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Twitch Says It's In Talks To License Music, Tells Users To Delete Videos With Unauthorized Tracks (variety.com) 76

In a lengthy blog post, Twitch told streamers that they must stop playing recorded music on their streams (unless it's officially licensed) and that "if you haven't already, you should review your historical VODs and Clips that may have music in them and delete any archives that might." Variety reports: The Amazon-owned live-streaming platform also claimed that it is "actively speaking with the major record labels about potential approaches to additional licenses that would be appropriate for the Twitch service." However, the company also said that the "current constructs for licenses" that record labels have with other services (which typically take a cut of revenue from creators for payment to record labels) "make less sense for Twitch." "We're open-minded to new structures that could work for Twitch's unique service, but we must be clear that they may take some time to materialize or may never happen at all," the company said in the blog.

Twitch's music-copyright communique comes after several major U.S. music organizations -- including the RIAA, the Recording Academy, the National Music Publishers Association, the Music Managers Forum, the American Association of Independent Music and SAG-AFTRA -- sent a letter last month to Amazon CEO Jeff Bezos (copying Twitch CEO Emmet Shear). The letter, among other things, accused Twitch of "allowing and enabling its streamers to use our respective members' music without authorization, in violation of Twitch's music guidelines." Twitch said it was caught off guard by the music industry's crackdown on unlicensed music on its service. According to the company, starting this May, reps for music companies began sending thousands of Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA) copyright-takedown notices targeted at users' archived content, "mostly for snippets of tracks in years-old clips." Before then, Twitch said, it received fewer than 50 music-related DMCA notifications per year.

Twitch said it analyzed DMCA notifications received from the end of May through mid-October and found that more than 99% of them were for tracks that streamers were playing in the background of their stream. Twitch apologized to creators for the angst the DMCA takedowns have caused, noting that a warning email it sent to many last month about the videos deleted from their accounts "didn't include all the information that you'd typically get in a DMCA notification." "We could have developed more sophisticated, user-friendly tools a while ago. That we didn't is on us," it said. "And we could have provided creators with a longer time period to address their VOD and Clip libraries -- that was a miss as well. We're truly sorry for these mistakes, and we'll do better."

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Twitch Says It's In Talks To License Music, Tells Users To Delete Videos With Unauthorized Tracks

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  • by deimios666 ( 1040904 ) on Thursday November 12, 2020 @05:19AM (#60714910)

    Guess what, the DMCA takedown bots don't care if you've licensed or not.
    They'll strike you down regardless as youtoubers have found out.

    The funniest ones are where the bots struck the music author's videos.

    So overall it's not worth it to license the music, you'll just have more hassle to prove that you own the music while your revenue is taken or worse, video blocked.

    • by geekmux ( 1040042 ) on Thursday November 12, 2020 @05:23AM (#60714920)

      Guess what, the DMCA takedown bots don't care if you've licensed or not. They'll strike you down regardless as youtoubers have found out.

      The funniest ones are where the bots struck the music author's videos.

      So overall it's not worth it to license the music, you'll just have more hassle to prove that you own the music while your revenue is taken or worse, video blocked.

      Sadly, bots attacking their own legitimate clients is equal to your car insurance company being the cause of the accident.

      If they want to sell their bullshit bot service as "valuable", then there should be legal recourse when bots fuck up. Period.

      • Bad analogy. Takedown bots doing bad takedowns might be the equivalent of insurance companies doing bad claim refusals, but not causing accidents. You lose credibility when you catastrophize like that.
        • by realxmp ( 518717 ) on Thursday November 12, 2020 @07:08AM (#60715068)

          Bad analogy. Takedown bots doing bad takedowns might be the equivalent of insurance companies doing bad claim refusals, but not causing accidents. You lose credibility when you catastrophize like that.

          The problem is for YouTube creators it is catastrophic, because of the strikes system they can get their whole account disabled based on fraudulent claims and the levels of appeals and recourse available to them are poor. They can lose significant income or have it diverted elsewhere, they may be unable to upload new content or be unable to return to YouTube entirely until a big public fuss is made.

