The End of Netflix Password Sharing Is Nigh (wsj.com) 117
The end of password sharing is coming to Netflix soon -- and it will be a challenge for both viewers and the streaming giant. From a report: The company has put off this moment for years. Researchers inside Netflix identified password sharing as a major problem eating into subscriptions in 2019, people familiar with the situation say, but the company was worried about how to address it without alienating consumers. Then Covid lockdowns hit, bringing a wave of new subscribers, and the effort to scrutinize sharing petered out.
More than 100 million Netflix viewers now watch the service using passwords they borrow -- often from family members or friends, the company says. Netflix has said that it will put an end to that arrangement starting in 2023, asking people who share accounts to pay to do so. The company expects to begin rolling out the change in the U.S. early in the year. Netflix's crackdown risks squandering years of goodwill the company has built up over the years and angering consumers, who have a crowd of other streaming services to choose from.
More than 100 million Netflix viewers now watch the service using passwords they borrow -- often from family members or friends, the company says. Netflix has said that it will put an end to that arrangement starting in 2023, asking people who share accounts to pay to do so. The company expects to begin rolling out the change in the U.S. early in the year. Netflix's crackdown risks squandering years of goodwill the company has built up over the years and angering consumers, who have a crowd of other streaming services to choose from.
If it's done well... (Score:5, Insightful)
I don't mind paying a little extra to have a sanctioned way to share a single account.
If they just allow user management within the account and then charge a reasonable fee for each additional user, then that works for me.
That's how it should have been all along.
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Agreed. I had youtube TV until they started blocking family sharing - around the same time they increased their pricing. For an extra 5 or 10 dollars, I would have continued with it.
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Consumers are idiots. That inch you just gave them, you'll never get back.
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Re:If it's done well... (Score:5, Insightful)
The problem is Netflix has not been clear about how they are going to determine "sharing" and I genuinely have no idea if this is going to affect my wife and I or not.
Most of the time we're in the same house watching the same show, or occasionally different shows in different rooms if one of us is busy and wants background noise while the other watches a show or when one of us is not interested in a particular show.
But every couple of weeks my wife has to travel to the nearest city for a couple of days for medical treatment, and she stays in a small apartment we rented while I stay at our house and take care of things there. When that happens, we're watching TV from two different locations (even though it's the same content that we usually watch from the same house).
We're not sharing our account with anyone else, but it's entirely possible Netflix will decide we are. If they do, we'll simply cancel the service, but the fact that they haven't been clear about what to expect has been irritating.
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The problem is Netflix has not been clear about how they are going to determine "sharing" and I genuinely have no idea if this is going to affect my wife and I or not.
Most of the time we're in the same house watching the same show, or occasionally different shows in different rooms if one of us is busy and wants background noise while the other watches a show or when one of us is not interested in a particular show.
But every couple of weeks my wife has to travel to the nearest city for a couple of days for medical treatment, and she stays in a small apartment we rented while I stay at our house and take care of things there. When that happens, we're watching TV from two different locations (even though it's the same content that we usually watch from the same house).
We're not sharing our account with anyone else, but it's entirely possible Netflix will decide we are. If they do, we'll simply cancel the service, but the fact that they haven't been clear about what to expect has been irritating.
Hasn't Netflix always allowed two endpoints per account? I don't know if there is a restriction on those two screens being in the same house.
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The problem is Netflix has not been clear about how they are going to determine "sharing" and I genuinely have no idea if this is going to affect my wife and I or not.
I would imagine not, but obviously this is going to depend upon your subscription:
"4.2 The Netflix service and any content ... may not be shared with individuals beyond your household..."
"4.3 You may access the Netfix content primarily within the country in which you have established your account... The number of devices on which you may simultaneously watch depends on your chosen subscription plan..."
You and your wife are clearly of the same household, even if you're not always in the same house. Further,
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They're being vague because they don't yet know how to characterise the rules. In your case the two locations thing is probably okay, but in someone else's case, it isn't because the other location is a neighbours house, and so not a family member.
