Disney's Titling Problem With Its Star Wars Movies 279
An anonymous reader writes "When George Lucas produced his Star Wars movies, he subtitled them 'Episode I,' 'Episode IV' etc. But that style will become inappropriate and confusing with Disney producing a new Star Wars movie each year, observes blogger Christopher Knight: 'Those were individual chapters of one story in an epic fantasy setting. And it suffices for that one multi-generational epic on film. Except now, there is the intent to produce several stories in that same setting. And they aren't necessarily going to pertain to the tale of the Skywalker family from Anakin to Luke to whoever it will be in the next trilogy.' Knight's solution is to retroactively amend the titles of Episodes I through IX to reflect it being the Skywalkers' saga, just as Lucas retroactively subtitled the first movie to be Episode IV."
Peh. (Score:5, Insightful)
They should just name them after the action figure each one is made to sell.
Re: Peh. (Score:4, Funny)
You misspelled. "Pez".
Re:Peh. (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Peh. (Score:5, Funny)
Well better than Darth mouse! [youtube.com]
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Re:Peh. (Score:5, Funny)
Meesa thinking a movie about da Binks family is mooie mooie good. Nowsa that I'm a traitorous bastard who sold da Jedi and da Republic up da river, it could be called Revenge of da Binks!
Re:Peh. (Score:4, Interesting)
Jar Jar grows up to be Jabba the hut. Radioactive pizza/time machine/black hole/kessel run if need be for story line.
Re:Peh. (Score:5, Interesting)
Why not just drop the Episode nonsense from the movies.
It isn't like anything you will do will stop a bunch of Raving Sci-Fi lunatics from complaining about it anyways. Even though they complain about it they are going to see it anyways.
That said, the biggest problem with Ep I-III, wasn't the special effects or Jar-Jar, but the fact we never really liked Anakin Skywalker. Yes we knew he will go to the darkside, but I wanted a character who I didn't want to go to the Dark Side, and the transition of Jedi Knight to Sith Lord should have been a tragic one. Not
"Oh you are the Sith Master!"
"Yea, wanna join the Dark Side, I'll give you a cool name"
"Sure, sounds good, let me throw Samuel L. Jackson out the window"
"Good, your name is now Darth Vader"
"Sweet!"
Re:Peh. (Score:4, Interesting)
Episode I should have presented Anakin as a likeable, young adult and his entire past as a slave on Tatooine summed up as a reflective moment in a couple of minutes. Obi-Wan should have already been a Jedi Master, Anakin his Padawan, Padme a fellow Padawan and Palpatine a member of the Jedi high council when viewers are first introduced to them. That would have allowed a lot more time to show Obi-Wan, Anakin and Padme's relationship build and become something that viewers would begin to develop an attachment to. Obi-Wan and Anakin get into some scrapes together, while Padme and Anakin have a realistically portrayed chemistry immediately, culminating in them hooking up at the end of the movie. Palpatine, in his own arrogance and madness, commissions the creation of a secret clone army to seize power.
Episode II should have furthered Obi-Wan, Anakin and Padme's development while also, ever so subtly, hinting at Anakin's temptation towards the dark side as he learns more about his own extraordinary abilities. Luke and Leia are born, creating an even stronger bond between Anakin and Padme. Palpatine unleashes his clone army and those loyal to him upon the galaxy, killing off most of the Jedi and getting his forces entrenched. At the end of the movie, Obi-Wan and Anakin confront Palpatine, but are handily defeated. Anakin gets captured but Obi-Wan escapes. This fuels Anakin's desire to become more powerful as quickly as possible, while giving him a twisted respect for Palpatine and a misplaced disrespect for his own master, Obi-Wan. Palpatine uses his power to begin warping Anakin's mind, construction of the Death Star commences and the Empire is formed.
