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Television Technology

Netflix Adds 'Extra Home' Fee, Will Block Usage in Other Homes If You Don't Pay (arstechnica.com) 112

Posted by msmash from the how-about-that dept.
An anonymous reader shares a report: Four months ago, Netflix began its crackdown on password sharing by creating an "extra member" fee for users who share accounts with people they don't live with. The extra member fee of about $2 to $3 per month was implemented in Chile, Costa Rica, and Peru, with Netflix saying it would evaluate the rollout before making changes in other countries. On Monday this week, Netflix announced a different kind of fee it will charge customers who share accounts.

The new one requires customers to pay for "extra homes" and will be charged starting August 22 in Argentina, the Dominican Republic, El Salvador, Guatemala, and Honduras. "Beginning August 22, 2022, if your Netflix account is being used on a TV outside of your home, you will need to pay an extra $2.99 per month for each extra home. You will only be charged when you or someone who uses your account chooses to add an extra home -- this fee will NOT be automatically charged," Netflix says on its Honduras pricing page. The fee for each extra home is also $2.99 a month in the Dominican Republic, El Salvador, and Guatemala. In Argentina, the fee is 219 pesos per month (about $1.70 USD). Netflix apparently is aiming for a broader rollout of an account-sharing fee or fees by the end of this year.
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Netflix Adds 'Extra Home' Fee, Will Block Usage in Other Homes If You Don't Pay More

Netflix Adds 'Extra Home' Fee, Will Block Usage in Other Homes If You Don't Pay

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  • "extra member" fee (Score:5, Funny)

    by know-nothing cunt ( 6546228 ) on Tuesday July 19, 2022 @02:32PM (#62716678)

    If that was really what I'd hoped, I wouldn't mind paying it at all.

    • That's in poor countries where fees are lower in general. It probably won't be that much in the USA.

    • Why is this funny? If this is genuine: if it is actually a self-honoring licensing fee, left to the users to be honest about, I don't mind paying for a family member that watches infrequently. (vote with your wallet)

      Now, maybe people find this funny because, in implementation, we'll get some sneaky trick, I get that too, but let's hold out hope for now.

      I would have not minded 'data caps' from ISPs if they were REALLY only going after overtly egregious use. That's not a percentage, that's a two-digit num

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Toad-san ( 64810 )

      Yep, certainly seems fair and sensible to me.

  • Content missing (Score:1, Troll)

    by Dr_b_ ( 112464 )
    Keep checking to see if there is something good to watch, but there isn't
  • To be honest, that's a pretty fair deal. I can't see anyone having a logical argument against it.

    • Re: Not unreasonable (Score:5, Insightful)

      by sixminuteabs ( 1452973 ) on Tuesday July 19, 2022 @02:50PM (#62716724)
      You sure? One of the key benefits of cord cutting is having service mobility. In the past year, I have used my streaming services at home, hotels and vacation rentals. I do not have a 2nd home but my data might suggest I do. I will not pay an extra fee for Netflix to let me do something every other service permits.
      • Not that it should be the answer, but luckily setting up VPNs isn't all that hard anymore

      • Re: Not unreasonable (Score:5, Interesting)

        by MBGMorden ( 803437 ) on Tuesday July 19, 2022 @03:21PM (#62716822)

        I'd wait to see how smart their algorithm is before assuming it'll get it wrong. Usage from multiple IP's isn't necessarily a red flag.

        Usage from multiple IP's simultaneously is a little harder to explain - particularly if there are separate profiles that typically are used with each IP consistently with watch patterns which suggest that the persons using each profile are different people.

        • Re: (Score:3)

          by jythie ( 914043 )
          Looking at the details they have posted so far, it appears they are only targeting TVs and are not restricting laptops/phones or other mobile devices.