Netflix know that making a mess of this will cause people like you to simply cancel. They're good, but they're not so good that you'll stick around after being punched in the face. Hence they're moving very slowly and (hopefully) carefully. My guess is they'll go
Re:If it's done well... (Score:5, Funny)
I don't mind paying a little extra to have a sanctioned way to share a single account.
Have I got a deal for you. Pay double and we'll give you two separate logins!
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nope, because i see netflix one a week tops, not gonna pay full price my sister also do the same, my father is the one that use it several times a week.
not being able to share will mean that me and my sister will stop seeing netflix and my father account can be downgraded, because that is more than enough
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Honestly, I might not even mind this... if it were easy to switch between accounts on most devices. On a PC, it's not super hard to log out and log back in as a different user, especially if you have a decent password manager. Mostly the same on a phone. But on a TV, it's a pain. Sure it's easy to switch between profiles on a single account, but switching to a different *account* on a TV is annoying at best.
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I guess that depends. Most services just have X number of profiles and that is fine. I certainly wouldn't be okay with other family members in my home needing additional accounts unless they are slashing the price per user to about 20% of the current monthly subscription cost.
Netflix has been jacking the price up and up and up while their quality has gone down, down, down along with getting more and more woke.
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It's already sanctioned (Score:3)
I don't mind paying a little extra to have a sanctioned way to share a single account.
It clearly already is sanctioned by Netflix given that they sell accounts that allow for multiple simultaneous screens. The only way this makes sense is if you are sharing your account with someone else.
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I don't mind paying a little extra to have a sanctioned way to share a single account.
It clearly already is sanctioned by Netflix given that they sell accounts that allow for multiple simultaneous screens. The only way this makes sense is if you are sharing your account with someone else.
What they're sanctioning is multiple people within the same household using the account at the same time. This is clearly spelled out in the subscriber agreement ("Section 4.2 The Netflix service and any content ... may not be shared with individuals beyond your household..."). That their marketing department has in the past tweeted "Love is sharing your Netflix password" probably doesn't constitute a binding commitment on their part to allow sharing with individuals from different households.
The end of Netflix is nigh (Score:5, Insightful)
A year from now Disney or Microsoft will own Netflix.
Re:The end of Netflix is nigh (Score:5, Interesting)
Disney did indeed kill Netflix. Not directly, but by buying Marvel and Lucasfilm then making those properties only available on Disney's platform.
I can't understand the worldview held by regulators that couldn't foresee such an abuse of that M&A activity.
I'd probably tolerate Disney more than Microsoft though. I feel like Disney is more "honest" in the way they abuse people...
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Disney did indeed kill Netflix. Not directly, but by buying Marvel and Lucasfilm then making those properties only available on Disney's platform.
I'm not sure I understand what you mean. Based on my reading of Slashdot everyone is tired and not interested in comic book movies, and all the Starwars IP since episode 7 has been a joke.
Ok jokes aside, no Disney did not kill Netflix doing this, everyone banded together to kill Netflix by first partying all their content and turning online streaming into on-demand cable. Marvel and Star Wars alone don't have that much power alone, but these days it's starting to get a bit hard to find which service which b
Re:The end of Netflix is nigh (Score:5, Interesting)
they all killed each other, piracy is on the rise again, people do not want to pay 3 or 4 streaming services, it is much easier to go online and see ALL the movies on pirated sites (or pirated streaming services, that work very well and are cheap)
They need to do cross-license movies and shows or all will just lose money
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Yeah I remembered Fox just after I hit submit. But also, don't dismiss Marvel and Lucasfilm... many people have children....
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what children want is Disney movies, teens may want those, but they also know how to pirate them
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No, for the Lucas film it is, but not for Marvel. Marvel franchises were being very actively developed including with Netflix originals before Disney bought the rights to it.
But yes Starwars was effectively not being invested in prior to 2012.
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I feel like Disney is more "honest" in the way they abuse people...
Disney sells entertainment, which people don't really need. MS sells tools, which many people need whether they like it or not.
Between the two, I'd prefer a purchase by Disney. It's easier to avoid buying their stuff.
