Major Release of Miro Aims to Compete With iTunes 201
ravrore writes "Miro 4 was released today, a major update to the popular multi-platform FOSS video player. The new version adds music support, local network stream and transfer, music purchasing, and Android syncing. Miro is positioning itself as the open iTunes for Android users. 'We believe the open media world can be just as integrated and usable as the closed, top-down, DRM'ed systems of companies like Apple. And we want to prove it,' says Nicholas Reville, Executive Director of Participatory Culture Foundation, which creates Miro."
It looks like the project still has a few rough edges, but is definitely getting there.
"Open Media" (Score:5, Insightful)
FOSS-speak: "Open media"
Translation: We've got public domain crap, idiots talking to their webcams, sucky indie bands who need to practice more and promote less, and that's about it--unless you want to pirate.
Seriously, the summary is trying to promote this as an iTunes competitor? Really? I hate Apple crap, and even *I* know that iTunes is way better than this.
Okay, you can all mod me down now for daring to criticize an open-source project. You know you want to.
music on Amazon and Itunes has no DRM (Score:3)
As of now, music on amazon and itunes is DRM free.
It won't be too hard to top the itunes interface for syncing though..
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What about all the music purchased from iTunes in the years and years prior, when it wasn't DRM free? Will Miro play that?
If people have to leave behind all their m4p and other protected format music (a substantial amount of their collection, for many), they won't switch over.
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Use iTunes itself to break that DRM, as Apple have encouraged strongly all along: burn it to audio CD. This has always been possible, ever since DRMed music was available in iTunes. You sacrifice a little if you then re-rip into a lossy format, but it is free. Alternatively you can upgrade your old purchased tracks for 20 cents (or local currency equivalent) to the higher-bitrate, non-DRM versions that are now available in the store.
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So the proposal is that all these people should spend hours (days? weeks? months?) meticulously burning their purchased music to audio CD, 10-12 at a time, then reimporting them and renaming all the tracks and such?
The general public's reaction : "F*ck that"
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Did Apple sue for alimony?
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Why rename them? iTunes supports CD-text, it's right there in the options. This option was suggested by Apple at the time you bought the music (very strongly suggested on each purchase), and is a free way to do it, if a little time consuming if you have tons of stuff - it is, however, a free and fully supported way to remove DRM from old iTunes tracks. The assertion was that "if there was no way to get out of the DRM trap with old tracks" then "people won't switch". I am simply stating that not only can you
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Because it's not their stuff. It's the RIAA's affiliate's stuff.
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Of course it is, like all DRM schemes, but it was never Apple's choice - it was a requirement of the content owners, and Apple made it as weak as they could get away with (I mean, building in a way to defeat the DRM by default and then promoting its use with every download is a pretty obvious 'we think this is stupid too, but go with it for now' move by them).
As soon as they could get rid of the DRM they did so, and offered a couple of ways out for the old tracks, one of which was the CD burn method which a
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What about all the music purchased from iTunes in the years and years prior, when it wasn't DRM free? Will Miro play that?
If people have to leave behind all their m4p and other protected format music (a substantial amount of their collection, for many), they won't switch over.
Why should we care about that?
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I'm lukewarm on iTunes for syncing, and it's music store interface is simply abysmal: weirdly modal, brutally slow and unresponsive, seemingly obvious features unimplemented or half-assed. Not at all what I've come to expect from Apple.
iTunes started somewhere else, but Apple's had a long time to make it less-bad. They've fixed a few really aggravating bugs, but it's still only meh.
Still... the fact that it download my podcasts on its own time and syncs the iPod just by plugging it in (deleting old ones,
Re:"Open Media" (Score:5, Informative)
No you're fine. Everybody basically acknowledges this, but you're skipping all the good closed media Miro will be selling too: the Miro will let you buy from the Amazon MP3 store, so there will be a good selection of DRM-free music available on the platform, too.