          TBH, this really strikes me as Netflix trying to meet people half way, and after seeing so many draconian methods media companies have come up with in the past, it is kinda refreshing.
        • I suppose if you assume that there aren't any families where one person often travels for work that would make sense.
        • Actually, I don't know what a "home" is? A single house/physical location? The people that lives in it? A family group? There is already a premium on "using more than X devices", which is reasonable and proportional to usage. Much better to stay with that.

        • Usage from multiple IP's simultaneously is a little harder to explain - particularly if there are separate profiles that typically are used with each IP consistently with watch patterns which suggest that the persons using each profile are different people.

          If my TV didn't make signing in/out of Netflix profiles a giant pain in the ass then I might have more faith in this. Effectively, we only ever use one profile on the TV _ever_ because of this.

        • Maybe they should borrow the old Borland "like a book" license. You can use it on as many devices as you want as long as you're only using on one at any time. Then, if your account is being used on multiple devices at the same time, there's an extra charge per device.

        • They can tell what devices it's from. So if it's the same tablet or laptop that has been used before they're likely to not care. It's when a new device shows up and is being used in a new location that the issue might be flagged. Especially if both devices and/or locations end up being active at the same time.

          • I would be willing to bet that in addition to those checks, you would only be flagged if you use the extra device(s) for more than some number of days.

            There are some hotel entertainment systems these days that are geared to allow you to enter your streaming media credentials for the time that you have the room and then reset automatically for the next guest. This would appear to Netflix to be a completely new device.

        • What if you travel and your partner is at home, it doesn't take a genius multiple ip access is a valid use case.

          Its simple if you have paid for X screens you should be able to use X screens. Its a worrying trend I don't see technology actually improving our lives but used to control it for profit. Seriously I am sure people used to lend books, movies, video games out to people all the time because the tech wasn't there it wasn't stopped and the world didn't end, books still got written, games still got made

          • You didn't pay for X screens, you paid for X screens used by one household.

            Say you live at A with your partner, and you paid for 2 screens under one household. You will have lots of views at A, possibly two views at A if you have two TVs or a TV and an iPad. If you give someone your password, you will have lots of views at A and lots of views at B at the same time. If one of you travels a lot, you will have lots of views at A, and lots of views all over the place. That's easy to distinguish after a while

            • Exactly. Constantly shifting IP's isn't that suspicious - particularly from a device that is a mobile device (web/pc client or a phone client).

              On the other hand a TV client that is watching over 10 hours of content per week at location A - consistently, and the same account being used across town at location B also watching several hours per week - consistently, is almost certainly a shared account.

              As I said in my original post - wait to see about the quality of the algorithm before complaining about poten

      • This.

        Wireguard FTW in your case (which is similar to my case).

        Tailscale is also very, very cool for this purpose.

      • You can watch it on a laptop of phone while traveling but not on a "TV" for over a two week time period.

        Their new policy:
        A "Netflix Homes" FAQ clarifies that users "can watch Netflix on your laptop or mobile device while traveling" and "watch Netflix on a TV outside your home for up to two weeks as long as your account has not been previously used in that location. This is allowed once per location per year."

        So, just bring a HDMI cable and connect your laptop to the visiting TV. Problem solved.

        • And what happens when your kid goes off to college? They just aren't allowed to use their profile anymore?

          • Guess that you will need to pay the extra $3 or whatever for them to leech off your account... It's better than having to pay for an entirely new account.

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by jbengt ( 874751 )

            And what happens when your kid goes off to college?

            There's plenty for them to do other than watch TV at college, like studying and partying. The least I've ever watched TV was during college, probably watched less than 1 hour a week then.

      • Exactly netflix is installed on my main tv, 2 phones 2 tablets and my rv tv.

        If netflix thinks my rv or tablets connectong from misc campground wifi is a second user they will get dropped

        Then only reasons i havent dropped them yet is because they allow downloaded content. Which means the tablets can play movies and shows on the road.

