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A Celebration of Isaac Asimov (twitter.com) 145

Stephen Colbert: Isaac Asimov would have been 100 today. He published in every category of the Dewey Decimal system. After reading him your mind works better. Too many great quotes. Here's one: "Never let your sense of morals get in the way of doing what's right." Here's another: "It pays to be obvious, especially if you have a reputation for subtlety." In 1967, Asimov talked about what life with robots might be like in the future. "I wonder if we will make robots so much like men and men so much like robots that eventually we'll lose the distinction altogether." (A short BBC interview on it.)

Asimov's commentary on society: "The saddest aspect of life right now is that science gathers knowledge faster than society gathers wisdom."

"There are no nations! There is only humanity. And if we don't come to understand that right soon, there will be no nations, because there will be no humanity."

"There's no way I can single-handedly save the world or, perhaps, even make a perceptible difference -- but how ashamed I would be to let a day pass without making one more effort."
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A Celebration of Isaac Asimov

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  • A big regret of mine (Score:5, Interesting)

    by war4peace ( 1628283 ) on Thursday January 02, 2020 @10:39AM (#59578652)

    I deeply regret not having been able to meet Isaac Asimov face-to-face. I was too young and too far away when he passed away.

  • Just look at the Foundation series or The Last Question/Answer [scifi-review.net].

  • by Ecuador ( 740021 ) on Thursday January 02, 2020 @10:45AM (#59578670) Homepage

    Why include a well known urban legend (which he himself had denied) when there are numerous impressive actual facts you could use for this great person? None of his books were classified as Philosophy (100 in the DDC), but he is still probably the only author having published in 9 out of 10 categories - at least with books of note.
    Some of my first non-fiction books from when I was a kid (astronomy related) were Asimov's, and I later found out his contribution to fiction was even more impressive. I won't add any more quotes here, but my signature is from the Foundation series.

    • Yeah, well, the quote is a bit short. It should be "Initiating violence is the last resort of the incompetent." Pretty sure Asimov would have appreciated someone violently interfering with someone else kicking the shit out of him.
      • Yeah, well, the quote is a bit short. It should be "Initiating violence is the last resort of the incompetent." Pretty sure Asimov would have appreciated someone violently interfering with someone else kicking the shit out of him.

        Yep. platitudes like Asimov's are possible because big un-PC men with guns stand ready to initiate violence when necessary.

    • by Registered Coward v2 ( 447531 ) on Thursday January 02, 2020 @11:20AM (#59578814)

      Why include a well known urban legend (which he himself had denied) when there are numerous impressive actual facts you could use for this great person? None of his books were classified as Philosophy (100 in the DDC), but he is still probably the only author having published in 9 out of 10 categories - at least with books of note. Some of my first non-fiction books from when I was a kid (astronomy related) were Asimov's, and I later found out his contribution to fiction was even more impressive. I won't add any more quotes here, but my signature is from the Foundation series.

      My thoughts exactly. He wrote across a wide variety of genres, sometimes humorous, other time serious but always worth reading. His fiction books were great, but his non-fiction ones were truly amazing. He could explain concepts in a way that made them understandable, as well as some of the history and back stories as well. My local library had a good selection of his books, and I devoured them. What I found impressive was he often only wrote one draft, on a manual typewriter.

      • He often had three typewriters. Each had a different book in them. He'd swivel between them, writing a bit in this book and a bit in that book. He was amazing and remains as my favorite author. I somewhat modeled my writing style after him. I definitely pride myself in my ability to - like Asimov - explain complicated subjects in simple terms that anyone could understand without talking down to people. One of my great regrets in life is that I never got to meet him.

        • I definitely pride myself in my ability to - like Asimov - explain complicated subjects in simple terms that anyone could understand without talking down to people.

          What? I'm sorry, but I don't understand what you are saying here.

    • by Aristos Mazer ( 181252 ) on Thursday January 02, 2020 @11:28AM (#59578864)
      Found this citation on the web: His works have been published in all ten major categories of the Dewey Decimal System (although his only work in the 100s—which covers philosophy and psychology—was a foreword for The Humanist Way).
    • "at least with books of note"

      Remember to lift with your legs when you move goalposts.