Episode III should begin a number of years later, perhaps five years. Led by Yoda, the last remaining Jedi and newly formed Rebellion wages a guerilla war upon the Empire. Obi-Wan has spent most of his time searching for Anakin, but is greatly hindered by the current state of the galaxy. In the meanwhile, Anakin tracks down Padme and she contacts Obi-Wan to tell him the news. Anakin and Padme spend the night together, but after years of Sith indoctrination and training, he attempts to take her and the children away in order to present them to Palpatine. When Padme resists Anakin's seduction, he attempts to just take the kids, forcing Padme to attack him. Out of pure reflex, Anakin kills Padme. Obi-Wan shows up to find Anakin still there, distraught over what he's done. When Obi-Wan tries to appeal to the good still in Anakin, the two get into a heated argument over Anakin's perception of Obi-Wan and the Jedi being weak next to the power of the dark side. They battle and Obi-Wan ends up severely wounding Anakin. Obi-Wan takes the children and Anakin off-planet to the hidden Rebel based where Yoda is currently located. Upon arrival, Anakin is placed under medical care. Unknown to them all, Palpatine has been tracking Anakin through the force and an entire fleet of Star Destroyers shows up, bombarding the whole planet. The Rebels are forced to flee and everyone gets separated. Luke ends up on a transport with Obi-Wan, who takes him to be cared for by a couple on Tatooine. Leia ends up on a transport with Bail Organa. Anakin ends up on a transport that is captured by the Empire. The Rebel planet is wiped of all life. Yoda, filled with guilt and feeling responsible for what happened, becomes a recluse on Dagobah. Under Palpatine's order, Anakin is rebuilt into the Darth Vader we all know. Palpatine cackles evilly.
Just rename everything (Score:5, Funny)
Retroactively? (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Retroactively? (Score:5, Informative)
Didn't the original scrolling intro always say "episode 4"?
Not in the original showing of the film. The "Episode IV" part was added later when the film's popularity made it viable for a sequel. OR something like that.
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Didn't the original scrolling intro always say "episode 4"?
It did when I saw the original theatrical release on opening day in1978. Seeing that go by, I thought they were showing a serial out of order by mistake.
Re:Retroactively? (Score:5, Informative)
Except that Star Wars premiered in 1977. And it did not say "Episode 4" when it did. I was there, and it didn't. It did get a 1978 re-release, but "Episode IV" was not placed into the title crawl until the 1981 re-release (after The Empire Strikes Back proclaimed itself "Episode V" in its original 1980 release).
Re: Retroactively? (Score:5, Informative)
Citation please! I clearly remember "Episode IV" appearing in the scrolling intro to the original, 1977 release and until someone can give me non-anecdotal evidence to the contrary I am sticking with what I know I saw,
I can't tell if you are just extremely arrogant, or just clueless as to just how incredibly susceptible the human brain is to false memories. I don't even trust all of my own memories, let alone yours.
Re: Retroactively? (Score:4, Funny)
You only believe you did. Memory is fluid, and yours has changed. The "Episode IV" was NOT there at the premiere. In 1977, they hadn't even begun planning a sequel, much less the idea of a "trilogy of trilogies." It was there in the 1981 re-release.
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It's amazing how bad human memory is. Unless you had a time machine, that never happened.
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It did when I saw the original theatrical release on opening day in1978
Karma: Geek Cred +1
Re:Retroactively? (Score:5, Informative)
More like a reason to strip his geek card. Not only was he off by a year (opening day was May 25, 1977), but he's outright wrong or misremembering the episode number being there. They didn't add "Episode IV: A New Hope" until Empire Strikes Back came out a few years later (it wasn't even there for the 1978 re-release, which is what he may be thinking of). The original film, when first released, was simply titled "Star Wars" and nothing else. No episode numbers, no "A New Hope", no nuthin'.
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Then you didn't see it in the cinemas on opening day in 1978. Or you're not remembering the opening day screening.
Or he doesn't live in the US, like 96% of the people on the planet.
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I saw it in the UK the first time it came out, and it definitely said Episode IV. I remember trying to find the first names of the first 3 episodes in the library.
was the uk on the original release lineup?
Re:Retroactively? (Score:4, Funny)
In those days the delay between US and UK releases was huge. Sailing ships were at the mercy of the weather, steamships were in their infancy and the only relaible thing about them was that they were unreliable. Then there was the redone dialog (adding "please" and "thank you" all over) and conversion for right-handed projectors.
And don't get me started about Australia. They have to reshoot the whole movie in a mirror because the spools turn the other way. In fact they still haven't got round to doing "Cocktail", which many say is a mercy.
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Didn't the original scrolling intro always say "episode 4"?
Nope [wikia.com], that came later.
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The very original release just read Star Wars, from what I've seen, with the "Episode 4" added later
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It did. The idea as Lucas originally described it in his draft (back when it was called "Journal of the Whills") was that it was like picking a book off the shelf and finding it was the fourth volume of a history series. (While he said that later, it seems more likely that it was actually more like coming into a Buck Rogers serial halfway through.) Perhaps the original poster is referring to the way it was subtitled retroactively _on_posters_. That is, until Episode I came out, it was just "Star Wars", with
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Why not change the title considering that he keeps changing the movie itself?