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I can't understand the worldview held by regulators that couldn't foresee such an abuse of that M&A activity.
I'd probably tolerate Disney more than Microsoft though. I feel like Disney is more "honest" in the way they abuse people...
That's how winners win the meritocracy. The key to winning the meritocracy is inherited wealth, connections, nepotism and corruption, not ability and bootstrap pulling.
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^^^ This ^^^
They do the same "error" all the time. Emphasis on "error", since it can only be an unintentional omission.
In the food industry, retail markets, distributors, and manufacturers used to be separate. Now everyone buys Kirkland cheese and Great Value milk. Why buy the expensive brand, when store brand is "as good". This might sound pro-consumer due to lower prices, but completely unsustainable since it kills one manufacturer after another. (Do you know who manufactures your cheese this week). And w
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I could see the Warner Brothers wanting to buy it as well. They already own Discovery+ and HBO Max, and adding Netflix to that would make it an even better bundle than Disney's Disney+/Hulu/ESPN+ combo.
For the same reason, I could see Amazon or Paramount also wanting Netflix.
If it is a true hindrance to their bottom line... (Score:2)
So, which way will the leeches jump... (Score:1)
Will the they start suddenly paying for what they were getting for free? Or just start pirating?
And once the account holders see what their friends are doing, will they follow suit?
Re:So, which way will the leeches jump... (Score:4, Insightful)
The vast majority of those sharing passwords have no technical ability to pirate shows/movies. They're peoples parents, siblings, and even grandparents. They won't switch to pirating. Grandma won't be visiting The Pirate Bay any time soon.
And what's it matter if they do? These people were paying Netflix nothing, so they're out nothing by those folks switching to pirating. Plus Netflix is no longer paying for the bandwidth those folks use, so there's a savings there.
Re:So, which way will the leeches jump... (Score:5, Interesting)
I wonder how many people don't actually use their Netflix account all that often, but kept it running because they had a friend or family member leeching off of them?
I'll be curious how many people will cancel their accounts because they suddenly get prompted to pay up for a second account.
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That number is likely very small. Enough that it won't make a difference.
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sorry, but most of the older parents that use netflix are exactly this example, they know nothing about computers and tech, they sons or grandsons do that and setup everything ... their parents use it and those that pay the bills use it some times (but more and more unhappy do the content removal)
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How freaking old are these older parents? Computers have been in homes for 40 years. Were the 1960s filled with grandparents riding horses everywhere and calling for a priest to exorcise the local cinema?
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hey, you have a range between 25 and 55 of people that know how to work with computers, older usually aren't techy enough, newer only now apps in cell phones
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Yes they will. They will eiter stop watching or figure out how to pirate. MANY people do not agree with Disney's politics; they have no problem pirating from them or just ignoring them. And once they start disabusing themselves from these dumb ass media networks they SLOWLY start to lose political party loyalty. That is a super win in my book. And all it took was piracy.
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MANY people do not agree with Disney's politics
What, make money over everything? Yeah, its a dick move.
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So did you subscribe to Disney when you found out it was founded by a Nazi, or were you just happy to find that after you signed up?
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The vast majority of those sharing passwords have no technical ability to pirate shows/movies. They're peoples parents, siblings, and even grandparents. They won't switch to pirating. Grandma won't be visiting The Pirate Bay any time soon.
And what's it matter if they do? These people were paying Netflix nothing, so they're out nothing by those folks switching to pirating. Plus Netflix is no longer paying for the bandwidth those folks use, so there's a savings there.
The big problem isn't people sharing their accounts with friends and family, it's with people literally reselling accounts to multiple people. Often in a pyramid scheme. This is predominant in developing nations where people do not A) commonly have a bank card and; B) do not regularly have $10 a month to spare. So the same account gets rented out to dozens of people by those who can afford it, even though they're only renting them out at $1 a month, that x 30 or more is a healthy profit.
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I've certainly seen that you can buy a login and pass for a buck or two on the dark web.
