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AMC Threatens Copyright Lawsuit Over Walking Dead Spoiler (torrentfreak.com) 173

Posted by msmash from the mad-world dept.
AMC has threatened the people behind The Spoiling Dead community with a lawsuit, asking them to not reveal who gets killed in the last episode of The Walking Dead's ongoing series. The Spoiling Dead community, which has over 350,000 followers on Facebook, obtains all the latest information about the hit show -- some of which are not public, and discusses it within their community. "After two years, AMC finally reached out to us! But it wasn't a request not to post any info about the Lucille Victim or any type of friendly attempt at compromise, it was a cease and desist and a threat of a lawsuit by AMC Holdings, LLC's attorney, Dennis Wilson. They say we can't make any type of prediction about the Lucille Victim," Spoiling Dead team wrote. TorrentFreak reports: AMC's claim that any spoilers will amount to copyright infringement are somewhat eyebrow raising but according to the company this ground has been covered before. "The release of plot summaries and particularly the types of crucial plot elements that you have stated you intend to release, have been found to constitute copyright infringement. Specifically, in Twin Peaks Productions vs. Publications International, the Court ruled that publishing a work that 'recount[s] for its readers precisely the plot details' of a fictional work constitutes copyright infringement."
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AMC Threatens Copyright Lawsuit Over Walking Dead Spoiler More

AMC Threatens Copyright Lawsuit Over Walking Dead Spoiler

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  • I will never understand this (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 14, 2016 @02:26PM (#52317645)
    I will never understand this. "They love our work, lets alienate the ever-loving shit out of them!" Really, it's always a brilliant move folks.
  • The butler with the rug beater died.

  • This series has run its course anyway.. (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Ratphace ( 667701 ) on Tuesday June 14, 2016 @02:33PM (#52317691)
    If anybody has been watching this series, I think most would agree that it has run its course already. I mean, how many episodes do you want to watch them killing zombies and trying to keep them at bay? Let's face it, the people in the series aren't very bright, because if I was living in the south of the USA when this occurred, then I would say that it's quite logical to head for the coast and get out to an island seeing as how zombies haven't mastered the breaststroke or freestyle techniques. There are many small islands in the gulf coast area. They seemingly have cars and fuel for everything else in the series, so why not go get on an island? I liked this series a lot in the beginning, but as it wore on, I have myself bored with it. Honestly, I never even finished the most recent season simply because it's just repetitive with nothing more innovative and exciting in the last couple seasons. Just my 2 cents.

    • Re:This series has run its course anyway.. (Score:5, Interesting)

      by rwven ( 663186 ) on Tuesday June 14, 2016 @02:44PM (#52317781)

      I gave up caring about the characters a couple seasons ago. It's devolved into a constant barrage of idiots making dumb decision after dumb decision. None of these people would be alive at this point after alienating every person they come across. They also haven't come up with a single new or inventive plot device since season 2.

      • Yea, I stopped watching it a season or two ago, it just got too ridiculous.
        But if you ever mention this to rabid fans you get the same tired excuse, "its a comic book!"
        Maybe thats why I always read actual books...

        The tragedy is this show had promise, and could have been something really good.
        Instead it ended up with writers who really need their asses kicked...

        It always made me wonder what the process was when the writers, etc, were sitting around, kicking around ideas of what was going to happe

      • Yeah, IMO the show jumped the shark around Season 4. I stopped watching after Hershel died. All the characters I liked kept getting killed off.

      • I gave up caring about the characters a couple seasons ago. It's devolved into a constant barrage of idiots making dumb decision after dumb decision. None of these people would be alive at this point after alienating every person they come across. They also haven't come up with a single new or inventive plot device since season 2.

        In that respect one must give it a lot of credit for being very honest about Homo sapiens limitations and tendencies towards the irrational, especially in stressful conditions. After a while thou this just stops making for good entertainment unfortunately

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

        The last season has actually been quite a bit better. They changed the writers and some other senior staff and it's worked wonders. I was on the verge of giving up, but the last season, and especially the last episode kept me watching.

        It's far from perfect, but there isn't much good on at the moment so it's welcome.

    • troll, they should keep the show going for decades like General Hospital or One Life to Live or any other daytime soap where they recycle the plot lines every few years

      • The Walking Dead hasn't used amnesia as a reason to bring back a long-thought-dead character? Excuse me, I need to go pitch a spec script.

        • Re: (Score:1)

          by Anonymous Coward

          Wasn't that, like, season one episode one...?

