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Television Businesses

LG is Cramming Ads Everywhere It Can On its TVs (theverge.com) 262

Posted by msmash from the how-about-that dept.
TV makers are leaving no stone -- or ad spot -- unturned. From a report: This afternoon, I was updating the streaming apps on my 2020 LG CX OLED TV, something I do from time to time, but today was different. Out of nowhere, I saw (and heard) an ad for Ace Hardware start playing in the lower-left corner. It autoplayed with sound without any action on my part. Now I'm fully aware that it's not unusual to see ads placed around a TV's home screen or main menu. LG, Samsung, Roku, Vizio, and others are all in on this game. We live in an era when smart TVs can automatically recognize what you're watching, and TV makers are building nice ad businesses for themselves with all of the data that gets funneled in.

But this felt pretty egregious even by today's standards. A random, full-on commercial just popping up in LG's app store? Is there no escape from this stuff? We're just going to cram ads into every corner of a TV's software, huh? Imagine if an autoplay ad started up while you were updating the apps on your smartphone.
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LG is Cramming Ads Everywhere It Can On its TVs More

LG is Cramming Ads Everywhere It Can On its TVs

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  • make it dumb (Score:5, Insightful)

    by ThomasD3 ( 2562163 ) on Thursday March 11, 2021 @02:33PM (#61148680)
    The only thing to do with a smart TV is to make it dumb: no internet connection. So you control what gets on the screen and don't use the TV's system.

    • Re:make it dumb (Score:5, Informative)

      by iggymanz ( 596061 ) on Thursday March 11, 2021 @02:36PM (#61148692)

      or for now trace which LG websites are serving the crap and block them. Let everyone know.

      Someone did this two years ago, the info might need updated

      https://www.reddit.com/r/OLED/... [reddit.com]

      • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

        by Bodie1 ( 1347679 )

        This.

        There are a few ad-lists for Pi-Hole that include the egregious LG servers.

        • Exactly. I was going to just unplug the ethernet cable from my "smart" TV, but instead looked at my pihole logs and added anything originating from the TV's IP to my blackhole list. I was rather surprised to see how often the damn thing phones home. Not any more.

      • Re:make it dumb (Score:4, Funny)

        by TomR teh Pirate ( 1554037 ) on Thursday March 11, 2021 @03:03PM (#61148828)
        Blocking ads isn't good for shareholder value

        /s

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by Kazymyr ( 190114 )

          ...and since I'm not a shareholder of LG or any of these other companies, I couldn't care less.

        • Blocking ads isn't good for shareholder value /s

          I wonder how many LG shareholders would put up with this on *their* LG TVs?

        • Re: (Score:3)

          by schwit1 ( 797399 )

          Widespread bad publicity about manufactures' serving ads on YOUR TV also kills shareholder value.

          Vote with your wallet and let others know of this rude behavior.

        • implying I'm going to buy crap on some obnoxious ad that pops up on my appliance? I'd say ceasing to waste money on such alienating behavior might be good for shareholder value. Greasy marketers and sales wanks have carried ads beyond the bounds of sanity, loading web pages with spew and violating our privacy and security. I'd say it's past time to cut their monies and make them suffer.

      • Well, it explains why I can't adblock youtube easily. The work around of using the phone is a non starter though.

      • Updated blacklist for LG TVs (Score:5, Informative)

        by cciRRus ( 889392 ) on Friday March 12, 2021 @12:53AM (#61150420)
        127.0.0.1 us.rdx2.lgtvsdp.com
        127.0.0.1 us.info.lgsmartad.com
        127.0.0.1 us.ibs.lgappstv.com
        127.0.0.1 us.lgtvsdp.com
        127.0.0.1 ad.lgappstv.com
        127.0.0.1 smartshare.lgtvsdp.com
        127.0.0.1 ibis.lgappstv.com

        # added after fork
        # from https://www.reddit.com/r/pihol... [reddit.com] and others
        127.0.0.1 us.ad.lgsmartad.com
        127.0.0.1 lgad.cjpowercast.com.edgesuite.net
        127.0.0.1 ngfts.lge.com
        127.0.0.1 yumenetworks.com
        127.0.0.1 smartclip.net
        127.0.0.1 smartclip.com

        # non us
        127.0.0.1 rdx2.lgtvsdp.com
        127.0.0.1 info.lgsmartad.com
        127.0.0.1 ibs.lgappstv.com
        127.0.0.1 lgtvsdp.com
        127.0.0.1 lgappstv.com
        127.0.0.1 smartshare.lgtvsdp.com
        127.0.0.1 lgappstv.com
        Source: https://gist.github.com/wassna... [github.com]

    • Re:make it dumb (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Yo,dog! ( 1819436 ) on Thursday March 11, 2021 @02:48PM (#61148750)

      The only thing to do with a smart TV is to make it dumb: no internet connection. So you control what gets on the screen and don't use the TV's system.