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some folks I know are gonna start running a VPN on their home network for their parents; so the sharing just looks like it's coming from inside the house. Get some use out of their upload pipes and keep it transparent for the old folks with one tweak of the router
I don't get it. (Score:2)
Re: I don't get it. (Score:2)
They support ipv6, so it's definitely not that simple.
I have a single valid account but... (Score:2)
I use it on my phone, on my tablet, on my smart tvs, and in hotels if they have smart tvs that allow me to log into netflix.
I hope that, whatever they do, I will still be able to continue to use my legitimate account in these same ways...
Re: I have a single valid account but... (Score:2)
Probably force you to interact with the primary account holders device every time you want to watch on a non-home device
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In other words, you only ever have a single stream or maybe two running from your account at any given time.
I don't think that will be a problem.
I'm both impressed and scared (Score:3)
How did they know my password was "Nigh"?
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If you give me your login ID, I'll do some research into how they found your password. You know, for science purposes?
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Wait, that was your WHOLE password? I thought just the end was nigh. I have been brute forcing all sorts of combinations ending in nigh this whole time.
The problem with doing something like this (Score:2)
When you do stuff like this you cause people to reevaluate their subscriptions and it results in a massive wave of cancellations. At a time when Netflix really doesn't want to lose subscribers.
That said I'm a nerd and a weirdo so I can't say for sure if people are going to hang around Netflix after they do this. Most of their conten
then what are the "proflies" for? (Score:3)
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I don't think sharing within the household is at risk, and that includes multiple devices and multiple people and even multiple locations (e.g. work trip).
The crackdown here is against people sharing their password with their friend across town, or their extended family in another country, or even their kids who have flown the nest.
I make no judgement on this activity at all. We have extended family members overseas who use our login. But it's probably quite reasonable for Netflix to limit an account to a h
Re: then what are the "proflies" for? (Score:2)
Re:then what are the "proflies" for? (Score:5, Interesting)
The crackdown here is against people sharing their password with their friend across town, or their extended family in another country, or even their kids who have flown the nest.
That last one is likely to result in a massive breach-of-contract class action against Netflix. A lot of kids who "have flown the nest" are actually away at college. At least in the United States, those kids are legally considered part of their parents' household until they finish their undergraduate degree in most cases (and potentially even afterwards) even while physically residing in another state. And Netflix's terms of use don't define "household" differently, so the normal legal definition can be assumed to apply.
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And Netflix's terms of use don't define "household" differently, so the normal legal definition can be assumed to apply.
So they'll change the Ts&Cs before this comes into effect to add their own definition of "household", applicable from next month, no breach of contract since you're free to cancel at that point if you don't like it?
Surely they have a legal team who will ensure this is pretty watertight.
And then they lose their entire college audience overnight.
Just wait until M$ owns Netflix (Score:1)
They will make you sign a EULA and install some creepy call home software. Then they will force you to use an Outlook.com email account to register with Netflix.
Then they will insist that all TV manufacturers introduce UEFI and TPM in order to install the Netflix app.
Of course..." If your device does not meet these requirements, you may not be able to install Windows 11 on your device and might want to consider purchasing a new PC." This is directly from Microsoft's website. We are setting down a bunch of a
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> Then they will insist that all TV manufacturers
> introduce UEFI and TPM in order to install the Netflix
> app.
Nah... they'll just minimize development and withhold new features from the Netflix app running on anything besides xBox and cripple the website on any browser besides IE/Edge. See, for example, the saga of IE being left to rot into decrepitude on the Mac; leading directly to Apple creating Safari. Or you can look to the "browser wars" and their efforts to push webApp developers to use A
Travelling away from home (Score:5, Insightful)
Sharing your password with friends who don’t even live with you is an abuse. I’ve no problem with Netflix clamping down on this.
However, I frequently travel for work. I use my Netflix account from Fire sticks I plug into hotel room TV. At the same time, my partner is watching TV at home, on the main living room TV. Will Netflix be able to distinguish this behaviour, and allow it? Because as a paying customer promised the right to use two devices at once, I will be very pissed off if I get blocked.
Re: Travelling away from home (Score:2)
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They allow the use of a Ãoemobile deviceÃ.
