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Television

Redbox App Axed, Dashing People's Hopes of Keeping Purchased Content (arstechnica.com) 75

Posted by msmash from the end-of-road dept.
Roku has removed the Redbox app from its platform, effectively cutting off users' access to purchased content following Redbox parent company Chicken Soup for the Soul Entertainment's bankruptcy filing. The move signals the likely end of Redbox's digital streaming service, which launched in 2017 to complement its DVD rental kiosks. Customers attempting to use the Redbox app on Roku devices now receive an error message directing them to other streaming services. While the app remains downloadable on some platforms, including Apple's App Store and Google Play, its functionality is severely limited. The shutdown raises questions about the fate of content purchased through Redbox's streaming service and the company's remaining 24,000 physical kiosks.
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Redbox App Axed, Dashing People's Hopes of Keeping Purchased Content More

Redbox App Axed, Dashing People's Hopes of Keeping Purchased Content

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  • Aaaaaaaand... (Score:4, Funny)

    by gosso920 ( 6330142 ) on Thursday August 15, 2024 @12:54PM (#64708836)
    It's gone.

  • "purchased content" (Score:5, Insightful)

    by BerkeleyDude ( 827776 ) on Thursday August 15, 2024 @12:54PM (#64708838)
    Maybe you "purchased" it, but you certainly didn't own it.

    • Re:"purchased content" (Score:4, Insightful)

      by OrangeTide ( 124937 ) on Thursday August 15, 2024 @01:56PM (#64709040) Homepage Journal

      Maybe the corporation called it a purchase. But really we paid for a non-permanent service contract that can be terminated at-will.

      Too bad our money isn't as easily retroactively revocable as the digital products we buy.

      • Maybe the corporation called it a purchase. But really we paid for a non-permanent service contract that can be terminated at-will.

        Anyone who paid using a credit card in the last 90 should be able to get a refund from their credit card company.

      • I haven't read the fine print, so the Red Box contract really may be a "terminate at will whenever we say so" contract, but even if it wasn't, filing for bankruptcy can turn it into one.

    • In b4 the fallacious "If buying isn't owning, then piracy isn't stealing" meme. /s

      Sadly, FAR too people don't understand:

      * You NEVER owned it.
      * You bought a time-limited license.
      * Hijacking nautical terms doesn't apply in a digital medium.
      * Piracy is copyright infringement.

      • > * Hijacking nautical terms doesn't apply in a digital medium.
        > * Piracy is copyright infringement.

        The amount of time I spent tryingt to fight against the association of piracy and "stealing" things that actually cant be stolen.

        I eventually gave up.

        Keep up the fight!

      • Hijacking nautical terms doesn't apply in a digital medium.

        Hijacking physical goods terms doesn't apply in a digital medium either... and yet this was sold using physical goods terms. That is outright theft by deception.

    • Re: (Score:3)

      by tlhIngan ( 30335 )

      Maybe you "purchased" it, but you certainly didn't own it.

      I've always regarded digital purchases as "long term rentals". You don't own them, and it can be taken away from you, but in the meantime you have access it to for as long as they say you have access to it.

      Wasn't there a lawsuit that said basically that? That you didn't really own the stuff you bought, so a store calling it a "purchase" was incorrect and it should be clarified?

  • physical kiosks? the tech may just have to sell parts to make up for the lost wages!

  • Let's all say it together again, louder for those in the back, "If you don't have the physical media, you don't own it."

    The caveat to this would be if you are given access to a DRM-free file you can download and store on your own hardware, but that's basically non-existent when it comes to movies.

    • Well, not legally, at least.

    • That's what grandpa's home-movie camera is for, right? right???

      • Yes, grandpa used his home movie camera for his analog hole. Now let's never speak of this again.

    • Let's all say it together again, louder for those in the back, "If you don't have the physical media, you don't own it."

      Yep. You young whippersnappers can look at me askance all you like, but if I really love a movie, I'm getting it on DVD. Streaming is more convenient, of course, but do you know what's really inconvenient? Turning on your TV and seeing that the provider has pulled the content that you had invested time in (I'm looking at you, NBC, for yanking Miami Vice suddenly when I was halfway through the series).

      If you really want it, buy physical media.