    • In world war z they can't swim but they can move through the water since they don't need to breathe. I don't watch the show so I dunno if they've addressed it or not.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Raenex ( 947668 )

      Let's face it, the people in the series aren't very bright, because if I was living in the south of the USA when this occurred, then I would say that it's quite logical to head for the coast and get out to an island seeing as how zombies haven't mastered the breaststroke or freestyle techniques.

      The most interesting thing about the Walking Dead is that the zombies weren't the most dangerous threat -- it was other people after the breakdown of society.

      I liked this series a lot in the beginning, but as it wore on, I have myself bored with it.

      I watched a few episodes from the first season and quickly found it boring because of the pacing. Game of Thrones, on the other hand, I look forward to every week.

    • It's the most popular show on TV. It's a cash cow. It definitely hasn't run its course. Please elaborate on what decisions you think were "stupid". It's no safer on an island in this fictional universe they've constructed, as you can see from Fear the Walking Dead. You're missing out if you can't overlook a few plot-lines that don't sync up with what you think the outcome should have been. This last episode's ending was literally the most intense scene I'd ever watched on TV. BUT, you have to be invested i

    • Re: (Score:3)

      by Agripa ( 139780 )

      It's a world filled with shambling, mindless monstrosities, totally incapable of logic, forethought, or fulfilling anything but their most base needs. Also, there are zombies.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Kinwolf ( 945345 )
      I don't watch the TV show, but in the comics, this was addressed. Short answer:(and I hope you realize I am now a target of potential lawsuit for revealing this plot point!!) Islands are now full of zombies too, because many people had that idea, but some brought contaminated people with them, thinking they could save them before they turned(family members, loved one, etc).

  • Not the same... from TFA (Score:4, Informative)

    by Jonah Hex ( 651948 ) <[moc.liamg] [ta] [smtodxeh]> on Tuesday June 14, 2016 @02:34PM (#52317701) Homepage Journal

    By citing a specific case one might conclude that AMC’s attorney is confident that the cases are similar, but reading the details casts more than just a little doubt on his claims.

    The historical case in question involved the publication of a book by Publications International which covered in detail the first eight episodes of the 1990/91 TV series Twin Peaks. The big question was whether this use of copyright works was protected under fair use but in the end the court decided the publisher had gone too far.

    The court found [copyright.gov] that the defendant’s “detailed recounting of the show’s plotlines went far beyond merely identifying their basic outline for the transformative purposes of comment or criticism” adding:

    Because the plot synopses were so detailed, and in fact lifted many sections verbatim from the original scripts, the court found that defendant copied a substantial amount of plaintiff’s original works.

    This hardly seems to mirror the situation playing out alongside a potential spoiler of an unaired episode of The Walking Dead. Presumably that spoiler can be achieved by saying a single name too, which by no stretch of the imagination amounts to a substantial part of any show.

    I'm ambivalent about spoilers myself, just knowing who it is doesn't equal seeing it play out with the acting, effects, etc. Sometimes I'm glad not to know, sometimes I wish I didn't know a spoiler, sometimes I love knowing.

    • this is stupid, that show is stupid (Score:4, Informative)

      by Thud457 ( 234763 ) on Tuesday June 14, 2016 @02:52PM (#52317857) Homepage Journal
      No matter how many Japanese soldiers, headhunters, astronauts and Harlem Globetrotters land on that island, Gilligan, the Skipper too, the millionaire and his wife, the movie star, and the rest are never getting off that fucking island.

      PS it's Glenn
      Somebody had to take one for the team, and he's damn sure going to make sure it's not Maggie and their babby.

      • Can't be Glenn. After the trash bin incident, it has been proven that Glenn is immortal.

      • They did get off the island.

        And yeah, it's Glenn. And nobody cares. TWD jumped the shark 2 or 3 seasons ago. I hate-watched the last two seasons hoping they'd kill off Carl. I won't bother with the next season. It's boring, the plot is nonsensical, and the characters are insufferable. AMC is going to drag the show on for eons, so you can count out any meaningful developments. They're so audacious they created a separate series (Fear the Walking Dead) to double-milk the franchise.

        AMD tried to do the s

        • Better Call Saul is a lot more interesting and innovative than Breaking Bad was, even though BCS is storytelling with one hand behind its back - that is, that you already know what the fate of several of the major characters is.

          • I disagree. I enjoyed the first 2 seasons of Better Call Saul, but it's not really innovative. (Has it been 2 seasons? Or 1 and a half? AMC and other cable networks love to break seasons into parts, so I can't even tell anymore.)

