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Television Sci-Fi

Star Trek To Welcome First Transgender and Non-Binary Characters (bbc.co.uk) 466

AmiMoJo shares a report from the BBC: Sci-fi franchise Star Trek is set to introduce its first transgender and non-binary characters. The characters are to appear in the third series of Star Trek: Discovery, producers said on Wednesday. The trans character, Gray, will be played by trans actor Ian Alexander, and likewise non-binary Adira will be portrayed by Blu del Barrio. "Star Trek has always made a mission of giving visibility to underrepresented communities," said a producer. The show's co-runner and executive producer Michelle Paradise added: "It believes in showing people that a future without division on the basis of race, gender, gender identity or sexual orientation is entirely within our reach."
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Star Trek To Welcome First Transgender and Non-Binary Characters

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  • First non-binary? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by bohmt ( 900463 ) on Friday September 04, 2020 @05:03AM (#60472210)
    Wasn't the cogenitor in Star Trek Enterprise also non-binary?
    • by Z00L00K ( 682162 ) on Friday September 04, 2020 @05:54AM (#60472268) Homepage Journal

      Sexual orientation should be toned down in most cases since it rarely has any relevance for the story.

      • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

        How would you like it to have been toned down in Discovery, for example?

        Seems like they did it really well, the relationship was integral to the plot but the fact that it was a same-sex one was irrelevant.

      • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

        by Jemm ( 747958 )
        No-binary and transgender are not sexual orientation. They are gender. One is what gender you love and the other is what gender you are.
    • by serviscope_minor ( 664417 ) on Friday September 04, 2020 @06:13AM (#60472304) Journal

      Wasn't the cogenitor in Star Trek Enterprise also non-binary?

      Almost all the characters in Star Trek are non binary, with ST:TNG Season 1 Episode 15 being a notable exception.

    • Cogenitor was literally outside the nonbinary in that they were a third biological sex necessary for reproduction, just another day where people erase history to wrongfully claim a first.

      • Cogenitor was literally outside the nonbinary

        Surely you mean "outside the binary", since otherwise the double negation doesn't make sense.

    • Not only that, but that was a natural feature of that species required for reproduction, wasn't it? Whereas this sounds like projecting the inadequacies of today's medical science onto our supposedly perfect distant future..
    • Well the binars in TNG (episode 4 ?) certainly we not âoenon-binaryâ. Time to cancel them!
    • by Anubis IV ( 1279820 ) on Friday September 04, 2020 @08:08AM (#60472674)

      The Star Trek series is full of such characters, many of them recurring. Perhaps most notable was Dax from Deep Space Nine: an ancient character possessing multiple, simultaneous genders, which were put on display at various points in the show.

      The Binars from TNG were electronically paired with each other, but were genderless.

      The Outcast episode in TNG was a plain as day (beat you over the head with its obviousness) analogy about the treatment of homosexuals in then-modern society, as it had Riker having sex with a member of a genderless species who was then forcibly re-educated to conform to their society’s standards by denying their interest in him.

      The shows unabashedly tackled sexual and gender topics on any number of occasions, but with the exception of the rather heavy-handed episode I just mentioned, most were handled deftly and matter-of-factly, just as you’d want if you were telling a good story that happened to incorporate such characters.

      Broadcasting characters’ personal details that are in no way pertinent to the show or story is nothing more than pandering, and shoving those details into a show or story where they wouldn’t otherwise belong is nothing more than tokenization. Suggesting that this is the first instance of such characters is either a blatant lie or a statement made by someone with no awareness of the series’ history.

  • Oh My. (Score:5, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 04, 2020 @05:04AM (#60472212)

    I thought Sulu had the 'sexually ambiguous' base covered already for the last 50 years.

    • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

      Sulu was gay in the Kelvin timeline movies, shown on screen with his husband. In the original series they had to keep it toned down I guess, although I suppose you could infer that since he was shown to be romantically interested in women in TOS that might be a hint he was bisexual. It certainly wasn't intentional though.