Re:Retroactively? (Score:5, Interesting)
Why change anything?
We still reference dates with BC/AD, what wrong with negative Episode numbers, and even decimal versions if they decide to squeeze something between two others?
Or betting yet, just let it end, and use their imagination to come up with something totally new and different rather than changing one digit in the title and slapping a brand new copyright date on the same old movie.
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Re:Retroactively? (Score:5, Interesting)
They just make up an original title and fit it into the timeline without a need for serial numbers.
To me there seems no good reason to deviate; release episodes VII, VIII and IX, then don't use episode numbers for the rest of the movies.
Considering Disney plans to release a new one every year it's not like people are going to care much for any release beyond the "planned" third trilogy.
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I guess it all depends on which version of reality Lucas is peddling at any given time. One day it was three trilogies, then two, now it's nine trilogies plus unrelated add-on movies. Why, by the time Disney is done, the Christmas Special will return its rightful canon place and we'll have full length Wookie porn flicks; "Revenge of Chewbacca's 36 Inch Dong!"
Re:Retroactively? (Score:4, Insightful)
The studio did say 9 very early on, after the initial release. However based on how they scripted things on the fly in the next two films, even changing major story lines, I seriously doubt Lucas had things planned out beyond a rough idea. The first movie is clearly a standalone one, and roughly follow the thematics parts of The hidden Fortress instead of being open ended.
Re:Retroactively? (Score:5, Funny)
No, it did not. You are misremembering it because it was changed and has been seen in that form so many times since.
The Episode IV moniker was added to the film later.
He's obviously confused or deranged. Next he'll be claiming something outlandish, like "Han shot first" or something equally absurd.
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IIRC the "Episode IV" line was added in 1981 for the Laserdisc and cinematic re-release. It definitely wasn't there in the '70s.
How about this (Score:5, Insightful)
How about this? Stop making stupid Star Wars movies and come up with a new idea.
Re:How about this (Score:5, Informative)
Disney? Come up with a new idea? Hahaha, oh wow, are you kidding? They've finished sucking classical childrens stories dry, and now they've moved on to modern culture, Disney hasn't had a single original idea since the ink dried on Steam Boat Willy.
Re:How about this (Score:4, Funny)
Disney? Come up with a new idea? Hahaha, oh wow, are you kidding? They've finished sucking classical childrens stories dry, and now they've moved on to modern culture, Disney hasn't had a single original idea since the ink dried on Steam Boat Willy.
What are you talking about? Disney has re-innovated Star Wars quite well [youtube.com]. Just look at the new characters introduced in episode 7?
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Disney was a cool, innovative entertainment company while Walt was alive. He was the Pixar of the mid 20th century. It was long after his death that Disney turned into the "milk parents company." Disney still churns out the occasional hit like The Lion King, but most of their releases are shamelessly accountant-driven.
Re:How about this (Score:5, Insightful)
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> The Lion King was substantially ripped off too, from Kimba the White Lion.
Twenty years from now, kids will watch the remake of the Lion King. During the climax scene, he'll be running away, and right as he's starting to get tired, he'll hear a familiar voice booming from the sky:
"Simba! Use the Horse! THE HORSE... USE THE HORSE!"
At that moment, the lion chasing him will start to laugh so hard, he won't be able to run. In fact, while skidding to a halt, a pebble will get thrown up into the air, and land
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^^^ argh. Terrible typo I missed because I was laughing so hard while I typed this. The lion CHASING him chokes to death on the pebble, and Simba discovers that Leia the Lioness is his sister.
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So, do you dismiss Disney for creating the first color animated feature and the first movie length animated feature because it was based on an old fairy tale? Is every book adapted to film a "rip off"?
Re:How about this (Score:4, Informative)
Also Hamlet and Macbeth.
Re:How about this (Score:4, Insightful)
Disney? Come up with a new idea? Hahaha, oh wow, are you kidding? They've finished sucking classical childrens stories dry, and now they've moved on to modern culture, Disney hasn't had a single original idea since the ink dried on Steam Boat Willy.
This.
Why do you think Disney supports copyright extensions/abuses with such reckless abandon?
Because they dont want people doing to Disney what Disney did to Hans Christian Anderson.
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Disney hasn't had a single original idea since the ink dried on Steam Boat Willy.
Perhaps not even then... [wikipedia.org]
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Disney? Come up with a new idea? Hahaha, oh wow, are you kidding? They've finished sucking classical childrens stories dry, and now they've moved on to modern culture, Disney hasn't had a single original idea since the ink dried on Steam Boat Willy.