      Absolutely! Smart TVs report everything you do to the mother roach. They even have microphones to sense whether you're likely listening to ads or talking over them. Never activate the wifi and always keep ethernet unplugged except *maybe* for firmware updates. Always try to do updates via USB instead.

    • Re:make it dumb (Score:5, Interesting)

      by geekmux ( 1040042 ) on Thursday March 11, 2021 @02:53PM (#61148778)

      The only thing to do with a smart TV is to make it dumb: no internet connection. So you control what gets on the screen and don't use the TV's system.

      Just wait until these things start shipping with cellular capability built in that you cannot disable.

      (Yeah. They would pull that shit. Yeah. It is worth it to them.)

      • There are cheaper options with wifi:
          - Break the password on the local wifi hubs and spread the data amongst them
          - Fit diversity directional antennae to find local open wifi over longer distances
          - Do a deal with Comcast etc for access to their momem/wifi hubs

        • - Do a deal with Comcast etc for access to their momem/wifi hubs

          Or detect MoCA networks on the coaxial cable attached to the TV.

          No, these are all terrible ideas and would constitute theft of service.

        • Do a deal with Comcast etc for access to their momem/wifi hubs

          Jesus, Mary, and Joseph... this nearly made shit myself.

          There is a yawning chasm of hellish possibilities opening before me.

          How did I not see this nefarious use of Comcast's wireless ubiquity years ago?

          And more importantly, how do we stop it??

      • Just wait until these things start shipping with cellular capability built in that you cannot disable.
        (Yeah. They would pull that shit. Yeah. It is worth it to them.)

        No, it isn't worth building a cellular hotspot w/ data plan so they can stream ads on a TV. How many ads would you have to stream to cover cellphone data plan on a TV - say it cost $5/mo?

      • Just wait until these things start shipping with cellular capability built in that you cannot disable.

        You know things are getting bad when your TV needs a tinfoil hat.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Kazymyr ( 190114 )

      Agreed. No "smart" tv is ever allowed to connect to the network in my home.

    • Re: (Score:3)

      by crow ( 16139 )

      If you use streaming services for a significant portion of your viewing, then pick the smart TV with the interface you prefer. (I find the Roku interface to be the best, so that's what I bought.) I used to use a Fire TV Stick, and having the Roku interface built into my TV is vastly more convenient.

      On the other hand, if you don't use streaming much, get a streaming stick for when you want it, and use a dumb TV. I've found that a Roku TV without any Internet settings is an excellent dumb TV. All the "sma

      • Re:make it dumb (Score:4, Informative)

        by omnichad ( 1198475 ) on Thursday March 11, 2021 @03:40PM (#61148986) Homepage

        Or just buy whatever TV has the best picture and gets out of the way quickly. I have an LG TV that just boots to HDMI1 and the Roku is connected to a receiver, which then connects there. I don't have to buy a new TV if the Roku needs upgraded.

        • Re:make it dumb (Score:5, Informative)

          by Chelloveck ( 14643 ) on Thursday March 11, 2021 @03:53PM (#61149038)

          Or just buy whatever TV has the best picture and gets out of the way quickly. I have an LG TV that just boots to HDMI1 and the Roku is connected to a receiver, which then connects there. I don't have to buy a new TV if the Roku needs upgraded.

          Yeah, this. The manufacturer is going to stop updating the built-in Roku app *long* before the display hardware wears out. It's much better to get a TV that just acts as a dumb output device and attach your favorite streaming box to it.

      • All smart TVs can be dumb TVs as well, just don't connect to the internet. It's very difficult to find a completely dumb TV these days, and a smart TV may be cheaper than a dumb monitor of the same size.

        I did get a smaller Roku TV for my mom, not on the internet just connected to her satellite. She was very happy, but I mostly got it so that I didn't have to look at the old tube TV. And it was not expensive, cheaper or equal to non-Roku smart TVs of the same size.

    • Comment removed (Score:4, Funny)

      by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Thursday March 11, 2021 @03:37PM (#61148968)
      Comment removed based on user account deletion

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by wwphx ( 225607 )
      Yep. This is why I won't own a smart TV. If I were forced to one, it would never be plugged in or connected to WiFi. I have an Apple TV, I control what is displayed on my TV.