            Breaking Bad wasn't very innovative either, it just had a few amazing actors and a lot of tense moments. That tension works when a show isn't afraid to kill off characters and isn't afraid to end the story when it's appropriate. Because Better Cal Saul is a prequel spin off, t

            • Or any of the dozens of times they've suddenly found themselves surrounded by hundreds of zombies in the middle of an open field or on the highway, while they had lookouts?

              This is really the main reason I stopped watching.
              Calling the writers idiotic is going easy.

      • Don't forget they did get off the island, but they ended back on the island!

      • It's most likely the red haired guy. He left the unsatisfying relationship he was in and confessed his love for that other girl telling her he was ready to have children. The only thing more likely to get him killed is saying something about this being his last mission, he's getting out in two days to go home to his wife and two loving children.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

        I've seen the last series and still don'y know what this means. Didn't the guy start hitting Carl? Glenn tried to intervene but was stopped. Or is this something that has only happened in the comics?

  • Maybe stop with the cheap cliffhangers, AMC! (Score:2, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward

    Seriously. Stop with the cheap fakeout and cliffhangers. Quality writing over cheap gimmicks.

  • Yeah, right... (Score:5, Informative)

    by jamescford ( 205756 ) on Tuesday June 14, 2016 @02:34PM (#52317705)

    According to Stanford's Copyright and Fair Use summary (http://fairuse.stanford.edu/overview/fair-use/cases/) that Twin Peaks case might not be the precedent they say it is.

    Not a fair use. A company published a book entitled Welcome to Twin Peaks: A Complete Guide to Who’s Who and What’s What, containing direct quotations and paraphrases from the television show Twin Peaks, as well as detailed descriptions of plots, characters, and setting. Important factors: The amount of the material taken was substantial and the publication adversely affected the potential market for authorized books about the program. (Twin Peaks v. Publications Int’l, Ltd., 996 F.2d 1366 (2d Cir. 1993).)

    (emphasis added)

    • Re:Yeah, right... (Score:4, Informative)

      by StinkiePhish ( 891084 ) on Tuesday June 14, 2016 @03:02PM (#52317913)
      The language in the case couldn't be more clear that it was not "crucial plot elements" that the case was about, but pure copying:

      Defendants have directly copied or paraphrased substantial portions of TPP's teleplays. Much of the book consists of detailed description of the plot, setting, and character development of the first eight episodes of "Twin Peaks." Excerpts from episodes are quoted verbatim. A work that is literally similar may be found to be an infringement of copyright.

      This Court further finds that because "Welcome to Twin Peaks" is based on the teleplay and employs direct quotations and paraphrases, it is a derivative work.

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by Anonymous Coward

      Obviously which character was killed is not covered by copyright. It could, however, be argued to be a trade secret, since measures have been taken to protect it, and it could be argued that the public not knowing it makes it valuable.

      • Trade secrets aren't protected by any law. Being a trade secret only means it is freely sharable if someone else figures it out.

    • According to Stanford's Copyright and Fair Use summary (http://fairuse.stanford.edu/overview/fair-use/cases/) that Twin Peaks case might not be the precedent they say it is.

      Not a fair use. A company published a book entitled Welcome to Twin Peaks: A Complete Guide to Who’s Who and What’s What, containing direct quotations and paraphrases from the television show Twin Peaks, as well as detailed descriptions of plots, characters, and setting. Important factors: The amount of the material taken was substantial and the publication adversely affected the potential market for authorized books about the program. (Twin Peaks v. Publications Int’l, Ltd., 996 F.2d 1366 (2d Cir. 1993).)

      (emphasis added)

      It may be... FTA:

      “AMC is aware that The Spoiling Dead Fans site is promoting your claim that you have received copyright protected, trade secret information about the most critical plot information in the unreleased next season of The Walking Dead,” the letter begins. “You also state that you plan to distribute this purported highly confidential information despite your knowledge that such distribution, if the information is indeed accurate, is unauthorized and will greatly damage AMC, distributors of The Walking Dead as well as Walking Dead fans awaiting the new seasons’ release who wish to watch their favorite show unspoiled.”

      While we can't know for certain without seeing the letter and/or what the Spoiling Dead folks claim to have received, this doesn't appear to be about predictions, as much as stolen copies of scripts or something.

      • "this doesn't appear to be about predictions, as much as stolen copies of scripts or something."