Actually, Steamboat Willy was a cartoon parody of a Buster Keaton film.
Re:How about this (Score:5, Informative)
Disney hasn't had a single original idea since the ink dried on Steam Boat Willy.
Are you implying that Steamboat Willy was original? Nope! It was a parody of Buster Keaton's Steamboat Bill Jr.
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Disney paid a lot of dollaro for the rights to Star Wars. They will milk it every nickel they can. And you'll buy it! Do you hear me, you'll buy it!
Re:How about this (Score:5, Insightful)
come up with a new ide
Quit living in the past. Modern film making is about certainties. If you try to come up with a new idea, what if it didn't work?
The studios need to know precisely what's going to happen before they even try. That's why you stick with the same formula over and over again and the only new content is derived from best selling works. That way you know what's going to fail and what's going to succeed.
Risk is not an option.
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How about this? Stop making stupid Star Wars movies and come up with a new idea.
I don't necessarily agree, Star Wars has a very rich universe which gives a new movie the advantage of ditching some exposition and working in a universe the viewer has an emotional connection with.
Of course that only works if they recapture the vision and adventure of the original trilogy, I think it's possible (particularly if you pull in some of the old cast) but if they can't make it work it's probably better to leave it alone.
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Of course that only works if they recapture the vision and adventure of the original trilogy,....
...and I could go back to being 10 years old when I first saw the movie and thought it kicked ass.
Watching the original Star Wars now is boring. It really isn't that good of a movie. The RiffTrax version helps though.
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How about this? Stop making stupid Star Wars movies and come up with a new idea.
There are three durable Sci Fi franchises and geek culture would be lost without them: Dr Who, Star Trek and Star Wars.
If the geek wants to know why HBO's audience gets Crown of Thorns and CN's DreamWorks: Dragons, he might want to look at his own fandoms --- not exactly a hotbed of original ideas.
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There are three durable Sci Fi franchises and geek culture would be lost without them: Dr Who, Star Trek and Star Wars.
Is Star Wars even science fiction? Lucas himself called it a "space fantasy". One might say it often feels closer to Lord of the Rings than to Star Trek.
Just use the A.D. notation . . . (Score:5, Funny)
. . . you know, like A.D., as in, "Anno Disneyi" . . . ?
. . . and BCE . . . "Before Crap Era" . . .
Re:Just use the A.D. notation . . . (Score:5, Insightful)
. . . you know, like A.D., as in, "Anno Disneyi" . . . ?
. . . and BCE . . . "Before Crap Era" . . .
BCE == Before Copyrights were Eternal.
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. . . you know, like A.D., as in, "Anno Disneyi" . . . ?
. . . and BCE . . . "Before Crap Era" . . .
what's the lost perioid in the middle? jarjar years? a decade at zero?
Reboot! (Score:2)
Star Wars The Next Generation
Star Wars The Dark Night
Star Wars 2: Electric Boogaloo
Or my favorite, how about just:
Star Wars
but in an alternate universe. Hey it worked for Star Trek!
Star Wars II: The Search for More Money (Score:2)
Or why not "Star Wars That Sucks" ?
Re:Star Wars II: The Search for More Money (Score:5, Funny)
Or why not "Star Wars That Sucks" ?
Not nearly specific enough
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A mouse once bit my sister...
(Oh, how I wish Slashdot had proper special character support!)
Old style serials? (Score:2)
So, we're to understand that now that they're going to produce actual episodic content, which is more in the style of old serials that the original were intended to homage, they're going to drop the episodic titling for something else?
I don't get it... (Score:4, Insightful)
What's the problem? There is almost 40 YEARS of novels and they never seem to have any trouble.
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And they can always recycle the "Christmas Special." Or the cartoons. [starwars.com]
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There can't be that many years. Because, counting forward from the...D'oh!
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Yep, there's nothing like contemplating Star Wars' release date to make you feel old. Yes, I remember watching it when it came out--multiple times, in theaters, which I don't think I ever did with any other movie.
I recently embraced the New Imperialism (Score:5, Funny)
So in my view the Rebel Alliance are not freedom fighters, but terrorists. Leave it to Disney to make movies celebrating horrific, terrorist acts against the forces of the democratically elected galactic government. It's sickening.
Re:I recently embraced the New Imperialism (Score:4, Funny)
They destroyed the planetary mineral extractor! All aboard were killed! Hundreds of thousands of civilian contractors perished in the explosion!