      Yes, the Apple TV monitors what I watch and reports it back to Apple. But at least it's a single point, and it gets updated - at least for now. I don't have to worry about LG or whoever losing interest and my TV becoming abandonware in four years.

    • Yup, my first thought. Who was dumb enough to put their TV on the internet... If all you have is a giant smart TV, and therefore have no money left over for a $50 4K streaming device, then maybe spend $40 for a wifi router that lets you adblock or blacklist.

  • Signal lost... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by bmimatt ( 1021295 ) on Thursday March 11, 2021 @02:34PM (#61148686)

    This is one of the reasons why my 'smart' TV (Samsung) is not connected to the network. It does not need to be 'smart', even though it sometimes nags to 'complete setup' and 'accept terms'.
    Screw that - there's already enough companies out there 'following' (siphoning/chewing on/selling/processing) my data. My TV doesn't need to be 'smart'.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Pieroxy ( 222434 )

      I have started today defining Brave as my default browser on my desktop. Seems to work. And nobody is notified when it does.

      I should know. I work for AdTech.

  • Never use the built-in apps (Score:5, Informative)

    by magzteel ( 5013587 ) on Thursday March 11, 2021 @02:35PM (#61148688)

    Never use the built-in apps. Just hook up the streaming player of your choice

    • Re:Never use the built-in apps (Score:5, Interesting)

      by leonbev ( 111395 ) on Thursday March 11, 2021 @02:49PM (#61148760) Journal

      Some of the other streaming players like the Amazon Fire TV aren't much better. I'm currently getting ads for Coming 2 America that are taking up a 1/3rd of the home screen.

      • To be fair, you also have a chance to get those ads while browsing the Amazon website or using their smartphone app.

        • uBlock Origin works great on Amazon's website. Most of the ads on their streaming service don't even get through.

      • You're on the HOME SCREEN, ads for their own programs are expected!

        You literally went to a screen to pick something to watch, and Amazon is promoting one of their shows/movies on their HOME SCREEN.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by leonbev ( 111395 )

          It's not that simple... they also promote other apps like Discovery+ as well on their home screen. I highly doubt that they aren't getting a kickback for that.

    • Re: (Score:2, Redundant)

      by geekmux ( 1040042 )

      Never use the built-in apps. Just hook up the streaming player of your choice

      Sure. And if you don't like the commercials on your streaming player, just turn it off, gather 'round the radio, and tune in to the ever-popular Whack-A-Mole show...

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by crow ( 16139 )

      Why should I use a Roku streaming player instead of a Roku TV? That's just pushing the problem one level down while making the user interface more complicated. I purchased the TV with the smart TV interface that I wanted specifically to avoid needing an external streamer at least until the TV is too old to use the services I want.

      • It pushes the problem one level down so it can be swapped out. And if you use a receiver, it avoids the complexity of getting HDMI ARC to work correctly.

        I use a universal remote with IR learning. Buttons to switch between for TV, amplifier, and streaming box (Roku).

        To be honest, a full-size Roku way outperforms the ones in a smart TV, which tends to run as slow as the Roku streaming stick.

  • I'm ok with ads on ad-supported services, but my TV that I paid for myself better not show me any ads in its built-in interface. When I can I try to avoid them altogether. I pay extra for no-ads on Youtube and pay the upcharge to remove them from Discovery+ as well.

    • I'm ok with ads on ad-supported services, but my TV that I paid for myself better not show me any ads in its built-in interface.

      Correction: you paid for some of that TV. The rest of that hardware cost was subsidized by the very people wanting to push ads to recoup expenses.

      There's an obvious reason smart TVs dropped in price dramatically. That certainly wasn't because manufacturers felt consumers deserved a good deal.

      • It's not as if the computing hardware in them is a significant portion of the price. A very powerful single board computer costs $50, and I'm sure with their manufacturing pipelines the limited hardware these devices need costs them a lot less than that.

      • There's an obvious reason smart TVs dropped in price dramatically. That certainly wasn't because manufacturers felt consumers deserved a good deal.

        It's the same reason that smart TVs are cheaper than dumb TVs. A smart TV can be sold at or even below cost if they know they can make up the difference over the lifetime of the TV with ads. This also allows them to undercut any competitors who don't have ads. Sadly, the only way ads are going to go away are if people stop buying or using ad subsidized products. A start would be requiring them to list whether ads are included but even then, most consumers are going to be willing to endure some ads to sa

      • TV panels and controller chips are just not that expensive. They recoup the cost of the device in the initial sale and these ad deals are just gravy.

