1950s Toy That Included Actual Uranium Ore Goes On Display At Museum 286
hypnosec writes: The Gilbert Atomic Energy Lab — dubbed the world's most dangerous toy — has gone on display at the Ulster Museum in Northern Ireland. The toy earned the title because it includes four types of uranium ore, three sources of radiation, and a Geiger counter that enables parents to measure just how contaminated their child have become. The Gilbert Atomic Energy Lab was only available between 1951 and 1952 and was the most elaborate atomic energy educational kit ever produced. The toy was one of the most costly toys of the time, retailing at $50 — equivalent to around $400 today.
Perhaps it wouldn’t pass today’s ... (Score:3)
Perhaps? So, it might actually not be that big a deal.
Re:Perhaps it wouldn’t pass today’s .. (Score:5, Informative)
Every time I see a reference to this thing as being the most dangerous toy a lot of people speculate that it would be impossible to get today with today's safety and litigious oriented economy... except that is pretty wrong. When I was a kid in the 90s, I was able to get radioactive sources and uranium for use in a cloud chamber I built. Those things are still available today as I just purchased some sources a year ago for an educational display (price went up, would not be affordable to a middle school student now though, but maybe a determined high school student with a job).
Everything in that kit is available today, just maybe not all packaged together in the same combination. And a lot of it is still sold for educational purposes.
Re:Perhaps it wouldn’t pass today’s .. (Score:5, Informative)
You don't have to go far - just take the americium for a smoke detector and you've got a radiation source.
Or you can buy it from the US Atomic Energy Commission for $1500 per gram. Or you can order (really) small amounts online, exempt from USNRC and State licensing. They produce sufficient count-rate to check survey meters or conduct most nuclear science experiments in normal lab periods using standard Geiger Mueller counters or scintillation detectors, yet low enough so as not to present any radiation hazard.
Or you can order directly from the government [isotopes.gov]. Now that I've done all those searches for "radioisotopes for sale" I'm probably on a few watch lists :-)
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NOTE: While it's not VERY radioactive is still IS radioactive. Don't plan a long camping trip there, or decide carr
Re:Perhaps it wouldn’t pass today’s .. (Score:5, Informative)
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Since natural uranium has a half life measured in billions of years, the only way it could kill you in five minutes is if a significantly large chunk of it fell on your head from a great height....
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I'd imagine more harmful to ingest/inhale uranium ore... in addition to radioactivity, uranium is also a heavy metal like lead. (in both senses of the term "heavy metal".)
However most ore is quite weak, with 1% being pretty decent... I think it's economical to mine it as low as 0.1%. A few mines in Canada are near 20%, though (which I suppose is related to Canada being the biggest producer... 1/5th the ore is end product, instead of 1/1000th!). Ore will often have lead and such in it as well (decay products
Re:Perhaps it wouldn’t pass today’s .. (Score:5, Informative)
A few kilos of uranium would be no worse than sleeping over a pile of bananas.
A kilo of pure U238 would still be about 12 MBq of activity, while a banana is about 15 Bq. So to get equivalent activity, you would need nearly a million bananas, or at ~120 g per banana, almost 100 metric tons of bananas. If assuming they were about the density of water (an overestimate), that is larger than the volume of a 40 ft shipping container, which to most people is a bit more than "a pile of bananas."
And that is a conservative estimate, as you wouldn't have a pure block of U238 very long. U238 decays to Th234 which has a 24 day half-life, then Pa234m with ~1 minute half-life, then Pa234 with a ~7 hr half-life, before finally getting another long lived isotope, U234. While U238 decays by alpha decay, the rest of the steps are almost are beta decays (some at almost twice the energy of K40's beta decay). Plus beta and alpha decays produce a bunch of lower energy gamma rays too, as they don't always decay into the ground state of a nucleus.
So one kilo of U238 that has reached a relative steady state decay into U234 will have a total activity of ~50 MBq, now up to several shipping containers worth of bananas to get equivalent activity. If you wanted an equivalent amount of energy released, you would need ~3.5 times as the 100 metric ton quote above, so now up to 350 metric tons of bananas.
U235 at least decays into a long lived isotope after two steps, and the intermediate product is only a low energy beta decay, so despite having six times quicker direct decay, it is closer to about twice as active and has much, much less non-alpha energy than U238.
