off even though I don't live there, but if I did live there and my wife died at a car accident scene because no cops were around and someone else ran into her car....yeah. It wou
Provincial yawn... (Score:2)
Without the consent of the theatre manager? (Score:5, Insightful)
The bill, at Bill C-59 [parl.gc.ca] says that it's only a crime if the theatre manager says so.
This allows the manager to set his own camera up in the projection room, which is conveient, but not as convenient as running the film through a scanner or the DVD through a duplicator.
Perhaps the drafters think that theatre managers can't be bribed?
--dave
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Wouldn't it be something a trade union would object to, as only a manager can brak the law with impunity (;-))
--dave
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why would they (unions) be for it then? last time i checked, managers aren't union members, so it cuts them (the union members) out of it.
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Actually she won't: the great majority of copies are made using professional scanners/duplicators, from "screener" DVDs and distributed films. Only a small number are done by amateurs, ofen in the third world where bribes are cheap but scanners are expensive
--dave
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How they got their law: (Score:5, Insightful)
No one should be the least bit surprised. Its how governments work now.
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Governments have always worked this way. They protect the industries on their soil by using all means necessary to coerce other countries into accepting what is the most favorable trade agreements (in this case laws) for them. That was one of the reasons the FTAA (Free Trade Area of the Americas) failed in South America. It was not because the countries there wanted to remain separate (most of them are part of some trade zone), it was because they were weary of having the US
There too? (Score:3, Insightful)
Overcompensation... (Score:3, Insightful)
The second is that private meetings, foreign pressures and lobbyist drafted bills is how law gets made in Canada. Unless the one who posted this has been living in a bomb shelter for the past 50 years... Has anyone ever noticed that businesses have been dictating laws since the inception of time? Coca Cola and others did similar things in Latin America once upon a time, Airbus in France, and countless other companies here in the US. Get over it.
Why get over it? (Score:2)
but american idol is far more fun and far less effort.
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As usual, it's the best law money can buy (Score:2)
Despite no proven detrimental effect to Canada they have passed laws to restrict behaviour and use tax money to enforce the restrictions, all at the say so of corporate interests.
This pretty much sums up what I hate about the world right now. Democracy is dead.
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Agreed - I refuse to vote any longer as it is a complete waste of time, and I encourage others to protest by not voting, contrary to the Much/MTV Get Out the Vote Campaigns. Until there is proportional representation, boycott and tell them that their election is in no way a reflection of how a democracy should work.
For those interested in a fairer system:
www.fairvotecanada.org
Not a big impact (Score:2, Insightful)
Went for touchdown, got field goal (Score:5, Informative)
No, cops won't stop doing policing over it. They are certainly not going to drop a car chase or a stakeout to go pick up a kid with a camcorder. That's just silly.
As for the thin edge of the wedge, the conservatives are not doing well in the polls, and they only managed a minority government last time after catching the liberals in what they billed the scandal of the century. They are not going to be around for much longer anyway. Then we will get the do-nothing liberals, and that's what htey wil do - nothing.
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Re:Went for touchdown, got field goal (Score:4, Insightful)
The liberals will generally do nothing about anything, anytime. The conservatives will screw things up worse and sell out to the US at the drop of a drool-covered hat. The NDP doesn't stand a snowball's chance in hell at getting elected, but if they did, they'd attack business to the extent that the economy would tank. Then there's the Bloc, which should be illegal since they're a regional separatist party dedicated to destroying the country. Ironically, the Green party (which should by definition be a dedicated single-issue party) actually has a very comprehensive and well thought-out platform, but they haven't got a single seat in their history.
All things considered, doing nothing is not bad. Not good, but not bad.
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> actually has a very comprehensive and well thought-out platform,
> but they haven't got a single seat in their history.
(emphasis mine)
And what are you doing about it?
Allow me to introduce exhibit A, (Score:2)
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As for the party, single-issue parties are inherently self-limiting. (That said, I'd be quite happy to see a requirement for all parties to provide at least a minimum statement on a set of major issues.)
However, people and/or parties who are philosophically opposed to th
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Well, when I look at the laws created recently, I dunno if a government doing nothing would be such a bad alternative. We have sensible laws in place, so executive and judicative would be enough for my tastes. Generally, when you look around, you only see more and more incredibly insane laws spring up which are either unenforcable or just against the interests of the general population.
So yes, a government that is unable, unwill
"Copyright reform" still a government priority (Score:4, Insightful)
I hope you know something I don't. With regards to the anti-camcording bill, the head of the Canadian Motion Picture Distributors Association[2] said [michaelgeist.ca] it "is really the first step - not only for the movie industry - where the government has shown it will seriously address the whole area of intellectual property theft." Reports are [michaelgeist.ca] that the government intends to go ahead with a DMCA-style "reform". Bev Oda, one of the two ministers responsible for copyright, has previously said [blogspot.com] Canada will ratify international treaties, implying that includes the WIPO treaty on which the DMCA is based[1]. The 2007-2008 Report [tbs-sct.gc.ca] on Plans and Priorities lists "copyright reform" as a priority to which the government has "previously committed". Given the
On the up side, now is not the time to give up: the significant opposition to stronger copyright provisions seems be having an effect. While the RPP's statement on the issue points towards anti-circumvention legislation and a flawed conception of copyright as a simple conflict between creators and consumers (when in fact there are creators on both sides, and citizens and the public interest are directly affected), it avoids committing to any paricular course of action:
I wrote to her in January and received a similarly ambiguous reply: "the Government is continuing to consider the concerns of all Canadians . . . The Government wants to ensure that the rights of Canadian creators are adequately protected by law, and that these rights are balanced with the ability of the public to access works."
