US Labor Organization AFL-CIO Urges Game Developers To Unionize In Open Letter (gamasutra.com) 158
An anonymous reader quotes a report from Gamasutra: In the wake of Activision Blizzard's massive layoff wave, a move that was announced in the same call as the company's record quarter, the union federation AFL-CIO has published an open letter to game developers urging members of the industry to organize. The AFL-CIO itself is the largest labor organization in the United States and counts 55 individual unions (and more than 12.5 million workers) among its affiliates. The letter, readable in full on Kotaku, calls out many of the issues that have prompted conversations about unionization in just recent years like excessive crunch, toxic work conditions, inadequate pay, and job instability. The industry, points out AFL-CIO's secretary-treasurer Liz Shuler, boasted sales 3.6 times greater than those of the film industry in 2018, yet much of that financial success isn't felt by the developers working on the games that generate those billions. "Executives are always quick to brag about your work. It's the talk of every industry corner office and boardroom. They pay tribute to the games that capture our imaginations and seem to defy economic gravity. They talk up the latest innovations in virtual reality and celebrate record-smashing releases, as your creations reach unparalleled new heights," says Shuler.
"My question is this: what have you gotten in return? They get rich. They get notoriety. They get to be crowned visionaries and regarded as pioneers. What do you get? Outrageous hours and inadequate paychecks. Stressful, toxic work conditions that push you to your physical and mental limits. The fear that asking for better means risking your dream job. [...] Change will happen when you gain leverage by joining together in a strong union. And, it will happen when you use your collective voice to bargain for a fair share of the wealth you create every day. No matter where you work, bosses will only offer fair treatment when you stand together and demand it."
"My question is this: what have you gotten in return? They get rich. They get notoriety. They get to be crowned visionaries and regarded as pioneers. What do you get? Outrageous hours and inadequate paychecks. Stressful, toxic work conditions that push you to your physical and mental limits. The fear that asking for better means risking your dream job. [...] Change will happen when you gain leverage by joining together in a strong union. And, it will happen when you use your collective voice to bargain for a fair share of the wealth you create every day. No matter where you work, bosses will only offer fair treatment when you stand together and demand it."
True (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:True (Score:5, Insightful)
or political ambition
Could you point to a recent election where a union leader won? Or even ran?
Or is this more along the lines of "political ambition" in the form of "lobbying", which is an excellent business practice when corporations do it, but horrifyingly evil when unions do it?
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It is horrifyingly evil when it is a public union, just mildly evil for private sector unions.
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FTFY. Public sector unions exist because self-centered fools such as yourself expect professional services without having to pay professional wages - and you vote.
Pure dumbfuckery. If that actually worked, the US would be a socialist utopia as more and more legislators supported those
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He's cheating! I want to cheat, too!
Most lobbying ends up as bribery, direct or indirect, open or disguised. It should be strictly prohibited, and all bribery of government personnel should result in long prison terms for both parties.
Re:True (Score:4)
Or is this more along the lines of "political ambition" in the form of "lobbying", which is an excellent business practice when corporations do it, but horrifyingly evil when unions do it?
Didn't you read the memo? Anything that can be done without paying buckets of money to a corporation is automatically heresy and to be publicly scorned.
Re:True (Score:4, Informative)
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Bill Shorten https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org] Likely to be Australia's Next Prime minister and most of his party are former Union Leaders and when they win the leader is either former union leader or union managemnt of some sort. While this may not be the case in the US we have a problem with unions in Australia https://www.theguardian.com/au... [theguardian.com] Note the US is one country on slashdot, the rest of the world is represented here also
Yes we have a problem with unions, but we would definitely be worse off without them. Going of the most recent royal commission we also have a problem with banks but we would be worse without them. And spoiler alert here but we have a problem with aged care in this country. It's pretty unfair to use the results of a royal commission, most of which have already been dealt with, to claim we have a major problem, they have proven quite crucial in dealing with hidden problems before they get too out of control
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Why would you want to be a politician? Where you have a job where half the politicians kiss your butt?
I have never seen a Unionized work place any better off then a non-unioned. I often see more firing and worse working conditions.