      Asimov had short works published in psychology, but not entire books. However, Colbert's claim was not that Asimov had published entire books in all categories, just that he had published.

      • I am sorry, what book, even small, had he published in category 100? And a preface on somebody else's book does not count. It is obvious that Asimov was not trying to go for the record or something, why keep pushing with that "all 10 categories" BS.
        My "of note" comment was about the 9 out of 10 categories, to avoid someone pointing out the X person also published so many categories and then point to self published/insignificant works.

        • See "Essays by Isaac Asimov about psychology" asimovonline.com/oldsite/Essays/psychology.html

          "what book"
          Once again you have inserted "book" which was not in the original claim.

          "a preface on somebody else's book does not count"
          In addition, you are falsely claiming that I was referring to prefaces.

    • by Shotgun ( 30919 )

      As you get older, one of the things you learn is that we're all incompetent to some point. At least responding to violence with overwhelming violence and righteous indignation is both effective and expedient.

  • i have heard a lot about the negatives of the famous 3 laws. but no one has offered better. and the most maddenly hard to describe is a method to determine Harm.
    • by Aristos Mazer ( 181252 ) on Thursday January 02, 2020 @11:02AM (#59578716)
      Asimov himself was very negative on the three laws of robotics. He considered them a starting point for discussion of ethics, not the endpoint. See âoeBicentennial Manâ among many other stories.
      • In fact, most of his Robot short stories were about the breakdown of the laws. For example, someone orders a robot to go somewhere but going there would destroy the robot. It winds up perpetually running in circles around the danger zone - pushed forward by the Second Law to obey the command but pushed back by the Third Law to preserve itself. (IIRC, the only way to snap the robot out of that was to introduce a First Law issue by putting a human life at risk.)

    • i have heard a lot about the negatives of the famous 3 laws

      Including significant parts of Asimovs writing, i hope...
      Although proabably a serious proposition initially, in his books the laws are just as much a vehicle to explore the limits and bizarre implications of rule systems.

      My favourite weakness is that a sufficiently capable robot would not really be allowed to focus on anything but protecting random humans from harm. So already by the first law you've basically put a cap on rewards for innovation.

      • Exactly. The laws are a vehicle for story telling about how things can go terrible wrong if you're relying on something so fraught for safety and especially for morality (and that lends some stories a bit of a parable feel).

        All of the I Robot stories are about failures of the laws.
      • by stwrtpj ( 518864 )

        Which is precisely why the three laws are meant to describe only in very broad terms under what rules robots should operate. There has to be more nuance and clarification as to what the words mean. Take the first law: "A robot shall not harm a human being, nor through inaction, allow a human being to come to harm." If the robot is not constrained in some way to a given radius -- say, the range of its sensory inputs -- then it could possibly do as you said and spend its time seeking out people to rescue.

        F

        • There was a SF story with similar laws, and as the AI approached transcendence, the developer ordered it to never study how the human brain or consciousness worked, lest it decide to push all humanity into a perpetual state of neural bliss.

    • by nagora ( 177841 )

      The three laws are supposed to represent the rules for a perfect slave. Then he shows that this "perfect" is neither good enough nor complete. In a sense it's Godel's Theorem applied to AI - contradictions are not just a bug that can be fixed, they're actually inevitable.

    • but no one has offered better

      Better for what? What are the famous 3 laws for?

      IMHO the laws are useful for (and only for) pointing out the senseless and difficulties of having such laws, for story purposes. In that regard, yeah, maybe they're pretty good.

      But if you're talking about robots rather than writing stories, then the laws are easy to improve them: delete all 3, replacing them with this: "A robot should serve the interests of its owner." That's it. If you want a law for robots, that law is all you

      • But if you're talking about robots rather than writing stories, then the laws are easy to improve them: delete all 3, replacing them with this: "A robot should serve the interests of its owner."

        And that's how you end up with murder-bots. Think of Ash from Alien. "All other priorities rescinded."

        • In Asimov's universe, the rules were built in from the beginning, and as AI got better and better, it became hopelessly intertwined with the AI itself, making removal all but impossible without starting over.