        But TSDF isn't implying that they are going to release a copy of the full script, which would be a copyright violation, but rather the simple name of a character. If, per Twin Peaks, they don't accompany that with substantial verbatim excepts from the script, then it is quite likely that the release of a name would be be fair use (if the publication of a characters name would even violate copyright at all, whi

        • "this doesn't appear to be about predictions, as much as stolen copies of scripts or something."

          But TSDF isn't implying that they are going to release a copy of the full script, which would be a copyright violation, but rather the simple name of a character. If, per Twin Peaks, they don't accompany that with substantial verbatim excepts from the script, then it is quite likely that the release of a name would be be fair use (if the publication of a characters name would even violate copyright at all, which if it didn't wouldn't even need a a fair use exception)

          For copyright purposes, yes... However, it would still be misappropriation of trade secrets, which has no fair use defense, and is just as illegal.

  • I like the show, but then, I liked Breaking Bad too and still stopped in the middle, for no particular reason. I don't need reasons to stop watching a show, but if the thought crosses my mind, this'll be one.

    Stop suing fans.

    Idiots.

    • Finish Breaking Bad. Best show ever. I watched all 5 seasons in two weeks once, using my time very effectively and to good use (the end is perfect, as is the song at the end).

      Best show ever. I never expected the father in Malcolm in the Middle to be that good of an actor.

  • Over-reaching (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Rick Zeman ( 15628 ) on Tuesday June 14, 2016 @02:38PM (#52317733)

    " Court ruled that publishing a work that 'recount[s] for its readers precisely the plot details' of a fictional work constitutes copyright infringement.""

    Saying "Joe Blow died." does not reach the "precisely" level.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by mark-t ( 151149 )
      If I were to take a guess, AMC is taking "precisely" to mean the same thing as"accurately", and so if the statement simply accurately (however generally) describes a plot detail (that is, to use your example, the character Joe Blow died) then it meets that definition of "precisely".

      • If I were to take a guess, AMC is taking "precisely" to mean the same thing as"accurately", and so if the statement simply accurately (however generally) describes a plot detail (that is, to use your example, the character Joe Blow died) then it meets that definition of "precisely".

        DetailS. So no, it doesn't.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by mark-t ( 151149 )
          Well, I said it was just a guess. I honestly have no idea how else they could interpret a general description of plot details as being "precise".

  • I stopped watching after the 2nd season, so I'm not sure but aren't they still loosely following the comic book plots? If so, how can they prevent people from talking about potential plots for work already released?

    Does the law actually prevent people from discussing potential plots for shows? Can websites really be sued for people trying to figure out who the Emperor is in StarWars, and if Luke is really the father of Rey?

    Or are they receiving the C&D because they are supposedly getting ahold of and

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Nidi62 ( 1525137 )

      I stopped watching after the 2nd season, so I'm not sure but aren't they still loosely following the comic book plots?

      Loosely yes, from what I understand (never read the comics). But they've changed the dynamics of some of the groups/characters, added/removed/combined characters (Darryl isn't even in the comics but they'll never kill him off because they'd lose at least 2/3 of the female viewership)), killed off some characters that should still be alive and vice versa, and done some things in different orders. So just because a character might die at a certain point in the comics doesn't mean they will die at the same t

  • It's Glenn! It's so Glenn! You know it's Glenn!

    I don't actually know, but come on... you know it's Glenn.

  • Cliff Notes (Score:3, Insightful)

    by JaneTheIgnorantSlut ( 1265300 ) on Tuesday June 14, 2016 @02:46PM (#52317797)
    I guess Cliff Notes are off the table, too.

  • They should post fake spoilers (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward
    If they want to keep it a secret who dies, then they should start "leaking" fake spoilers, and then just sit back and say nothing. As a bonus, it probably would cost less to create those fake spoilers, than it would to actually go through with a lawsuit.
  • send AMC lots and lots of money and watch the show with your mouth open and slobber dripping off your lips as you get surprised like you're supposed to so you keep watching and sending them more money. and don't forget to play the games and buy the trinkets

  • Don't all they hafta do is preface every spoiler with: "Ya know what I think's gonna happen....." ?

  • Is it Jeff? I hope it's Jeff. No-one likes Jeff.

  • Did they sign an NDA??? No? Then they aren't doing anything wrong by publish plot details that they never agreed to keep private in the first place.

    Although giving the matter the further thought, maybe AMC is just trying to use the publicity of this lawsuit to generate more interest in their show.

  • Colony is the new replacement (Score:3)

    by future assassin ( 639396 ) on Tuesday June 14, 2016 @03:15PM (#52318001)

    Walking Dead got boring three seasons in and don't even enjoy watching it anymore. With Colony, The Expanse, Killjoys and many other sci-fi coming back in full force zombie drama is done.