      • I don't understand the advertising market, honestly. But I'm just looking at myself, as I and stingy and don't buy a lot of stuff. Ads don't seem to influence me that much at all. But even extrapolating to other people, I still find it mind boggling that advertisers are willing to pay so much money for just some few extra views. I mean, a $1000 TV and they still think that it's worth ruining their brand name by serving up ads for a few extra pennies?

        If advertising is really that lucrative, then they sho

  • Opt-In (Score:5, Informative)

    by darkain ( 749283 ) on Thursday March 11, 2021 @02:38PM (#61148702) Homepage

    The ad tracking features on the LG TVs are opt-in, and they asked as such when you first set it up... so its your own damn fault. Just go into settings and disable all ad and tracking related options, they're still available at any time.

  • Idiocracy (2006) [imdb.com] was supposed to be satire not a documentary!

    Ads disrespect your time, mind, and money.

    Become part of the solution, not the problem: Stop buying SmartTVs.

  • Either you sell me a device or service free of ads (excepting ads in 3rd party products like apps we are free to install or not) for a price, or you give it to me for free while you make your money from ads. Not both. Let's make that the law, shall we? They sure are asking for it.

    The Ace spot wasn’t particularly annoying — it was over in 15 seconds — nor did it feel targeted at me or creepy. It’s really the placement that feels like a step too far.

    The placement was out of line, yes. Unsollicited, on a screen you bought and paid for. Personally I haven't seen any ads on my LG TV, but I'm not using the built in smart TV features, and the TV is not connected to a network.

    • How about a discount for the ad-free version like the Kindles do? (That said, I think we should not have legislation on this.)

    • "Let's make that the law, shall we?"

      So you would make it illegal to sell a discounted TV to an individual where the discount is provided in return for ads being displayed?

  • When I make an easy to setup and update local dns server. Where things like this can get blocked fast.

    The easier to setup the better. Preferably plug and play between the router and the modem.

  • That would cause me to return the TV immediately.

  • This afternoon, I was updating the streaming apps on my 2020 LG CX OLED TV

    That's the problem right there. You should be wary when connecting any device over which you have no control to the internet. The TV should not do streaming by itself, or be connected to the internet at all. Moreover, updates should be avoided as much as possible - they have become a mechanism for adding monetization of a captive audience. It's much easier for a manufacturer to add unpopular features after you bought the TV. Even if you wouldn't ever have bought the TV to begin with, if it had that particul

    • Someone should make a documentary on TVs... call it "Dumb and Smarter", a play on the title "Dumb and Dumber" where the second one is worst than the first, hence the dumb TV is better than the (supposedly) smart TV.

  • Add this to the long list of reasons that I don't network my television and don't think apps (which require constant updates) are a good match for being embedded in hardware that is supposed to last for years. It's better to let your TV be dumb and pick a streaming box that has the features, ongoing support, and policies (privacy, advertising, etc) that you want.

  • I actually liked LG's WebOS TVs. Guess I will hang on to my old ad-free 2016 model for a while longer.

  • commercial just popping up in LG's app store?

    Am I getting it right from you: smashed by an ad in an App Store of the maker?

  • Some comments are arguing that the consumer should choose one TV that has no ads, but despite the fact that this is increasingly difficult and even harder to know at the time you buy, the manufacturers are updating the TVs that have NO ADs when they were bought, and stands to reason that the price they charged was in full, no subsidy supported by adds, to have advertisement now, without the authorization of the user.
    This happened to me, I bought a samsung TV about 3 years ago, up to about a year ago there w

  • LG and Samsung jamming crap down to their devices that you pay for is one of the reasons I stopped buying the phones from these two. Why are manufacturers so arrogant in this realm that they they this is okay?

    Is it because there is a lack of competition at the level they are at so they can just do what ever they want?

  • Stop using the TV's features (Score:3)

    by i_ate_god ( 899684 ) on Thursday March 11, 2021 @03:21PM (#61148904)

    And just hook up a cheap computer to your TV and use Kodi or Plex

    Hearing there are ads on smart TVs makes me wonder why people don't do this en masse. Kodi has addons for Netflix, Prime, Hulu and others (though in some cases you need windows) so you can use a regular tv remote with these services. And no ads (though, there are addons to add commercials if you so wish)

    • Exactly! Did you know there are some people out there who consider themselves computer literate that browse without adblocking?