      • In the original series they had to keep it toned down I guess, although I suppose you could infer that since he was shown to be romantically interested in women in TOS that might be a hint he was bisexual. It certainly wasn't intentional though.

        It wasn't intentional since his character was never gay. Not even in the movies.

      • Re:Oh My. (Score:4, Informative)

        by DaveV1.0 ( 203135 ) on Friday September 04, 2020 @07:41AM (#60472548) Journal
        No. Sulu was straight in the original series. Just ask George Takei. He was not happy with the movies having Sulu be gay because the character was not gay.
  • by leonbev ( 111395 ) on Friday September 04, 2020 @05:19AM (#60472224) Journal

    There was an episode of TNG called "The Outcast" where everyone in a specific race was supposed to be gender-neutral. Riker ended up sex with one of them, obviously, as was his custom as Captain Kirk's "screw every alien on the show" role replacement from the original series.

    But, hey... it sounds like the next season of Star Trek: Discovery is dropping soon. The PR news story generation machine is running!

    • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

      Kinda, the aliens in The Outcast were supposed to have no gender at all, rather than having gender but transitioning from one to another, or having gender but not feeling particularly attached to or conformal with the poles.

      That episode was seen as being about gay rights. Depending on who you ask it was either pushing the boundaries of what could be done on TV or it was a bit of a let down. Apparently Roddenberry had wanted to have a gay character on the show but it wax nixed by the studio.

  • First question (Score:5, Insightful)

    by stealth_finger ( 1809752 ) on Friday September 04, 2020 @05:30AM (#60472232)
    First question is, is the transgendered or non binary aspects important to the story being told? If not, then why does it matter. Who actually gives a shit?
    • Re:First question (Score:5, Insightful)

      by chefren ( 17219 ) on Friday September 04, 2020 @05:40AM (#60472246)
      If you have only seen recent Star Trek, then probably you don't have much reason to give a shit. But Star Trek was originally also about world-building and not just telling stories. It was Gene Roddenberry's vision of what our society could be in the future if things turn out well. In TOS it didn't matter to the individual stories one bit if Uhura was a black woman or not or if Chekov was Russian or not. But as part of the larger world it was trying to portray, it mattered very much.
      • Re:First question (Score:5, Insightful)

        by war4peace ( 1628283 ) on Friday September 04, 2020 @06:13AM (#60472306)

        Thing is, I never felt those characters being shoved down my throat, unlike more recent bunch of movies and series from all over.
        Star Trek did a great job being gender-neutral and race-neutral. It somehow managed to wrap everything in a nice way, matching characters with actors.
        They haven't put an emaciated nerd looking dude with glasses as chief of security or a weight lifting lady as the ship's empath.
        Disney's Star Wars managed quite the contrary. Almost none of the actors made believable characters.
        And I always go back to Xena and Gabrielle as the example. Imagine reversing the actors, and having Renee O'Connor play as Xena and Lucy Lawless being the sidekick. It would have been ridiculous, maybe worked as a stupid comedy, but that wasn't the intent.

        In the end, believable characters in a believable story matter most.

        • by chefren ( 17219 )
          In TOS, the ethnic or cultural backgrounds of Uhura, Sulu, Chekov & co. did not matter to the crew one bit. Well they used Chekov's Russian background for comedy, but it was good-natured comedy, initiated by Chekov himself. So it shows a world where humans have overcome their differences and none of it was being showed down anyone's throat. It worked exactly because they didn't. They could at the same time still deal with racism on the show, and the main vehicle for this among the crew was Spock. "In
        • Re:First question (Score:4, Insightful)

          by Junta ( 36770 ) on Friday September 04, 2020 @06:54AM (#60472408)

          Just like back then, *usually* the actual show and writers do a fine job of incorporating the sometimes more diverse than before characters without it being feeling awkward and forced. There are certainly exceptions, but they generally do ok.

