Roku Built the Dominant Streaming Box. Now It's Under Siege (bloomberg.com) 93
An anonymous reader shares a report: More than 30 million people use a Roku device to navigate the constellation of streaming TV services. The company's portfolio includes the "stick" ($49.99), which resembles a USB drive; the "puck" ($79.99), a black square with smooth edges and minimal detailing; and a $400 smart TV with Roku's operating system. The more expensive options offer better image quality and such features as extra digital storage space. As the era of cable and satellite TV dims, Chief Executive Officer Anthony Wood says Roku is poised to keep capitalizing on the boom in streaming video. It's an independent player that can work well with all the entrants, he says, including new services from Disney and Apple and forthcoming ones from AT&T and Comcast. "It's satisfying to see the world be all in on streaming," says Wood. "That's nothing but excellent for Roku."
Many investors on Wall Street agree: The company's stock is up more than 300% this year, and Roku is valued at over $17 billion. Having built the dominant box, Roku is under siege from companies that recognize the value of its business model. Google sells a competing smart TV operating system. Samsung sells more than a dozen smart TVs that don't use Roku's operating system. Comcast is giving its internet subscribers a free streaming box. AT&T is offering a box for its customers. Apple is investing billions in streaming shows designed in part to strengthen the appeal of its hardware. But Roku's biggest challenger is Amazon.com, which is vying for tie-in deals for its Fire TV with smart TV manufacturers and battling for supremacy in international markets. In September it announced a major expansion in Europe, where Roku is less dominant.
Many investors on Wall Street agree: The company's stock is up more than 300% this year, and Roku is valued at over $17 billion. Having built the dominant box, Roku is under siege from companies that recognize the value of its business model. Google sells a competing smart TV operating system. Samsung sells more than a dozen smart TVs that don't use Roku's operating system. Comcast is giving its internet subscribers a free streaming box. AT&T is offering a box for its customers. Apple is investing billions in streaming shows designed in part to strengthen the appeal of its hardware. But Roku's biggest challenger is Amazon.com, which is vying for tie-in deals for its Fire TV with smart TV manufacturers and battling for supremacy in international markets. In September it announced a major expansion in Europe, where Roku is less dominant.
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Roku isn't trying in Europe. Or at least the UK.
Roku seems content to let NowTV lease Roku boxes to customers.
The BBC iPlayer doesn't support recent Rokus.
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Well, as a dumbass that shorted Roku around $60, let me disagree. The question really comes down to do consumers want a second smart TV after the first one dies or can no longer play the programming they want.
If not, then the stick market will win over anything else ultimately. What is Roku’s differentiator? To me, it is a complete pain in the ass (I have 3-4 of them); I can’t automate it because it is based on an interactive format and independent apps. This makes me prefer an alternative t
Re: Nah (Score:2)
Roku's value for me is that I can use their players to use the comcast streaming app instead of paying $10 a month for a cable box. That really adds up
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Is there an alternative that better lends itself to automation? From what I have seen, Roku has the best automation by far, with a rich REST API that allows querying the apps installed, querying the app currently running, retrieving app icons for use in third-party apps, and sending any remote-control or keyboard command over IP
Apple TV and Android TV don't even publish their remote-control-over-IP API.
Once you are in a Roku app, it's less clear what you might could do other than the remote-control command
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Nobody in the world outside of computer geeks cares about automation.
They want a box of some sort they can plug into their TV and watch stuff the TV cannot normally give them. They don't even need the box if there was a "roku app" they could install that goves them the exact same content as other apps, but in 1 place, they'd go for it too.
I can't see where they get the money from, but then, that applies to so many tech startup companies in the US that are "worth" billions. I image their plan is basically "g
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My wife does. She wants a button to be able to press to watch the next episode of the last show we watched. Same thing we have playing music on smart platforms as well as dumb. (I just want the lighting to match the mood of the show...)