    • BD = Blu-ray Discs

  • Pink isn't well, he's back at the hotel

    Not exactly the same, but close. Customers bought a license from Redbox. Redbox went bust. Unless somebody stuck their fingers in the till (ex: mismanagement or embezzling) before it went down, there's nothing left. It's gone, with your license.

    This didn't used to be a thing before we began transitioning from the Industrial Age to the Information Age. Back then, it was all done with ownership of physical objects. The objects could be yours in perpetuity. We l

    • Pink isn't well, he's back at the hotel

      Not exactly the same, but close. Customers bought a license from Redbox. Redbox went bust. Unless somebody stuck their fingers in the till (ex: mismanagement or embezzling) before it went down, there's nothing left. It's gone, with your license.

      This didn't used to be a thing before we began transitioning from the Industrial Age to the Information Age. Back then, it was all done with ownership of physical objects. The objects could be yours in perpetuity. We learned to rent things out instead of selling them back then; but with services now attaining the value of physical objects in our civilization, the service model has brought a question - what does in perpetuity mean? I bought a rock, I own a rock forever. It's my rock. I bought a license, I own the license . . . how long?

      There's not just the "how long" question when it comes to licensing. There's also the question of what the license means when it comes to non-physical goods. The corporations seem to believe that a license "sold" to a someone gives the corporation rights over that someone. There no longer appears to be anything beyond the initial "you have access to that thing you think you bought" as far as value to the person buying the license. Access today. Tomorrow is questionable.

      But, so long as it doesn't affect corp

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by Asgard ( 60200 )

        Even if there was implied liability, if the licensor is bankrupt there is nothing to recover against.

        • Well, often in bankruptcy it is not the case that there is nothing. There is just not enough. Protection from creditors is required to arrange an orderly liquidation, or future transition to normal operations. The judge overseeing the case decides on who to pay and how.

          If they are in bankruptcy, I would think that a class of customers who own content could get in front of the judge to make arguments about what rights they may possess, if any.

          Is there any practical way to preserve access to purchased con

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by Asgard ( 60200 )

            Providers of 'perpetual' licensed content going bankrupt or otherwise ceasing operations has happened many times, leaving the consumer holding the bag (an empty bag, as it happens). A problem is that they don't own the content in the first place -- RedBox didn't produce movie X, and the license agreement they signed likely does not allow them to hand out unprotected copies of it. The money that was taken in from purchases is long gone -- it is impractical to say "Redbox is gone, so refund all the purchases

            • In reality the licensor got a cut, likely a significant cut of the "purchase" price of the "virtual movie". They should be on the hook to provide access. On their own streaming platform which many of them have these days, a physical media copy, or access to the content on another streaming platform. "Virtual movie" purchases should essentially be a license key. You buy the movie and you get a key in return, they key can be used to access the movie on ANY streaming platform that has it. You enter your licens
              • This is exactly how Movies Anywhere works. Did Redbox not work with Movies Anywhere?

                • It did. Their name was not on the Movies Anywhere site as of February [moviesanywhere.com].

                  I believe the platform acts as a frontend to the retailers and as a way to cross-link licensing from other retailers. If a retailer disappears, the license disappears. But Movies Anywhere would possibly have a record of who had the license and so a studio could in theory choose to let you pick a new retailer to transfer your license to.

            • Re: (Score:2)

              by dgatwood ( 11270 )

              There is no practical way to preserve access -- someone would have to run the content and DRM servers and that isn't free and likely has deep ties to RedBox specific systems; plus the content providers may not allow the license to be transferred.

              There's a practical way. The practical way is to mandate that any company that sells a perpetual license for something must fund the continued operation of servers until such time as they provide non-DRM-protected copies to the user with a notification period of at least 12 months. They can use DRM, but they're on the hook until the copyrights expire, at which point they can release DRM-free versions even without the creator's permission. The cost of maintaining the servers for up to 200 years should sim

              • If Redbox did that, they would still be in bankruptcy and they would still have to hand over any cash set aside to run the servers to creditors.

                • Re: (Score:2)

                  by dgatwood ( 11270 )

                  If Redbox did that, they would still be in bankruptcy and they would still have to hand over any cash set aside to run the servers to creditors.

