FCC Delays Vote On Cable TV Regulation 111
Tech.Luver recommends a story unfolding at the FCC, where Chairman Kevin Martin delayed a vote on a report that would open the door to more agency control over the cable television industry. Analysts say that Martin lacked support to pass the measure. The delayed vote was on a draft report, backed by Martin, that found that cable companies control enough of the pay-TV market to warrant more oversight under the so-called "70/70" rule — 70% of US households passed by cable and 70% of those with access to cable service subscribing to it. The cable industry disputed the figures in the report, and Martin's two fellow Republican commission members also expressed doubts.
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Re:Just what we need. (Score:4, Insightful)
Yeah, I'd say we do. Has cable service and pricing gotten better or worse since they were deregulated in 1996?
The industry has had their chance, and they've shown they'll just collude and buy up new companies, leaving things exactly the way they were competition-wise, only with less oversight to keep them from taking advantage of the situation.
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This isn't the power/gas/phone/water company (you know... *essential* services for living) screwing us over -- it's TV. Get over it, tell the cable/satellite company to take a flying leap, subscribe to a DVD-by-mail service, and live a more simple, more peaceful life.
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Except that they're not exactly without regulation.
How many municipalities decided that cable networks competing for the same neighborhood would be "wasteful" and only allow one or two companies to provide service?
Competition = good. Except that it's illegal in some places. I wonder why prices are high.
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None of these are particularly strong reasons, but when has that ever stoppe
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Cable companies "colluding" with local governments is another example of how government needs to be removed from the equation, not added.
Cable companies lobbying for "must-carry" laws to hinder satellite TV is also an example of why government needs to be removed.
So is "a lot of other voters hate cable companies." If the government would stop regulating which company can stab which other company in the back, we'd have a lot less problems with superinfluential cable companies.
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You should consider loving your democracy (and caring for it) instead of hating it -- people fought long and hard to get it, and there's no guarantee it'll be around forever.
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You should consider loving your democracy (and caring for it) instead of hating it
Please don't confuse my dislike for a bloated and wasteful government with "hating democracy." Remember that our founding fathers had a healthy distrust of both government and democracy - they went through the Articles of Confederation and the Constitution to cripple the former, and we are a "democratic republic" (not a democracy!) to prevent what they called the "tyranny of the majority."
Government, by it's nature, is
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The arguments, with a different spin are:
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And the alternative would be.... the cable company, which I work for one (small one). Would you pay 10$ to rent a cable card? That new TiVO is going to cost you 13$ a month from TiVO and 20$ from your cable company for dual cable card service.
The company I work for naturally drags its feet when it comes to adopting this stuff, the best way to prevent widespread use is to charge an ass load for it. The only cool thing about my company is that if you want
Re:Just what we need. (Score:5, Informative)
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Contrary to American belief, cable TV is not vital to your safety. Nor is it a necessity that may warrant regulation as a utility.
Cable TV is a luxury. If you don't like it or can't accept the terms, DON'T SUBSCRIBE.
Turn off your TV!
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and
ride a bike!
and
Use candles!
I declair shenanigans (Score:1)
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Actually, airbags, seat belts, and the likes were initially initiatives by the car companies that became so common place that the government then mandated as a safety aspect after the they were out by a majority of manufacturers.
For instance, in 1994 it was common to have dual airbags; by 1998 it was common to
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No one calls them on the constitution (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Fuck the FCC (Score:5, Informative)
Who said anything about censorship? This was a push to get more regulatory control over the cable industry in order to do things like force a la carte subscription options. You could argue that government has no place to regulate private industry like that, but that has nothing to do with free speech or censorship.
Also, the FCC doesn't cover cable-only channels like FX (lots of "shit" and near nudity there with shows like The Shield and Nip/Tuck, with only self-regulation stopping them from going further), in terms of censorship. They cover broadcast channels that then happen to be re-distributed via cable.
Congress can't make it illegal for you to say "shit" or "fuck" or show a tit on TV, but they don't have to allow you to use the public airwaves to do it.
You obviously can be fined, for some reason. (Score:1)
Re:Fuck the FCC (Score:4, Insightful)
Correct. However, the FCC have demonstrated a very clear desire to censor cable and sat. broadcasts on many occasions. Concern in this regard may be untopical, but it is hardly unjustified.