    • Not watching TWD anymore either - got utterly boring, but please... on IMDb
      7.3 Colony
      8.2 The Expanse
      7.1 Killjoys
      8.6 The Walking Dead

      Still waiting for a decent TWD replacement...

  • Glenn dies there I said it (Score:3)

    by future assassin ( 639396 ) on Tuesday June 14, 2016 @03:18PM (#52318023)

    now gimme my 15 min of fame.

    • In the comics Glen dies... but who knows what they will do in the show. Glen is a beloved character and they may go another route to keep him on the show longer. However, they did foreshadow his death several times on the show already (baseball bat held by Glen in earlier scenes, death by the dumpster avoided) and I agree with you that they will more than likely kill off Glen. What has me doubting that Glen dies are the recent photos of Norman Reedus and Steven Yeun on their way to set (they helped some peo

  • You can't copyright a plot. You can only copyright your expression of it, eg: the script you wrote or the TV show you're producing.
    You can't stop anyone from creating their own versions of the plot.

  • Techdirt's take on the matter (Score:3)

    by jenningsthecat ( 1525947 ) on Tuesday June 14, 2016 @03:45PM (#52318281)

    https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20160613/01084434693/pure-bullshit-amc-threatens-huge-fan-community-with-copyright-claim-over-spoiler-predictions.shtml [techdirt.com]

    It would be great if the EFF got involved so The Spoiling Dead could take AMC to court. And IMHO this would be worth the EFF's time and money. Somebody needs to keep (re-)drawing the line between legitimate copyright claims, and spurious ownership claims made by corporations that piss on everything in sight like some not-house-broken dog in their efforts to mark it all as their own. Under the current civil law setup, average citizens simply can't afford to defend their own rights against bullies such as AMC.

  • Matter of Law (Score:3)

    by CPIMatt ( 206195 ) on Tuesday June 14, 2016 @03:56PM (#52318373)

    Their argument citing that case is pretty weak. In that case, Publisher's International published a book about the TV show Twin Peaks, after the show came out. A very in-depth book citing plots, actors, dialogue, etc. Although Publisher's International didn't have copies of the script, they did copy basically the TV show after it came out. In this case it would be very hard to prove that the website had any such access, especially since the Walking Dead show has not come out yet. They probably haven't even registered their copyright. Plus it is obviously commentary on the show. However these days the one with the deepest pocket wins in court, sadly.

    -Matt

  • So what if you knew who's gonna die? (Score:4, Informative)

    by Opportunist ( 166417 ) on Tuesday June 14, 2016 @04:12PM (#52318507)

    Remember Colombo? You saw exactly, in the first few minutes, who's killing whom, with what motivation and in what way, no doubt about who killed whom, how, why and where.

    And still people watched. Why? Because it's interesting how the whole thing unfolds.

  • fight back as if they can win this and then Hollywood can pull the same BS to stop bad movie reviews

  • Fools Just feed a different false spoiler to several different sites and your problem i solved.

  • Inapplicable (Score:3)

    by spire3661 ( 1038968 ) on Tuesday June 14, 2016 @05:19PM (#52319037) Journal
    It is my understanding that this applies to fair use as a limit on how much you can DIRECTLY COPY of a work. Describing the plot is not the same as quoting the plot's most interesting dialog to the point of spoiling it.
    • The wikipedia article on derived works says that things even as derivative as translations are protected under fair use. One could argue that these spoilers are a translation of the work into the author's own terms. Unless there is a substantial amount of information copied from the transcript or some copyrighted, released work this should be a derived work protected under fair use. (I'm not a lawyer, blah)

  • Then they shouldn't post a spoiler. Their whole front page should just be one character's name in a huge font.

    Surely that cannot be a spoiler, regardless if that character happens to die in the finale.

  • So, Wikipedia could be sued for all those books and movies entries that describes the plot? All those reviews online and on tv could also be sued when they reveal anything about the plot? Pleeaaaaassse AMC. What complete FUD

  • I care so little about this stuff that I made a post to comment on it, lol. :)

    Seriously, all this television-psychosis and social media masturbation seems so alien to me and so far removed from my life that it's kind of sobering to see how much other people care about it. And if that's your thing, have at it, more power to ya. It just shows me how my interests differ so widely from the general population, I guess. I'm not against it, I just feel like an outsider observing a foreign culture with weird, unfam

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