          Whilst YouTube is partially to blame for this it is the media/record companies that have been demanding it is tilted this way. Given how much YouTube and Twitch are becoming competitors to TV and traditional record company business models in the under 40s and especially the under 30s, one might even call it unfair competitive practices.

          • Sure but creators for any platform will always be beholden to the whimsical policy changes of whatever platform they're on. I'm not going to feel bad for them, anymore than I feel bad for a 1850 gold rusher who learned his land deed might have legal challenges.

            If you want a sure thing, go into Wall St. fuckery.
            • I feel bad for almost everyone suffering from onerous copyright law.

              Which, actually, is everyone.

              The only people I don't feel bad for are the people I am constitutionally incapable of feeling bad for, which doesn't include streaming stars but does include everyone knowingly issuing bogus DMCA takedowns. Their punishment should be not being allowed to consume any copyrighted media for the rest of their lives.

              • I feel bad for almost everyone suffering from onerous copyright law.

                Which, actually, is everyone.

                The only people I don't feel bad for are the people I am constitutionally incapable of feeling bad for, which doesn't include streaming stars but does include everyone knowingly issuing bogus DMCA takedowns. Their punishment should be not being allowed to consume any copyrighted media for the rest of their lives.

                I've bought some albums in the past after hearing some music from them in online videos. Looks like all that goes away. The stupidity of the Takedown system is mind boggling.

        • True analogy. You fail to see the colluding, overarching, all-consuming power of the insurance companies.

          Insurance companies often wage "cold war" tactics against clients...perhaps quietly not mentioning the fact that you're not covered for any accident involving someone with no insurance. Or perhaps other fine print tactics they're re-writing now regarding COVID and life/health insurance policies. Flood insurance company says your flood zone technically moved mid-summer?...wait, it was filed "publicly",

    • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

      What it needs is for one big streamer with deep pockets to issue a few thousand counter notices and bill them for the legal costs and lost revenue.

      It's pretty shitty of Twitch to have not handled this better. Provide some tools to temporarily hide affected videos while the mess is sorted out, rather than forced deletion.

    • the cool cats these days hire a musician to create a unique piece of music for their videos and sell them full rights. Then, they upload the song to a digital music distribution service to get it into ContentID. Then, they copyright claim their own video.

      Nobody else can take down a video if you have a copyright claim outstanding against it already

  • When all these companies become forgotten because no one listens to their music, people will look at other places allowing for more diverse taste that is not dominated by corporate. This is a good thing.
  • by mindwhip ( 894744 ) on Thursday November 12, 2020 @05:39AM (#60714942)

    There are multiple reports of streamers deleting the content as requested just to continue to get DMCA notifications/strikes as while it appears to the streamer the clips have been deleted it is still available in Twitches CDN from alternate links.
    https://www.ginx.tv/en/twitch/... [www.ginx.tv]

    • by flink ( 18449 )

      It's not on the streamer to take down content when Twitch receives a DMCA takedown. And the music publishers should not be sending DMCA notices directly to streamers. If you are the target of a DMCA takedown, and you do not wish to file a counter-claim, you don't need to take any action. It's on the platform to remove the content.

      • This is true. I could have worded my point better. What I wanted to highlight is that Twitch are digging a deeper legal hole for themselves. They are punishing and therefore alienating streamers who are doing everything they are asked (and therefore streamers possibly might have a legal case themselves against Twitch, especially in the EU and other areas where right to be forgotten law may apply for incomplete deletion of data) while at the same time failing to properly handle the DMCA notices and actual

  • Music is a powerful manipulator. It should be taxed, like alcohol and tobacco. An ad with music? Pay the tax. A monetized stream with music? Pay the tax. Movie soundtrack? Pay the tax. Maybe then not every stream and every Youtube tutorial needs to have background music.
  • by oldgraybeard ( 2939809 ) on Thursday November 12, 2020 @06:18AM (#60715000)
    Twitch can do what ever it wants.
    • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

      That's the real problem, there aren't viable alternatives.