Re:Fuck the FCC (Score:5, Insightful)
Congress can't make it illegal for you to say "shit" or "fuck" or show a tit on TV, but they don't have to allow you to use the public airwaves to do it.
Thank you, Thomas Paine. I suppose it follows that they can't make it illegal for you to stage a protest, but they don't have to allow you to use public property to do it. Right? Wrong.
I can't believe this authoritarian bullshit I'm replying to is standing at +5 Informative. Exercising your freedom of speech means something only if it's in public. What the hell is the point of protecting private speech?
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Public Interest (Score:2)
I would note that any protest you staged that is considered to do harm to the public interest can be stopped. This is why we forbid hate speech; it generates a toxic environment. Similarly, with airwaves, the reasoning is that because there is a limited number, and everyone has access to them and regularly utilizes it, we should be aware of how what we put there affects them. In the interest of children, for instance, we forbid certain categories of behavior being portrayed during certain periods of the day
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I would note that any protest you staged that is considered to do harm to the public interest can be stopped. This is why we forbid hate speech; it generates a toxic environment. Similarly, with airwaves, the reasoning is that because there is a limited number, and everyone has access to them and regularly utilizes it, we should be aware of how what we put there affects them. In the interest of children, for instance, we forbid certain categories of behavior being portrayed during certain periods of the day.
The problem with this approach is that someone has to decide what constitutes hate speech. Right now, certain classes (race, religion) are protected while others (sexual orientation) are not. Since the ability to criticize the government is vital to democracy, we can't trust the government with the power to make any such distinctions. The harm to democracy that arises from outlawing ANY speech far outweighs whatever harm that speech could cause by being heard.
You can argue all you want about the categories, but it's pretty accepted that environments that affect everyone should have some publicly motivated controls on them. The regulator of those controls, ultimately, is the government. And thank goodness! Because we have no inherent protection from corporations or even just other individuals otherwise.
The only difference between the governm
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First of all, you attribute to me a stance I don't hold. But you should see the logic behind the current reasoning before you get so up in arms about it.
The harm to democracy that arises from outlawing ANY speech far outweighs whatever harm that speech could cause by being heard.
So you say. But the thing about democracy is that it does not have to do with what one person holds to be true, or even what the objective truth is, but rather what the society as a whole holds to be true. If the society holds t
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So you say. But the thing about democracy is that it does not have to do with what one person holds to be true, or even what the objective truth is, but rather what the society as a whole holds to be true. If the society holds that hate speech is a form of speech that should not be tolerated, because its harm outweighs the harm done by a degree of censorship - then that is the case. That is, in fact, the meaning of democracy, that these values are decided not by a single authoritative voice, but by a consensus.
That's one reason the Bill of Rights exists, and why it's so difficult to change the Constitution. The framers recognized that free speech is so fundamental to the democratic process that even that process should not be able to abridge it -- at least, not without a great deal of debate. But unfortunately, we've had a series of bad Supreme Court decisions that have limited freedom of speech in the name of safety, decency, and other false idols.
Before you argue, though, that we don't have a true consensus; that is a problem with the process and not the result. If your actual issue is that we do a poor job of achieving a true consensus, then wage that battle instead.
My argument is with the notion that we can ever be better o
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The framers recognized that free speech is so fundamental to the democratic process that even that process should not be able to abridge it -- at least, not without a great deal of debate.
I think, in fact, the framers were against any change being made to be easy. Easy changes mean inconsistency and more importantly allow temporary situations to be leveraged into longer-term tyranny. Arguably this has occurred of late.
But note that they did not disallow change; the need to change is a recognized and v
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So would a free market health system work better? I suggest no: most people are not equipped to have a good idea whether a doctor is good, or a total quack. This is the problem with any expert. If you don't know as much as you need to, it's unlikely you're going to have a good handle on how good they are. And thus, we need a third-party non-invested source to give us the skinny.
I agree. But why should that source be the government? Why couldn't there be multiple private certifying agencies in competition with each other? You seem to value consensus, so why do you insist that all doctors be certified by one central agency? (If that's not what you're insisting, I apologize.)
Should it cost a lot for doctors to get licensed? Yes, because they're important, and it's important that we make sure they're good.
Broken record here, but it should cost
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Um, what? I don't know where you're writing from, but here in the United States, "we" do not forbid "hate speech." We have this little thing called the First Amendment that prevents the government from doing so.