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This is often up to the streaming service itself. Ie, Hulu brings up the next episode of what you watched last as an option on the default page; Netflix has the "continue watching" list, and so forth.
Re:Nah (Score:5, Insightful)
Roku is independent of streaming services, mostly (they recently have their own free streaming service with medicore movies). Apple TV is highly geared towards moves from iTunes. Google pushes their stuff presumably, but when I tried Chromecast the major drawback was that it had no remote control - it is amazingly clumsy to use a smartphone or tablet as a remote, and I don't know if they have a fuller featured device. Roku has been doing this essentially the longest (if you don't count Apple's early offering that few people bought and the company didn't support). It has the most channels for it, though this is a minor point unless you have a need for one of those obscure ones.
There's no real value-add to Roku because it's the leader, thus the default choice. It's up to the competition to figure out how to beat it at the game, and to be honest none of them have a must-have feature; unless you have a ton of content you purchased from iTunes or Google Play.
If your smart TV stops streaming but otherwise works, it would be dumb to buy a new TV rather than a $50 streaming device.
Automation could be nice, but this is sort of a niche market.
Re: Nah (Score:2)
Maybe your experience is different from mine. I love using my smartphone to browse what to watch. One can watch like say a child whilst you browse for something to watch later without interrupting their program.
Of course this does depend on the app and here is where Netflix really shines. Prime recently opened up on Chromecast as well but isn't quite so nice to use, but it's still better than their PS4 interface or TV stick.
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Browsing maybe, but using it as a remote control - pausing, rewinding, volume, etc - is annoying. The phone is off and locked because you almost always set them up to auto-lock after a time. Then you want to pause, you fiddle around for the phone, grab it out of your pocket, swipe the thumb, it tells you that this time you have to enter your PIN, you do that, look around for the pause button, and touch. Then you need to rewind because that all took 20 seconds.
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With Roku, you can do either - it has a smartphone app, but the physical remote is still there, and really well-designed (simple and comfortable).
Also, unlike a smartphone, their remote can control volume on the TV itself, and power it on/off.
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What beats a Roku is an Nvidia Shield TV Pro. I switched when I discovered the Roku Premiere+ couldn't play 4K rips from my NAS without skipping. The Roku is a good Internet video player but a not so good local network player.
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So, you're just using Google's Android TV, as mentioned above.
Totally agreed it is far superior, but the cost/availability is a total pain in the ass.
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I have both a Roku Ultra and a Shield TV. Some things are better in one, some in the other.
An example is the NetFlix app. The NetFlix app on the Roku used to "autoroll" (autoplay) shit when you went into it to look at the details, and the Shield TV did not. That meant the Shield was "better" and less annoying for NetFlix (although in general the NetFlix app on all platforms has become a steaming pile of dogshit -- it was far better half-a-decade ago before the wet-behind-the-ear millenial asswipes starte
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Re: Nah (Score:3)
Its the apps. When a new service like Disney+ or ATT TV, or Movies Anywhere, or anything else releases, the developers have to pick platforms. Most smartTVs only do hulu, netflix, maybe Amazon Video. Its hard to get new apps. That leaves Roku, FireTv (essentially an android app) and sometimes, but rarely either an appleTV app or PS4 app.
FireTV is mostly android. You can even sideload APKs. So its going to survive because someone like me is immune to appstore politics deleting an app. I can always side-load
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If this is anything like TiVo, there will be many competitors, all of which have totally terrible implementations. Cable companies for some reason were insistent that they had to have a DVR and yet seemingly outsourced the work to the cheapest bid. Part of the difference may have been that TiVo was designed to make customers happy, whereas the competition from the cable industry designed their DVRs to make Hollywood happy. For Roku, it's hard to really improve on it other than adding extra memory for tho
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Toshiba is already making TVs with built in Fire TV streaming. So is Best Buy's house brand Insignia, but those appear to be rebranded Toshiba sets. Grundig makes TVs with Fire TV built in under the Grundig and JVC brands; they are not sold in the US. (Grundig's own brand has no presence in the US, and the JVC brand is licensed to another company here.)