      There is YouTube but it's live streaming features are very poor in comparison to Twitch, and it pays a lot less. Twitch is a community too, if you go somewhere else you lose a lot of revenue just by not being part of it.

      Social networks and user-generated-content sites really need some interoperability to prevent these kinds of de-facto monopolies.

      • People with unpopular political views complain exactly the same way when they are deplatformed.

        They are told “those are private companies, they can do whatever they want”. They’re also told “nothing prevents you from building your own platform”.
        • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

          In this case Twitch's entire business model is that you work for them as an independent contractor, unpaid but you keep some of your tips and can have side gigs like Patreon.

          Twitter doesn't have that kind of relationship with users.

  • And prob the equipment manufacturer. They think they are gods gift to man and everyone should pay and thank them. We pay trough our nose for music and several times over. I pay in my taxes, i pay from my business per square meter, i pay when buying a usb stick and i pay for spotify and trough watching endless adds. Probibly a few ways i forget. And i doubt anyone goes on twitch to listen to the music
    • by Megane ( 129182 )

      And i doubt anyone goes on twitch to listen to the music

      Actually there are things other than video games on Twitch. There are live streams from nightclubs such as Club Mogra in Akihabara, and some people do DJ mixes on Twitch.

      I've been confused by all this, because there is already a copyright scanner that mutes sections of the video, right after the live stream ends. But it doesn't seem that there is any later re-scanning of videos. Apparently part of the problem is older videos from before the MAFIAA's recent interest a few months ago, and this includes "clip

  • "But I was getting away with it this whole time" is not a valid defense for breaking the law. Sincerely, a full time Youtuber. Now if only Facebook would give a crap about legitimately stolen content and comply with a DMCA once or twice. They fully deserve to lose their safe harbor status at this point.
    • by oldgraybeard ( 2939809 ) on Thursday November 12, 2020 @06:41AM (#60715034)
      How come no one ever cares about incorrect take downs, take downs based on lies or oops how could we know, etc. etc. Until law is applied fair who cares about the law.
      If Big Tech makes their product less enticing great more people will get back to living life.
      • by Entrope ( 68843 )

        This is a problem inherent in the law. While the DMCA requires a statement in the takedown notice that the complaining party has a good faith belief that the use infringes a copyright, there's no direct recourse if they lie about that.

        • "complaining party has a good faith belief" right that is why a lawyer that lies en mass on purpose should have a savage $ and legal penalty
          Now lawyers can outright lie to courts and nothing meaningful happens.
          Our current legal system is based on power and money, not fair and equal justice for all
          • by Entrope ( 68843 )

            Lawyers are officers of the court(s) to which they are admitted, and can be disciplined and disbarred for lying to a judge. I don't know if all lawyers take that seriously, but the one who I had cause to retain took that responsibility very seriously.

            But a takedown notice isn't a court filing, and doesn't have to be made by a lawyer. When a bot files a takedown request, I don't see how the claim of good-faith belief in unauthorized use can be made with even a whiff of seriousness. The law should be chang

    • by dissy ( 172727 )

      "But I was getting away with it this whole time" is not a valid defense for breaking the law.

      It seems a good enough defense for you.

      After all you used words in your post that I own. You owe me money for that. You didn't know.
      Yet you still will refuse to pay for what you aren't entitled to use. You'll probably even make up some additional excuse why you don't owe me money!

  • Wait. It's 2020 (Score:4, Insightful)

    by wiredog ( 43288 ) on Thursday November 12, 2020 @06:33AM (#60715028) Journal

    And Twitch is just learning about the DMCA now?

    • nah, it's more that RIAA and Co have just discovered that Twitch is owned by Amazon and they actually have some money. and, you know, when you have some money, suddenly a lot of people are starting to express concern whether you owe them. seems like a natural thing to happen :)

    • Re:Wait. It's 2020 (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Njovich ( 553857 ) on Thursday November 12, 2020 @06:56AM (#60715056)

      And Twitch is just learning about the DMCA now?