Similarly, I think most people would agree that a Nazi rally [wikipedia.org] can "do harm to the public" but the ACLU nevertheless successfully sued for their right to have their rally.
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My bad. We simply (in the US) legislate in such a way that it is illegal to defame or incite to riot. I would be curious to know if, in the cited event, they were given permission to say things like, "Jews suck", or if they had to stick to "Nazis rule"?
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Any channel that has to rely on content like that must be targeting the trailer trash because only the trailer trash really don't care about their own language and will say whatever they want around anyone because they don't care. For them, "fuck" is as common as "the" so they feel right at home watching FX. It's sad that people don't realize their language is a reflection upon themselves (and they don't care if their kids hear it either) and endorsing FX and others like it is a moral issue that will only exacerbate the problem. FX must be desperate if they have to rely on filth like that.
And yet you not once said why language like 'fuck' is "filth" and why it shouldn't be common. Why should I censor myself around people like you that get all riled up over a word? It's a fucking word, chill the shit out.
Only time I do censor myself is around kids out of respect for their parents; even though I do consider them bat shit crazy.
Let me try! (Score:2)
"Fuck" in most situations is a term that is considered, at the extreme, 'filth', because it is generally used to demarcate a degree of disrespect. Indeed, disrespect being the opposite of respect, not just the lack of it. It should not be common unless you feel a particular need to live in a culture of disrespect.
It is hard to have a word that carries such a strong connotation in common usage if you do not want that connotation to affect the behavior of people. This is not to say that there aren't a host
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That certianly applies to "Fuck You", but fuck is a far more versitle word then to waste it on that use. For instance, if I told someone in all honesty that that they were "A Fucking Genious", ther
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Do you say "fuck" when talking to your mother? What about your kids (if you have any or would you if you did)? Do you say it at work? Do you say it in front of strangers? What about in front of women? If you answered no to any of those then I have to ask why if you think it should be so common.
I would answer yes to all of the above. And do not say it's disrespectful. I'm not calling someone a 'fuck' or trying to down them at all. It's part of language and I use it, so what? Also, I'm not arguing that it should be common, I'm arguing that I shouldn't have to restrain myself for touchy folks like you and the FCC shouldn't be censoring it either.
Just because you have such a thin skin doesn't mean I have to alter my speech(communication of thoughts) to keep you from jumping out a window. Fuc
Re:Fuck the FCC (Score:5, Insightful)
They get to censor because of public mandate. It's less true now (although there are plenty of use who don't mind and wish they would do more). But back when they were founded in '34, the general public would have had a heart attack if they heard someone saying "fuck" on the radio. Same thing for TV when it came along. People liked the FCC doing this (and they still to, for the most part, or at least don't mind).
Then again, a great many more people had a sense of decency back then. Just because you can say something doesn't mean you need to.
Why do they get to regulate signals sent along copper? Two reasons. First of all (and most obviously)... it's public. It's not a private channel it is broadcast. Second, just because you receive something over Cable doesn't mean it isn't on the open airwaves for others. That's why NBC still has to follow those rules. FCC is more lax on cable for this exact reason, especially on pay channels like HBO (where they can do whatever they want with a few exceptions, like child pornography).
Why the police arrest you for saying "fuck"? I doubt they can. Unless you've been belligerent and harassing someone else doing it. In that case, you've already committed a crime. But if you just stand on a corner, yell "fuck", then get on with life as if nothing happened, they can't arrest you.
For the last part... yell at the supreme court. Vote your congressman out. Or understand that that was designed to protect political speech and most people are more worried about that and other important uses (like freedom of the press) than giving you the "right" to say "fuck" whenever you want. It's called priorities.
This message has been a public service (something else the FCC gets to do) by MBCook. Mod as you wish.
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*cough [umkc.edu]*
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thank youuu... thankyouverymuch
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Re:Fuck the FCC (Score:5, Funny)
I just bought a russian made transmitter (runs of rancid potatoes) in order to broadcast my own free channel about cats. C E T network. I'm having difficulties with selecting a stable frequency (russian letters are funny), so anything goes... (usually everybody's cell phone reception within a mile of the transmitter). The FCC doesn't like me having freedoms, and have been hot on my tail, so I installed the device on top of a garbage truck that does the neighborhood rounds daily.