      • Because in all case you cited you actually are the only person *using* it (nobody using netflix in parallel at another location). Now if you had an SO using it while you are using it somewhere else, yes indeed that looks like it.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by N1AK ( 864906 )
        The limitation doesn't kick in unless you are using the connection from another location for at least a couple of weeks and doesn't affect watching on phones/tablets/laptops/PCs. Sure there are scenarios where this would kick in that aren't account sharing but we're well into largely theoretical territory.

        I dropped my Netflix subscription because it just isn't competitive vs some of their competitors, but I suspect that is because those competitors are heavily discounting and those rates won't last forev

      • I do not have a 2nd home but my data might suggest I do.

        No it won't. Your data will suggest you move around a lot.

        Me on the other hand who worked in a different country to where I lived and stayed at the same Marriott for 4 years Mon-Thurs, MY data would suggest I have a second home, and that data isn't wrong.

      • In that case the question is how clever they are cutting off people from different households. Lets say you can watch two channels, and gave your password to a mate living 5 miles away. They can see that very often the same account watches programs from the same two locations, five miles apart.

        But if you use Netflix at home, hotels, vacation rentals, maybe while the kids are at home, you have one viewer at a fixed locations, and lots of views from all over the place, but never the same location. That's a
      • Agreed.

        There is also the VPN option; which also adds to the overall cost.

    • Re: (Score:2, Troll)

      by AmazingRuss ( 555076 )
      We expect, nay are ENTITLED to have people create entertainment for us at no cost. Having to pay them at all is a terrible injustice.

      • Netflix made 7.8B last year, an increase of 10% from the previous year. They are clearly hurting for cash so we should all give them extra money for the same service just because they wanted to change the terms after the fact.

        • Those numbers ignore the fact that they re-invested most of those profits back into more content. Simply looking at revenue or profits doesn't tell you much about a businesses success or where they sit financially.

          • Re: (Score:1, Flamebait)

            by SvnLyrBrto ( 62138 )

            Oh? Where and what *IS* this additional content? 'Cuz from where I'm sitting, Netflix sure as hell seems to be dropping more and more shows over the last several years. No one else has my login. And I seriously doubt I watch TV enough when I travel to trigger any detection algorithms. And I have zero doubt that they have other content on the service that's worse than Chapelle's vile anti-LGBT hatefest. So neither of those are going to chase me away.

            But they keep dropping shows that I do or did watch.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by dgatwood ( 11270 )

          Netflix made 7.8B last year, an increase of 10% from the previous year. They are clearly hurting for cash so we should all give them extra money for the same service just because they wanted to change the terms after the fact.

          I'm pretty sure their terms of service never allowed a single account to be used by multiple households. But now, there's no reason not to talk to your neighbors and reduce your bill by splitting an account across multiple households. I have a feeling that this will backfire in the long term.

        • New shows just sprout up from the ground, free for the picking, don't they?

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by EvilSS ( 557649 )
        Exactly. If what you make can be copied over and over, then it has not value and is therefore not work but a hobby. Want money? I hear McDonald's is hiring.
    • Because it is a plain as day greed.
      There was no need for this until they finally lost enough subscribers.
      So instead of trying to replace what was lost, there are going to charge more.

  • Kids & Travel? (Score:3)

    by tempo36 ( 2382592 ) on Tuesday July 19, 2022 @02:56PM (#62716732)

    So if I go to someone else's house can I login using my account while I'm there? On my laptop while traveling? What about my kid who lives with me...can she continue to use our login when she is visiting her grandparents or traveling? I honestly don't have a problem with cracking down on people sharing between true different households, but if we're paying for the service, we should be able to use it regardless of where we're physically located at the time that I log in.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Rhipf ( 525263 )

      I would think that it would be rather trivial to see if the account is being used in two different locations at the same time. If the logins in different locations don't happen at the same time then just charge the normal fee (assume that the person owing the account is just traveling). If the logins from different locations are occurring at the same time then charge the extra home fee (assume that the account is being shared between households).
      This still may cause your kid to trip the extra house fee (ass

      • My kid is 10, so he/she is definitely part of my household....