These terrorists must be STOPPED!
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Don't forget about the Endor Holocaust [theforce.net]
Re:I recently embraced the New Imperialism (Score:5, Funny)
Actually they could do some really nice movies showing the story from the other side. The legitimate government of the galaxy battling an unholy alliance of slavers, smugglers, and terrorists being manipulated by a secretive theocracy.
How many contractors died on death-star 2? The terrorist alliance tricked neolithic "ewoks" into a suicidal assault on an imperial base, just as a distraction. (OK, personally I don't mind ridding the universe of Ewoks, but it wasn't nice).
Was there even an attempt at a recall election for the chancellor? No, they went immediately to assassination because they found out that he belonged to a rival religious group.
All I really want though is 2 hours of the opening battle from episode 3......
Re:I recently embraced the New Imperialism (Score:5, Insightful)
How many contractors died on death-star 2?
All the ones that didn't care Alderaan had been blown up by the first one.
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I'm not saying the Moff Tarken didn't exceed his authority.....
I'm sure there would have been a full investigation and a clarification of the rules of engagement.
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You're not alone...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kN9LdTkR85Q [youtube.com]
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Send in Seal Team Six to wipe out those godless rebels.
Re:I recently embraced the New Imperialism (Score:5, Funny)
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Then when Death Star finally approached the system, a rebel fleet engages its escorts...
Surely a sign of seditious hotspot, and a member of the Axis of Terror that needed quelling. Alderaan may indeed have
Who on earth cares? (Score:2)
What else is there really to say?
Are there even any star wars fans who care all that much how disney resolves this apparently complicated and difficult conundrum?
Will Lucas ever be satisfied? (Score:2)
Do it 'til you're satisfied,
Whatever it is, do it,
Do it 'til you're satisfied.
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If you don't like it, make your own (Score:2)
Star Wars: The Skywalker Saga: Episode IV: Con Carne y Salsa Verde
Spaceballs: The Search for More Money (Score:2)
Maybe we can have that Spaceballs sequel, too?
Oh, wait. That's essentially what this is.
Of course, there's an outside chance it won't suck horribly.
How did they name those 2 Ewok movies? (Score:4)
Why should this be any different?
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Oh god I hope it's very different.
No longer matters (Score:2)
Truth in advertising (Score:5, Funny)
They could just name the last six movies, "The.Star.Wars.Saga.dvdrip.engsubs.aXX0" and I'm not sure anyone would notice.
Re:Truth in advertising (Score:4, Funny)
Oh I hope Disney gets sued by aXX0 for trademark infringement.
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You mean that's not the official title?!
I read that as "tilting" (Score:2)
And I thought "Tilting? Are they finally realizing that Star Tours doesn't really simulate motion?"
I've got it! (Score:4, Informative)
I've got the PERFECT name for the next Disney-produced Star Wars film:
Spaceballs 2: The Search for More Money
You're welcome.
I'll go see them, but will be thinking ... (Score:2)
The secret title of every one of the new movies will be:
Star Wars: Episode ? Now give me your money, fucktard!
It did say Episode IV originally! (Score:2)
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No, it was originally just Star Wars, until it was re-released in '81. Lucas has never had a problem retconning his stuff.
Makes no sense (Score:3)
Knight's solution is to retroactively amend the titles of Episodes I through IX to reflect it being the Skywalkers' saga
To what?
Episode I: Anakin Begins
Episode II: Anakin In Love
Episode III: Anakin Goes Bananas
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Star Wars 2.5?
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The one thing I'm reasonably certain about is that whatever Lucas had approved for the expanded universe will be thrown out the door. Disney is out to make a lot of money, and it will have absolutely no interest in is optioning Zahn or any other expanded universe author.
Besides, most of the Expanded Universe stuff I've read (admittedly only a splattering here and there), is just gawdawful shit.
On second thought, considering how the standards for the prequel trilogy went down the shitter and Disney's involve
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As I understand it, Lucas always intended for there to be a sequel to Star Wars, but the investors made him go through the motions of pretending Star Wars could stand on its own. The problem wasn't that they didn't think it would be popular, but rather that it wouldn't be popular enough to justify the unholy production cost of a sequel made to the same standards. They wanted to make sure that if it merely did "OK", they could keep wringing cash out of it for a few more years in second-run and international
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Only after releasing it from the Disney Vault for a limited period release - be sure not to miss out - call 1-800-DISNEY now for our special collectors edition edition.
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News for nerds, stuff that mattered a long time ago.