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Television

LG Wants To Reinvent How You Think of TV Picture Modes (theverge.com) 84

Posted by msmash from the closer-look dept.
Is the world ready to move beyond movie, standard, and vivid? LG seems to think so. From a report: Setting up a new TV? Ask any videophile or home theater nerd and they'll probably tell you to set your picture mode to the movie/cinema option (or whatever's closest on your particular TV) and leave it there. Traditionally, this has been the most color accurate option and leans toward a pleasant, warm white balance instead of the cooler temperature that usually accompanies "standard" modes. But there are inevitably those people who prefer the standard or vivid settings -- much to the chagrin of enthusiasts. With its new 2023 TV lineup, LG is throwing these conventional choices out the window -- if you're willing to try -- and has come up with a new way of personalizing your picture preferences. Instead of giving you a few labeled options to switch between, a new "Personalized Picture Wizard" will present you with a series of images. On each screen, you choose one or two that look best to you.

After you do this six times, the TV will formulate a preset that's based on your selections. It considers the brightness, color, and contrast levels that you indicated a preference for. LG says a ton of AI deep learning is involved throughout this process; it sampled millions of images in creating the Picture Wizard. If you're ready to see how your picture mode looks while watching real content, you can hit "apply." Obviously LG will still be offering the tried and true picture settings along with deeper calibration options; your personalized picture mode will appear right alongside those in the settings menu on 2023 LG TVs.
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LG Wants To Reinvent How You Think of TV Picture Modes More

LG Wants To Reinvent How You Think of TV Picture Modes

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  • ... so that the 2023 TV lineup could be called, "new."

    • It undoubtedly has to connect to the mothership for this functionality to work. My guess is that in anywhere from 5-15 years, you'll just get a "could not connect to online service" error message when you try to use this feature.

      "Obviously" they still need to include the old "pick a mode" option for when their online service eventually goes into the digital crapper.

  • Colourblind mode. One for every type of colour deficiency - deuteranomaly, protanomaly, protanopia, deuteranopia, tritanomaly, tritanopia, complete colour blindness and so on.

    • The accessibility options available in modern videogames is astounding when compared to the options on our displays.

    • Colourblind mode.

      Maybe even one for all those people who watch TV with the color saturation set to 11.

    • Feature provided: Samsung TVs. They don't have named settings for the colour deficiency, rather you run the app and it gives you a colour blindness test and then adjusts the colours according to how well you do in it.
      They also have accessibility such as high contrast mode for the menu and UI, as well as audio queues for all menu items, settings, and every button you press on the remote. And they got accredited by the UK Royal National Institute for Blindness for accessibility.
      https://www.rnib.org.uk/about-. [rnib.org.uk]

  • Change (Score:5, Insightful)

    by ThurstonMoore ( 605470 ) on Wednesday January 04, 2023 @03:11PM (#63180176)

    Does anyone change the mode after the first time they set the TV up?

    • Re: (Score:3)

      by Pascoea ( 968200 )
      Not on purpose.
    • Yes, I change it to LG's 'Game' mode because it's the only one that doesn't do any postprocessing on the image, including frame interpolation.

      • This. Frame interpolation sucks, even the movie directors hate it.
        https://nofilmschool.com/what-... [nofilmschool.com].

        • Motion smoothing is awesome... when it works. The only thing I hate about it is when the algorithm fails, and the motion stutters for a few frames.

          A few years ago, I digitized and remastered a 16mm film of my parents' wedding, and ran it through MVTools with MFlowFPS to do motion vector smoothing to 60fps. I swear to God, it looked like someone went back to 1968 with a in 1080p60 camcorder. Unfortunately, motion vector smoothing doesn't really work in real-time, so it can't be used for things like streaming

      • Depends on the TV. Most have several pre-set color modes and an 'advanced' mode where you can fiddle with the balances manually and adjust or disable things like motion smoothing and interpolation. Hardcore videophiles don't use the presets.
        • Yep, I am aware. With LG they all seem to add a bit of latency, and some modes have features that can't be turned off like dynamic contrast, frame interpolation, local dimming, over-saturation, APS, etc. Game mode is the only one that turns them all off by default, so it's the quick and easy option rather than finding one that's close and tweaking it *for every input*. From there you can set balances for colour calibration without interference from these value-add features. Eg with LG TVs, the Game pres

    • Does anyone change the mode after the first time they set the TV up?