  • the Cable Companies, the TV stations, the Networks, they all are cramming adds in to every niche of time they can, TVs have degenerated into spamboxes and its the reason i dont own a TV anymore

    • This part of the summary grabbed me:
      "I'm fully aware that it's not unusual to see ads placed around a TV's home screen or main menu..."

      Is that really a thing? This is the first I'm hearing of it. I certainly wouldn't expect it or accept it in something I paid full price for. I know people who have bought TVs in the last couple of years, and never saw anything like that.

      For my own purposes, my 32" monitor is doing me fine. It's FOV-filling at the desk and plenty usable if I want to sit back a few more feet a

  • When I first got my OLED LG TV, I was astonished with the amount of user agreements they want me to opt into or they would hold function ransom. I eventually became to uncomfortable with the whole process and opted out of everything and air gapped the TV. Seeing this makes my feel like it was the right move, but I'm still really angry given that I paid a premium price for a high end TV just to have LG provide this awful customer experience.
  • Perhaps I am misunderstanding, But the author thinks it is not unusal for menu or home screen ads but it IS for app store ads? I would have said the exact opposite. In an app store you are looking for something new, this is the ideal place for ads and one of the least intrusive ways as well as you rarely go in there. Having said that just treat your smart TV as a dumb TV.

    • Perhaps I am misunderstanding, But the author thinks it is not unusal for menu or home screen ads but it IS for app store ads? I would have said the exact opposite. In an app store you are looking for something new, this is the ideal place for ads and one of the least intrusive ways as well as you rarely go in there. Having said that just treat your smart TV as a dumb TV.

      In this case, it's during the software update screen. The LG's WebOS interface have ads everywhere. Even their older (2012, pre-WebOS) TV models were updated to display ads in system menu, application menus, etc. It's been happening for awhile just not on their highest-end OLED TV. If I'm paying $2K for a TV, I don't want ads because it cheapens the experience. That said my in-laws LG C9 OLED (previous model) haven't shown ads (yet) and that TV is internet connected because they want everything in one remot

  • Phones, apps, heck M$ even plans a desktop with the same thing, websites, ...

    We all want something for free rather than paying for it. So we get the ads, and they get to monetize us.

    We do this to ourselves every day. How many apps do you have on your phone that you didn't pay for? I guarantee the developer is still getting paid somehow.

    We want cheaper TVs with even more bells and whistles so yeah, expect to see more ads.

  • Wondering who the good TV manufacturers are these days that don't do this? I have a 14 year old dumb TV from Samsung that was the best for price/performance for the time. No idea who to go with now. Funny thing is, I probably would have bought and LG as my next TV.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Sloppy ( 14984 )

      Wondering who the good TV manufacturers are these days that don't do this?

      I'm still using a perfectly good Samsung TV from 2010 so I haven't had to face this problem yet, but it really looks like the solution isn't to look for a good TV manufacturer. I think the thing to do is to shop for a monitor. While there are apparently a few differences between the two types of products, I'm not sure any of them matter much.

      The only ones I can think of are:

      All TVs (I think) come with built-in sound and most monitors

  • I don't like these annoying ads any more than anyone else does. But I also know the profit margins on LCD TVs are ridiculously thin. I recently went shopping for a new big screen and it's kind of crazy how little you have to spend for a 64" 4K resolution set, right now.

    I'm sure some of that is thanks to the manufacturers figuring out they can make up for it with the ad revenue.

    As far as I know, none of these smart TVs interfere a bit with anything you display on them via one of the HDMI inputs -- so all of

  • We live in an era when smart TVs can automatically recognize what you're watching, and TV makers are building nice ad businesses for themselves with all of the data that gets funneled in. But this felt pretty egregious even by today's standards. A random, full-on commercial just popping up in LG's app store? Is there no escape from this stuff? We're just going to cram ads into every corner of a TV's software, huh?

    It's not nice, but individuals who care enough will always find ways to block or obfuscate this

  • Proxy (Score:2)

    by hduff ( 570443 )

    Possible to route the TV through something like Privoxy to scrub the ads?

  • Solution... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by sizzlinkitty ( 1199479 ) on Thursday March 11, 2021 @04:41PM (#61149242)

    I completely agree that a paid for product shouldn't contain ads, but this is the reality we live in today. Everyone is a product even if we've given them money to not be a product. That is why I run a pi-hole on my internet network and it makes everything better. I'm using a older pi 3b board and all it does is forward DNS requests and block the ones I don't approve of. Nothing on my internal network shows ad's and its amazing. It handles my android devices, apple devices, smart tv's, windows machines, etc. The other neat thing is I can block windows updates and windows telemetry.

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