          What is different is all the meta-coverage. Directors, producers, writers, and actors so immensely pleased with themselves and take to now widely available social media outlets to shout to the rooftops how amazingly progressive they are, how they are so brave and no one in the history of humanity has been as progressive as they are. It somewhat cheapens the inclusiveness as they tend to make it more about how important they personally are for being 'brave' rather than the issues they think they are trailblazing about.

      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        by Alcari ( 1017246 )
        This, I think, is the critical point.

        Their transness or non-binairyness shouldn't be important. If you want to normalize a thing, that thing needs to be treated as normal. Uhura is black, but there are no stories around her being black. She's just there, doing her thing while being black, because being black is normal.
      • Exactly! These characters were just "there" because any other kind of commentary concerning their background would mean that their society was not yet entirely looking past those traits. Roddenberry showed us how it's done.

      • Star Trek was originally also about world-building and not just telling stories

        Well then it failed, on both accounts. I went back and watched The Original Series, and I have to say that I don't get how this show ever resulted in so much fandom. The stories are quite formulaic and repetitive. The characters are quite one dimensional. It's like watching episodes of Dora the Explorer. All the episodes follow the same basic plot line except the planet/aliens/danger slightly altered but the show is completely

        • by cob666 ( 656740 )

          Star Trek was originally also about world-building and not just telling stories

          Well then it failed, on both accounts. I went back and watched The Original Series, and I have to say that I don't get how this show ever resulted in so much fandom. The stories are quite formulaic and repetitive. The characters are quite one dimensional. It's like watching episodes of Dora the Explorer. All the episodes follow the same basic plot line except the planet/aliens/danger slightly altered but the show is completely predictable.

          You say this now because you can't watch TOS in the context of when it was released and first went into syndication. Even in the 70s before the release of Star Wars it was considered to be pretty ahead of it's time.

        • I went back and watched The Original Series, and I have to say that I don't get how this show ever resulted in so much fandom.

          It was the superb acting. /s

        • Re:First question (Score:4, Insightful)

          by geminidomino ( 614729 ) on Friday September 04, 2020 @08:53AM (#60472872) Journal

          The stories are quite formulaic and repetitive. The characters are quite one dimensional. It's like watching episodes of Dora the Explorer. All the episodes follow the same basic plot line except the planet/aliens/danger slightly altered but the show is completely predictable.

          I wasn't around back then, but it may be a case of "Seinfeld Is Unfunny" [tvtropes.org] (TVTropes Warning)

          • I wasn't around back then, but it may be a case of "Seinfeld Is Unfunny"

            I was around back then, and saw some Seinfeld first run. Seinfeld was unfunny, even in its own era. NYC humor is a peculiar animal at the best of times.

    • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

      by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

      People who are trans or non-binary seem to think it's important, in the same way that Roddenberry thought it was important to have a mixed race crew back in the 60s. Representation on screen helps to normalize things like a black woman doing an important job.

      • Re:First question (Score:5, Insightful)

        by stealth_finger ( 1809752 ) on Friday September 04, 2020 @06:10AM (#60472296)
        Yeah and that's fine but just look at what happened with the tg character is the mass effect 4. Just having a character go oh by the way I'm gay/trans/non binary/whatever else you want doesn't help and is just forced tokenism. If it comes in to play somehow then sure work away but sexuality rarely is relevant unless you are going to have your characters shack up with each other or fuck everything in sight. Uhura and Sulu etc were obviously not white just by looking at them but I don't remeber them going on about it for no reason just to make sure the audience knows. That's why I asked if it's relevant to the story being told rather than go off on one about it not being needed or some bullshit. Every second of screen time is valuable and the more of it you spend pandering, the worse a product you get. See new star wars/ghostbusters/charlies angels and more for examples.
        • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

          I agree, it needs to be done well, not just a token thing. It's been done well in some other shows.