          • by cusco ( 717999 )

            The positronic brain was built around them, IIRC. (But it's been a long time so I may not.)

      • by stwrtpj ( 518864 )
        The problem is, if murdering one's perceived enemies is in the robot owner's best interest, that makes all robots a potential threat. The more I think about it, the more I wonder if the three laws are more meant to appease the masses of humans. That way, a human who is walking down the street can safely ignore the robot walking the other way because he's reasonably sure the robot won't strike him dead as he passes.
    • by RobinH ( 124750 )

      For the foreseeable future we won't have truly intelligent robots. If you have a robot that's not intelligent, then you as the owner are responsible for its uses and actions (just like you're responsible for the actions of your dog), and the manufacturer will be liable for defects due to its design (just like a car). I work on robots in factories. There are no decisions where a robot has to weigh the morality of killing 2 children or 3 adults because we design systems from the ground up to be safe for hu

      • They will also gain protection under the law as sentient beings ("people"), and be part of society. As such, would you be allowed to go into their brains and hard-code 3 rules in there? I doubt it.

        Forcibly write things directly to their "brains", no, but childhood education of humans is very much concerned with trying to write the Three Laws of Humanity (so to speak) into human children. When that process fails, we get what we call a sociopath or psychopath.

        While there may be some innate capacity for empathy in human wetware, the orphans of Romania have conclusively demonstrated that it must be activated at an extremely young age. If we fail to implement a capacity for empathy in our sapient AIs, w

        • I always figured we developed a conscience through natural selection. Groups of people working together were more successful. Why wouldn't the same supply to AIs?
  • More than fiction (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Lije Baley ( 88936 ) on Thursday January 02, 2020 @10:57AM (#59578696)

    He was very good at writing about science for popular consumption too, and even his "Guide to the Bible" is fascinating. I wish he was still around to write about newer developments. Some of the newer writers may be smart, but seem a bit witless by comparison. I realize I am biased though...

    • by weilawei ( 897823 ) on Thursday January 02, 2020 @11:00AM (#59578702)

      I could probably choose a smarter person from history, but I'd be hard-pressed to choose someone wiser.

      • by Registered Coward v2 ( 447531 ) on Thursday January 02, 2020 @11:27AM (#59578854)

        I could probably choose a smarter person from history, but I'd be hard-pressed to choose someone wiser.

        What I found amazing was his range of knowledge and ability to explain things clearly.

  • ... but these are unremarkable platitudes.

    And he didn't just die, so I can say this without being a boor.

    • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

      by Anonymous Coward

      You have a very short Buxton Index [utexas.edu], which is why you perceive it as a platitude rather than something relevant.

      Nothing wrong with that, but most people have very short indices, and you're probably hanging around the wrong kind of people on Slashdot if forward-thinking isn't your deal.

      • You have a very short Buxton Index [utexas.edu], which is why you perceive it as a platitude rather than something relevant.

        Nothing wrong with that, but most people have very short indices, and you're probably hanging around the wrong kind of people on Slashdot if forward-thinking isn't your deal.

        Or ... you could be wrong. Check your hermetic seal.

  • by willoughby ( 1367773 ) on Thursday January 02, 2020 @11:48AM (#59578964)

    I stole a copy of "Why a Slide Rule Works" by Asimov from the school library and was ahead of my math class the next year working with exponents & logarithms. Asimov could explain well, which makes his non-fiction science books a treat. That book disappeared in the decades since and I've never seen another copy.
     

  • Cult of Ignorance (Score:5, Insightful)

    by drjoe1e6 ( 461358 ) on Thursday January 02, 2020 @11:49AM (#59578970)

    Foundation is an all-time classic.
    My favorite quote of his came from a column in Newsweek, (21 January 1980).

    There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there always has been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."

    Forty years later, it's truer than ever.

    • by joe_frisch ( 1366229 ) on Thursday January 02, 2020 @11:59AM (#59578992)

      When Asimov wrote Foundation, he was talking about the fall of Rome. Now it seems all too relevant to the modern world.

      I remember reading it as a child and thinking how unrealistic it was that a society would abandon nuclear power - it just didn't make sense.

