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Television Science

Why Fireworks Look Really Bad on Your Fancy TV (wired.co.uk) 137

As any seasoned TV watcher will tell you, firework displays don't translate well to television. From a report: In fact, they look terrible. The colors are washed out, the concussive boom of the explosion is dulled into a ridiculous pop, and they have an uncanny knack of looking like CGI. "It's a great torture test of the whole system," says Jeff Yurek of Nanosys, a manufacturer of quantum dot television displays. "There are two problems," explains Tim Brooksbank, a veteran of the audio-visual industry who studies how television displays and transmission work. "The fundamental problem is the dynamic range," says Brooksbank. Dynamic range is the ratio between the largest and smallest levels of colour, light and sound -- as well as time -- that recording, transmission and display equipment are expected to attain. Fireworks test all dynamic ranges to their limits. They're bright, colourful, fast, loud explosions on a black background -- which causes havoc with technology.

"Fireworks need a large dynamic range that exists in nature and -- within reason -- exists in our eyesight," says Brooksbank. "But the whole system within television isn't designed to cope with that range." Take light, for instance. Until recently, digital stills and video cameras have struggled to take decent night time footage, because you're asking a lens to capture intensely dark and intensely bright images in the same frame. So the source footage struggles to accurately represent the brightness and the full colour of a firework. "They're too colourful, they're very bright, and they're very contrasty," explains Yurek. The chemical compounds most commonly used in fireworks emit wavelengths that aren't within the physical possibility of being seen by many TVs.

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Why Fireworks Look Really Bad on Your Fancy TV

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  • Not really (Score:5, Insightful)

    by nagora ( 177841 ) on Thursday January 02, 2020 @11:11AM (#59579036)

    "As any seasoned TV watcher will tell you, firework displays don't translate well to television."

    It's never bothered me. Generally, TV shows them well as cameras are usually mounted high up above intervening buildings and people.

    The sound is not realistic, sure, but I don't think I actually want that in my living room (or in the flat above).

    This just sounds like some tv-fi geek gearing up to tell us we have to replace all our equipment again for no great benefit.

    • Re:Not really (Score:5, Interesting)

      by Major_Disorder ( 5019363 ) on Thursday January 02, 2020 @11:15AM (#59579052)

      This just sounds like some tv-fi geek gearing up to tell us we have to replace all our equipment again for no great benefit.

      I think you cracked the code. I, for one, will not be buying a new TV any time soon.

      • by taustin ( 171655 )

        I just bought one, because the remote stopped working on the old one and I'm too lazy to get up to turn it on and off.

        So I'm set for another 10 years.

      • How many people really buy a TV to watch fireworks?
        HD+ TV's were really meant to watch sporting events (tiny people running on a big screen) and movies (well focused pictures with a lot of detail)

        Fireworks, quality probably isn't a priority.

      • I have a 46" plasma with lots of inputs, that's about 10 years old and I got used for a couple hundred$ (about the price of an average new LCD TV, not on sale, in that size range). The picture quality just stomps anything I've seen for under about $1K (i.e. OLEDs), and unlike ALL the LCDs there's no picture deterioration when viewed from the side.

        Until I can afford a OLED TV, which might be never the way the prices seem to be going, and as long as the plasma doesn't break, I'm keeping it.

        Note: the fireworks

    • I recoil in horror and disbelief every time I see some show I already am familiar with. Everything looks so brightly lit and shiny.

      What it resembles is exactly the look of daytime soap operas. If you have ever seen them you know they have this strange overly lit and saturated look that's hard to explain. I suspect that historically it may havebeen that Soaps were video and most TV was still from film. But that's not entirely it since news broadcasts were also video and lacked that plastic look.

      I saw the

      • TV studios are pretty brightly lit and shiny. Back when the technology was really bad, they had to work under hot stage lights. Could it be the new tech is showing it like it is?
        • On TV people where orange tinged face powder to make themselves look normal. Many TV shows film nighttime scenes in daylight then process the images to make it night. When filming stopped down for sharp ling focuses they add more light. And even outside they use mirrors to add more daylight to the foregroung actors. So seeing it as it is seen by the camera itself is never the goal, it's seeing as it was intended to look that is the goal.