As the Union cares more about numbers then quality. So they will negotiate firing skilled workers to bring in double unskilled workers. The extra salary bonus they may get gets sucked into Union dues. If one is forced to strike then that salary increase is lost due to the day
You've never looked, then (Score:1)
Or you've looked for the "wrong things", i.e. you've looked for higher returns or something to do with capitalist "winning".
Pay is better when unionised. That weekend you get off? Unions did that. Minimum wage? Unions. Go tell me that if there were no minimum wage those on minimum wage would be better off.
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Thanks, Catholic church.
No, that's Sunday off. You get Saturday off because of the efforts of Unions, and the need for non-union employers to match their benefits.
What about when the union does nothing to protect? (Score:5, Informative)
There are some cases in which union protection is important. Unfortunately, they don't always provide that protection, and one wonders why. One case where the union fell flat recently is the proposition in California that passed requiring changes in how EMTs handled emergencies during their breaks. This was promoted as making sure that emergency services were available to all, but they already were. The only change was that the big ambulance firm would no longer have to pay them overtime if they had to drop everything and take a call during their breaks.
The EMT's union, which I think was the same one that now wants to unionize game developers, declined to write anything in opposition to this proposition, and didn't mount any viable publicity campaign aginst the proposition. Thus, those EMTs who are out to save your life got screwed over.
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the big ambulance firm
There's your problem right there.
We've let Unions get gutted for 40 years (Score:5, Insightful)
We need to start passing pro-Union laws to protect American's collective bargaining rights again. Eliminating "right to work" (my God the right wing is good at marketing) laws is a good start. Also we need a ton of new laws banning companies from punishing workers for Unionizing. And anti Union busting laws too.
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The president of the AFL-CIO makes $300k (Score:2, Insightful)
He'd be much better off going into Televangist work. Creflo Dollar's worth $27 million and has been doing his schtick for about 30 years (give or take). That's about $900k/yr. He did that on the backs of just 30,000 folks in his church.
Local Union President Here (Score:2, Interesting)
For years as union president. Total compensation = 0. Sorry if the facts contradict your opinions.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
If I even mention the "U" word in any workplace, I'd get sent out the door, and definitely blacklisted. Hell, I actually was told I was blacklisted for life from most places, just because I used to work at the county, and was a part of a local union there.
Of course, technically blacklists are illegal, but hey, when you use an offshore third party that gives a thumbs up or thumbs down on employees, you skirt that law.
Re: True (Score:2)
"when you use an offshore third party that gives a thumbs up or thumbs down on employees, you skirt that law."
Details, please?
Re: True (Score:2)
It maybe illegal to blacklist but let's say I am HR or a manager. I can say nothing wrong but in a dread tone mixed with some sighs say something like " sigh breath. Yeah he worked here. Uh huh in a sarcastic tone. He did X for Y time. I then will be silent. When asked if you were rehireable I say sharply and rudely SIR! I can't answer that!
Technically I followed the law and didn't defame you if you recorded my words. However, you most certainly would have a rescinded job offer.
There are ways around things
Re: True (Score:2)
Yes, I understand how that works. But I'm very interested in the AC's claim about using an offshore third party.
Re:A Union Promoting Forming a Union... (Score:5, Insightful)
Or, just go on believing you're the next John Galt just waiting for your genius utopia. That's what your CEO wants anyway while he's burning the company down around himself and cashing in before having your cubicle packed up.
The game industry isn't any different from the film industry, movies can literally be made anywhere in the world, that hasn't gotten rid of Union representation in the film business though, as much as the Oligarch class would prefer it otherwise.
Re: A Union Promoting Forming a Union... (Score:1)
The game industry does have less nepotism, favoritism and use of sexual favors to advance your career though
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Didn't John Galt lead people out on strike?
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WTF, Dude! You aren't supposed to actually read Ayn Rand, just cite it to give your opinion some intellectual weight.
Re: required? (Score:2)
It's notorious that "10x programmers" are NEVER paid 10x the salary of their minimum competence colleagues. So tell me again, who exactly is benefitting from the current system?
That's actually a pretty good comparison (Score:4, Interesting)
So let's take a look at that. How has unionizing helped income equality in the film industry? Apparently not much, as two of the five companies with the worst CEO to median worker pay ratio [usatoday.com] are film studios, and a third is a TV studio.
