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Television Entertainment

Why HBO Max and Peacock Aren't On Roku (gizmodo.com) 59

Posted by BeauHD from the Apple-isn't-the-only-one dept.
An anonymous reader quotes a report from Gizmodo: It's been months since HBO Max and Peacock officially launched, and still, neither streaming service currently appears on the Roku platform (or Amazon, for that matter). The companies have said discussions about support were ongoing, but now we know why they're still absent: Roku's support fees are expensive as hell. In a deep-dive report on Roku's ascent to dominance in the streaming space, Variety reported Thursday that the streaming platform and hardware brand is asking for 30% of ad inventory and 20% of subscription costs from third-party streaming services hoping to find a home on Roku. In other words, Roku is making Apple-level demands of its channel partners -- terms HBO Max and Peacock aren't willing to agree to, clearly. Another point of contention in the discussions appears to be support for standalone apps, as opposed to subscriptions sold through the Roku Channel.
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Why HBO Max and Peacock Aren't On Roku

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  • The article and summary both mention parenthetically that these two services are also not available on Amazon devices, but they only focus on Roku being as "expensive as hell". What about Amazon? Are they absent there for the same reason?

    • I don't know about Roku, never used it. But I've installed HBOMax very easily onto not one but two Fire sticks without a hitch. Works perfectly, and is also easy to update when needed. I get an HBO ad about one out of three times I start to watch something on HBOMax. I understand Roku makes installing third-party apps extremely difficult, but with Fire it's a cinch.

      It's almost like a Fire stick is a specialty Android device, while the Roku isn't.

      • The main reason I use roku is they have the xfinity app, which lets you watch without having to rent a box. By having 2 rokus we save about $400 a year (also bought my own gateway at $80 instead of $10 per month for additional saving)

  • Need more info (Score:5, Insightful)

    by transporter_ii ( 986545 ) on Saturday August 29, 2020 @08:19AM (#60452534) Homepage

    There is absolutely no way Amazon and youtube is giving Roku a 30%/20% cut. Something doesn't add up here.

     

    • Comment removed based on user account deletion

      • What the submission says is Roku *support* fees. TFA doesn't exactly explain this. I assume Amazon and youtube have programmers that know how to create and maintain their own Roku apps. Perhaps if you don't have competent people, Roku will develop and support an app for you, for a fee?

  • in an interview with Marco Rubio [americanaf...ournal.org], Common Good Capitalism (Vol IV, issue 1), he makes the point that US companies are no longer willing to chase risky basic research, and are instead pushed by shareholder expectations into rent-seeking schemes.

    A side effect of this is allowing China to vertically integrate, from basic research in major fields like AI and telecommunications to manufacturing cutting edge technology to mining and refining raw materials.

    Worse yet, "our" companies are Chinese owned and controlled

    • "Rubio points out that in China, the most exciting job for children is astronaut."

      Is there nowhere China won't use child labor? Not even space is safe.

    • Re:America no longer innovates, but seeks rent (Score:5, Interesting)

      by OrangeTide ( 124937 ) on Saturday August 29, 2020 @11:34AM (#60452984) Homepage Journal

      he makes the point that US companies are no longer willing to chase risky basic research, and are instead pushed by shareholder expectations into rent-seeking schemes.

      I'm not sure when it was otherwise, not in my own lifetime surely. Big Business is big because it preserves capital by not throwing it away on risky ventures. If you're already super rich you don't need to spend it all on the tech startup lottery.

      The romanitization of entrepreneurism is a flaw in American culture. Individuals sometimes overlook profitable business arrangements chasing this dream. Starting a new business is already difficult and risky, don't compound it by requiring that we also do it while laughing heroically in the face of danger.

      A side effect of this is allowing China to vertically integrate,

      It's not something we're capable of preventing without strategic bombing. It's the inevitable result of a billion body work force coming online. We accelerated the rise of the authoritarian nation with our free trading policies with China, but free trade is a principle we (collectively) already supported so not exactly surprising.

      Make a little money in the short term, avoid long term strategy, get out with your piles of cash when it stops working. That's how we've operated industry for over a century, and how the thousands of people like Marco Rubio operate in D.C. politics.