          TOS did make a big deal of some of the character's traits from time to time, most famously that scene where one of the bridge crew is a dick to Spock because he is half Vulcan and Kirk reprimands him. Usually though it was reserved for the guest stars, like those guys who were literally half black half white. They even had space Nazis, they were not afraid to take a position and preach it to the audience.

          Later

          • Re: First question (Score:2, Insightful)

            by Aldenissin ( 976329 )

            We need to be entertained and trained to accept supposedly natural homosexuality! Wtf ever.

            • Apparently you do. Here's a little tip though, when you see gays or whatever it is you don't like think 'does this impact my life?' If the answer is no like it will be 99% of the time then just get on with it. Do unto others and all that.
    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by MitchDev ( 2526834 )

      Gotta tick those SJW check-boxes

    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by Henriok ( 6762 )
      It might not make any difference to you, but representation is important for human psychology. The fact that you seem to believe that it might not be an issue only confirms that you feel that you are sufficiently represented in popular media. Good for you. I hope you don't hinder the efforts of others.
      • It might not make any difference to you, but representation is important for human psychology.

        That's nonsense, I've never been represented on the TV screen, and unless you are a cookie-cutter sitcom person, it's unlikely you have either.

  • The episode is the outcast (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Outcast_(Star_Trek:_The_Next_Generation)) there was an alien species which chose to be male or female at some point, and were non binary before, the man/woman seduced ryker. And that's on top of my head without searching. I am betting if you dig a bit deeper there is a few more of those episode with unclear sexuated species. And before somebody call me on "but they are not human!" aliens species always have been often a porte manteau to represen
  • by GrandCow ( 229565 ) on Friday September 04, 2020 @05:47AM (#60472252)
    They already approached this issue, twice actually.

    Who would have thought that Seth Mcfarlane would make a better Trek show than the people in charge of Trek.
  • by Qbertino ( 265505 ) <moiraNO@SPAMmodparlor.com> on Friday September 04, 2020 @05:51AM (#60472258)

    Can we please move on from this childish non-sense? ... I fundamentally don't get it.

    In the last 15 years or so a very small neurotic minority has been pushing a total non-issue into common laws and claiming to speak for everyone not having a generic hetero sexuality. We have cackling dimwits going on everybody's nerves, including those of trans-people, gays, lesbians, old-school feminists and still the whole world makes a big fuss about this point- and border-less moral panic.

    I can't wait till this nonsense fad finally dies out.

    And I'd like to add: Say what you will about straining the sometimes pitiful decadence of contemporary hip-hop and I get that taste is in the eye of the beholder, but if it needs two contemporary lady rappers and verbal porn to bring feminism full circle and back on track with reality, I'm all for it. That piece called "Wet Ass Pussy" that has gotten some attention might actually be the light at the end of the tunnel we've been waiting for. ... Think about it.

    My 2 eurocents.

    • Re: (Score:2, Funny)

      I... er... um, what?

    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by mildewzor ( 6823610 )
      The thing about all the trendy new sexual types - gay, transgender, lesbian, asexual, pornaddict, etc is that they have less reproductive potential - none in some cases. And that's what its really all been about this whole time. Add to that convincing much of the population that the best thing they can aspire to be is the pod boss in maximum security, and that marriage or fatherhood are a financial catastrophe for guys (all the responsibility but zero power), and society destroys its self. And good riddan
      • by stormguard2099 ( 1177733 ) on Friday September 04, 2020 @07:44AM (#60472562)

        The thing about all the trendy new sexual types - gay, transgender, lesbian, asexual, pornaddict, etc is that they have less reproductive potential - none in some cases.

        History has plenty of examples of people expressing their sexuality in these ways, like in Ancient Greece for starters. The fact that these forms of sexual expression have persisted in humans despite the negative pressures of reproductive potential would seem to point to something fundamental about our societies in a broad sense or us as humans that has caused these to survive despite being a small fraction of the total population.