      DMCA users are just learning about Twitch now.

    • by nagora ( 177841 )

      Standard RIAA operation is to ignore copyright violations while a market is being established, so that users depend on it, and then come in with the pickaxe handles and demand money which they will "fairly" distribute to the artists. If you come in too early, the site just shuts down.

      Luckily for them, copyright isn't like trademarks where you lose them if you don't defend them.

  • It's astounding the power the corrupt RIAA has over our culture. We can't even play a tune in the background without them claiming our entire creation as their property. We should be able to overthrow this democratically, since we outnumber them. But their corruption is stronger than we are. And we've just elected a candidate that represents this corrupt elite, so it's not going to end anytime soon. In a bitter irony, our only hope comes from an antidemocratic EU to batter our corruption into submission.
  • by misnohmer ( 1636461 ) on Thursday November 12, 2020 @07:18AM (#60715082)

    "It's on us. We're truly sorry" costs absolutely nothing therefore it means absolutely nothing. They can do it again and apologize again, and again, and again... They should just add a clear warning to all creators "We reserve the right to delete any and all content you upload at any time without any notice, and the most you will get from us is a generic apology. You have been warned, so go ahead an upload."

    • Re: (Score:2, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward

      They should just add a clear warning to all creators "We reserve the right to delete any and all content you upload at any time without any notice, and the most you will get from us is a generic apology. You have been warned, so go ahead an upload."

      It's in the Twitch ToS. You did read the small print before accepting them, right?

      Twitch reserves the right to remove, screen, or edit any User Content posted or stored on the Twitch Services at any time and without notice

  • Comment removed based on user account deletion
    • by EvilSS ( 557649 )
      I mean, Facebook already has this, and it works in near-real time. I have a friend who is a gaming partner streaming on Facebook and when they rolled out their new music licensing for partners, there were some tracks that still were not covered. He knew before the song had finished playing that it had triggered their content ID system. And that is with him speaking and playing game audio over the background music.
      • Comment removed based on user account deletion
      • Comment removed based on user account deletion
        • Comment removed based on user account deletion
        • by EvilSS ( 557649 )
          You can't stream separate audio streams to any of the live streaming services. They are not setup for it. It also goes out in a single audio stream along with the video stream. And yes, of course there are short spaces where the song audio is probably dominant in the stream, but that would be the case with virtually all live streams. The technology is pretty proprietary and commercial, I'm not aware of any (not to say there are none) open source and I imagine most of the companies selling these systems, n
          • Comment removed based on user account deletion
            • by EvilSS ( 557649 )
              I think this is going to be one of those fields where you would have to try to develop some insider contacts to really get a good idea of how it works on a technical level. Due to the niche nature of the industry I don't think they have a lot of public facing info. Aside from the article on how Shazam works, you might want to look at articles mentioning fine-state transducers. That seems to be something that came up in my searches a few times. I also found a paper on adversarial attacks on content ID that m
  • The RIAA has threatened them with a lawsuit unless they take a "deal" and this is them pretending it's all fine.
  • by djgl ( 6202552 ) on Thursday November 12, 2020 @08:23AM (#60715208)

    If twitch gets a DMCA complaint they should IMHO stop serving the audio track of the video, but they should not delete the files or ask the creator to delete them.
    Twitch should pay someone to create a tool to remove the audio of the song from the video. This involves the following steps:

    1. correlating the song and the video to find the exact position (can be aided by the creator)
    2. estimating how the song was impacted by the streamer's audio setup (i,e, estimating the impulse response)
    3. transforming the song with the impulse response and subtracting it from the video (like the noise reduction tool in Audacity, but with varying "noise")

    Until this tool is available creators should be given a simpler tool to mute the section of the video that contains the song mentioned in the complaint.