      • by Pascoea ( 968200 )
        I blame it on the 120hz (or whatever) refresh rates. They just look...weird.
  • Just when we think we've figured it all out, someone comes along and says 'What about this?" and we realize just how amazing the human sensory system really is.
    • by GuB-42 ( 2483988 )

      I'd go the opposite way. That we are able to see and hear things that are as loud and bright as fireworks is not a a great feat for the human sensory system.
      What is surprising is that TV works at all. It is nowhere near reality. It is a small, flat screen, only capable of showing 3 vaguely monochromatic colors, the dynamic range is laughable, and it conveys motion with 24 still frames/sec. The only thing we are getting right is the resolution, and it is a recent development. As for the sound, you are gettin

      • by geekoid ( 135745 )

        I am getting the sound from 9 reasonably sized membranes, thank you very much.

        Buying a TV for the built in speaker makes as much sense as buying a computer monitor for the built in speakers.

    • Comment removed based on user account deletion
  • That's not all folks (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Fembot ( 442827 ) on Thursday January 02, 2020 @11:19AM (#59579074)

    Mostly fireworks look terrible because it exposes the lunacy of the relentless pursuit of ridiculously low bitrate channels used by most broadcasters. You just can't fit that kind of scene into that sized channel.

    • by GuB-42 ( 2483988 ) on Thursday January 02, 2020 @12:35PM (#59579380)

      More like a limit of DCT-based compression. DCT is very good for encoding large areas of repetitive patterns, because that's how most scenes look like.

      But fireworks are not like that, they are made of tiny, extremely bright dots, and DCT, and frequency-based transforms in general make a mess out of these scenes. We could design a compression scheme optimized for fireworks, I am thinking something wavelet-based, but that would be a lot of work and resources for a very specific case, compression has always been about tradeoffs.

      As for low bitrate channels, it is not lunacy, bandwidth is a precious resource, especially in broadcasting where the EM spectrum is shared by everyone. So you definitely want to compress as much as possible.

      • especially in broadcasting where the EM spectrum is shared by everyone

        That's the unlicensed bands.

        Licensed bands, on the contrary, consist only of spectrum that is exclusively licensed to individual license holders. e.g. WNYW holds an exclusive license to broadcast on UHF channel 27 in Manhattan. They don't have to share that band with anyone, and it's solely their choice to compress their video feeds enough to allow four separate video streams to be multiplexed (one 720p, the other three 480i) within it. Then, when you consider cable TV providers and the excessive compress

      • Thanks for this. Makes sense. Strip the least significant part of the DCT, Where the tiny dots end up! Too bad we live in a world short on basic math skills.

    • The problem isn't bitrate. Most of the picture is black, which should take almost no bandwidth to transmit. The problem is the compression algorithms we're using are optimized for smooth, gradual luminosity transitions. Because that's the most common visual that needs to be compressed in pictures and movies. Meaning despite 99% of the image being black, the few super-bright pixels end up taking a lot of bandwidth.

      What's needed is to improve our compression algorithms so they can recognize a high-contra
      • by geekoid ( 135745 )

        I suspect we could create one just for fireworks. The big question to me is: Why are people still fascinated with fireworks?

  • "But the whole system within television isn't designed to cope with that range." Never heard or HDR? https://www.whathifi.com/advic... [whathifi.com]
    • "But the whole system within television isn't designed to cope with that range." Never heard or HDR? https://www.whathifi.com/advic... [whathifi.com]

      No, he's going on about this instead:

      BT.2020’s colour gamut is far wider than any existing TV technology, able to capture more than 99 per cent of all the colours in the world as measured by a researcher called MR Pointer, who collected more than 4,000 objects found in nature during the 1970s to record their colours.

      • by New Account 64 ( 6499084 ) on Thursday January 02, 2020 @01:47PM (#59579668)
        Color gamut is limited by two things: The primary colors and the black level. It is impossible to create all colors with just three real primary colors. Color spaces which cover the entirety of real colors use virtual primary colors which cannot exist in reality. This is due to the overlapping spectral sensitivity of the color receptors in the human eye. A television screen with just three primary colors can not reproduce 99 percent of all the colors in the world, even if the color information is transmitted in reference to a color space that can. If you've ever seen the CIE xy chromaticity diagram (shaped like a horse shoe), the reproducible colors of a system with three real primary colors (e.g. a TV screen) are all within a triangle that has the three primary colors as corner points. Colors outside that triangle can't be reproduced by these primary colors.