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From wikipedia:
"The major natural source of radioactivity in plant tissue is potassium: 0.0117% of the naturally-occurring potassium is the unstable isotope potassium-40 (40K). This isotope decays with a half-life of about 1.25 billion years (4×1016 seconds), and therefore the radioactivity of natural potassium is about 31 Bq/g – meaning that, in one gram of the element, about 31 atoms will decay every second.[2][3] Plants naturally contain other radioactive isotopes, such as carbon-14 (14C), but
Re:Perhaps it wouldn’t pass today’s .. (Score:4, Informative)
Raw uranium ores are a lot more radioactive than pure uranium oxides like yellowcake (U3O8) because of all the shorter-lived isotopes that have built up in the ore bodies from a billion years or so of decays of U-235 (700 million years) and U-238 (over 4 billion years). The other thing is that solid lumps of uranium are a good shield against radiation and the alpha particles resulting from decay events a millimetre or two under the surface are unlikely to escape the lump of metal and be dangerous.
Re:Perhaps it wouldn’t pass today’s .. (Score:5, Interesting)
Dozens of places in Colorado have the same kind of rock. Gold Hill or Jamestown, both just west of Boulder have hot spots from gold / tungsten / uranium mines that will kick a Geiger counter on moderate sensitivity. Still not very dangerous unless you fall head first on the rock, but fun to show the tourists.
Re:Perhaps it wouldn’t pass today’s .. (Score:4, Funny)
I guess unless you like having tumors.
At first I didn't like the idea of having tumors, but it's growing on me.
Re:Perhaps it wouldn’t pass today’s .. (Score:4, Insightful)
You don't have to go far - just take the americium for a smoke detector and you've got a radiation source.
4.47 billion years. No one rational is afraid of it's radioactivity - it's entirely scare-mongering. This is why no one cares about the uranium in granite countertops. Especially the scare-mongering over depleted uranium being somehow seen as more toxic than lead is entirely political theater ungrounded in any science.
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Once again, slashcode blows goats. Instead of Beta, how about we get the ability to edit posts?
You don't have to go far - just take the americium for a smoke detector and you've got a radiation source.
The most stable isotope of americium (243) has a half-life of 7370 years, so barely radioactive (not sure what they use in smoke detectors, but even 242 has a half-life of 141 years and thus isn't exactly hot.
Uranium 238, which is the vast majority of natural uranium (and basically all of "depleted" uranium) has a half-life of 4.47 billion years. No one rational is afraid of it's radioactivity - it's entirely sc
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Especially the scare-mongering over depleted uranium being somehow seen as more toxic than lead is entirely political theater ungrounded in any science.
Not all heavy metal poisoning is the same.
Re:Perhaps it wouldn’t pass today’s .. (Score:4, Interesting)
New York State Health Department research scientist Michael Kitto, PhD, says only a small fraction of the granite samples he has tested have emitted radon at levels that were over those considered safe.
But he added that a few of his samples showed levels that were high enough to alarm him.
“I wouldn’t have them in my house,” Kitto tells WebMD.
Rice University physics professor William Llope, PhD, found potentially dangerous levels of radiation in some tested samples of granite used in countertops.
. Not all granite is the same.
Re:Perhaps it wouldn’t pass today’s .. (Score:4, Interesting)
I was going to say something similar. Radon is nasty stuff, ask people living in parts of Michigan where they need to have mandatory venting in houses for it. There's even a few places here in Ontario where radon venting is mandatory in your house, most of the southern part of the province has 50-800m of limestone over the bedrock and that's not enough to prevent seepage.
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Yeah, sure, "Radiation!!!" is scary; but low level sources are pretty tepid unless you do your best to consume them(and sometimes even then) and 'uranium ore' can(depending on source and quality) be about as geiger-counter-clicking as a nice, safe, granite building. It's trivially apparent that any toy that constituted a decent choking hazard was orders of magnitude more hazardous.
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Re:Perhaps it wouldn’t pass today’s .. (Score:4, Informative)
According to this article [sfgate.com] lawn darts killed 4 people (3 of them children) and injured 6700 before they were banned. The article ranks them as the most dangerous toy.
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ahh...back in the day when "get off my lawn" could be backed up with an aerial barrage.