      Rubio points out that in China, the most exciting job for children is astronaut. For Americans, it's YouTuber.

      Yes, it's not 1969 anymore. You can almost smell the era on his breath by the way he talks about it. The future should never be exactly like the past. It's futile to attempt to duplicate your experiences for you children, they aren't going to get the same thing out of it that you did. Besides your memory of how things were are most likely very inaccurate.

      I remember when adults were upset that children wanted to be pop stars instead of police officers and firefighters. I guess it can be pretty shocking to someone who grew up in the 1950's to see their 1980's son putting on eyeliner and dying their hair, the whole androgyny thing was briefly fashionable with the younger crowd and confounded most of the older generation.

      FWIW I know kids who don't plan on being influencers and YouTube celebrities. They still have maybe less realistic dreams like being a pro-athlete (basketball in the case I'm thinking of), and some of the kids I know have pretty down-to-earth ideas of what they might like to do when they grow up. In the bay area, the occupation of Engineer is very polarizing with kids. Some kids think it's great, others are are vehemently opposed to the idea even when they have the aptitude for it. I think in those cases they see their father working long hours or perhaps simply wish to find an identity outside of the their parents'.

      • Big Business is big because it preserves capital by not throwing it away on risky ventures.

        Big Business is big because of mergers and acquisitions, customers buying product, mandates for products and services, avoidance of taxation, lobbying for special treatment... not for avoiding spending money on R&D. Some big businesses are big in large part because of R&D expenditure leading to products people will pay for. I like to point at 3M as an example. They are environmental destroyers but their products are top-notch, because they are willing to spend money [forbes.com] developing them.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by sjames ( 1099 )

        Big Business is big because it preserves capital by not throwing it away on risky ventures.

        Big business throws money away on risky ventures all the time, it's just the the ventures are based on rent seeking and corporate raiding.

        Most common form, buy a successful business, jack up prices, cut every corner on quality and service. Cut employees. Hope to make a quick buck and sell it off before it crashes and burns.

        AT&T just demonstrated that (and failed trying). Bought DirecTV for 50 Billion (in the middle of cable cutting, talk about risky). Now they're looking to sell for 20 billion.

        There is

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by jwymanm ( 627857 )
      Where is all this hatred for a company that provides a popular service to charge whatever percent they want to charge? How are we supposed to care for HBO Maxx or Peacock more than ROKU? Roku has a responsibility to pay its employees also. If you don't like it don't list on Roku. Roku customers will watch other resources.

    • We could fix this -- come up with a taxation scheme which created an incentive to spend profits on rank and file employee salaries, R&D or distribute the profits to shareholders via dividends as well as discouraging stock buybacks and excess cash accumulation.

      Firms should be discouraged from accumulating excess cash and inflating share prices. They should invest in R&D, reward employees (defined broadly) or return it to shareholders. Anything else is mostly economic inefficiency since firms will te

    • You know where else children grew up wanting to be astronauts? USSR. I should know - I was one of those children. It didn't help us.

      But anyway, rent seeking is literally what capitalism is all about. The goal of any enterprise is to get yourself into the position where you can skim economic rents off the labor of others. If you don't like that, there are only two different ways to tackle it: either rebuild a society with different economic incentives in it, or have a government that's strong enough to keep

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by stikves ( 127823 )

      The times have changed.

      Now, the "startups" are where big tech actually outsource their R&D.

      For example, a few years ago, there was a huge wave of self driving car startups. They were trying several different ideas at the same time, while burning through VC money. Once they matured, some were bought out by larger tech companies, many went under (one such specific company was a Chinese one formed here in Silicon Valley). Remember, VCs also funded those large tech companies, so they actually get a "return

  • There is no way Roku could be a profitable business if all of its revenue came out of purchases of its 40-50 dollar streaming stick and limited ad placement.

    • Comment removed based on user account deletion

      • Of course, Google is a N-pound gorilla that has its fingers in every business. Their biggest business is search ads, and they are able to link every other business to it. For Roku, their money-losing stick is their only business. Like the poster before noted, the streaming stick business model is basically the HP/Epson inkjet printer of today. They sell it at loss, hoping to recoup through ads and subscriptions.