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Apple will let you buy from Amazon as well.
But iTunes will not let you sync to Android. Hence the summary.
Re:"Open Media" (Score:4, Informative)
Sure it will, if you use something like MarkSpace's Missing Sync:
http://www.markspace.com/products/android/missing-sync-android.html [markspace.com]
The sync API for iTunes is documented and available to anyone who wants to write something that works with it. What you can't do (and what Apple somehow turned into the bad guy for stamping on) is pretend to be an iPod by spoofing Apple's USB vendor ID so you can be super lazy and not write an interface to iTunes' own sync system.
Missing Sync isn't free, but the sync API (certainly in OS X) is open and documented so you can write your own if you want to.
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Mount as USB mass storage device and drag and drop. Much easier than iTunes.
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I don't think I do either. Thanks for agreeing with me.
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Very funny. Well played, sir.
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This is Slashdot. Strong opinions are their own justification.
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unless you want to pirate
Miro makes it quite easy to torrent music/vids right into your library...don't underestimate this angle, although it's not exactly the kind of thing Miro is going to go around announcing publicly, for obvious reasons.
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Even better is that it will accept rss feeds that contain said torrents. At least it did years ago when I used it.
Software, not store (Score:2)
They are talking about the software versus iTunes software. Not the store versus the iTunes store. This was an update to the player. The biggest point is synchronizing. They are saying, listen, we can sync very well without creating an artificial walled garden in the software. AKA - iTunes hates other music players, and is designed to only work with iP(od/hone/ad).
Of course the store sucks at this point. Google and Amazon, which have the real shots at popular stores, are working from a cloud perspect
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There's also another name for this sort of thing: Podcast.
Isn't "podcast management" supposed to be one of those things that Apple products are hyped for?
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and why the fuck is miro trying to look exactly like itunes?? they won't bring anything new to the table, just try to clone the best thing available right now. imo, vlc has got it right. i don't need all the sucky media library crap, my file manager handles searches very well and vlc supports playlists.
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FOSS-speak: "Open media"
Translation: We've got public domain crap, idiots talking to their webcams, sucky indie bands who need to practice more and promote less, and that's about it--unless you want to pirate.
Shows what you know. Almost without exception, all of the new music that I've really gotten into in the last couple of years has been CC licensed. Hell, Chuck D is putting stuff out under CC these days. I listen to podcasts twenty times more than I listen to the radio. They hooked me with free, they ke
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In theory, you'd be right. In theory. You see, in theory the big labels would hire the best bands out there, give them the best resources available so they can do the best work they can, while the indies only have lower prices to compensate for their lack of talent and resources.
However, what happens in *practice* is that the big labels hire whatever's more marketable (read: a young, attractive singer), then hire an engineer that destroys whatever semblance of music was there by making everything LOUD while
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How comes everytime some idiot comes, talks a lot of crap and ends with something like "but hey, that's just my opinion mod me down if you want to!" it gets actually moded up?
You know that sometimes they get modded down? But how would you know? They are modded down, so probably below your threshold.
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Any time someone praises iTunes, it is no doubt for the selection it offers, not the software itself. In the context of his comment, he was clearly referring to the former.
Content is king.. (Score:2)
Content is king and if they ain't got the content, then they are not really going to be able to compete
I know people seem to like to bash Apple for DRM, but who do you think is pushing for DRM? (Hint: The people that control the content).
Re:Content is king.. (Score:5, Informative)
I know people seem to like to bash Apple for DRM
And wrongly so since the music bought from iTunes hasn't had DRM in for more than 2 years now.
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Yet iTunes is still very monolithic in its support for i* devices. This post is not about the store, which I feel I have to keep pointing out. It's about the software. The quote in the summary is very misleading that way. The top down walled garden is the Appleverse, not mp3s. In other words, you don't have to buy into the Apple "experience" to get a good "experience". ;)
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Sync API is open. Nothing preventing manufacturer of Android device 'foo' from shipping a plugin for iTunes. Talk to them.