    • by Nugoo ( 1794744 )
      I was under the impression they already did something like this. I've definitely seen some Twitch VODs with long stretches of empty audio.
    • Twitch already muted portions of the recordings and displayed message "Audio for portions of this video has been muted as it appears to contain copyrighted material owned or controlled by a third pary".

      It seems as if they are trying to tackle the live streams now, too.

      • by dirk ( 87083 )

        The only did this for VODs though, not clips. The DMCA takedownsa re coming from clips where they didn't do this. This is the biggest issue where Twitch has simply failed. They did the bare minimum to protect their users and nothing more and are now paying the price. There is no reason they couldn't have done this same thing for clips, but they just didn't bother. Add to this their policy of permanently banning users after 3 DMCA notices and they really screwed everyone here tot he point their platform coul

  • Memory and intelligence serving...

    DJs can play any music at clubs, apparently because the clubs secure the necessary license (which is like the license that radio stations need).

    Mixcloud is similar.

    The only limit (at least at Mixcloud) is no more than two songs from the same artist can be played within a single DJ session.

    Mixcloud (like radio stations) requires filling out a playlist form, but I do not know about DJs at clubs (although it would not surprise me, if a playlist must be formally submitted there

  • by EvilSS ( 557649 ) on Thursday November 12, 2020 @10:38AM (#60715800)
    It's funny the timing on this. Twitch said they really started to get hammered with DMCA notices back in May, that also, by pure coincidence I'm sure, is when Facebook struck a licensing deal for their streaming partners on their competing fb.gg streaming service to allow them to use music from most of the major labels in their streams.
    • Things That Make You Go H.m.m.m.m...

      Careful not to trigger twitchy content ID systems with your mouth sounds.

      Also apparently your subject "looks like ascii art", but my modifications are perfectly acceptable. Hmmm indeed. Great job with those filters, folks.

  • Stick to using classical music in the public domain for your Twitch tracks.

    • by K10W ( 1705114 )

      Stick to using classical music in the public domain for your Twitch tracks.

      The problem is not music they are playing over the top of the gameplay in many cases, although there is some cases from issues with them having radio/spotify etc on in background. The rest are a problem from music that is part of the game. Also they've been known to strike against CC licence works used correctly, or stuff where artist holds the rights to distribute etc. I mention the latter as some artists got strikes for playing on stuff on other platforms BUT the record label owns the rights to distribute

  • Games should stop licensing music, honestly, while it's all cool your favourite band plays on GTA radio or whatever, if the music companies don't want fair use then the games should not give them money.
  • by hebertrich ( 472331 ) on Thursday November 12, 2020 @11:09AM (#60715948)

    Steps in the RIAA on the ridiculous is our game show.
    Please take a seat , the show's already begun. every now and then the RIAA pretending to work for us content creators
    step in and does something silly or against our best interest. Prince understood that ages ago. Go to his concert and the CD of the show was given at the door. Money's thin in the record inddustry for the creators , the bulk never goes to the creator but to the execs of the RIAA and the industry.

    Well no more , we don't need the RIAA because the RIAA is essential only to the RIAA and the " industry "
    As content creators we got ways to xsell and distribute our content other than them. They have realised we dont need them anymore and
    now they are thundering that they are the law , they are essential , they protect the creators etc etc .. BULLSHIT

    We can put our tracks where we want to now. Digital is a blessing. Youtube twitch and the rest by making the content available is doing us a favor : exposure and free publicity. The RIAA is against us doing what we want with out content even if we have no contracts with them. That is unreasonable.
    IF we want twitch and you tube to show our content for free it's our decision , not theirs. We should be able to do what we want with our content without them interfering but they are interfering. RESIST the RIAA is screwint=g artists from all over the world and it's time to get rid of them any which way can be done.

  • That's copyrighted, you all know that, right?
    I suggest everyone who uses Twitch go sing Happy Birthday on it, just to make a point. That's how ridiculous this is.

Keep up the good work! But please don't ask me to help.

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