      • This still may cause your kid to trip the extra house fee (assuming someone else is also using the account in a second location) but unless your kid has their own account what you are describing is sharing the account between households.

        What if the parents are divorced. the kid primarily lives with one parent who has the account the kid is a user on. The other parent also has an account, but it is not used by the kid. When the kid is at the other parent's house using the account from the other parent, it's technically in use in a second household, but also a household that happens to have an account.

        Streaming services were designed to be portable with the users. Accounts allow for multiple simultaneous streams and multiple user profil

        • Re: (Score:1)

          by Rhipf ( 525263 )

          If the parents are divorced and $2-$3 a month makes that much difference maybe they should think twice about even having Netflix.
          Why can't the child use the Netflix account of the second parent? If that parent doesn't want to have their profile messed up with the child's viewing then just set up a separate profile for the child to use when at the second parent's.

          • Talk about degrading of service. The kid is watching a show on their profile at Parent A, then heads over to the other parent's house and has to setup a whole second profile? Sure its doable but its absurd. In my case my kid went to college. He still uses our netflix account and has his own profile. Additional fees like this will end Netflix. Streaming was always about being a more convenient way to consume content. Take away the convenience and there's no reason to continue.

          • Just because they CAN afford $2-3 doesn't mean they clearly SHOULD have to pay it. If the kid is part of your household, they should be able to use the things from your household even if they're sitting in a different house.

      • How? We use the same user, can't be be bothered changing it 2 people to streams 2 locations 1 household.

        If you said each stream had to have a different user, then for multiple households the solution is simple log on as a different user for each household.

        • The simple solution is to use linked accounts instead of profiles. Then when your kid goes to college they continue using their account from a consistent location and we don't have to deal with yet more service fees. Streaming used to be a lot cheaper than cable and gave you more of what you wanted. Since I didn't give a rats ass about sports I didn't have any interest in paying the crazy rates ESPN charges. YoutubeTV was great like that until they brought them in and raised prices yet again. Now we forgo i
      • Trivial? How do you account for people like me that bring their firestick with them when they travel for work? Logging in from a hotel halfway across the country? How about when my wife and I travel to visit her parents in Florida for a week or two, signing into our account on their firestick, while my brother in law continues to use his TV in our house? Or when one of us forgets to turn off the VPN so it appears like it is being used in another country while the others continue to watch from our

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by mysidia ( 191772 )

      can she continue to use our login when she is visiting her grandparents or traveling?

      I would guess probably not. Some customers abused it, so all must suffer.

      Then again.. She might be fine visiting there, So long as her grandparents have a valid Netflix account, then perhaps they will already be a "paid" household.

      There could be a similar practice considered for Hotel WiFi networks and 'Rental' houses: As long as the hotel pays a per-room fee to Netflix, then their network could becomes a "Paid househ

    • Their algorithm is likely a little more advanced than simply looking for multiple IPs. Multiple IP's with simultaneous usage is more suspicious. Profile A almost always being logged in on IP #1 and Profile B almost always being used on IP #2 with little crossover would also be a red flag.

      Plus I'm sure there's an "amount of usage" threshold involved where a few hours here and there isn't going to trip anything.

      Any modern algorithm is going to have a significant amount of heuristic information in determinin

    • Re: (Score:3)

      by jythie ( 914043 )
      Reading through their details, looks like it does not impact mobile devices (so laptops or phones), and you get a two week grace period per location per year if you want to use your login on a TV-like device outside your home. The lowest tier package also includes one free 'away' location, so if there is some common case (like kid visiting grandparents) that will consume more than 2 weeks per year, you can cover that.

    • Yes you can. Travelling is not a second home. Analytically it's very easy to tell apart.