      • If I remember the story correctly, they didn't abandon it, they just lost the knowledge to build new ones and repair existing ones. They were passed through generations of maintenance families until the power plant died.

        • I seem to remember them celebrating converting a nuke plant to natural gas or something, but I may be mis-remembering, it was a LONG time ago when I read it

    • These days it's often "My ignorance is BETTER than your knowledge".
    • Another excerpt from that "Cult of Ignorance" article he wrote:

      There are 200 million Americans who have inhabited schoolrooms at some time in their lives and who will admit that they know how to read (provided you promise not to use their names and shame them before their neighbors), but most decent periodicals believe they are doing amazingly well if they have circulations of half a million. It may be that only 1 per cent–or lessof American make a stab at exercising their right to know. And if they t

      • New York Times reports that dozens of scientific studies show no link and it's regarded by anti-vaxxers as "propaganda for Big Pharma."

        If Big Pharma hadn't indulged in actual propaganda, with the aid of a complicit media, it would be a lot harder for people to believe the autism crap. But when they consistently lie about every failure, because of money, it's not much of a leap to assume they're lying again, if you're the ignorant sort who can't read a journal article. (Sci-Hub pierces all paywalls, so no excuses.) In certain respects, it's the rational response, although the next step should be to actually read journal articles.

  • by iroll ( 717924 ) on Thursday January 02, 2020 @01:12PM (#59579288) Homepage

    I used to always check the 2nd hand store bookshelves for copies of Understanding Physics, which has been out of print for a long time. Even until recently, a good used copy was outrageously expensive online, but I think the sheer scale of the Amazon marketplace has brought down the price (looks like you can get one for under $10 now, when used copies used to be almost $100).

    This is without a doubt my favorite layman's read for physics and chemistry; it's a massive journey from the Aristotle to Planck, written like a narrative of science history and it completely drew me in. I taught physics and chemistry for several years and it was a huge influence on me, both in leading me to that career and in shaping how I approached it.

  • by Sqreater ( 895148 ) on Thursday January 02, 2020 @01:51PM (#59579438)
    He informed a lot of my science Foundation. However, his robot stories, while very entertaining, never really felt right somehow and I came to understand why later. A thing cannot make an artifact as complex as itself. Not in this universe anyway. If you can make something as complex as yourself, you can make something at least infinitesimally more complex and then you have bootstrapping, a race to infinite complexity by construction. Besides, a thing cannot completely know itself from the inside. The process is part of what must be understood. He never explained how his robots would be able to have three laws in the first place. You can write them, but how do you implement them? How do you create the judgement they would require? If you can do that, then you have something that would be free to completely ignore the laws, just as humans do.
    • by Brain-Fu ( 1274756 ) on Thursday January 02, 2020 @03:24PM (#59579806) Homepage Journal

      A thing cannot make an artifact as complex as itself.

      You have not proven that statement, nor have you offered evidence or argument of any kind. Furthermore, I will give you a counter example: living creatures breed, thus creating things that are as complex as themselves.

      If you can make something as complex as yourself, you can make something at least infinitesimally more complex

      Another arbitrary pronouncement without evidence or argument. This is reminiscent of religious thinking, rather than scientific thinking. Though, in this case, the consequent seems true without any dependence on the antecedent. An example to follow...

      and then you have bootstrapping, a race to infinite complexity

      Sounds a bit like evolution. More complex life arose from less complex life through a bootstrapped process of breeding with mutation and then natural selection. Maybe in this case there was no goal of increasing complexity (nor goal-orientation of any kind), but the net effect has been the same. At least so far.

      • by sinij ( 911942 )

        A thing cannot make an artifact as complex as itself.

        You have not proven that statement, nor have you offered evidence or argument of any kind.

        Complex life evolved from a single cell organisms. So at least for some definitions of "make" this is demonstrably possible.

      • by cusco ( 717999 )

        I've heard that argument before, uttered by Creationists as a "proof" against evolution. It's generally coupled with some utterly bizarre misunderstanding of the function of non-coding ("junk") DNA.