                  As a government-mandated expense, and as a post-bankruptcy expense for maintaining the estate, those costs would be a priority claim. You could also require them to structure it as a separate legal entity.

                • The judge could decide that the rights of the customers take priority over the rights of the creditors. (Maybe.... IANAL).

              • Re: (Score:2)

                by Asgard ( 60200 )

                'Making it clear' == passing a law changing copyright, sure to be opposed by all entities that own copyright that find it convenient when consumers have to repurchase content due to their prior access being lost.

            • Of course the loss of content has come up before. What I mean is, probably nobody has ever organized into a class to petition the judge in bankruptcy court. If the company has ANY assets, it may be possible to create an endowment going forward that provides legacy access only to the content. If the judge gave priority to this allocation of resources. There would be a lot of functionality of a normal company that this company would not possess. No new users. No advertising. No new content added, ever. No new

        • The studios are the licensor. Redbox is just a convenient middleman to possibly revoke those rights a little earlier and enable consumers to purchase again and again.

        • Even if there was implied liability, if the licensor is bankrupt there is nothing to recover against.

          Which means in a fair and just society, such contracts would be illegal and not possible to engage in. This is lunacy of the highest order here but we allow it because some people can get insanely rich from it.

      • The corporations seem to believe that a license "sold" to a someone gives the corporation rights over that someone.

        Disney thinks that a one-month subscription to Disney+ gives them the ability to opt out of participating in a wrongful death suit. [slashdot.org]

        • The corporations seem to believe that a license "sold" to a someone gives the corporation rights over that someone.

          Disney thinks that a one-month subscription to Disney+ gives them the ability to opt out of participating in a wrongful death suit. [slashdot.org]

          That's one of about twenty examples that spun in my head as I wrote that sentence. There's getting to be enough of them I couldn't pick just one to link to.

    • But Redbox is NOT the license holder. The license holder should be the copyright holder (who was paid by Redbox); generally the creator of the movie / show.

      So even though Redbox went under, isn't my license agreement (which is with the copyright holder) still valid? So why can't I go to MGM / Paramount / Disney etc. and request they provide access to my duly licensed materials?

      • Theoretically, yes. (Score:4)

        by mmell ( 832646 ) on Thursday August 15, 2024 @02:39PM (#64709174)
        Let us know how that works out for you.

      • But Redbox is NOT the license holder. The license holder should be the copyright holder (who was paid by Redbox); generally the creator of the movie / show.

        Yes, and they granted Redbox a license that allowed them to give you a license to view the content on their service.

        So why can't I go to MGM / Paramount / Disney etc. and request they provide access to my duly licensed materials?

        Because that license you purchased did not entitle you to download a copy of the content without DRM, or to view that content on any other service.

        • Usually this type of license gives you access in the app where you bought it, in the Movies Anywhere app, and in any of the apps linked to Movies Anywhere. They could just transfer the licenses from Redbox to Movies Anywhere as part of the winding down operations.

          • "Usually this type of license gives you access in the app where you bought it, in the Movies Anywhere app, and in any of the apps linked to Movies Anywhere."

            Usually? Is that true? Do most "purchases" of video content on e.g. Amazon come with a Movies Anywhere license? This is my first time hearing this.

      • So why can't I go to MGM / Paramount / Disney etc. and request they provide access to my duly licensed materials?

        They don't know you. At most you have a receipt - not from their systems but from a system that is run by another entity. Redbox was responsible for connecting your identity to your license.

        Even with Movies Anywhere (which Redbox wasn't a member of), this wouldn't be automatic. But at least a studio would have a way to revoke one license and grant another through another retailer linked to you MA account (through the KeyChest license syncing). As of yet, I've not heard of a studio having a program to do

  • A herd of class action lawyers you say?

    • You can’t sue an entity that wont exist soon.
      • You can get in line at the bankruptcy court. If you get lucky you will get pennies on the dollar after everyone else in line gets their share.
        • Thats correct, you will be bottom of the pyramid, creditors are #1 in the line.

        • You can get in line at the bankruptcy court. If you get lucky you will get pennies on the dollar after everyone else in line gets their share.