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The fact that it is even called 'the most dangerous toy' is evidence that some people need a serious beating.
No, what they deserve is for you & I to demonstrate to them the dangers of law darts ;-)
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Mindless celebration of risk as some sort of virt
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You can get those materials, just not for a toy intended for unsupervised children. You can get many dangerous things sold for educational purposes, if you go through educational catalogs (ie, most chemistry labs for high school use have many things you wouldn't want a kid to buy at the local now-defunct Radio Shack).
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"Perhaps it wouldn’t pass today’s health and safety standards..."
Ironically, the "dangerous" toys of the nuclear age have been replaced with the "dangerous" toys of the electronic age.
Physical damage vs. mental/psychological. Pick your poison. In the overall scheme of things, we've probably done far more damage to ourselves with the latter.
Boy, it sure is a good thing that someone is always thinking of the children.
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I would really love a list of toys that cause mental/psychological damage.
Off the top of my head...
Hinton's Cubes
Lament Configuration
My First Waterboard Funtime set.
Am I missing any?
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I would really love a list of toys that cause mental/psychological damage.
Off the top of my head...
Hinton's Cubes
Lament Configuration
My First Waterboard Funtime set.
Am I missing any?
How about Top Ten Unsafe Toys for Christmas From David Letterman and The Late Show:
10. Junior Electrician Outlet Panel
9. Hasbro’s Slippery Steps
8. Black & Decker Silly Driller
7. Roof Hanger Paratrooper Outfit
6. Remco’s Pocket Hive
5. Traffic Tag
4. Will It Burn? From Parker Brothers
3. Chimney Explorer
2. My First Ferret Farm
1. Ooh – You’re Blue!, the Hold-Your-Breath Game
yeah, well, get into ham radio, then (Score:5, Insightful)
800 volts on the plates of all those old heathkit transmitters using 6146 tubes. 3000 on most linear amps. ooh, and dig those metal-ceramic power tubes with beryllium oxide ceramics, or the insulator blocks for conducted cooling tubes being beryllium oxide.
or hunting. those .22 rifles can put an eye out!
scouting, perhaps? axes, knives, and pack saws, not to mention building fires.
I won't even start with farm kids, all those types of poo, power take-offs, barn roofs, tools, welders...
and this texting and Facebook thing, well, get somebody riled enough to punch you into Jello.
there is always a way for a kid to get into trouble. don't leave them to the TV, be around and guide them.
you can buy yellowcake on Amazon (Score:5, Insightful)
I bullshit you not.
Re:you can buy yellowcake on Amazon (Score:5, Informative)
linky: http://www.amazon.com/Images-S... [amazon.com]
It is a valid catalogue entry, the comments are hilarious tho.
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Fuck, Prime not available!
how's the package marked? (Score:4, Funny)
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He meant this yellow cake [amazon.com]! That other stuff is just uranium ore.
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Re:you can buy yellowcake on Amazon (Score:5, Informative)
What about United Nuclear?
http://unitednuclear.com/index... [unitednuclear.com]
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I bullshit you not.
Pfft. I can get it at my local grocery store. And the Duncan Hines mix is on sale for $1 off when you buy a can of frosting with it!
(And if you don't think that is dangerous you haven't experienced my cooking...)
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But do you have some in a special CIA napkin? [giphy.com]
So it wasn't available long (Score:2)
Comment removed (Score:3)
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I got a chemistry set. And the knowledge to turn a light builb into a fairly potent bomb.
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I got a chemistry set. And the knowledge to turn a light builb into a fairly potent bomb.
I got a chemistry set and a dad with a PhD in chemistry.
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nice!
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I got a chemistry set and a best friend's dad who had PhD in chemistry and was a professor at the school for explosives technology.
He brought us a bag full of the stuff put in the casing of a tank shell.
And my GF's father used to be the head of analytical chemistry in a uranium enrichment plant. He actually built a nuclear bomb.
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My daughter has to put up with a dad who does cryptography.
Maybe it's the modern equivalent.
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pfft. jrcookii.txt
And if it isn't dated April 10 1990 then you don't have the Jolly Roger Cookbook. Other tells include the classic obtuse-nerd 35-year-old-virgin-still-lives-with-mom language used.
(Another tell is the blatant plagiarism this takes off the Anarchist Cookbook which was published 19 years prior).