      Very few.

      Most people seem to leave it set to "garish".

    • Only after watching a show that itself had the color wrong and you start to think something is set wrong on the TV. But otherwise no.

    • Does anyone change the mode after the first time they set the TV up?

      But only when watching Midnight Express.

    • Comment removed based on user account deletion

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by Rhipf ( 525263 )

        How do you know the other movies aren't also colour adjusted on purpose? Unless the cameras used to film the movie aren't calibrated properly then any "ugly tinting" is and intentional change made in editing.

      • Seeing a movie made in the 1990s is an odd sight today. The colors, lighting, and backgrounds all look normal.

    • All the time. In fact, on our TV you can set the default mode associated with various inputs so the input from the gaming console can use gaming mode and the input from the blu-ray can use Movie mode.

      Movie mode is perfect for most DVDs and blu-rays, but some are so dark you have to switch to standard, which produces trade-offs for some stuttering of pan shots. Game mode is great for video games but looks terrible for anything else (the soap opera effect). We never use the "demo" mode which has extremely h

    • There was one movie (whose name escapes me) that was too dark. But I turned up the gamma in VLC to compensate.

  • What we all really want (Score:5, Insightful)

    by TomGreenhaw ( 929233 ) on Wednesday January 04, 2023 @03:38PM (#63180238)
    Can't these guys make remotes that are easily programmed with a QR code to communicate to all our devices, i.e. sound bars, tvs, streaming devices, cable boxes, etc.. I'm sure many would gladly replace their stuff if we could have just one remote that actually works. Can't we get the basics right before working on 3D, Picture modes, etc., ad nauseum.

    HELLO??? Standards anyone??? HELLO???
    • You are looking for a universal remote then? That is a separate purchase and they already exist.

      But the easiest solution is to reduce the number of unique components. The first of which is to just use the TV as a monitor.
      • I've used four different universal remotes over the years. They take hours to get to program with device recognition and byzantine macros. The best was made by Logitech, but they stopped making them and used ones go for something like $500 on eBay these days. Yes they work - I have them and they suck. Based upon your advice, I suspect you don't have much experience dealing with them.

        Reducing the number of components isn't realistic. TV sound sucks. Built in TV streaming sucks due to limited channel suppor

        • The Harmony remotes, which required you to create an account with them in order to use them? They are not fun... but at least they did the job, and after you got the remote set up, you never had to log into their account again, so you could use a throwaway.

          I'll sound heretical, but it would be nice if a TV had a mode where it can function without a remote, period. All signal comes in via HDMI or Thunderbolt, and it shouldn't much other than just decode the signal, throw pixels on the screen, and play soun

          • I like my Harmony but it was a PITA to set up and they don't sell them anymore. I can only imagine the tech support nightmare.

            I pretty much only use my TV as a monitor, but I have to select the HDMI input for Cable or Streaming device so I need the remote to do that.

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by Zak3056 ( 69287 )

            My 11 year old Vizio does exactly what your "it would be nice" scenario asks for. I haven't seen the remote in at least five years, and its absence isn't an issue. If it's off, and I hit a button on the Roku remote, it wakes up. If I turn on the bluray player, it switches inputs automatically. The only things I have to worry about are volume control and turning the set off, and both the roku and bluray remotes have buttons for that.

            Maybe you just haven't turned on HDMI-CEC on your TV?

        • I haven't had any problems with built in smart TV features. My current is a TCL Roku. It's mostly fine. I did prefer my last one which was a Hisense Android TV. (I think the latest Hisense switches to Google TV.) That thing had great brightness. I do miss the built-in Chromecast that the Roku doesn't have....

    • My soundbar connects to my TV using E-Arc, the soundbar remote is not necessary anymore. It's a start :)

    • Nobody wants to create a standard. If a brand is going to innovate, they don't want it to work with anyone else's stuff.

      If I had the time and energy, I'd just create a universal Bluetooth remote and a receiver dongle that sits inline to your TV's main HDMI port to pass commands over HDMI-CEC. And then expose the controls with Zigbee or something.

      Not sure to what extent HDMI-CEC is feature-complete enough to be useful.

      • HDMI-CEC *is* the standard, and it is feature complete when implemented. It can control basically anything you need, including play pause rew, ffw and all that jazz for media sources, volumes, selecting channels, recording, setting timers, power control, and even has the ability to wholesale route unknown remote commands to other devices.