        If Roku built a platform that's solely making money off hardware sales and support, then just lik

    • Its always been kind of the inkjet printer model, cheap hardware with subscriptions on the back end. They've always wanted to sell you streaming subscriptions - like the a la carte one-stop shopping cable users seemed to always want. But most of the streaming channels aren't very good, especially to have over time. So they merged with an advertising company to focus on ads - typical of a TV provider. They'll end up alienating the folks that supported Roku in the beginning.

  • It's too early to whine about why these services are not on platform X. This article would be more interesting a year from now.

  • I was thinking that my next TV would be a Roku TV, but now I'm reconsidering. I really like what I've seen of the interface, and it used to be the one option that would carry all the content since they weren't in the content business themselves. Now all that has changed. First they started adding ads (which I assume I can block at the firewall), and now they're putting up content barriers.

    • Something is not right about the article. There are free non-ad supported apps (like EmbyTV for viewing content on Emby servers). I much prefer Roku over android based devices.

      • Comment removed (Score:4, Interesting)

        by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Saturday August 29, 2020 @09:38AM (#60452700)
        Comment removed based on user account deletion

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by crow ( 16139 )

          That's a very useful explanation. Thanks!

        • HBO Max is actually trying to get off the channel and into standalone app.

          Reading roku terms (https://docs.roku.com/published/developerdistribution/en/us , Exhibit A) I would say they are pretty clear on those payment requirements. Points 1 (Paid application and related definitions), 2 (requirement for direct publisher application to be within store) and 3.1 (requirement to exclusively use roku payments in paid applications) seem to make money sharing unavoidable for any subscription service (except for ski

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by laffer1 ( 701823 )

      Regardless of what streaming device you pick, there is some vendor lock in and features not available.

      FireTV sucks with google integrations. There are hacks, but it sucks. Chromecast doesn't play nice with apple stuff. Roku pulls this stuff.

      Apple TV is buggy and has to get rebooted a lot with third party streaming apps, apple steams content back after you bought it, etc. On the upside, an apple TV can use peacock, hbo max, and if you use the youtube app, you can get to any paid content from google play in

      • I haven't run into any compromises with my shieldtv. Not saying that they don't exist (I honestly don't know) but I've never found myself in want of an app that I couldn't have, and the shieldtv integrates with everything (unless you want to integrate it with homekit, but nothing integrates with homekit.)

  • Roku merged with an advertising platform. Since then its been all about advertising. My next streaming device won't be a Roku. I don't need another advertising device, another spy.

    Advertising these days is creepy as hell and drives me away. The industry is full of big data voodoo that doesn't work half as well as they say while becoming ever more intrusive. There is no reason that the remote control needs a microphone - if the remote is close enough to talk to why the fuck can't I just touch it?

    • There is no reason that the remote control needs a microphone - if the remote is close enough to talk to why the fuck can't I just touch it?

      Because typing with most remotes is tedious. But they could have put a physical switch on the remote to interrupt the wire to the microphone, which they didn't do because consumers don't demand it. You could probably add one if you were motivated, although IMO you shouldn't have to.

      Not enough people have read 1984, which ought to be required reading in high school.

  • Peacock streaming process is to validate " olde TV advertising" programming format which seeds sponsor messaging. It's added innovation is on-screen "countdown timer" that serves as helpful intention but mindless interruption to streamers. Brains are wired to consume continuously now. Messaging of advertisers doesn't penetrate streamer focus, attention nor ingratiate through the flow of streaming content – it just adds friction.
    Peacock's hypothesis that friction is not cumulative defines the stakes

  • Roku is tricky but valuable (Score:4, Informative)

    by Fringe ( 6096 ) on Saturday August 29, 2020 @09:31AM (#60452684)

    Roku is the hardest of the streaming platforms to develop for. It has a tricky, mostly undocumented semi-BASIC-like language. But they do real Q.A. on it also, so the end product tends to be reliable. And many many users who have other streaming options - built into their TVs, chromecasts, etc., still prefer to use a Roku; it's simpler, more reliable, and consistent everywhere.