If you look through that list, you get the sense that the presence of robust competition within the industry is the important factor, not unions. About a third of the companies on that list enjoy IP monopolies (copyrights, patents) or regulatory monopolies (ISPs). And several of the remainder have close to a natural monopoly.
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My union just negotiated such indirect benefits as a salary cap and a six year pay freeze (to bring me under the salary cap).
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I'm in Canada; time off didn't change and is effectively the legal minimum; I have a contract that is renewed annually but contains a clause that says I can be fired for any reason, including "funds ran out", with two weeks notice or two weeks pay in lieu.
Yes, I am an academic.
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Did you get decent health care? Did you get paid time off that you can actually use? Did you get some assurance that you wont be laid off next month or fired without cause? Some things are worth more than money because you could never get these things on your own.
Yeah, my last four jobs all offered those.
Didn't join a union in any of them. Got indirectly fucked over by a union in two of them. Fucking unions.
"Robust competition" didn't win rights, residuals, (Score:3)
...or freedom from studio contracts that kept actors chained to MGM et all. Unions did that. Remember the writers strike from a few years ago? Where studios used loopholes to not pay writers for content streamed online, that the studios were profiting from? The word begins with a u...
So another union-bashing post were one of the primary complaints is...that unions
Germany puts the lie to that booltlicking (Score:2)
https://www.forbes.com/sites/f... [forbes.com]
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/ne... [telegraph.co.uk]
Are you fucking kidding me? (Score:3)
And don't forget all the blue collar folks who make movies happen. Sets don't build themselves. I know guys who did that work and they wouldn't trade their Union for anything.
As for Income inequity, their Union got them better pay. If the boss makes 100,000,000,000/yr and your making $100,000 yeah, income inequality is pretty ba
AFL-CIO is Right but not the answer (Score:4, Interesting)
Look at German unions, intimately tied to the businesses their workers are employed. The business’ welfare is the union’s welfare. Less stupid shit happens.
Mega unions like AFL-CIO not so much. The big wigs in it aren’t working stiffs at the same places themselves but just political whores. They have so many businesses under their belt, they strike and the employees suffer because the business dies, they don’t care because they think they proved a point. It’s just trading one master for another.
The game industry needs to unionize but the workers don’t need a new master.
Germany's much smaller than the US (Score:2)
And I mentioned this on another thread but the big wigs don't make all that much. It only sounds like a lot down in the trenches because we've lost so much ground over the years. Their president makes $300k/yr, which is ridiculously low for an organization the size of the AFL-CIO. The chick with a nice rack who hocks
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You need a big organization like the AFL-CIO so that folks in one industry can strike and be supported by folks half a world away until the strike's over.
That's entirely fucking orthogonal to your point about German unions and centralised workforce, except possibly being proven entirely fucking wrong by it.
. Their president makes $300k/yr, which is ridiculously low
No. It's not.
a network of workers who'll support you when you strike and who you'll support when they strike
Fuck that. You strike, it's on you. Don't be expecting me to support you. I'm not asking for handouts when I quit my job because I don't like it.
You have to do it nationally or they just move to a new state every time you try it.
So they move to a new country instead. See also: The last forty years.
Apply for a job, negotiate your pay and conditions and if you don't like it, get a new one. It's not fucking hard.
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! (Score:2)
Excuse me while I laugh my ass completely off...
No...
Bad companies invite unions (Score:1)
EA, Activision, et all. They deserve this.
Unions make US brands look elsewhere (Score:1)
With overtime?
English speaking nations with different tax laws and exchange rates exist.
Their workers can code and can be further educated to new learn game code.
Their university system educates on merit. Math and code. Their artists can paint, draw, animate. They have musicians ready for any type of game.
Their nations gov will offer code education, great tax concessions to attract any type of new US investment and no US style activity.
Low cos
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Governments that will lower the tax rate and who will welcome investment.
No "management" would sit around and pay more for the same product with the risk of union activity.
Management of digital brands have the wealth and ability to move away from union activity in a city and state .
\o/ (Score:1)
Welcome to the world of employment.
Please queue by the meat grinder on the left for your pay cheque.
I wish I could tell you it would improve things (Score:3)
Doing so, however, would be a lie.
Vlad30 nailed it in his post and had his Score not already been maxed out, I would have tossed some mod points his way.