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There's DRM wrapped around everything else available from the store. Get back to me when that's not the case.
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...which would be a lot more meaningful if all Apple sold was music.
Apple still benefits greatly from DRM and being generally difficult to deal with when it comes to anything that was not purchased from Apple.
The path of least resistance is clearly marked. At the end of that path is Steve Jobs with a cash register.
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I know people seem to like to bash Apple for DRM
And wrongly so since the music bought from iTunes hasn't had DRM in for more than 2 years now.
But on everything else, DRM in spades.
Apple fans tend to use that as misdirection to hide the fact that DRM is still at the centre of Itunes and iDevices.
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Who do you think is a majority shareholder in Disney, one of the most aggressive parties pushing for more DRM and more lopsided copyright laws.
Apple are armpit deep in the content industry, they just want you to delude yourself that they are working in your interests instead of theirs.
Not going to work (Score:5, Insightful)
Don't believe me? In the electronic music community, there is a synth called Zebra 2. Its from a company run and developed entirely by one guy who never advertised it. He never pitched it as the "something for the something else alternative." He just made a great fucking synth. After a short amount of time, word got out, all of the music rags covered it, and now it tops all of the "greatest synth" lists.
You will never get anywhere making a clone. You'll always be a step behind.
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Any time any company or organization markets itself as "the [insert adjective] [insert proper noun] alternative for the [insert other proper noun]" the group is destined to failure
Absolutely. For instance, a project that billed itself as "the free UNIX alternative for the PC" could never go anywhere.
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Yeah, but at least you're behind the leader which is more than where you'd be when you wouldn't try that.
This isn't new. Linux is a Unix clone, then tried to become a Windows clone until Gnome tried to clone OS X. Miro tried to be something original and nobody cared and now Miro tries to clone iTunes for Android (which tried to clone iOS). So what?
Coming up with something original *and* being successful with that is really, really ha
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Linux might be a Unix clone, but the kernel never tried to be windows. Gnome and KDE tried that.
Android did not clone iOS at all. Not anymore than iOS cloned the smartphones that came before it.
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Rather than trying to invent a great music/video player, they are trying to invent an iTunes (or anything else) clone.
Have you ever even seen Miro? This is an absurd statement.
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Even ignoring "clones" that ultimately surpassed the original such as Unix, Linux, GCC and so, Miro is already a well-established project that's been going on for years (the project formerly known as "DemocracyPlayer" btw) and has got a sizeable userbase on PCs, this new marketing strategy is merely the result of one guy noticing that, if Miro makes for such a neat app on PCs it'd be pretty cool to have it on Android as well, and since it'd work roughly iTunes-ish they could market it as such rather than ex
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iTunes was an alternative to SoundJam, in that it was SoundJam.
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> You will never get anywhere making a clone.
There are a few examples of clone software that has done fairly well. Consider DOS, Lotus 1-2-3, Macintosh OS, Windows, Word, Sql Server, MySQL, Excel, OpenOffice, Netscape, Mozilla, Internet Explorer, Chrome, and Safari. Many of which were not just de facto clones but explicitly so.
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It's interesting that you chose those 2 examples because I would assert that their success is due to similar reasons. They both benefitted by filling a void neglected by the top competitor. In Firefox's case Microsoft had allowed IE to languish. In Android's case Apple was stuck in an exclusivity deal with AT&T and Android was something that the other networks could run against the iPhone.
WinAmp (Score:2)
While it is Windows only, it is solid, offers Android support and just ... works. If you're Apple, you're gonna be an Fanboi anyway and use iTunes. If you're on Linux, you'll use some crappy software and feel all superior about not buying DRMed Music from Apple (which doesn't even sell DRMed music any longer).