        The other thing that limits the color gamut is the black level. The purer the color the less light is present in other wavelengths. The purest colors are on the curved edge of the chromaticity diagram, and they consist of just one wavelength of light. A high black level shifts all colors inwards toward gray. Even if a TV set has very pure primary colors, a high black level shrinks the reproducible color gamut. If you want purer colors, the first thing you want to look for is a high contrast and a low black level, not some encoding standard with a bigger theoretical gamut.
        • by flink ( 18449 )

          The other thing that limits the color gamut is the black level. The purer the color the less light is present in other wavelengths. The purest colors are on the curved edge of the chromaticity diagram, and they consist of just one wavelength of light. A high black level shifts all colors inwards toward gray. Even if a TV set has very pure primary colors, a high black level shrinks the reproducible color gamut. If you want purer colors, the first thing you want to look for is a high contrast and a low black level, not some encoding standard with a bigger theoretical gamut.

          Doesn't OLED have this licked by providing an infinite contrast ratio (black level of 0)?

  • Lens? (Score:4, Informative)

    by jo7hs2 ( 884069 ) on Thursday January 02, 2020 @11:34AM (#59579126) Homepage
    The lens isn't the limiting factor on dynamic range, the sensor/film/capture device is the limiting factor. I'm not "asking the lens" to do anything besides point light at said device.
    • The lens isn't the limiting factor on dynamic range, the sensor/film/capture device is the limiting factor.

      That used to be true, but software tricks like HDR are allowing us to surpass the inherent dynamic range limits of the sensor hardware. The limitation is increasingly becoming the dynamic range of the display device. Primarily LCD technology which is limited to about 1500:1 or 2000:1 contrast ratio (the tricks for dynamic contrast ratio are limited to blocks of the screen, so don't work for small br

    • Except you're not accounting for the noise floor if your lens can't get enough light to the sensor.

  • by thegarbz ( 1787294 ) on Thursday January 02, 2020 @11:35AM (#59579132)

    An article talking about limits of dynamic range and colour reproduction, the kind of technological angle that should get nerds excited, and all the posts so far (and a large number of the posts to come) are from a bunch of whinging grumps who are happy with their old mediocre sets.

    What are you people even doing here since you're clearly not nerds.

    • by Ogive17 ( 691899 )
      It's like having to have the brand new extreme video card that runs Far Cry at 120fps instead of 60fps.

      Most people do not see it as a practical way of spending their money and most people would barely be able to tell there was a difference between the two.

      Just about anything can be made better with newer technology/more money.
      • And people who know how to properly set up equipment and source content. There's nothing like watching a program converted down to 480i and then having it displayed in squish/stretch/crop-o-vision on a 4k TV :X
        • by tepples ( 727027 )

          Not to mention people who receive a 4K TV as a gift to replace a CRT SDTV and then just leave it in crop-o-vision because they don't want to pay the HD surcharge on the monthly cable bill.

    • Actually, you can get a better 1080p HDTV signal over the air than you can get on any of the Seattle cable services, all of which deliver 1080i.

      So, it might not be your TV, it's that you're not using the free HDTV antenna on your HDTV, so you get a lower resolution, interlaced.

    • An article talking about limits of dynamic range and colour reproduction, the kind of technological angle that should get nerds excited, and all the posts so far (and a large number of the posts to come) are from a bunch of whinging grumps who are happy with their old mediocre sets.

      What are you people even doing here since you're clearly not nerds.

      There are nerds, and there are nerds. They aren't all alike.

      Me, I like nerdy plots and characterization. I never once watched my plain old TV and thought "dang, this would be so much better if i could see these wooden actors' pores."

      • by geekoid ( 135745 )

        But why are the nerds no interested i this topic polluting the thread with there bullshit?

        But you're one of those idiots that think anyone interested in a thing is also a nerd, so.. you're pointless.

        • But why are the nerds no interested i this topic polluting the thread with there bullshit?