I just wish the government would stay away from my private business. All they want is to protect monopoly of OLD moneys. Back in early '90s I set up my own beeper service, but got violently shut down. Apparently I was 'interfering' with aeroplanes and police business communications. Assholes. I think it's about high time to have airwave anarchy. Let the strongest signal win! Bring it on PBS! You may win elsewhere, but on my block it's gonna be all cats, all the time!
Re:Fuck the FCC (Score:4, Interesting)
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Do I really have the right not to hear something I consider indecent or inappropriate? I severely doubt that a person's use of the word Fuck in conversation interferes with my personal rights and if this is truly how the government views this issue, who gets to decide what constitutes "indecent" or "inappropriate"?
Certainly not me because Bill O'Riley still has a public TV show.
The Common Good (Score:2)
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Where the FCC gets the right is that they are first admendment is not about exact words but about making sure what you want to express get out. The courts have said that certain words just don't have a use in a public discourse; the only exception to this would be saying you want to kill the president or a few other high level officials.
For example Congress h
More governement? (Score:1)
Bah! (Score:1)
70/70 (Score:5, Funny)
It almost succeeds in making it sound like "PRACTICALLY EVERYONE!"
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But as someone who lives in an area not served by cable, I'd like to note that there is some value in tracking the two statistics separately; "70% of all possible subscribers" and "49% of all households" are not obviously the same statistic unless you also know the cable availability rate.
Re:70/70 (Score:4, Interesting)
http://www.ncta.com/ContentView.aspx?contentId=54 [ncta.com]
Those statistics also say that there are 122,500,000 homes "passed by cable" out of 112,00,000 homes with television... so apparently cable is available to 109% of households, which I'd say is pretty impressive.
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Cable Penetration of TV Households (June 2007): 58.3%
The number comes from a third-party research company, and falls well short of the 70% penetration required by the 1984 law. Kevin Martin needs to get his witch's cauldron and cook the numbers a little longer on this one.
Additionally, 'homes passed' doesn't measure only houses where people may live. It also often includes businesses and other locations that the
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I would love to see some historical data on cable subscriber numbers over the years. As far as I can tell, the cable companies know that every time they raise rates they're going to lose a percentage of their subscriber base, so the last 20 years have been a careful balance of keeping the rates right at the pain threshold for consumers so that ~60% will grudgingly subscribe but the 70% requirement for regulation w
As one of the 30%... (Score:2)
That would put me in one of the 70% of cabled houses, and in the 30% of the 100% of that 70% that, while having the wiring, does not have cable.
government logic (Score:2)
Clearly, more control is needed, to protect the children. 9/11
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This isn't (yet) about censorship. (Score:5, Interesting)
And BTW, the "fuck the FCC" people might want to consider that the fight here is between the FCC and CABLE COMPANIES about stuff like whether they should be required to provide a la carte channel options. Stuff that the cable companies may not want, but which doesn't seem to have a whole lot of bearing on free-speech issues. If you want to argue that a government bureaucracy is worse than a corporate oligarchy, that's a fair stance, but having both filed federal taxes and tried to get a decent internet plan from Comcast, I'm ambivalent.
Doesn't the FCC control certain pyshical lines... (Score:1)
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Not only that, but while <cable company> can change its mind at any time about what it will and won't show, the FCC is not only slow acting, but unlikely to ever repeal a decision or reduce restrictions because t
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That sort of thing is content. Maybe instead of lobbying the government or even your cable company to do something about it, you should ask your local television stations since they are the ones actually in charge of what content to put on the air. All of the local stations in my area that have gone digital provide one slice of their signal exclusively for weather. Given channel X on ATSC, X-1 will be
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Re:This isn't (yet) about censorship. (Score:4, Insightful)
Next frontier (Score:2)
Not sure what this means (Score:3, Interesting)
On the one hand, Comcast and their ilk have been dragging their heels implementing things like CableCard and working hard to keep their (in many cases) geographical monopolies safe from any other competition. As far as TV goes, most people's options boil down to little more than an antenna, DirecTV or The Cable Company. If there was an injection of more competition in the market I think we'd see a lot more innovative services like more robust video on demand, ala carte programming options, more and higher quality HD channels, and innovative new services we haven't even thought of.