I've worked within the confines of a Unionized company for more than twenty years now and, to be honest, they impress me less and less every year. Thankfully / hopefully, I will retire from this circus soon.
When contract negotiations begin, Union Leadership will fight tooth and nail for two things:
1) Maintaining or adding head count
2) Pay raises for their members
While the hard core Unionites will disagree with me, the Union fights for the above for one reason only: Getting one or both ultimately leads to more Union Dues being paid to the Union. ( #1 is obvious, #2 is because Union Dues are a percentage of a Union Members base pay. So a pay raise for the member = a pay raise for the Union )
That's it. That's all. That is the ONLY goal the Union has. Make. More. Money.
This is why our healthcare premiums keep increasing every year because the Union doesn't give a damn about how much their members have to pay out of pocket for health insurance. As long as they get their dues, everything is golden. No one seems to notice that their meager annual raise gets negated by the rising health care premiums.
Sometimes I wonder if the Union has a secret agreement with the company during negotiations to get that paltry raise and / or headcount in exchange for allowing the company to dump more of its healthcare costs on their employees. The Union doesn't lose anything in the process, so it's a Win-Win for them. Not so much for the employees though.
That said, the other problem with Unionizing is mediocrity.
The Rockstars will do their thing for a while, until they ask themselves why they're busting their ass while the Idiot ( who doesn't even know how to turn his computer on without help ) is making the exact same pay and benefits. Eventually, they give up, scale back their efforts and their light doesn't shine quite as brightly as it used to.
On the flip side, the Idiot realizes he doesn't really need to bust his ass like the Rockstar does since they are making the same pay and benefits. There isn't any motivation or incentive here to learn or increase their productivity because, in a Union, there can't be a pay / benefit difference for those performing the same work. This person does just enough so they don't get fired.
As a result, over time, the performance of any given group tends to trend downwards towards the Idiot side of things. They meet somewhere in the middle and you end up with a team who is mediocre at best.
The final insult is when the layoffs start. Once Unionized, your amazing Rockstar skills are irrelevant. The only thing that matters is Seniority. Whomever has been there the longest, will have the most Seniority. Layoffs start from the least Senior and work their way up to the top. So if you're a Rockstar who has been there for five years, but the Idiot has been there longer, guess who gets the axe first ? :|
Once upon a time, the Unions definitely had their place in the working world. These days, however, I think they've been corrupted by the money they bring in and the idea that they represent their members is merely a smokescreen for their true agenda.
That being: Make as much money as they can at the expense of those they're pretending to represent.
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That said, the other problem with Unionizing is mediocrity.
I've yet to see a union advocate argue that one away either.
Technically a union can support and demand training and reskilling for employees. The ones in Germany and the UK do.
In the UK at least, that doesn't however sufficiently compensate for the sheer difficulty they cause in removing incompetent fuckwits.
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I've yet to see a union advocate argue that one away either.
Could always ask one as its an easy one to answer. The "unions just protect the lazy" trope is built on the notion that Bill, union worker, is happy to run over and do his own job plus Steve's when Steve slacks off or doesn't know what he's doing. Or that Mary, 3rd grade teacher, is ecstatic to have to reteach math for some of her incoming students because their second grade teacher was incompetent at it.
But of course humans aren't built that way
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Are you shitting me?
Bill bitches, the union complains that the company hasn't trained Steve properly and the managers are bullying him.
Mary bitches, the union complains that the Government keep changing education standards.
Meanwhile the school tries to sack that second grade teacher, gets sued for wrongful dismissal, sexism, bullying, creating a hostile workplace and treating staff as a disposable resource.
Which makes this anti-union trope both obnoxious and facile.
Unions protect mediocrity. That's not a trope.
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Which is a total sin in an organization where the CEO and the shareholders Want. To. Make. More. Money? You do know that union. operations. cost. money? Negotiating, recruiting and lobbying - same thing the company does with the profits you produce, but class traitors like yourself never have a problem with?
Hyperbad (Score:2)
Here we come!
Re:Note the language (Score:5, Insightful)
Sounds like every corporation I've ever worked for. "Those" people are after your jobs! Work harder and don't take vacation or we'll buy robots! It's your fault we're moving to China, why can't YOU live on $5 an hour? We're a team aren't we??