        It just needs to be implemented.

        • + informative. So there is a standard. Now we need to get the home entertainment guys to use it instead of working on stuff we don't want.

        • It needs to be implemented in an interoperable way. My TV and my Blu-ray player, from different manufacturers, both support it. However, the TV manufacturer put a combined play/pause button on the remote, whereas the Blu-ray player expects independent play and pause buttons. As pausing a movie is one of the most common things you want to do, that made CEC next to useless with that particular implementation.

          The other thing is that they tried to get too clever: When you turn the TV off, it automatically turns

          • It needs to be implemented in an interoperable way. My TV and my Blu-ray player, from different manufacturers, both support it. However, the TV manufacturer put a combined play/pause button on the remote, whereas the Blu-ray player expects independent play and pause buttons.

            Yes you've come across a problem of implementation. HDMI-CEC routes instructions, it does not route states. The TV doesn't know if content is playing or paused and thus the TV manufacturer shouldn't have included a combined play/pause button on the remote. HDMI-CEC allows for independent play / pause commands to be sent, but it's the responsibility of the TV to do so, and with one button the TV is incapable of doing so.

            since the VHS days so it's very difficult to unlearn

            No standard can ever defeat the muscle memory of the user :-) Fortunately you could just

        • It is used in a few devices. Both my Switch and Onn Android TV box communicate with my Samsung TV and it allows me to use my cable-supplied universal IR remote to control the Android box through the TV connection. (The Android TV box doesn't have an IR receiver so the commands have to be passed from the TV.)

          Turning either device on also turns on the TV and selects that HDMI input source. Turning either of them off also shuts off the TV.

          It's a start.

    • Err, what kind of arse backwards gear are you using that doesn't support HDMI-CEC? My TV has controlled my blueray player and hifi for over a decade with a single remote.

      • Yep, this guy clearly has an old TV. My Apple TV remote controls volume to the sound bar or receiver connected to the TV and turns on/off all devices. You only need the device specific remote for settings of that device.
      • I have an Amazon Fire TVs, a Motorola Cable Box, a Tivo, a Yamaha Home Theater, a Bose soundbar (works OK with HDMI-ARC) and a couple Samsung TVs.

        What kind of TV do you have?
    • Huh? My LG remote controls all of the things you describe. Of course I don't actually use those features since all of my devices support CEC and that's enough that I can control everything without the universal remote functionality. Do you actually have an LG TV?
      • Nope - Samsungs

        I see now that it can be enabled in settings. Maybe my Samsung remote can do everything after all.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

      That's what ARC is. We have had it for years.

      The remote control signals are sent over the HDMI cable. It works well for me, I can control my TV, shield, and soundbar with one remote.

      • Your TV has more that one ARC HDMI Port? My understanding about ARC is audio only and that there is generally only one. What if you want cable or OTA TV? My understanding is that the Shield remote will send IR or CEC commands to control TV power and sound, but not things like input selection, OTA channel and certainly not cable box control.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

          It might be eARC but I think basic ARC has remote control. My TV is a 2012 model. I have the Shield plugged into a normal non-ARC port but it works anyway. I think you only need the ARC bit for the sound system maybe.

          I dunno, for me it works, I just plug stuff in wherever I like. It's a Panasonic TV.

          • Thanks for sharing. Iâ(TM)m learning that there is a standard called CEC. If enabled and supported on the TV, all the HDMI ports use it for device control. Steaming devices like Shield and Fire Tv support it and when configured and supported actually is what we really want. Different TV makers have their own trade name for CEC, but itâ(TM)s a universal standard since 2002. ARC is definitely primarily used for audio.

  • Keep it simple (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Fons_de_spons ( 1311177 ) on Wednesday January 04, 2023 @03:42PM (#63180248)
    How about a mode that keeps colors as close to the original as possible? It is not my TV's job to make it look better. Let the editors do the hard work.

    • Re:Keep it simple (Score:4, Insightful)

      by thegarbz ( 1787294 ) on Wednesday January 04, 2023 @05:03PM (#63180554)

      They have that. It's called Cinema mode and it's literally in the summary. The problem is what is "original" may not look best in your living room due to various different lighting conditions.