[1] I should point out that Canada is under no obligation to ratify the WIPO treaty. Even if we do, the treaty's [wipo.int] anti-circumvention provisions don't require all of the excesses of the DMCA:
[2] For the most part we don't make Canadian films, we distribute American ones. For the distributors, maximalist intellectual monopoly laws are in their interests even if they inhibit the production of Canadian films.
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Canadian politics (Score:2)
Isn't politics pretty much like this everywhere though? If politicians don't actually listen to people and take actions (albeit yes they should be able to discriminate between ordinary Joe citizen and a paid lobbyist) - what exactly are they there for?
The movie industry nievely thinks that having an extra law will reduce the piracy - it won't - even with greater enforcement the pirates will fin
Harpers Bizzare (Score:5, Insightful)
Wonder if he's going to give the Canadian people back their CD levies? ($0.29 per unit for Audio Cassette tape (40min or longer); $0.77 per unit for CD-R Audio, CD-RW-Audio & MiniDisc; $0.21 per unit for CD-R, CD-RW (non audio) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_copying_levy [wikipedia.org] )
Stop voting for people like this. It only encourages them.
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IMHO, the Canadian political landscape was significantly damaged by the merger of the PC and CA parties.
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Actually, if you really are centrist or right-of-center, you will know that Harper and the CPC have taken a hard turn to the left. (If you really are leftisch, you won't have noticed; many studies show that lefties tend to be unaware of their own or any one else's leftishness.)
Conservative voters can only hope that this is a strategy to get a majority in the next election, that it will be successful, and that the CPC will revert to the right after forming the government. It's a long shot, but one can alway
You get what you vote for (Score:2)
Come election time, there may be 30 or so issues, yet we have to narrow down our vote to two parties. My local member doesn't represent me. They made have made sense a few hundred years ago, but these days
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Does it really matter? (Score:2)
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You get to see a half minute preview and it's hot! Lots of action, great scenes, impressive effects... then you see the screener and notice that those 30 seconds are pretty much ALL the good scenes in the movie.
Question for 100: Are you going to go see the movie on the big screen?
You might have done that if you hadn't the opportunity to see the screener and notice that the movie is crap. So yes, screeners do hurt Hollywood...
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Foreign Interference?? (Score:5, Insightful)
I thought this whole business was remarkably clever of the Canadian government. They managed to sidestep a messy showdown with Hollywood by outlawing something that isn't a problem. Seriously, our movie theatres are not giant igloos, and pirating movies on a camcorder hasn't been an issue for a decade or more (has it ever been?). These days pirated movies usually come from stolen or "borrowed" cinema masters.
Given the choice between having Hollywood lobbying against something stupid, like a camcorder ban, or something more serious, like a DMCA equivalent, I'd much rather pacify them with the stupid stuff.
Damn Straight! (Score:2)
An inconsequential smolder has been smothered rather than face an inferno from Hollywood's fattest wallets. That's a good move -- it represents a certain economy of action that's often lacking in Canadian government.
No DCMA equivalent in Canada! Vive le Canada semi-libre!
Re:Damn Straight! (Score:4, Insightful)
It is a clever move to toss them a bone rather than having them agitate for your entire skeleton, especially when the bone you toss is meaningless and costs you nothing.
What inferno? The MPAA can't do jack against another country, and they aren't going to stop releasing movies in Canada if this doesn't pass.
Did you honestly just say "the MPAA can't do jack against another country" without giggling? Why don't you ask a Swede how they feel about the MPAA's influence in their country? You might come away better informed.
Canada's exhibitor industry exists only by the leave of the various American movie associations who sell them content. I've been e-mailing back and forth with a friend who works for one of the major studios here, and I can tell you that around their office they're damn thankful at how this turned out because the alternative meant possible industry action, which threatens their paycheques directly (she's in exhibitor relations).
In this situation, the Americans hold all the cards. They own the movies, and in most cases they own the movie theatres.
Negotiating with bullies so that they're under the impression you've conceded to their demands when in fact nothing has changed is a clever move. It's called diplomacy, and it works.
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Did you even read what I was replying to? I quoted it and everything.
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Useless law - provinces will ignore it (Score:3, Insightful)
Provinces are responsible for law enforcement - they'll just ignore it as another idiotic Ottawa publicity stunt.