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Sounds like every corporation I've ever worked for. "Those" people are after your jobs! Work harder and don't take vacation or we'll buy robots! It's your fault we're moving to China, why can't YOU live on $5 an hour? We're a team aren't we??
I've never heard that from any company. I haven't heard any genuine secondhand accounts of it either.
We can read the AFL-CIO language right here though. It's not a made up story. It's what they actually said.
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Lessee, one from Kohath and a 'rebuttal' from an AC. You lose, AC. Moniker posts of anecdotes may be suspect but AC posts of anecdotes are totally worthless.
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I've never heard that from any company.
The multi-billion dollar corporation I work for is doing just this to the guys who make the products we sell right now.
Endless cost-cutting has resulted in poor quality, meaning customers leaving. Guess who is being told they have to take a pay cut?
If you've guessed the CEO I have a bridge to sell you.
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I've never heard that from any company.
The multi-billion dollar corporation I work for is doing just this to the guys who make the products we sell right now.
Endless cost-cutting has resulted in poor quality, meaning customers leaving. Guess who is being told they have to take a pay cut?
If you've guessed the CEO I have a bridge to sell you.
And now I still don’t think I've heard a genuine secondhand account.
Unemployment is 4%.
Re: Note the language (Score:2)
"Unemployment is 4%."
During Stalin's famines the Soviet statistical agency reported record harvests.
Keep on believin'!
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Oh, hang on. No, they can't
Re: Note the language (Score:2)
I have. It depends where you work. They won't use that exact verbage but it will be along theines of wow that cheap contractor we only pay 20 an hour wrote more lines of code than you with an an uncomfortable laugh or now how many tickets did you do? Are overseas teams handled more?
Then the boss will look at your phone on your desk and go hmm and walk away and make the assumption you text or are on Facebook and don't work like the Indians do. This of course in an effort to scare you or let you know he is no
Bullshit (Score:5, Insightful)
You're strawmaning. You're trying to redirect the conversation away from "Game devs are being taken advantage of and should organized for better bargaining power" to "The heads of the Union you form might be corrupt so don't form one in the first place". The Stawman here is a big, scary Union Boss.
This has _nothing_ to do with negativity and everything to do with the fact that you, by yourself, do not have enough leverage to secure decent or even safe working conditions. This is a historic fact. It's not something that's up for debate. You by yourself cannot beat Jeff Bezos or Bill Gates in negotiations.
Of course you're just parroting a long standing anti-Union straw man. Are you getting paid to do this or just trolling for fun? Either way you're the 20th century equivalent of this [wikipedia.org]. Didn't work last time either.
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Your stories vs. the actual words of the AFL-CIO guy. Which should we believe?
AFL-CIO guy's words are not a strawman.
You should stop mischaracterizing his words (Score:5, Insightful)
An agenda isn't a bad thing when your interests align. Assuming you're not planing to make a career as a right wing troll ala Roger Stone or Karl Rove then your interest are aligned with mine. Heck, even then most guys don't make it to Stone or Rove's level. They get ground up into paste by the machine.
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People can judge for themselves. They should ask themselves how envy will lead to happiness and contentment and goodwill.
People can't _negotiate_ by themselves (Score:2)
We got that because people banded together against the insurance companies. It's the same for wages. I can break a stick. Bind a hundred of them and I can't break it anymore. Ancient fucking China figured that out. Why the hell can't you? They're gonna eat you alive.
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You don’t sound happy. Why would anyone want to share your attitude? It means they can never be happy. They always need to try to fight their neighbors, so they can find a way to steal their neighbors' money. It's a sad way to live.
It's especially sad because you never end up getting your neighbors' money, and even if you do get a tiny fraction of what you want, you ultimately won't get to keep it. Your neighbors will mount a defense and get it back, or you'll end up turning a rich country into a
Re: You should stop mischaracterizing his words (Score:2)
My brother - defending the interests of labor against capital is not a left/right issue. Fascists, small-c communists, big-C Communists, traditionalists, distributists, nationalists, monarchists, theocrats, agrarians, anarchists, socialists, and paleo-conservatives all have a long history of opposition to parasitic capitalism.
Solidarity means ALL of us standing together.