On the other hand, this 70/70 rule sounds downright silly, as I doubt very much that's the case nationwide. The FCC has proven time and time again that it's an inept bureaucracy more interested in maintaining its own power and relevance than any concern for the public good. Handing them more power is seldom good for anybody.
I might be able to get onboard with something like a 70/70 rule if it was a little more automatic and less prone to government meddling. i.e. Let's say Comcast has 70% of 70% or more in a given metropolitan area--then kick in a rule forcing them to resell wholesale access to their infrastructure to other local competitors to keep them from being the only game in town. And before someone points out it's *their* infrastructure and they built and bought it--they did so with a lot of government subsidies and that infrastructure is sitting on a lot of public land. They only have mini-monopolies because the government has allowed it.
I'm interested to hear other people's takes on the pros and cons of all of this.
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What? The cable industry is already doing that right now!
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Hmmm, what the hell; I've got karma to burn. Your arguments fail to move me -- the examples either apply to telecom as a whole, or are simply untrue. You've clearly never had working knowledge of this industry.
As far as TV goes, most people's options boil down to little more than an antenna, DirecTV or The Cable Company.
True, there are currently 3 competing providers across the US, four if you separate DirectTV and Echostar. There's also FIOS. Some area have overbuilders, essentially a second cable company in the same area. Since I can't possibly come up with another crappy car analogy, we'll have to settle for an
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Nice job Yogi (Score:4, Funny)
so only 30% of US household were NOT passed by cable, and have access to it. And of those 30% who can access cable, only 70% chose to subscribe to it. In conclusion:
70% of households can't have cable
21% of households pay for cable
10**% of households STEAL cable
(**=3% statistical margin of error)
Go tell mom! You heard it first on slashdot. The whole industry has been a miserable failure. The size of tubes required to carry high definition content is so large, the raw materials required for such tubes would strip 4 feet of entire Alaskan top soil. This is why I can only get television through my phone line. I only get one channel. In mono. With no moving pictures.
That was the worst definition of so-called anything. Even by slashdot standards.
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so only 30% of US household were NOT passed by cable, and have access to it.
Huh? I parsed that as 70% of houses have cable PASSING BY, i.e., accessible to them. Spectacularly poor choice of wording.
Oh fuck (Score:2, Funny)
It goes without saying that I for one welcome our new FCC overlords.
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As long as it is not prime time and you use it as an exclamation instead of a reference to a sex act.
Observe:
"I fucked a sheep!?" - forbidden
"Fuck! That was a sheep?" - OK
I'm confused (Score:3, Insightful)
Which high dollar lobbyist and party fund raiser would this benefit? And which high dollar lobbyist and party fund raiser would oppose it?
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Schizophrenic FCC (Score:3, Interesting)
Are they going to force the satellite guys to do this in areas where they are dominant (and yes, in many rural areas, there are many more Dishes than cable lines on houses)?
And why are they picking on cable companies when I can't get a discount on my cell phone bill, even though I bought an unlocked, unsubsidized phone?
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But it makes pretty good sense. Suppose a family living in California or New York recently emigrated from Latin America, and none of the family is conversent in English. Why the hell should they have to pay for all of these channels that they don't understand? Why can't they just subscribe to VHUno and other Latino channels?
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Because people have been complaining about cable companies for at least a decade and a half, if not more. The Gubment's just now getting around to doing something. Give them another decade for the cell phone companies.
Things the Government Can Do (Score:2, Interesting)
Kevin Martin should resign (Score:1)
Martin should resign and the job should go to someone with more backbone.
Regulating a company like Comcast can only be a (Score:1)
In the early 80's and 90's we had basic cable companies that provided a good service for a reasonable price, $19.99 a month. In the 90's comcast bought all the local cable stations and year over year increased the price. They justified it by offering a few more channels, but many I never watch.
Today comcast charges $45 a month for basic cable and around $65 for digital. I stopped seeing the value of paying for cable at $45 a month or $540 a year. It would be one thing if it was commercial free,
A few corrections (Score:1)
As for the seemingly conflicting numbers of cable homes that are listed on our website [ncta.com], the answer lies in how you count households. One set of numbers comes from a company called SNL Kagan and another set of numbers comes from A.C. Nielsen Media Research. Total households is something between 126-127 million, but includes seasonal homes, vacations properties and so on. Kagan also has a