          But you're one of those idiots that think anyone interested in a thing is also a nerd, so.. you're pointless.

          Uh, OK. Pleasure talking to you ...

    • Even nerds are getting fed up with newer, flashier, "smart" technology. I never want to upgrade anything anymore, because the new stuff is gimped garbage designed to fall apart in a year, assuming the mandatory subscription and integrated spyware even lasts that long.

  • by samdu ( 114873 ) <samdu@@@ronintech...com> on Thursday January 02, 2020 @11:38AM (#59579144) Homepage

    Lots of things don't look as good on TV (ANY TV) as they do in real life, but most things we watch on TV have other aspects to them not related to explicitly the visuals and audio (drama, story, emotion, etc...). Fireworks only exist to look cool in the night sky. They have never and probably never will look "as good" on TV as they do in real life. The scale is completely off - something that is impressive as a massive explosion of lights in the sky loses a lot when it's shrunk down for a television. And there is a great deal of presence lost as well. The same issues occur with live concerts. While you can appreciate a live concert on TV, it loses so much in the translation that it's a completely different (and worse) experience.

    VR would be the only solution I can think of that would come close. AR, maybe, but you'd still lose much of the feeling of presence with AR.

    • Exactly so.

      With the presence alone, large shells can explode to over 500 feet across, and many displays launch over a thousand feet into the air. A TV screen five feet across can't compare. VR headsets can emulate the size and scale, so that's something.

      Many of the compounds burn incredibly brightly. As one of many chemicals flaring to light, magnesium burns bright enough it can blind humans. It's only because of the distance that we can tolerate the brightness of many fireworks at all. Mass-market screens

    • by geekoid ( 135745 )

      The spaceship on my tv look far better then any spaceship in real life!

  • That's why people drive to see them in person.
    • In Seattle we walk to the fireworks, and then have suburbanites who don't pay to build our roads block the roads from being crossed by pedestrians so their fancy climate-destroying cars can leave, resulting in ten minute waits to cross the street, even though there are 20 times more pedestrians that cross in one cycle than all the empty single-passenger suburban cars they let through, due to the traffic jams.

      TAKE BACK THE STREETS WE SEATTLEITES PAID FOR!

      • by geekoid ( 135745 )

        You don't think tax dollar for you streets also come from the state? and that those people aren't buying thing in the city?

        • Nope. I don't.

          I've noticed they tend to buy their gas outside the city where it's cheaper, and we Blue cities are carrying them as suburban tax leeches.

    • by geekoid ( 135745 )

      I just thought because people were stuck in a tradition, and 'tradition' means thing we don't think about, just do.

  • Q: What's a fancy TV?

    A: The one msmash doesn't have, thus he puts that dig in the headline.

    C'mon, try better.

  • If you want your shows to look good, only view stuff with low emissions.

  • by Fly Swatter ( 30498 ) on Thursday January 02, 2020 @12:17PM (#59579316) Homepage
    Dynamic range is great, but that doesn't matter when the rockets explode into tiny pixelated squares with artifacts everywhere. Oh by the way, that audio that just 'pops' is compressed as well, although usually the real problem is back/down/not firing at you tiny afterthought speakers. Analog was better for this, digital is not there yet.
  • ...if you TV innovators need some reason to sell a new TV set every 3 years, solve THAT fidelity issue before you try to convince us that we all desperately need 3D tv or curved screens.

  • It doesn't matter what dynamic range your TV has. Video compression takes the extremes of colour & contrast out of streams & recordings anyway. Reducing the dynamic range is one of the simplest & easiest ways to reduce file size/bandwidth.
  • I dunno, the smoke tnat obliterated [metro.co.uk] the London Eye on my 4K OLED TV looked really good :-) I must say, I hadn't laughed so hard at something on the BBC for years!

  • I'm thinking the reason why the fireworks didn't look that good in Seattle this year is because the high winds meant we all had to watch the fireworks from Yellowknife instead.

    You insensitive clod!

  • Seriously, what's the point of that?

    As a sidebar to this (ridiculous, pointless) subject: Try watching rain falling on the ground on a modern TV, especially if it's being played from a DVD or BluRay disc, but even OTA compression applies here: you'll see all sorts of compression artifacts because of the randomness of rainfall, and the fact there's so much motion. Only so much bandwidth to go around.
  • And here I thought the reason was that fireworks displays were just inherently boring.