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Count yourself lucky, as a kid I can vividly remember my mother taking me to practically every toy/hobby store within a 20 mile radius looking for a simple chemistry set for a fair project. The closest thing we found was some eye droppers, we finally broke down and asked some of the employees at a fairly high end hobby shop. They told us there was no chance of finding one in any retail store, they had been practically outlawed (by the "Consumer Protection Safety Commission" I believe) out of "safety"/drug
Overstatement (Score:5, Insightful)
Calling it the most dangerous toy seems like a gross overstatement. Yeah, Uranium ore is scary, but it's a fairly low-level radiation source and as an alpha emitter it's only dangerous internally. Chemical and physical hazards are a lot more serious. Toys with lead paint that kids were likely to chew on were probably more dangerous, not to mention ones that could catch kids on fire (ordinary chemical sets) or get them run over in traffic (like bicycles).
Re:Overstatement (Score:4, Interesting)
What you said about lead based paint on toys is probably true -- they are more dangerous. But also more mundane, no one would bother reading an article about how a pseudo-dangerous toy from 1950 is stashed in a museum over in Ireland.
My guess is that the 'most dangerous' toy would be a marble. Probably offed more kids than any other, combined. (and no, not an atomic marble!)
Re:Overstatement (Score:5, Insightful)
My guess is that the 'most dangerous' toy would be a marble.
Small powerful magnets. If you swallow two a few hours apart, you run a real risk of death. Swim goggles would be my guess for #2.
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fair enough, but marbles have a several thousand year head start. neodymium-magnets are within the last couple decades, no? :)
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Re:Overstatement (Score:5, Informative)
Lawn darts -- lots of fun, only a few deaths, but lots of non-fatal injuries.
Mini Hammocks had 12 fatalities and quite a few non-fatal.
Austin Magic Pistol -- shoot a flame up to 70 feet (calcium carbide and water).
But the true winner has to be the trampoline. Deaths sure, but the thousands of serious injuries per year (visits to the E/R) is without parallel
that's just MEAN. (Score:2)
Why'd you have to go and bring that up?! At least we'll always have Big Bertha.
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Frankly, I find video games and other sedentary screen based activities to be the most dangerous pastime for children. Childhood obesity is deadly and is a direct result of a) parents restricting their kids activities away from bikes, exploring, football and other normal activities and b) the impact of junk food marketing aimed directly at kids.
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So if you ate it it might give you cancer. That IS scary, can you imagine having a substance in your house that could be harmful if you ingested it?
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I got a minerals "kit" in the early 80's an there's a little piece of uranium in there. Oh, no, small enough to eat - somehow we never thought about eating the rocks in the science kit - must've been all those helium nuclei crowding out our oxygen.
Stunned (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Stunned (Score:4, Interesting)
Have worked in a school where the children weren't allowed bunsen burners, and had to simulate chemical reactions / explosions on computer software.
It's honestly NOT that unusual.
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Have worked in a school where the children weren't allowed bunsen burners, and had to simulate chemical reactions / explosions on computer software.
It's honestly NOT that unusual.
You just have to get creative. In my high school chemistry class (late 1990s), my teacher tried to requisition some lighters (for the gas), and the administration denied it. The next week he resubmitted the request, this time calling for 'butane dispensation units'. He was given the green light and away we went!
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You just have to get creative. In my high school chemistry class (late 1990s), my teacher tried to requisition some lighters (for the gas), and the administration denied it. The next week he resubmitted the request, this time calling for 'butane dispensation units'. He was given the green light and away we went!
My shop teacher in the mid 90's mentioned how big a deal it was to get exacto knives. Whatever bureaucratic change that had recently happened denied his request to get a class set. He responded with the fact that those would be the least dangerous items we the students would use during the course of the semester. In the end he got the knives, but there had to be a big deal about checking them in/out every class. There certainly wasn't nearly as big a deal made about using the table saw, or other powered too
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Stunned and Duped (Score:2)
You're a chump if you believe the hype. Very few of these were ever turned into bombs to blow up the neighborhood. This is just a prime example to people over-reacting to great toys that should be encouraged, not discouraged. If anyone managed to hurt themselves with one of these they should get a well deserved Darwin Award.