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While it is Windows only, it is solid, offers Android support and just ... works. If you're Apple, you're gonna be an Fanboi anyway and use iTunes. If you're on Linux, you'll use some crappy software.
If you've got half a brain, you'd just buy a device with MSC support and copy media over to it as it the device was a flash disk. MSC Just Works(TM) with OSX, Linux and Windows without the need for additional software.
The feeling of superiority comes from buying something that can do 10 times what an Ipod could for half the price... and that feeling is quite justified.
Really? (Score:2)
Did it change that much?
Last time I tried Miro it was such a waste of time it didn't survive more than 10 minutes on my harddisk.
windows bug fixed today (Score:2)
9 reasons Miro is not better than what I use now. (Score:2, Insightful)
1)Works with my current music library. -- So does mplayer.
2)Converts and syncs to Android -- I don't have an android.
3)Buy Music and Apps inside Miro -- I like my music and apps free thanks.
4)Download and play almost any video -- So does mplayer
5)Convert any video -- Again, mplayer
6)Share Your Media on your Network -- This is what Samba is for.
7)Open-source - don't lock yourself in! -- Excellent point, but not superior to what I use now.
8)Ultra-fast torrent downloading -- Do one thing and do it well. Ca
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3)Buy Music and Apps inside Miro -- I like my music and apps free thanks.
Eh? I imagine there is some freely-released music out there, but by and large most artists are trying to put food on the table. Or did you mean free-as-in-screw-the-artist?
As for Miro itself, yeah, no thanks. First, the installer tries to put some Yahoo crapware on your system, which pretty much makes the app untrustworthy as far as I'm concerned. But it also tries to emulate the iTunes UI to a fault, while not really offering anything better in terms of finding/playing/arranging music.
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I'd like to know if it syncs to normal mp3 players. I really used to like Miro, but the lack of that feature pushed me to Gpodder (which I also like, but lacks some whizbang stuff I had become used to with Miro, like a way better catalog).
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What pocket-size music playing device do you have instead, and what software do you currently use to sync to that?
I'm not the person you're responding to, but I decided to answer. I have a PSP (and an old V3xx Razr), and I use either the terminal or nautilus. Being of an older generation I think in terms of Albums, not singles.
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> Being of an older generation I think in terms of Albums, not singles.
I find that aspect of iTunes really quite annoying.
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I've never encountered any problems with handling Albums in iTunes. Of course if you've got shoddy meta-data you'll have problems but then GIGO isn't an iTunes issue.
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> What pocket-size music playing device do you have instead,
An Android tablet.
> and what software do you currently use to sync to that?
For automated syncing: rsync.
For non-automated syncing: Nautilus.
There's usually no good reason to bother with special proprietary tools just to move files around.
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I have a Sansa Fuze running Rockbox. I 'sync' to it using cp. It's full of taper friendly music.
lucene sqlite (Score:2)
I Use Miro (Score:4, Interesting)
I've had it on my computer for a couple years now. It had codecs for a bunch of videos I had on my system from a LONG time ago. I like it. I noticed a new update popped up when I watched a video on it yesterday. I always have a couple redundant systems on my computer so if one of my old files doesn't work I can test it on something else. Miro is as good as anything else for watching movies on, and having options besides the big dominating one is always a good thing.
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The power behind Apple (Score:5, Interesting)
Apple had the power to leverage (iPod sales, etc) to convince the large record companies to make their music available to purchase through the iTunes store.
Does an open source venture such as Miro have that sort of power?
(And do the people at Miro realize that iTunes tracks have been DRM free for over 2 years now?)
why miro is FAIL (Score:2)
below is my reply to the "9 Reasons why Miro is better than what you have now" on their website:
1."Works with your current music library"
really?? well, my current media player also works with my current music library. how is miro better?
2."Converts and syncs to Android"
i just pop out my x10 mini's 16gb microsd card and then its all just drag-n-drop. btw, drag-n-drop is better when you have just 16gb space and your music library is huge.