  • So instead of getting my friend creds and watching legally, I am going to sail the scurvy seas.

    • So instead of getting my friend creds and watching legally, I am going to sail the scurvy seas.

      I put my eyepatch back on when there started to be too many streaming services.
      I am NOT going back to the days of cable TV.
      TPB is one stop shoplifting. :)

    • Is that permissible under the current licencing? If not, it was already illegal despite using your friend's creds.
  • The problem is not the money... is how they are going to detect a new home? that requires precise location (geofencing) per device per account, what happens with mobile users, wisp networks, shared ip cafes (still a thing outside first world countries). How many meters/feet square i have to move before they start considering it "a new home", this is going to be interesting how it develops, a real tech challenge that may be difficult to address on global scale, PPV providers usually tie service per account
    • It's actually rather trivial. Your mobile device can be identified easily as the same device, no matter what IP (home or phone provider) you're connecting from. They'll likely just look for things like streaming from multiple locations at a time. They know what type of device you're logged in on. If a single account is streaming from two smart TVs in wildly different locations at the same time, that's easy to determine and call account sharing. You're really overthinking this. It's not about catching every
      • Exactly. The goal is at the same time to catch out as many sharers against the rule (and make them pay, they still save money), while having the smallest possible number of genuine customers that you annoy.

  • Wow, I see nobody's pointed out that they've started rolling this out in countries that are predominantly poor. Granted, the poor are probably not on netflix, and its all the middle class/rich folk that use netflix, so they probably can afford it -- I just find it interesting the countries they've chose to experiment with first.

    • If you are going to test in production...

    • You start in countries with few paying customers, so you upset few paying customers if it goes wrong. (I was told Burger King tests all new products in Europe in the Netherlands first. To limit the possible damage if they don't like it).
  • Just run a socks proxy on a Pi and make all the account-sharers stream through there provided you have the bandwidth to waste

    Or else just use thepiratebay...
  • been looking for an excuse to cancel for months now. Thanks Netflix, you're saving me $16/mo.
  • I already left Netflix, I just hope someone finds out how they figure that out.

  • Try that shit in the US (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Cpt_Kirks ( 37296 ) on Tuesday July 19, 2022 @03:22PM (#62716828)

    And watch your stock REALLY tank.

    There is more worthless shit than watchable on there now.

    I already cancelled Hulu and Netflix is probably next.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by skam240 ( 789197 )

      Yes, all those people getting the service for free who will now be forced to either leave the service or pay will really hurt Netflix's bottom line...

      • Actually it might, my parents have Disney plus for my children they don't watch it at all, if the my children's ability to watch it was removed/reduced then they would probably drop it.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by skam240 ( 789197 )

          I think they're likely to get just as many users signing up with this move as they will dropping the service as some of the users currently getting it for free are likely to sign up. I'm certain Netflix has done plenty of research on this and I imagine at the very least this is what they're thinking will happen even if it turns out to not be. I cant imagine billion dollar plus companies like this just spasmodically implement major policy without doing their homework first.

  • I am a NETFLIX INVESTOR (Score:1, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward

    I have had it with you fuckfaces that don't wanna pay. Pay up. Pay up! TIme for you freeloaders to pay up! I need to make some money. Since November 2021, I the stock price has gone $680 to $200 today. DO YOU REALIZE HOW MUCH FUCKING MONEY I LOST THANKS TO YOU? Fuck you man. Fuck you!!!!

    You have no idea what it's like to be an investor these days. Soon enough, companies won't exist anymore. You won't have any products or services because there won't be anyone willing to risk their money to build a company.

    • Re:I am a NETFLIX INVESTOR (Score:4, Funny)

      by backslashdot ( 95548 ) on Tuesday July 19, 2022 @04:01PM (#62716936)

      Thanks for the stock tip. I read this and decided to invest in Atascadero State Hospital for the Criminally Insane.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by Toad-san ( 64810 )

        Uhhhh ... mate, I don't know how to tell you this. But I sincerely doubt that a state institution is selling stock. That institution's web site wouldn't be in Nigeria now, would it?