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...you, by yourself, do not have enough leverage to secure decent or even safe working conditions. This is a historic fact. It's not something that's up for debate. You by yourself cannot beat Jeff Bezos or Bill Gates in negotiations.
I absolutely can if they need my help. I'm extremely good at my job. I'm not some interchangeable worker-drone. (Almost no one is — it’s not 1895 anymore.).
People in the games industry have this thing called talent. They're not units of labor that go into a production equation.
If you're not talented and you think you'll never be very valuable to your production team, then the union is for you. They'll make sure even the dregs can get by.
If you are talented in an industry-appropriate skill,
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I'm extremely good at my job. I'm not some interchangeable worker-drone. (Almost no one is — it’s not 1895 anymore.).
Oooo... someone thinks they're a special unique flower....
If you've ever left a job, and that company has done ok without you, you're replaceable. Perhaps for your own sake it would be worth reconsidering how interchangeable you are.
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Perhaps for your own sake it would be worth reconsidering how interchangeable you are.
I do reconsider it. Every time we interview someone. Each time we interview an applicant, I am more and more convinced that my employer needs me a lot more than I need them.
It's a good suggestion though. Everyone should be thinking about how they can maximize their value (and hence their pay).
Re: Bullshit (Score:2)
That's bullshit. If you had a massive heart attack to died today your employer will still exist tomorrow. Products or services provided will still be done. Hell, your team will still deliver it's products too! You are 100% replaceable always.
Don't delude yourself. Former CEOS who contributor hell of a lot more than you from McDonald's, Microsoft, Home Depot, GM, etc have all been fired. Yet they are still selling shit and making money.
People need to put their ego blinders off and realize they are not God's
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That's bullshit. If you had a massive heart attack to died today your employer will still exist tomorrow. Products or services provided will still be done.
They would have a really difficult time and face production delays. They would desperately try to hire a replacement. It would cost them a lot and they would have a really difficult time getting someone more than half as good at it.
Hell, your team will still deliver it's products too!
Not on time. Not working correctly. Not even close. Delays and errors are very expensive.
Former CEOS who contributor hell of a lot more than you from McDonald's, Microsoft, Home Depot, GM, etc have all been fired. Yet they are still selling shit and making money.
Awesome example. Look at the performance of McDonalds in the last few years of their new CEO versus the last few years under their previous CEO. Then tell us how Steve Easterbrook is "
Re: Bullshit (Score:2)
+1 blunt
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Incorrect. We interview people all the time. None of them know how to do the work. We've hired a couple and trained them. Years later, they're still only ok at it.
Just because you aren't talented doesn't mean the rest of us have that same limitation.
Re: Bullshit (Score:2)
I can replace you easily. Name the price and it will be done. There is always another programmer better and more experienced than you. There are those just better or have better people skills that get along with management.
No sense bowing to your corporate masters as your a cog black box to them and only the rockstar CEO is important... FYI he is not either according to Wall Street
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Of course you're just parroting a long standing anti-Union straw man.
So what you are saying is that we don't need to worry about corruption in unions, that we should just join unions regardless of any doubts or prior experiences?
I guess the corruption thing will just work its own way out and should not be a concern to us mortals?
Your blindness is adorable in its naivety. It is also extremely dangerous to me. You are the first person that I have ever considered making a "foe" on Slashdot. Not because you offend me or make me mad. No. It is your blindness. You are dangerous to
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it will happen when you use your collective voice to bargain for a fair share of the wealth you create every day
How about instead of working for that company you head down to Mom's basement and create some wealth on your own? You can't.
If you can be replaced by another competent developer who can do the same job then you aren't creating the wealth. You get paid a salary to do a job, and if you don't think the salary is worth what's asked of you, leave.
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Dirty Unions (Score:1)
Besides bringing you weekends, 40-hour work weeks, an end to child labor, etc, what have the unions ever done for the US?
\s
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Besides bringing you weekends, 40-hour work weeks, an end to child labor, etc, what have the unions ever done for the US?
\s
You don't owe modern organizers any money or gratitude for the efforts of other people who died a long time ago. Modern organizers did none of those things.
German unions won 28h work week (Score:2)
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/ne... [telegraph.co.uk]
Your feudal overlords sure do appreciate your keeping their boots clean pro-bono.
Re: Socialist drivel (Score:2)
Criemer is that you?