    • Re: (Score:2, Funny)

      by h33t l4x0r ( 4107715 )
      It's a slippery slope though. Next, characters will be marrying tribbles.
  • by bickerdyke ( 670000 ) on Friday September 04, 2020 @05:54AM (#60472264)

    Didn't TNG intruduce the Binaries in the first season? So I would have expected every other character to be non-binary....

    • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

      The Binars, who for some reason tried to steal the Enterprise in the most ridiculous way possible instead of just asking for assistance. The first season was a bit of a mess.

  • Who cares? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by mwvdlee ( 775178 ) on Friday September 04, 2020 @05:58AM (#60472280) Homepage

    Star Trek: Discovery will continue to suck regardless.

  • ok (Score:5, Funny)

    by Dr. Tom ( 23206 ) <tomh@nih.gov> on Friday September 04, 2020 @06:08AM (#60472292) Homepage
    as long as they don't have a whole episode about one of them peeing.
  • Star Trek discovering new Alien lifeforms !!
  • I understand why CBS would try and hype up these new characters but I'm pretty sure the people writing these articles are aware that Jazdia Dax existed over 15 years ago.
    • Sadly, nobody show-running Star Trek these days ever was a Trekker, and if they watched an episode here and there it was homework for the job.

      It's just another TV drama now, without the Roddenberry purpose behind it.

      There's no five-year mission to seek out new controversies, explore taboo aspects of society, and to boldly go where no show has gone before.

    • by sabbede ( 2678435 ) on Friday September 04, 2020 @06:46AM (#60472386)
      Jazdia was decidedly female, just sharing her body with an, I think, genderless symbiote. Apparently one of the new characters is supposed to be of her species. I guess because in the future, continuity, like reality, is less important that political correctness.

      Though at least an alien could actually be "non-binary" without having a birth defect. For humans, that's just playing make-believe.

  • Dax? (Score:3, Informative)

    by ThurstonMoore ( 605470 ) on Friday September 04, 2020 @06:23AM (#60472328)

    I always considered Dax somewhat transgendered.

    • Interesting that you didn't think that Odo was, and he was probably more transgendered than anyone else on the show.
  • by LenKagetsu ( 6196102 ) on Friday September 04, 2020 @06:24AM (#60472330)

    You are NOT diverse. You are using minorities as an advertising model, which is not what is wanted or asked for.

  • by 0xdeadbeef ( 28836 ) on Friday September 04, 2020 @06:41AM (#60472374) Homepage Journal

    I thought the whole point was that everyone was "non-binary" in the future because gender roles are stupid and obsolete.

    Of course the "non-binary" chick looks like a woman cross-playing Wesley Crusher. Which is to say, she looks exactly like teenage Wil Wheaton wearing more than the usual makeup.

    The degree to which women wore makeup on Star Trek was particularly absurd. Either everyone would be doing it, or no one would, and it would die out like other absurdities, like wearing ties.

    If the show were internally consistent, there would be no trans people, because their technology would be such that no one would be identifiable as trans without a genetic scan, and even that would be insufficient if they had their DNA rewritten. You might as well cast anyone and call them trans, otherwise it seems to be making the argument that trying to look like the opposite sex but failing is the point of being trans.

    And I would love to see the outrage from both the SJWs and the alt-righters if the show were to feature people changing sex for the hell of it, and not to align to a gender identity, like in John Varley stories. That would be too woke for the woke.

    • It's a TV show. They're not going to abandon makeup any more than they've have everybody shave their heads, reasoning that people in the future will see shaved heads as more practical. It still has to be relatable to current-day normal people.

      I can see topics like changing sexes or even bodies being explored in sci-fi, but not Star Trek. It's traditionally been a smart but fairly accessible family show. It's only in recent times Star Trek has become more a homage to Saw and gender studies.