Roku has more TV partners. TVs with Roku built in are available from Sharp, TCL, Westinghouse, and Hisense. Sharp TVs in the Americas are made by Hisense and
Almsot got a Roku man years ago (Score:1)
until I read you have to sign up/call/CC first before you have to use the device you just bought. Stuck to my old htpc and then got Nvidia Shield.
Re:Almsot got a Roku man years ago (Score:4, Informative)
until I read you have to sign up/call/CC first before you have to use the device you just bought. Stuck to my old htpc and then got Nvidia Shield.
You must have heard wrong. I just log in with the service I already subscribe to. I've never given Roku any of my payment info.
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Roku did want a CC when I first got one, but it's only used when you purchase something. You can sign up with a burner pre-paid card. Generally it's only used when you use their paid movie/tv service (FandangoNow but in the past was Vudu). Ignore it and it's fine. When I got a replacement I used my existing account, so I don't know if you can skip the CC these days.
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You can do this, but you don't have to. Roku sells content directly. You only have to give them your CC if you want to avail yourself of their non-free content. Otherwise, you can just download the channels for the services you already subscribe to and login to each channel.
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I actually setup their Roku Smart Soundbar and am rather impressed! It's a multi-driver (4 IIRC) speaker array with an Ultra/Ultra+ streaming hw built-in. D
Re:Almsot got a Roku man years ago (Score:4, Informative)
I've never given Roku a credit card number. You are completely mistaken that this is a requirement. Different channels may require payment, like netflix but none of that is processed through Roku.
The company figured out the streaming platform early on, they provide an open platform for everyone else to use. They make money on Ad's displayed on the home screen (single ad next to the channel listing, content they offer which costs money, and by selling viewer data.
If they ever try to do something stupid like charge to use the Roku they will be dropped like a rock by most of their users and I think the company is cognizant of this.
Re: Almsot got a Roku man years ago (Score:4, Insightful)
You can use your Roku account to sign up for pay services and theyâ(TM)ll combine them all into one payment, or you can sign into your existing accounts and they donâ(TM)t see it. Itâ(TM)s totally up to you.
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By the way -- the above comment was posted from an iPhone from the mobile slashdot interface, so I'm not taking the rap for the fucked-up apostrophes.
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It was on the TCL tv with Roku that I owned for about two hours this summer before I took it back to the store. It simply refused to work until you set up a login and gave it a credit card number or PayPal account. The workarounds suggested online was to set up a dummy PayPal account to activate the TV, then cancel it right away.
But fuuuck that. Returned that POS and bought an LG for $50 more, which has never
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There is trick to get Roku device to work without signing in or even registering an account. In any case, it's far better having to sign into Roku than into Google. Google already has way too much of private information.
Roku is by far the best (Score:2)
I have a "smart" TV. I had to buy a Roku box for it because the apps on the TV kept crashing and eventually weren't supported any more. What a waste of money. Roku is the least tied to any big company, therefore the least likely to want to do anti-competitive things. We all win by keeping the Roku a viable device in the market place. Of all the devices I have used, Roku seems to be the best.
One thing that did hack me off with Roku is that they had a hidden menu to limit the bandwidth used by it. This was g
Re:Roku is by far the best (Score:4, Interesting)
I have a "smart" TV. I had to buy a Roku box for it because the apps on the TV kept crashing and eventually weren't supported any more. What a waste of money. Roku is the least tied to any big company, therefore the least likely to want to do anti-competitive things.
Roku is malware.
https://docs.roku.com/publishe... [roku.com]
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I have a "smart" TV. I had to buy a Roku box for it because the apps on the TV kept crashing and eventually weren't supported any more. What a waste of money.
What you discovered was that smart TVs tend to turn into Roku's basilisk. A smart TV has apps that are frozen in the time of manufacture, perhaps a year before you even bought the set, while you can at any time thereafter have the latest streaming box with the latest upgraded software, reminding you how you should have done it in the first place.