Some hotels have TV systems that allow you to log into Netflix and other services and automatically log you out when you check out of the hotel. Are these also going to be exempted? Would they show up as different device?
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Sharing your password with friends who don’t even live with you is an abuse.
Why, EXACTLY, is it abuse? Be precise. I pay Netflix for "4 simultaneous 4k streams," I should actually be able to use 4 simultaneous 4k streams. No more, no less. Who gives a shit if it's me, my mistress in her hotel room, my bestie Russian pen-pal, any my neighbor's goldfish? IMHO, that's none of Netflix's business if they insist on segmenting plans based on "number + quality of streams"
The only "abuse" is slogging through the inevitable people in these threads equating a "sale not made to my neighbo
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What you have been paying for is "4 simultaneous 4k streams, all within a single household"
Well now there's an interesting thing. You see, me, my wife and my 2 kids are all members of the same household. So there's me watching at home, one kid watching whilst he's at school, the other kid from Japan where he's on a student exchange program, and my wife watching from her hotel room where she's staying for work... That's 4 simultaneous 4k streams, all within a single household. Perhaps they mean 4 simultaneous streams, all of which must be served by a single router, with Netflix only delivering to
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Sharing your password with friends who don’t even live with you is an abuse.
Quite simply, no, it isn't. The people who refuse to pay for Netflix, but happily borrow a password, were NEVER going to pay for Netflix. It's the same thing as any other piracy - you can't lose money you never made and were never going to. They will resort to other forms of piracy if they want to watch a show or be happy enough on missing out.
In fact, I can guarantee, password sharing has, if anything, helped increase Netflix subscriber numbers; not lower them. This policy will cause their numbers to go d
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The people who refuse to pay for Netflix, but happily borrow a password, were NEVER going to pay for Netflix..
You're looking at it backwards. You, as a subscriber, agreed to terms when you signed up for the service. Lending out your account to others is an abuse of that agreement.
At any rate, the "they weren't going to pay for it anyway" argument is such a tired excuse. If one isn't going to pay for something, one isn't entitled to it and it isn't one's right to consume it; do without.
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Sharing your password with friends who don’t even live with you is an abuse.
How so? They used to actively promote sharing passwords. "Love is sharing a password." [newsweek.com]
Changing your mind, then getting uppity at your customers for consistently giving them less and less for consistently increasing fees is abusive. Using the service in the manner they advertised is not.
Luckily, when Netflix finally folds, nothing of value will be lost. They're burning out all the good will and positive memories they created over the last 20 something years.
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Will Netflix be able to distinguish this behaviour, and allow it?
Why wouldn't they? It is trivial behaviour to identify.
Aged terribly... (Score:1)
Why does that sound familiar? (Score:2)
"People who download our movie would certainly have bought a ticket instead, so that's lost revenue!"
Remember that line?
Expensive account (Score:2)
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Everything about Netflix pricing sucks.
Meanwhile Prime Video provides three streams and UHD as part of their basic service for just $8.
How about better family accounts? (Score:1)
That'
Re: How about better family accounts? (Score:1)
How exactly they plan to enforce tha
Re: How about better family accounts? (Score:2)
All that they would need to do is enable 2-factor (Score:1)
There are many options out there. SMS, Email, Google Authenticator, Okta, or many others. They can be simple to complex. But, I would personally choose the SMS or email methods. SMS for ease and email due to needing an email address for
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If they really wanted to crack down on this (and secure the accounts from being stolen), all they would need to do is enable two factor authentication. Just have it set up that you need to re-authenticate every month or have to re-authenticate if your IP address changes. There are many options out there. SMS, Email, Google Authenticator, Okta, or many others. They can be simple to complex. But, I would personally choose the SMS or email methods. SMS for ease and email due to needing an email address for account creation in the first place.
Disney just started doing EXACTLY that. For each device I use, I have to go MFS - it's actually 3FA. Annoying but I get it. Once a month I can deal with...