  • ...I just bought the 2019 4K LG 65â LED Smart TV from CostCo for $450. Couldnâ(TM)t be happier. Blacks arenâ(TM)t the deepest, but itâ(TM)s such a great picture for the money.

    Best of all it supports HDR content.

    • ...I just bought the 2019 4K LG 65Ã LED Smart TV from CostCo for $450. CouldnÃ(TM)t be happier. Blacks arenÃ(TM)t the deepest, but itÃ(TM)s such a great picture for the money.

      Best of all it supports HDR content.

      OLED and HDR is an oxymoron.

      • I guess all those Dolby Vision HDR reference OLED monitors don't exist then? You know, the LG and Sony units...
        • by WaffleMonster ( 969671 ) on Thursday January 02, 2020 @06:13PM (#59580630)

          I guess all those Dolby Vision HDR reference OLED monitors don't exist then? You know, the LG and Sony units...

          No $450 OLED display will do even 1000 nits. Instead there is an ongoing scam of apologists saying OLED is HDR too because black levels.

          MicroLED can't come soon enough. OLED as a technology is a dead end. Too unreliable, not daylight visible and lifespan is unacceptably short vs. competing display technologies.

      • by geekoid ( 135745 )

        No, they are not.
        I'd explain why, but I'm not which word you don't know the definition of.

  • "The fundamental problem is the dynamic range"

    This is fundamentally bullshit. If I can download still images of fireworks that look nice and display them on a non HDR display the problem cannot be dynamic range.

    The problem of substance is bit starved CBR rather than CRF encoding universally used for broadcasting.

    HDR is nice and all yet generally in most scenes it makes no difference at all. What people who think its the greatest thing ever are reacting to are different profiles with more aggressive satura

    • by geekoid ( 135745 )

      How about you use the whole quote, and not just cut it off so you can make a post to try and trick people into thinking you are knowledgeable?

      The fundamental problem is the dynamic range,” says Brooksbank. Dynamic range is the ratio between the largest and smallest levels of colour, light and sound – as well as time – that recording, transmission and display equipment are expected to attain. Fireworks test all dynamic ranges to their limits. They’re bright, colourful, fast, loud exp

      • How about you use the whole quote, and not just cut it off so you can make a post to try and trick people into thinking you are knowledgeable?

        Dynamic range is the ratio between the largest and smallest levels of colour, light and sound

        I stand by my quote. It is not necessary to enumerate what dynamic range means because everyone knows what it means. Sound has nothing to do with how things look.

        Neither is "time - that recording, transmission and display equipment are expected to attain". I reject the notion time is in any way relevant to the issue at hand from a display perspective with IPS or OLED panel because there is no technical basis for it. There is no appreciable inter-frame hysteresis. If a static image of fireworks can be d

  • Is this a zero world problem?
  • If you have seen one, you have seen them all.

  • Good info. I knew I never liked "Love, American Style" but I never thought about how/why the show seemed lame to me. Now, finally, it is known.
  • Unless you're trying to compress the crap out of the signal. Pretty much all cameras today can easily capture fireworks - video and audio. It's the attempt to compress the data, where you're looking for deltas between frames, that breaks you down. The algorithms keep searching and smoothing so much in an attempt to reduce data that it squeezes the life out of the original event.
  • Fireworks almost always looked fine using plain old broadcast NTSC cameras and CRTs. This is a system with far less color reproduction capability than today's HDTV. Why did it work? Because professionals were operating the equipment who knew how to use the equipment to the fullest within its limitations.

    It's a complete load of horse-shit that modern digital TV cameras and displays can't display fireworks. They may not be able to display the colors with perfect accuracy, but they can still look great if on

  • HDR has the potential for offering a better presentation of fireworks. HDR on a MicroLED display (which can have really black blacks; OLED can also do that but it doesn't get bright enough for full HDR) will get us even closer. HDR on LCD doesn't work as well because it depends on local dimming to enhance contrast, and fireworks are a type of content where local dimming does not behave well because of the extremely high local contrast. (You end up with halos around the firework bursts.)

    As for the dynamic ra

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