  • Star Trek actually has done this before and in a much better way. All this now is so much political pandering and virtue signaling to gain attention and seem relevant. I know I'm not the only who is giving the Star Trek of today a pass.

    This video explains the problems quite well with this announcement and Star Trek in general these days. [youtu.be]
     

  • Derivative (Score:5, Informative)

    by ChunderDownunder ( 709234 ) on Friday September 04, 2020 @07:20AM (#60472468)

    The Orville already covered LGBTI issues with the Bortus and the Moclans.

    Hence not as groundbreaking as ST would have you believe.

  • by MysteriousPreacher ( 702266 ) on Friday September 04, 2020 @07:22AM (#60472476) Journal

    This is definitely a good alternative to making something people want to watch.

  • by Zorpheus ( 857617 ) on Friday September 04, 2020 @07:22AM (#60472480)
    Well, Discovery already has a woman named Michael from the beginning. And the one playing her as a child character in one of the first episodes looks like a boy.
  • Star Trek isn't supposed to have social commentary!
    • by Opportunist ( 166417 ) on Friday September 04, 2020 @08:00AM (#60472644)

      Quite the opposite. Star Trek was always full of social commentary. Remember Lt. Uhura? That was a BIG deal back in the 1960s. You had episodes about racism (Let That Be Your Last Battlefield), about the cold war (Day of the Dove) and in TNG also about "wrong" sexual preferences (The Outcast).

      The difference is that back then the social commentary was more subtle, and exactly because of that more powerful. You couldn't go in with pre conceived ideas because you didn't see it coming until you found yourself on the wrong side of your prejudice. Uhura was a normal officer on a ship, she was not showcased as "our inclusivity pet". Bele and Lokai looked identical to us until Bele actually pointed out the difference of their facial hemispheres, and I'm fairly sure a lot of people considered that ridiculous, only to eventually figure out that our form of racism is equally ridiculous.

      Shoving it into the face of the viewer doesn't create understanding, it creates resistance.

  • by Opportunist ( 166417 ) on Friday September 04, 2020 @07:50AM (#60472588)

    Remember the original series? With a black communications officer? A female, black communications officer, back in the 1960s? You know what made her so special and what made the whole deal so incredibly powerful? That she was not special. That everyone treated her exactly like she should be treated: Like a normal officer on a normal ship. There was no "hey, viewer, look. LOOK! We have a black, female officer! You see that? How progressive we are? Look! She's black! And she's female! Female AND black!"

    No. Instead she was an officer. That's what made this message really powerful. It was normal to have a black, female officer on a space ship. It was SO normal that we don't have to parade this out,

    This now is just bullshit pandering. Want to bet we'll get another ham fisted episode or ten about just how oh-so-normal it is? Don't you get it that by doing that you're actually polluting the message you're trying to send?

    • Nichelle Nichols had resigned, and only rescinded her resignation when Martin Luther King talked her into it. She's discussed it openly in various interviews since then.

  • Ironic (Score:3, Insightful)

    by I've Got Three Cats ( 4794043 ) on Friday September 04, 2020 @07:52AM (#60472604)

    The Old Series and the Next Generation were great for exploring social moors and societal issues from within the far future Star Trek perspective. That's what the series was celebrated for.

    It's ironic that the series is now celebrated for conforming to the very social moors and issues it used to be a platform for exploring.

  • by gweihir ( 88907 ) on Friday September 04, 2020 @09:31AM (#60473028)

    Not really. Do I care. Not really either.

    Minorities should be tolerated and accepted if non-extremist, but giving special attention to them is not warranted. Also, sexual and gender orientation is overrated.

  • by superdave80 ( 1226592 ) on Friday September 04, 2020 @12:47PM (#60473884)
    Do they mean trans/non-binary ACTORS? Or trans/non-binary CHARACTERS? Because TNG had an entire episode around non-binary characters (The Outcast).

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