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Except for Google's Android TV, or Amazon's FireTV, which both use Android as a base and have apps as actively updated as they are on phones. Plus the larger app eco system is nice, too.
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"as actively updated as they are on phones"... so a few years later then, rather then near instant obsolescence.
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I don't know by what measure you could consider Roku more open than an Android TV box, including Fire TV.
I can install hundreds of thousands of apps on my Fire TV because you can install almost any Android app on it right through the browser. This includes of course many "grey market" apps.
Roku's app store on the other hand is an entirely closed ecosystem.
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What would you do with an app on a TV? If the interface is your remote control then it's pretty painful to use. At least your phone or tablet have a touchscreen. Roku had some games when I first got it, which I thought was neat at first but them 5 minutes later I never bothered again. And if you're getting apps then you probably have to register and get a Google or Amazon account to go with it.
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What would you do with an app on a TV?
Kodi, for watching content you've got stored on your LAN.
Big dealbreaker for me with Roku was that it's not really good if you're a total cheapskate and don't want to pay for anything other than the hardware. You can buy a Fire Stick (they're really cheap on Black Friday), sideload Kodi, and call it a day. I get that this probably doesn't matter to people who have a super reliable broadband provider and subscribe to every streaming service under the sun. But when the rent comes first and Spectrum or noth
Re: Roku is by far the best (Score:2)
Yea for a while that was a hassle. I had limited bandwidth and I hated buffering my video because the kids were in another room watching a prepubescent youtuber, PrestonPlayz, stream 4k minecraft shit. The goddamn game looks like 4bit Atari 2600. Why the fuck do they film it in 4k??? 280p and 16 colors is all that shit needs.
Because it's effort to NOT do it. (Score:2)
Why the fuck do they film [PrestonPlayz] in 4k??? 280p and 16 colors is all that shit needs.
Because it takes extra effort and knowledge to NOT film it in 4k. Not to mention that the developer doesn't see how it causes problems to users without hysterical bandwidth.
Reminds me of the years of World Wide Wait, when web developers had a local disk and a fast machine, so they did all this fancy stuff that looked good to them. But once it went live - on the Internet with slow last-mile feeds, it crawled.
It's st
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I hated buffering my video because the kids were in another room watching a prepubescent youtuber, PrestonPlayz
Dude's in his early 20s. Now I see how that "ok boomer" meme got traction...
(Don't get me wrong, I think it's weird as all get out that anyone puts professional YouTuber on their resume, but whatever sinks their submarine, I guess)
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It's the way of things; interfaces get made simpler because someone somewhere complained about it. Just look at Windows, every release has fewer customization options. I suspect some people complained about lousy streaming quality when they probably just had set up the lowest bandwidth setting by mistake.
Categorizing the market (Score:2)
IMHO
* People that don't know, or care to know, better use SmartTVs
* Apple people will buy AppleTV and pay too much.
* People trying to save a buck that don't have a SmartTV buy Amazon devices and get what they pay for.
* People looking for a good device for the money buy a Roku device.
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Agreed but the average consumer isn't side loading.
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I don't know about that. Since FireTVs blew up in the mundane consciousness, I don't think I've seen any yet that don't have Kodi added. Anecdotal, sure, but if my 64 year old muggle mother isn't the "average consumer" then somebody's metrics are way off.
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And there are some jail breaks for it, if you look around.
My only two complaints; the remote doesn't have a mute button, and it would be nice to run a kodi app to connect to my media box.
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and it would be nice to run a kodi app to connect to my media box.
Yes Kodi support would be nice. The Roku does support lan-casting using the standard DLNA but the official DLNA-supporting apps are terrible and combined with the very limited file format and codec support of the Roku itself, make it far more trouble than its worth (nobody wants to re-encode videos just for Roku support)
I am running Plex on a Win7 box to cast at my Roku because it does realtime transcoding. This is ideal for stuff I already have but still doesnt offer the best of what Kodi support would
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There's Jellyfin - the response to Emby and Plex. Not sure if it does quite what you want WRT Kodi streaming, but its a lot more open.