    And, don't forget, Roku-TVs are pretty common now. As bizarre as this sounds, people buy the services their system supports, rather than buying a new box to support, e.g., HBO. It's a real subscriber-acquisition problem.

    Yes, actual insider knowledge here. ;)

  • Apple-Level, lol (Score:4, Insightful)

    by JBMcB ( 73720 ) on Saturday August 29, 2020 @09:37AM (#60452698)

    Wow the astroturfing campaign is in full swing. Keep in mind that Apple-Level demands are also Microsoft-Level demands, and Sony-Level demands. They ALL have similar fee structures in their app stores.

    • So: three wrongs make a right?

      Besides, I run plenty of programmes on my Windows machine without ever having used the MS store.

  • Comment removed based on user account deletion

  • Roku is a nice hardware platform, but... (Score:3)

    by Ritz_Just_Ritz ( 883997 ) on Saturday August 29, 2020 @09:52AM (#60452740)

    I mostly only use it as a front-end for PLEX to play my own content (thousands of FLAC encoded CD's and a few thousand high bitrate videos). When I get bored with my own stuff, there is enough content on Amazon Prime (supported by Roku) to keep me entertained.

    Even if NBC and HBO were available, I wouldn't consume their content (though I believe HBO actually IS available as an add-on for Amazon Prime).

    Link to PLEX for those who don't know what it is:

    https://www.plex.tv/ [www.plex.tv]

    Best,

    • Of course, if you hadn't bought a streaming platform which locked you in a walled garden, there's always the open-source Kodi [kodi.tv].

      IMHO, the best budget streaming device is the Fire Stick 4k when it goes on sale for $25 (and it frequently does). It supports just about every codec in common use. Since it allows sideloading and Fire OS is Android, there's not much you can't make it stream.

      The best torrent-based (ie: you don't have an interest in subscribing to paid services) media device is a Raspberry Pi 4. It

      • I have tried Kodi on both Raspberry Pi 3 and 4 hardware. It's OK, but I prefer Roku's UI and like that it just works out of the box without me doing a lot of fiddling. In a pinch, I'd be perfectly fine with Kodi too. That's certainly another option and it works fine on a Rpi 4.

        https://kodi.tv/ [kodi.tv]

        Best,

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by pnutjam ( 523990 )
      I think you meant to point people at Jellyfin, it's open source and works great. No pesky fees like plex.
  • And it's a serious question...I bought my Roku because I didn't want to be excluded from channels. I have a subscription to peacock & HBO Max, but can't watch either (I get HBO through cable, so can still see what I want to see).

    Is there a mainstream platform that plays everything without restriction...and as a bonus, if possible, doesn't rape the content providers?...and no, I am not going to buy my own Linux box and setup some noisy contraption in the living room...I'm married and wish to stay tha

    • If you have a PS4 or Xbox, then that should probably cover those services. That's less convenient of course.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by pnutjam ( 523990 )
      I have an small windows 10 box that seemed to work perfect for anything, and the "tablet mode" is good for a big screen tv. Then HBO max came along and wouldn't stream without stuttering. Thought it was the RAM or CPU, but swapping the box to linux fixed the issue. HBO Max worked fine, until they cut linux support...

      Check Amazon, there are some nice fanless computers that work great for a set-top windows 10. You don't need alot of space if your streaming or pulling from a NAS. I use Jellyfin for everythin

  • Odd... (Score:2)

    by emag ( 4640 )

    I know I recently watched the Peacock-exclusive 30 Rock reunion show, on my Roku. I wonder how I did that, now.

  • Comcast and AT&T are trying to flip the economics of the streaming market. Currently streaming companies pay to get on devices like Roku and Fire TV. The ultimate goal of Comcast and AT&T is to get the device companies to pay THEM, just like cable companies pay them to carry cable channels. I think the best solution would be for everybody to be device-agnostic and have no money change hands in either direction, but I can't help thinking that a future where the device makers pay would be worse than t

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