      Cinema mode looks great when I emulate a cinema. Lights out, popcorn in hand it makes for a visually stunning movie night. It sucks balls with daylight streaming in through the window since the colour balance is too warm (your eyes will colour balance to the brightest light source, e.g. the window), and it's too dark with too much contrast making some things impossible to see.

      You've stumbled upon a problem of calibration against room lighting targets which is complex and difficult thing to resolve.

      • In my experience, cinemamode distorts colors. It is very visible when watching own recordings. But maybe I do not have a traditional tv set.
        • Cinema mode does the trick, and LG has "film maker mode" which goes further requiring a dark room. It does its best to show what is intended, will never hit it, but will try its best.

        • In my experience, cinemamode distorts colors. It is very visible when watching own recordings.

          You've stumbled upon yet more discussions on calibration: which target to choose, and finally consumer preference. Cinema Mode (called Filmmaker mode on newer sets) assumes the content was mastered for cinema, typically color graded against a reference target specified by a standard like Dolby Vision. Your home recording almost certainly didn't go through this process, much like someone preparing a photo on their mobile phone looks like arse when I look at it on a properly calibrated monitor.

          And the other o

      • The problem is what is "original" may not look best in your living room due to various different lighting conditions.

        Exactly. Sunlight or room light(s)? Even which direction your window faces makes a difference if you use natural daylight when you set the color tone. Artificial light? They make (LED) bulbs in so many different flavors now you could have different choices depending which lights you have on and when.

        Then there's the Mk 1 eyeball, which is different for everybody, not to mention the viewer's aesthetic sense.

        Everyone wants something different.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Rhipf ( 525263 )

      Unless you are going to get the editor to go to every home and personally calibrate every TV or monitor there is no way to "colors as close to the original as possible". Editors calibrate their colours to the output they intend the film/show to be displayed on. That initial display medium may not be the same as the display medium used for final viewing. It is hard enough to guarantee that the projector used to show a movie will have the same calibration as the editor's system let alone changing the display

      • It does not need to be exact. Just as good as possible. Pretty sure the preset modes do not come close to what editors have in mind. On my set, standard seems to be the more real one.
        Maybe that is a good feature for LG. Not setting it to what you like most. Set it as real as possible. games used to do this with brightness. Just add a few color cards for those interested?

  • How about you have a "calibrated" mode, where the "zero" detent (center position) of all the controls results in a perfectly calibrated image. Then those people who prefer fuckiness can diddle away to their hearts content.

  • brightness, contrast, horizontal, vertical, and that fine tuning ring knob around the outside of the big channel knob

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by zlives ( 2009072 )

      except we control the horizontal, and the vertical

      • There is nothing wrong with your television set. Do not attempt to adjust the picture. We are controlling transmission. If we wish to make it louder, we will bring up the volume.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by zlives ( 2009072 )

          we are indeed in the twilight zone as no one has down modded these as off-topic, the laziest of mod options

  • Why not? Sounds good to me. (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Petersko ( 564140 ) on Wednesday January 04, 2023 @04:43PM (#63180454)

    No matter what choice you make, it won't take long until you find it pleasing, and "normal". You could pick the least accurate, most abrasive option, and if you just leave it alone, you'll stop noticing it in a day or two. The only time you actually would notice something different is when you're switching back and forth comparing them. I used to switch between sports and cinema - until one day when I realized I had watched a whole movie without switching back, and without noticing.

    Folks who endlessly tweak in fear of not experiencing the "best" possible colours are chasing shadows, and degrading their own experience with dissatisfaction. Calibrate it once if you must, then enjoy your content. And I'd be happy to calibrate mine with a series of A/B pictures.

  • When you change around the UI you do not 'reinvent' anything. There is no new invention here. No one 'invented' the way I think about something.

    This marketing crap is clearly news for nerds and stuff that matters.

  • Color temperature (Score:5, Interesting)

    by PhrostyMcByte ( 589271 ) <phrosty@gmail.com> on Wednesday January 04, 2023 @04:49PM (#63180480) Homepage

    Traditionally, this has been the most color accurate option and leans toward a pleasant, warm white balance instead of the cooler temperature that usually accompanies "standard" modes.

    The reason TVs look too cool is because people put warm lighting in their living room. Which don't get me wrong, is perfectly sensible.

    Interestingly enough, movies are mastered to the D65 white point, and are also intended to be viewed under D65 ambient light. 6500k is quite cool, though, and most people will be unwilling to light their home with it. So, an "accurate" setting making things warmer is actually not going to be more accurate, though it may be more comfortable on the eyes in typical viewing conditions.