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The federal goverment can pass the law (because criminal law is a federal matter) but it is up to the provincial attorney-generals to enforce it (because policing and maintaining law and order is a provincial matter). Not to long ago, while the Liberals formed the federal government and wanted the "long gun" registry funded and enforced, the governments of a few provinces said "fine, but we're not going to devote any resources to it, or prosecute anyone for fail
This is the fundamental problem of capitalism... (Score:2)
Comment removed (Score:3, Funny)
I miss the Liberals (Score:2)
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"What the Canadian people really want are two Liberal parties - one to vote into office when the other becomes too corrupt to governern."
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movies vs guns vs common sense (Score:3, Insightful)
I wish governments and big business on *both* sides of the border would devote as much attention, time and money to the issue of illegal handgun imports into Canada as they do about movie piracy. I don't know about the rest of you people, but I am a lot more afraid of somebody walking into a local movie theatre here in Canada with an illegal handgun than an illegal camcorder. Are movies worth more than lives anymore?
The other issue to me, one that Hollywood & the studios and others never address, is that for me and my family (two adults, two children) to go see a movie in a theatre today, with admission, parking, car gas, popcorn, drinks, etc, etc, I'll spend at least $100. I don't have that kind of money to go as often as I would like too. Sorry Hollywood, but this month the car needed fixing and the kids needed dental work. I am sure most of you have similar stories. I am also pretty peaved that the very fews times I do go to a movie theatre, I have to sit through several minutes of commercials for an event I PAY to attend. This turns me off completely. Are you guys litening out there?
But I will and do buy DVDs.
With everybody buying larger and larger TVs, home theatre systems, etc, etc, why not release DVDs of new movies at the same time as they are released in theatres? I imagine you would kill off a lot of piracy right there and then. I don't have the big screen LCD TV myself (yet), but someday when I do, I'd rather stay home and watch movies in the comfort of my own house.
Movie distribution today is bascially a very flawed business model due to many factors, including some of those listed above,a nd trying to place the blame on piracy will do nothing to help. Wake up and smell the coffee.
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The solution is to make it legal, as well as reasonably easy to get a handgun. Do some psychological test, require some training, issue a certificate and allow people who have it to purchase guns. The more law-abiding armed people who know how to use a gun you have in your streets, the more risky it will be for a th
Lobbyist-supplied legislation is normal... (Score:3, Insightful)
That doesn't mean that this law was in any way useful or good (it isn't), but the fact that it was written by a lobbyist is not inherently evil. If the FSF had pushed for a bill requiring the govt. to consider Free Software for all procurement purchases over $X, I don't think Slashdot would be screaming.
Of course, that does not absolve lawmakers from their responsibility to look over any proposed legislation and suggest it be modified or tanked...
SirWired
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Laws should be made for the benefit of the majority, or for the protection of minorities that require protection from larger gro
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You have to remember that from twisted logic of the MPAA (or the Canadian equiv.), making an attempt to stop piracy in this fashion IS for the common good, even if Sla
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WHAT?? (Score:2)
"Our law that we wrote says its illegal to use a camcorder in a theaters, and we have had local athorities install automated gun turrets installed to enforce it." -- The MPAA
... and third (Score:2)
Awesome... (Score:2)
This is so awesome. I went to the Calgary premiere of Grindhouse a couple months ago and they were super-strict about recording stuff. Anyone with a camera on their mobile phone had to sign a waiver (!!) and check it in for the duration of the movie. Naturally, I set my ringer to "PIERCINGLY LOUD" and planned on making some calls from non-camera phones later on, just to get a giggle. Anyways, the mall cops at the entrance were so frazzled by having to confiscate all these phones that they didn't notice (or
Has anyone mentioned... (Score:2)
This statement is sort of obvious (Score:2)
Hey, that's how it gets made EVERYWHERE - especially in the United States.
When a US Senator gets a half million dollar bribe from the Turkish lobby to kill the Turkey-Armenia bill, well, that's just chicken feed compared to what else goes on in the "land of the free".
"Corrupt politicians" is a redundant phrase.
It's happened before (Score:2)
History Channel's "Secret Superpower Aircraft" made a pretty good case that Canada's early-1970's mach-2 fighter was scrapped because of pressure from U.S. industry (which had no comparable fighter, as all resources were being diverted to bomber programs).
It's fun being our neighbors, eh?
On Harper and Bono (Score:2)
Quite frankly, this was the first time I ever approved of anything Harper's done.
He acts like every other slimy politician most of the time, but he earned quite a bit of respect from me that day. As a Canadian, I haven't had much respect for any federal politicians for decades. Was rather proud of my country, if only a little more, that day.
Politicians chasing photo-ops with celebs is just one reason I think they're all scumbags. Nice to see a refreshing chan
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Ticked off Bono!?!? (Score:2)
That's a shame, because everybody knows that washed-up Irish rockers are experts on Canadian foreign policy (just ask Bob Geldoff).
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the elected senate in the US doesn't seem to do a whole lot in the way of representing the people, so i question the value of it, as it would give yet another opportunity for the same party in all 3 tiers, which i generally consider to be a bad thing.
and in any case, the senate here has practically no power anymore (when was the last time something was stopped by the senate?), and is unlikely to have any more power in the foreseeable future.
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and Arnold Schwarzenegger with his giant biceps.
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