I actually had one, a hand-me-down from an older cousin (I have no idea how it was purchased in the first place, as no one in the family had that kind of money). I don't remember the o
Heirloom Chemistry Set (Score:4, Informative)
If you want a really awesome chemistry set, you can buy one:
http://hms-beagle.com/heirloom-chemistry-set/ [hms-beagle.com]
This was a KickStarter project. He was trying to raise $30K and he raised almost five times that much.
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1742632993/heirloom-chemistry-set [kickstarter.com]
If you can't afford the full set, contact the store; the web page says they can sell any subset of the kit.
Hmm, if I ever make it to Kansas City I will try to go check out the H.M.S. Beagle science store.
More dangerous than lawn darts? (Score:5, Insightful)
More dangerous than lawn darts?
http://www.cpsc.gov/PageFiles/122377/5053.pdf [cpsc.gov]
Scared Idiots (Score:5, Insightful)
People are scared of radiation because they don't understand it.
Rather then educate children todays society is more concerned with protecting them.
Relevant XKCD [xkcd.com] for dosage information.
I would be interested in how many banana doses of radiation this kit contained.
Everything is radioactive, granite countertops, bananas, sea-salt, living in Denver (higher elevations), hell carbon dating works because all life is radioactive.
Re:Scared Idiots (Score:4, Informative)
People are scared of radiation because they don't understand it. [..] I would be interested in how many banana doses of radiation this kit contained.
You do understand that the overused pop science "banana equivalent dose" can be highly-misleading when used as a comparison with other forms of ingested radioactive materials- right?
Background- bananas are radioactive because they contain potassium and a very small- but fixed- proportion of naturally-occurring potassium is the radioactive isotope, Potassium-40.
Now, to the best of my knowledge, the amount of potassium in the body remains relatively constant (assuming you're consuming enough to maintain it), and hence so does the amount of radioactive potassium-40 . Any excess will be eliminated via the usual channels. So you're not going to "build up" any more over the long term by stuffing your face with bananas- it'll either replace/displace existing potassium or be got rid of.
This makes it very misleading to compare with other radioactive substances which can remain in the body and build up over time, i.e. the more of that source you ingest, the more that you'll have within you (and hence the radioactive dose that you constantly receive from having those within your body will *increase*).
While this shouldn't be taken as an endorsement of the "OMG! RADIATIONS WILL KILL US ALL!!!!111" lunatics, it's an indication that radiation- and its safety- isn't always as simple or as harmless as those on the other side believe either. The "banana equivalent dose" (or rather, its overuse and oversimplification) is one example.
(Disclaimer; I'm not an expert either- but I don't claim to be. Please correct any of the above if it's felt to be misleading).
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...living in Denver (higher elevations)...
Living outside Denver in the Rocky Mountains. (Granite, everywhere, we build on it. One of these days I'm going to reset my radon monitor and put it outside for a few days...)
Most dangerous? (Score:2)
How many children died from playing with one of these things compared to the bicycle, trampoline, skateboard or surfboard?
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The kind where you could learn something? Yeah, we can't have that!
What an outlandish concept, teaching kids something while them having fun! Learning has to be serious business!
Gilbert's House (Score:2)
we had similar 'experiments' in school (Score:2)
Growing up in Jamaica the physics and chem labs in high school were originally outfitted via the old colonial (UK) school system. I recall one occurrence where we were given free range to rummage around in the lab supply room and found a geiger counter which included three radiation sources one alpha, one beta, and a gamma source of radiation all enclosed in lead lined boxes. of course without reading the instructions we just opened the boxes and pulled out the 25 cent sized disks. It wasn't until the smart
Not even close. (Score:2)
So many parents assiduously sanitize every damned surface their precious child might come into contact with, their immune system becomes hyper sensitive to everything and they grow up to have so many allergies. That behavior has harmed and is harming more children
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Relax. Rely on Darwin. The problem will "mendel itself out".
Most dangerous toy, my ass (Score:2)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]
More seriously, I had a friend who had a chemistry set with a few CCs of nitric acid as part of the experiments. I remember my dad first being appalled and then showed us nitrocellulose (Kleenex and nitric acid) and how it was great for magic shows.
It's only fun if you can lose an eye.
myke
This would be a great Slashdot poll (Score:3)
Reading all the replies so far, maybe we can have a vote on what's most dangerous:
- Gilbert Atomic Energy Lab.