    I put smart bulbs around my TV, so when I engage "movie mode" the color temperature shifts. I also put high quality D65 bias lighting behind the TV, which further helps. The picture looks absolutely fantastic this way, but it's definitely the nerd approach.

    • and most people will be unwilling to light their home with it.

      Your eyes will naturally adapt to the brightest source of light for their white balance. Movies use D65 because it's a simple standard used by a large variety of colour gammuts and frankly they don't give a f--- since in the cinema the lights are out. It doesn't matter how you light your house, as long as you dim the lights when watching a movie a movie will look correct regardless of the white balance setting.

      The issue is more actual normal light streaming in through the windows. Cinema mode looks insanely

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by ljw1004 ( 764174 )

        The issue is more actual normal light streaming in through the windows. Cinema mode looks insanely warm when your living room has the white point equivalent of standing in the shade (around 8000K, significantly higher than the 6500K from D65), and looks insanely cool when you use your warm 2800K room lights.

        Thanks for the explanations. They make sense but I can't figure out the consequences for my media room at home which is blacked out - I turn the lights off when watching TV, and have blackout blinds to stop daylight and moon and streetlights. Will cinema mode still be "insanely" one way or the other? or will it be sane?

        • Cinima mode will be whatever the manufacturer thinks will sell TVs. It is very rarely properly calibrated. There is a reason the colour system is called NTSC (short for Never Twice the Same Colour). Rough calibration is quite simple (black and white level) -- you only need some test patterns and for the colour balance, you can get reasonable results with a single blue filter. Setting the grey scale properly requires either decent colour vision or a proper calibration.

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by Twinbee ( 767046 )
      I wish they'd do research on what colour temp people think white is closest to and just stick with that for good.

      I bet it'd be far closer to the 5k point. From there, let us adjust R, G, B, saturation, brightness, contrast, and stop trying to complicate something that should be simple.

  • The summary says it will come out in 2023, but I have an lg cx, it doesn't seem improbable that my relatively new screen is "smart enough" to run what's basically just an elaborate wizard.

    • Presumably because your TV doesn't have a credit card mag stripe reader in the side. What would be your incentive to open your wallet if they back ported their new killer feature for free?

  • Guess they collect a fingerprint of your progressive selection with timings and variations. Helps build a good monetizable profile of the TV owner. The AI is here for this purpose, not to help you pick a colour setting.

  • Sony X90CH65 - Is there a calibration app I should/could be using that does this?

  • Optometrist Mode: "Do you prefer image 1 or image 2 ... image 3 or image 1 ..."

  • I do not want seven different modes all showing me different amounts of brightness and colour temperatures. The very idea is silly. All I want from a TV is to be shown what I'm supposed to be seeing, as close as it is capable of getting to the reference monitors used in production of TV shows and movies. They all use the same calibration targets, and we should be using them for our displays, too. So, it should come calibrated for the same D65 white point as those reference monitors are straight from the

  • To each his/her own. This will be much easier than setting a "personalized mode" with barcharts, which is What I currently do.
    Very bright lightsis one of my triggers, so normally I go quite subdued in the brightness, then is all the hassle of warmth and balance.

    I have enough knowledge to do that, but many smart people I know (lawyers, arquitects, administrators) are not "electronics saavy" enough to do it. This will be a boon to said people, and also a boon to lazy people like me ;-)

  • You have to click all the right color mode tiles before you can watch your TV, in order to prove that you're not actually a robot TV watcher.

  • Samsung TVs did this back in the mid-2010's.

  • I don't want it to look (subjectively) "better".

    I want it to look (objectively) as close to the artist's vision as is reasonable to obtain.

    I don't know how to classify two color palettes as "better" or worse. I need context. I need to know what the artist's intention is, how it is framed in the larger work, et al.

  • Don't ask me to figure out what is the most accurate to the standard that film and video makers use to craft their videos. Just calibrate the panel to that standard and give me the option to set it to the standard and then never touch it ever again. I think that's a problem that has already been solved, and it's called "Filmmaker mode".

    Using machine learning to try to "predict" what my preferences are is just a waste of time and effort.

  • when I tell the printer to do head maintenance. It will print out a sheet with several rows of boxes, and then ask me to tell it which box on each row looks best.

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