3. "Buy Music and Apps inside Miro
The Amazon MP3 store is built-in to Mi
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Boy, there's a lot of Miro haters on Slashdot today. I used Miro as a television interface a while back, but didn't look at it recently until I saw this story on Slashdot. If Miro will enable my Mac to sync to my Archos tablet, then I'll definitely use it instead of iTunes, which won't do that. I'll be one step closer to shedding Apple, which would be nice. I don't see why everyone is so down on Miro, and I can't figure out when hating on open source became cool at Slashdot. If it does all the things you me
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I agree. I feel that just because it is open source we are expected to praise it. The truth is that open source is not the solution to everything.
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I agree. I feel that just because it is open source we are expected to praise it.
It wasn't that long ago around here that would have been true. But the OSS zealotry seems to have died down to more practical levels these days. I don't miss the 'but does it support OGG?" +5s that flew around here.
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That's probably because everything supports OGG now. Because of us zealots. We won. Again. Enjoy your practicality, but remember who paid for it.
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Enjoy your practicality, but remember who paid for it.
Heh. Your proud of making the majority's life harder?
Sorry man, I'm just not getting it.
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Explain to me how OGG support makes the majority's life harder. In small words.
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No mp3.
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Except it doesn't. Other than purely Free Linux apps and the odd game engine or two, pretty much everything that supports OGGs supports MP3, and given its licensing costs if OGG weren't there chances are they still wouldn't support MP3s.
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Right, now go up a couple of posts and see what sparked this conversation.
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Nope, nothing in any of the parents showing how Ogg support implies no MP3 support. The conversation went pretty much like this: "there hasn't been many people asking Ogg support" -> "because most stuff already does" -> "which sucks for the rest of us" -> "explain why" -> "no mp3 support" -> me WTFing.
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Haha you posted that right as I was posting an apology for being wrong. :D
If you're curious, you can go up to the beginning of this convo and see where it branched off, hopefully you'll see why I got confused. (And you'll still see I was being an ass.)
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You know what, I owe you an apology. I got confused about which branch of this conversation I was involved with, and ... well you're the second person I'm apologizing to because I was being obnoxious.
I'm sorry man, I thought this was a continuation of the conversation I was having with somebody else about a Linux distro supporting OGG but not MP3s.
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lol. I replied to you above before I got this far down. Apology accepted, of course. No wonder we were both so damn confused at what the other was saying :)
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What? That doesn't make any sense at all. Nobody took your mp3s away. I certainly didn't.
Try again. Maybe use a few more small words this time.
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You know what, I owe you an apology. Another reply to my comment was saying that a distro of Linux he installed didn't support MP3s, but did support Ogg. I asked him about that and afterwards I got your comment, but didn't realize that you weren't replying to THAT comment, but my original one. So I thought you were saying "we got OGG support when we weren't getting MP3" support.
This misunderstanding (and my subsequent snidey'ness) is entirely my fault and I'm sorry.
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Is it common for a Linux distro to not have MP3 support by default?
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Which distro? Even in the distros that insist on "free software only" like Fedora, there's usually a third party repository that lets you easily install mp3 support and whatnot.
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Still trying to figure out why it is acceptable for an FOSS product that aims to compete with iTunes to have "a few rough edges".
Because iTunes is a fucking abomination. It's nothing but rough edges. If someone else's product has only "a few," it is already winning.
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Honesty. Simply put, both Miro and iTunes have some glaring design issues, but Miro acknowledges them while iTunes merely says "they're not bugs, they're features, or would be if you were using OSX you dirty heathen".
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I see even they are on the "Democracy is over" bandwagon...
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So about 0.03% of the population huh.
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We don't give a fuck about that. We'll keep making better shit. That's its own reward. Inevitable world domination is just gravy.
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Don't we all know that 4.0 is the crashing-and-burning version, and that we should wait at least until 4.2?