- Anything by Mainway Toys (SNL)
- Lawn Darts
- Chemistry sets
- Electrical kits
- Bicycles (and motorbikes)
- Scooters
- Archery kits
- etc.
Danger is/should be part of growing up.
myke
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Danger is/should be part of growing up.
So I take it you'll be sending your kids to a Nigerian summer camp...
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No, but neither is it very sensible to pack them in bubblewrap 'til they're 18 then toss them out in the street without any kind of preparation for what the real world is like whatsoever.
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You forgot those little magnetic balls. They're banned now because many kids were swallowing them, and because of their magnetism, if you swallow two, your life really is in danger as they'll find each other and tear apart your intestines along the way.
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Many kids? Really? Could you point to some evidence thereof?
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Yes it is extremely common, because using two of them on each side of the tongue can look like a tongue piercing.
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Super Happy Fun Ball (Score:3)
"Do not taunt Super Happy Atomic Energy Lab"
Any toy can become dangerous (Score:2)
in the hands of a normal 8 year old child. Cthluhu only knows how we survived our childhood.
Mattel Power Shop: (Score:3)
Working power drill press, wood lathe, jig saw, sanding disk.
Or, the Thingmaker die caster with high temp exposed parts?
Heaven forefend that we give our kids toys that let them learn useful things.
Can anyone even do woodburning crafts anymore?
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Nope. Can't have anything anymore that could possibly hurt little precious. Because parents would sue the maker into oblivion for not stating that heat is hot and stuff that melts plastic can actually burn you if you want to melt your fingers instead.
In a sue-happy culture like that (which gets its way too, just to add injury to insult), nobody with half a brain would create a toy that could in any way possibly be any more harmful than a teddy bear.
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Wal-Mart (at least here in Canada) has wood burning kits you can buy.
I got one for my (then) 10 year old daughter.
myke
More hysterical, anti-chemistry propaganda (Score:3, Insightful)
I think it is outrageous and disheartening the attitude of the media towards chemistry and the efforts of schools and reporters to terrify people of chemicals and issue these hysterical claims that are based on ignorance.
The materials and and equipment in that kit were completely harmless. Implying that a spinthariscope is dangerous is completely irresponsible. Likewise uranium is completely harmless. You can find many common, everyday articles, like bananas, that have more radiation than uranium ore.
This kind of anti-science propaganda is driving kids out of chemistry and physics classes and destroying what little is left of America's old can-do spirit.
Most costly? (Score:2)
Really? Something that costed the purchasing-power-equivalent of 400 bucks is one of the most expensive toys of its time?
Toys sure got more expensive with time...
Why this toy is dangerous! (Score:2, Informative)
This toy is incredibly dangerous because uranium is toxic. While it is only 1/10th as toxic as something like arsenic, it is almost as toxic as aspirin. A child ingesting that uranium may very well die. On a completely unrelated note: uranium is radioactive too.
Data:
LD50 of arsenic: 15mg/kg
LD50 of uranium: 115mg/kg
LD50 of aspirin: 200mg/kg
Sources:
http://whs.rocklinusd.org/docu... [rocklinusd.org]
http://www.who.int/ionizing_ra... [who.int]
unitednuclear.com (Score:2)
Most dangerous? (Score:2)
And if you think that little bit of Uranium ore is so dangerous in theat toy. let's talk about those nice granite countertops and kitchen islands.
http://www.epa.gov/radiation/t... [epa.gov]
And that's a pretty hedged site - don't want to upset the Real Estate and Construction industry. They don't note the mining, cutting and polishing of the granite.
Playing with mercury (Score:3)
When I was a child, we used to find old light switches and break them open to play with the mercury in them. But it did eventually kill me.
Fallout New Vegas toy (Score:2)
Not all that dangerous (Score:2)
Parents just wanted an easy way to (Score:2)
keep little Timmy distracted and quiet. Forever.
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Like the chemistry book my dad had in school. A little quote (translated) "and if the mixture turns pink, an explosion cannot be avoided".
I'm not sure if owning that book would still be legal in this time and age, let alone using it to teach kids chemistry. But fuck it would make things heaps more interesting! You'd be hanging on your teacher's lips... if only for self-preservation so you know when to duck or run.