    • Ya know... if people had money, maybe they would pay for things. But they don't, so your investments were crap. Go cry to your mommy for not telling you that the economic situation in America is only going to get worse. Keep investing though! They need your money since nobody else has any.

  • If this hits Europe, Netflix will lose a lot of accounts.
    For example ours, three friends that got a 4 screen account.
    Since the beginning of Netflix.

    I watch Netflix a couple of times a year, but not every month,
    because seriously, there's not much on there I want to watch.
    We keep this around in case something shows up (like Arcane)
    my other friends feel the same.

    If they'd stop us from sharing, we'd cancel and then start service hopping.
    I'd probably hop to Paramount, where all the star trek stuff went. Also I'd

    • I watch Netflix a couple of times a year, but not every month, because seriously, there's not much on there I want to watch.

      An obvious thing to put into their algorithm. If you pay for four channels, used by a dozen households for three hours a week in total, it would be clever to leave that account alone and keep taking the money forever.

  • Since forever Netflix had "One account per household" and/or "One account per person" clauses on their ToS, but eforcement was lax.

    If you are not in violation of the ToS, but Netflix's Algos flag you, you would be very right to complain and/or drop their service.

    If this new enforcement/crackdown devalues somehow the service for you (say, because you travel a lot), you can always drop their service or go to a lower priced tier, maybe that ad supported tier they are preparing ;-)

    https://tech.slashdot.org/st [slashdot.org]

    • Vote with your wallet, but remember, the fact that enforcement was Lax before does not mean that the ToS were not there from day one...

      In general I agree with you, but I submit that the lax enforcement was a part of the draw.

      When Netflix first started its streaming service, it had lots of content from lots of studios - Disney, Paramount, NBC/Universal, and so on, and it did it for $8/month and you could generally share it with a friend or two. Something that was particularly common in my friend circles was for friend #1 to have Netflix and friend #2 to have Hulu, with each sharing the account with the other.

      Since then, the price has essent

  • It may be just me that is rubbish, but I just can't seem to find an alphabetical list of what shows Netflix are offering and how long they will be available.
    Since I can't judge what they have, I cannot say if it is worth whatever they are asking, so, no sale.

  • Where do I sign up? I think I'd like one on the beach please!

  • Password sharing aside - I only share the password with my wife - this looks like a horrible implementation for anyone having access to a vacation home/cottage which they go to frequently, as in more than once a year.

    To make it worse, Netflix disabled airplay just to be evil [theverge.com] - it was working, then they blocked it.

    As a side note - when you sell 4 screens, don't be surprised if people want that value out of it. If Netflix just dropped those shenanigans for customers to get full quality on the streams so peopl

    • Disabling airplay: It seems they allow you to use Netflix on mobile devices and treat TVs differently. It would make totally sense to treat "iPhone with airplay" as a full TV but allow it to work.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by teg ( 97890 )

        Disabling airplay: It seems they allow you to use Netflix on mobile devices and treat TVs differently. It would make totally sense to treat "iPhone with airplay" as a full TV but allow it to work.

        Or just allow it to work, no ifs or buts. The other services work with it. My use cases for it are both the vacation home (owned by my parents), if I visit somewhere, or even a hotel. In the first case, I don't want to replace other's login credentials and in the second case I don't want to enter any credentials at all.

        Or just do the same thing - don't add these restrictions, and realign the subscriptions as to not focus on how many screens you can view at the same time. If that is the value add, then of

  • You know, children of divorced parents? Seems fair to charge more money.
  • How will Netflix sort out whether its actually another household, or whether the subscriber is traveling? That will be especially complicated for families, because you could easily have the account used both away by the traveler, and at home by family members who are not traveling.

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