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I am running Plex on a Win7 box to cast at my Roku because it does realtime transcoding.
And the power your transcoding rig consumes probably could've paid for a Fire Stick.
I use a tiny Intel NUC DN2820FYKH as my media server. It doesn't have to transcode anything, so a low powered CPU is just fine.
Re: Categorizing the market (Score:2)
Yep. I have a firetv just for sideloading some streaming apps to watch some star trek i am no paying cbs $8/mo for. But i also have a roku ultra in another room for the remote finder (kids suck losing it). I like them both for completely different reasons. Firetv is basically android.
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https://blog.roku.com/develope... [roku.com]
Jellyfin roku app shows that as a prereq to install, since they aren't anywhere near an official store.
How is an Apple TV "too much" (Score:2)
Apple people will buy AppleTV and pay too much.
But AppleTV has a far larger selection of apps, and games... and these days it can use a PS4 or Xbox controller you probably already had laying around anyway.
It provides a lot more value than a Roku, and doesn't cost that much more...
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Apple people will buy AppleTV and pay too much.
But AppleTV has a far larger selection of apps, and games... and these days it can use a PS4 or Xbox controller you probably already had laying around anyway.
It provides a lot more value than a Roku, and doesn't cost that much more...
give your source. a simple online search will show roku wins hands down.
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People looking for a good device for the money buy a Roku device.
Roku is malware. This hardware is not even an option.
https://docs.roku.com/publishe... [roku.com]
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You are going to have to be more specific.
Samsung's Non Roku TV (Score:3)
>Samsung sells more than a dozen smart TVs that don't use Roku's operating system.
But the Samsung smart TV features are no fun to use and (I suspect) like everyone else, we turned that crap off and plugged in a Roku.
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About the only other group not doing that are the ones who's buddy told them they can jailbreak and side-l
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I suspect there's a bit of a market when someone goes to the store and complains that Netflix stopped working on their TV and they're looking for a replacement and the assistant says in a hushed tone, "you could try one of these Rokus and save your self hundreds of dollars".
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My smart TV apps were so poorly written that they would randomly freeze so hard you had to unplug the TV and plug it back in to get the TV back to working. Seriously. It's a Vizio.
I freaking ripped them a new one on Amazon reviews. They pulled the product from Amazon so all the negative reviews just disappeared.
TV works fine with a Roku.
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Oh, and the remote controls are simpler on the Roku. Even my dumb TV has a wierdly complicated remote control (probably because it's dumb and they wanted to put every possible feature onto a separate button). I suspect you could give the Roku to and elderly relative and they'd figure out it pretty easily and not be calling you to help them find Matlock.
They want $75 for any device past 3. (Score:2)
There's multiple accounts of Roku demanding $75 to activate any device after the third, at an account level.
It's preventing me from ever wanting to do business with them again.
Anyone know if they've removed that 'requirement' to activate their products going forward?
Ryan Fenton
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Ah - nevermind - apparently, it was folks on various channels getting scammed...
https://clark.com/technology/r... [clark.com]
Basically typosquatting folks on activation page look-alikes.
In which case, more folks need to be aware of the scam, and those scams shut down.
Ryan Fenton
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nothing to worry about (Score:2)
I doubt roku has anything to worry about. The last few months a lot of users have been finding their smart tv's and home theaters are losing major streaming services because of drm updates and other reasons. streaming boxes like roku has been hit too but it is generally cheaper just to replace a streaming box than a tv. You will find most tech forums will also recommend streaming boxes and sticks too for the very same reason
$49.99 Stick isn't the Cheapest Roku (Score:2)
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True. I had to get a replacement for mine recently and looked at it because I didn't need 4K. However it also has a simplified wifi, whereas the Streaming Stick+ had a MIMO (to get through a floor) with 802.11ac (to avoid all the condo neighbors cluttering up the 2.4g space).