How many arbritrary restrictions will this create? (Score:3)
Not what they used to be (Score:3)
The streaming service had a huge catalog at one point it's been downhill for a long time now. Without that they're nothing special in a very crowded space.
shady accounting? (Score:2)
This reminds me a bit of the argument that always comes up with software piracy. The publishers will frequently count every instance of piracy as a "lost sale". While piracy certainly DOES account for some lost sales, it should be obvious that not everything that pirates the software would have bought it if piracy hadn't been an option.
The same theory applies here - you can't count every shared password as a lost subscription. A lot of people either watch with a shared password be cause they CAN, or simp
Profiles (Score:2)
I'm out, who will stick around? (Score:2)
I've cancelled my Netflix. One of the main reasons I had it, and the more expensive 'HD' plan with 4 viewers, was to share it with my non-technical parents. They have devices at home and in their RV.
Extracting more money from me because of the shared login eliminates the value for me. The ever increasing prices and declining content has made Netflix uninteresting.
Netflix has dropped so many of the shows I was buying it for, and dramatically reduced the original content I was interested in... and they wan
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Slight correction: they didn't drop all of the shows that are no longer available on Netflix. Netflix lost the ability to purchase those shows from their publishers.
Imagine, if you will, only being able to buy Stephen King books from Barnes & Noble, but having to buy Clive Cussler books from Borders. Or buying Coca-Cola from Publix but having to buy Pepsi-Cola from Kroger.
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I actually didn't care much for the 'library', it's the original (or onboarded) content that they've cancelled. Often fairly well received shows that are cancelled to make room for mediocrity. Basically the same crap that we've been seeing from the broadcast networks for years.
Problem for Parents of Minors with Joint Custody (Score:3)
I know we aren't talking about a lot of money here, but this bugs me as a single parent who has a profile on Netflix for my kid to use on their iPad. I assume Netflix is going to flag our account when my kid logs in at their other parent's house as "password sharing" when what it is really happening is a minor is logging in from different geographical locations. In a world with so many mobile devices and quite a bit of travel, it seems like they should find a way to include individuals and not geographic locations.
As another scenario, if I travel to visit my parents, can I use my Netflix login at their house if they don't subscribe? Or is that going to get flagged too?
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Your minor isn't logging in at all if it is all on their iPad. Ask your kid next time how often he has to type his password in. If the answer is never then it's not flagged as a unique device.
Monitoring accounts for the past decade has been far more intelligent then just looking at IP addresses or geographical locations. My phone doesn't magically log me out everywhere just because I connect from my home network to my cellular one either.
Dumped Netflix (Score:2, Insightful)
There is nothing on there worth watching anymore.
There is no way to turn off autoplay. You can turn off some of the obnoxious autoplay, but not all of it everywhere.
There is no way to only see "recomendations" that are in the Original language I choose (I do not want to see dub overs or subtitled shite).
Stuff that I have already seen keeps on being recommended even though I have seen it already.
They keep changing the thumbnail so that you see the same shit with different pictures in order to make you thin
The End of Netflix Nigh (Score:2)
Netflix used to encourage you to share (Score:2)
They should fix casting as well (Score:2)
hmm (Score:2)
I've heard of people sharing their passwords with their dorm floor of even their neighborhood, which is bull shit, truly.
But for example we have 4 college age kids who live across the country, it doesn't seem unreasonable to me that they continue to use my account.
(I did however tell them that if I see it suddenly being used on unrecognized IPs, I'd change the pw and not tell them)
And how doies this work? (Score:2)
Let's say my wife and I return to Netflix at some point. we get the multiple simultaneous streams option. Normally we (Wife, Daughter, and I) are watching in the same house. I go out of state on a business trip and at the end of the day, in my hotel; room I go to log in to Netflix, they gonna accuse me of "password sharing" and block me? Not paying for that hassle.....
The only solution (Score:2)
Just set a fee per stream and accept that people are going to share.
Or even better, set a fee per hour. It could be say 10/hour. Share the password with the neighborhood and you end up with a bill in consequence.
Comment (Score:2)
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It's some weird dudes that mail you dvds
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It's a movie sharing service where people can download free and watch ad-free movies and television shows without buying DVDs. Kinda like Napster for video.