    • The Three Laws have a number of logical weaknesses, both from a theoretical and practical point of view. They were not intended to taken seriously as a practical machine ethical system. What they were intended to accomplish was to allow Asimov to write new stories about morality around robots, which would not devolve into the boring rut about why the robots do not just run amok and kill all the humans (like robots are "supposed" to do).

      ...you can make something at least infinitesimally more complex and then you have bootstrapping, a race to infinite complexity by construction.

      Given sufficient time and sufficient space, perhaps it is true that a

    • A thing cannot make an artifact as complex as itself.

      Even if your axiomatic statement was true (which I'm not convinced it is), there is an easy way around: the old divide et impera. In this case, you put together a group of cooperating creators. None of them can create the whole artifact (or understand it as a gestalt), but each of them can create a simpler and smaller component piece of the greater whole. While individual pieces may not be as complex as their creator, when put together the target artifact can be as complex as you like.

      Look at a modern compl

    • A thing cannot make an artifact as complex as itself.

      Dogmatic. And wrong. And completely wrongheaded. Making, creating, is a process. The simplest of processes can have extraordinarily complex results once complete. The things implementing the process may themselves be simple or complex or both. That's irrelevant. It's the process that matters.

      The most salient example is evolution. The process is simple: survive, reproduce, with errors/randomness. The results are extraordinarily complex, and include humans, despite the simplicity of the process.

      An ea

    • by eriks ( 31863 )

      ...You can write them, but how do you implement them?

      While I agree that the "Three Laws of Robotics" probably won't ever happen, at least not as written... However, I can imagine a system of (human) ethics being encoded into an expert system as an element of the decision tree that a robot (in the distant future) might use to take (or not take) particular actions, so in that sense, it's not really that far-fetched.

      How do you create the judgement they would require? If you can do that, then you have something that would be free to completely ignore the laws, just as humans do.

      Which is (more or less) exactly what happened when Daneel invents the zeroth law, and is able to kill a human in order to "prevent harm to humanit

    • Okay, so you're a virgin.

  • I discovered Asimov in grade 6, during my very first Science Fiction obsession. I went on to read every piece of fiction he wrote I could find, and short stories, sci-fi, mystery and others, and started in on his non-fiction books later in high school.
    I was absolutely delighted to find his "History of Carbon" was one of the required textbooks for first year university chemistry - felt like having a favourite knowledgeable uncle helping me navigate the mysteries of organic chemistry.

  • by cusco ( 717999 ) <brian.bixby@gmail . c om> on Thursday January 02, 2020 @05:50PM (#59580410)

    I have a copy of his 1968 book 'The Promise of Space' on my bookshelf. So many of the predictions he made in that book were spot-on, such as cellular telephone networks with smart phones, the telecommunications revolution, the Internet, email, and social networks, but some of them were were very much a product of his time. Absolutely no one at the time ever imagined that 40 years later the US would be unable to put men in orbit, but instead would have to purchase seats on Russian spacecraft. No one thought that Apollo 17 would be the last time that anyone went beyond LEO for over half a century, or for that matter that the last three Apollo missions would be cancelled for no reason at all. SpaceX is finally getting to the point where he thought private space companies would be in the '90s, and while we finally have electric cars the self-driving aspect has turned out a lot harder than anyone thought.

    So it's very much a mixed bag. As he predicted, I can sit at home and very comfortably do my job, but unfortunately the only robots in common household use are Roombas.

  • by el borak ( 263323 ) on Thursday January 02, 2020 @06:23PM (#59580498)
    I loved both his science fiction and his popular science articles. But the guy was just so prolific! By the time he published Opus 200, I was almost half-way there, but he was publishing as fast as my limited budget would let me purchase. And I shamefully admit shoplifting The Sensuous Dirty Old Man from a local bookstore as I was too young (and too embarrassed) to purchase it.

    A personal favorite is Asimov's Biographical Encyclopedia of Science and Technology. It was Wikipedia (in a very narrow genre) before the web existed. I would pick it up to check on a specific scientist only to disappear down a chain of linked articles and not emerge until hours later.

    A brilliant man.

The key elements in human thinking are not numbers but labels of fuzzy sets. -- L. Zadeh

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