All they need... (Score:2)
It's all smoke and mirrors... (Score:3)
...designed to separate a fool from his personal information. That goes for Apple, Google, Samsung, Amazon, and doubly so for Roku. Fuck them all.
There is no reason we readers of Slashdot (mainly programmers or at the very least intelligent and tech-savvy folks) should not drop $100, pick up a Raspberry Pi and the few necessary accessories, custom-build a streaming box to our personal preference, and forever remain 100% free of the bullshit spyware that is inescapable on all of these devices.
Perhaps I'm only one of the few who despises these unscrupulous middlemen, but I refuse to play their ridiculous game.
Dominant??? Where??? (Score:2)
I don't know by what measure Roku could possibly be considered dominant.
The only person I know who owns a Roku is my ~ 70 year old aunt. Everyone else I know who has cut the cord (dozens upon dozens of co-workers) have either a Chromecast, a Fire Stick, a no-name Android box, or an Apple TV. I don't know anyone who uses Roku, they died off a long time ago.
Their current play seems to be betting everything on being bundled in crappy off-brand TV sets that don't even have enough CPU to run the software.
Re: Dominant??? Where??? (Score:2)
And if brunes69 doesn't know a person, then they do not exist.
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Pretty obvious you don't know many people.
My Roku doesn't work with my new TV (Score:2)
I have a Roku Ultra that I bought a few months ago. I bought it because we cut cable, and the older Samsung TV in my bedroom was not a smart TV, so I needed something for my streaming services. A month later, that TV died so I had to buy a new TV. The new TV is also a Samsung, but 4K and smart, so I didn't need the Roku to use my streaming services anymore, until Disney+ launched. I tried to hook the Roku up to my TV, and it recognized it ONCE. I was able to watch the first episode of The Mandalorian. The f
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This is, unfortunately, a common problem with the support department at Roku. They forgot to ask you if your audio was setup as stereo or Dolby 5.1, because it can affect the I.P. v6 of your wireless HDMI component signal.
On the way out (Score:1)
Roku units have longevity and more value (Score:3)
We had our first Roku stick for about 5 years when it got too clunky to use. At that point, our Samsung dumbass home theater devices had EOL streaming apps and would no longer get updates. The fix? A new Roku for $40ish.
Only criticism to Roku is they are getting away from simplicity a bit lately. I was trying to search for a show with the voice button which was usually operated by pressing the button and speaking the title of the show. Now it takes voice commands, so it's press the button "search for (insert show here)." I'm hoping this isn't a trend of things to come and they keep it elegant and simple, but ... we all know how that shit goes.
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I want to see a return to "dumb" TV's, where all the "smart" features are handled by third-party boxes. We could see the price of TV's drop by $100 or more.
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I use a Shield. (Score:3)
I've had a few bugs with it: my first controller that I used with it wasn't recognized properly by RetroArch and the select and Z/L2 buttons wouldn't work. That was an Amazon Basics 360 controller knockoff, so I just swapped it out for my actual 360 controller which worked like a charm. Second bug: the Live Channels app that reads whatever your TV tuner passes refuses to play audio. I've more or less figured out it's due to the setup I'm using -- apparently the dumb (read: not smart) monitor I have hooked it up to it doesn't decode the format it's putting out, nor do the analog speakers I'm duping from the HDMI connection. Apparently there are workarounds with other apps or I could just get a USB speaker that supports decoding the format instead of an analog one... but at the moment it doesn't matter enough to me, I only pick up a couple channels anyway.
All this cost me a bit over $200 (Shield was $70 secondhand from a friend, monitor was about $80 on sale, TV tuner was about $50, antenna was about $20, rest was mostly stuff I already had), and the fact that I can switch from streaming off my Emby server to playing Super Smash Bros and other stuff on it with my brother like we used to back in the late 90s/early 2000s makes it easily worth more than that to me.