          My lord that would be a waste of time. And the money you would spend retaining a lawyer would pale in comparison to the nothing you'd get.

      • You may be able to petition the court during the bankruptcy hearings.

  • Piracy (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward

    Piracy is okay if you paid for it and they deleted everything you paid for

  • I can't believe a jury would convict redbox users who use the pirate bay to recover their rightfully purchased media.

    • I can't believe a jury would convict redbox users who use the pirate bay to recover their rightfully purchased media.

      If you lived in Theoryland, I would agree with you; however, we live in this shared thing called Reality and you can't escape it except through death. Reality says that your logic will be torn apart and money will be extracted from you regardless of what is Right or Wrong.

  • Who would willingly spend money on something knowing that at any time that something could be taken away from them?

    DRM has proven to be bad for consumers.

    Protecting profits is one thing, Robbing users when they can no longer access things they paid for is WORSE.

    • Who would willingly spend money on something knowing that at any time that something could be taken away from them?

      Some of them are too dumb to figure that out, some just don't think that far. I have spent a dollar here and there on episodes of stuff when I had a hole in my collection and wanted to watch something. Even aware of the issues, I will still spend... just not very much. I certainly won't spend any significant percentage of what it costs to buy physical media for a streaming license.

  • Physical (Score:3)

    by RitchCraft ( 6454710 ) on Thursday August 15, 2024 @02:33PM (#64709152)

    If I can't purchase a physical copy of media I don't "purchase" it. I have many of the VHS tapes I purchased in the past. I have all of the DVD purchases I made. I have all the music CDs I purchased. You know what, I can still watch and listen to all my purchases. Go figure. Over the years I've ripped my purchases to other formats so I can enjoy them on alternate devices too. You have the power to give these fuckers the bird, you just have to be willing to do it.

  • I recently bought the box set of Rocky for about $8 on Bluray at Thriftbooks [thriftbooks.com] and if you say "yes, free books sound good" ("reading rewards") and you have a nasty book habit like me then you get under-$7 items for free with subsequent orders. I presume that applies to video though I mostly have been getting the entire Calvin & Hobbes and Far Side collections with academic books I've been ordering.

    Anyway it's a better deal than these scams like Redbox and you can back them up to your nas to keep the medi

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by pz ( 113803 )

      Your local public library can help feed that book habit, and keep your home neat and tidy, too, since you have to give the books back when you're done reading them. Extra bonus: borrowing from the library is FREE!

      • And when the libraries shut down you'll have nothing!

        Seriously, buy all the books you want, while you still can.

  • people laugh at my dvd/bluray collection. "Why own physical media when you can stream it?" The more you know.

  • "Redbox is currently not supporting this app. For questions about the service on your account, please contact Redbox”

    Sounds like a Redbox issue. I just downloaded the app onto my iPhone and couldn't logon. I'm quite certain Roku isn't behind any of this. Then again, it's an article from ARS Technica (fine) quoting CordCutterNews (worst editing you'll find on the Internet).

  • Worst Fear (Score:3)

    by rally2xs ( 1093023 ) on Thursday August 15, 2024 @03:26PM (#64709326)

    Exactly what I expect from any streaming service. U get physical media in your warm hands, and you have something. Otherwise, $4K of movies you supposedly paid for can evaporate in a hearbeat. Just say no. But the disk. End of story.

    Bought a disk on Ebay. Obviously not a corporate product, as it had NO printing on the disk itself. But I wanted that movie, and it streams absolutely nowhere. "Fate is the Hunter." Great airplane-centric movie. Watched last night with friends. Nobody going tits up in the market is going to take that disk off my shelves.

    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by Seven Spirals ( 4924941 )
      Well, as a semi-professional troll, I can tell you that I've made people extremely angry just by mentioning I have terrible racist books like "Lord of the Rings" that just sit there on my shelf, being racist, and no solider of the censors even knows it's there to come snatch away and burn or edit. I can just feel myself getting more racist every time I read it (joking of course) but nobody is around who's empowered to stop me! It's just sitting there now, radiating racism over my whole block. Imagine!

      So,
  • So did the Redbox service not work with Movies Anywhere? Because that is the point of that service. Movies that support Movies Anywhere can be purchased on any participating streaming service and then watched on any other participating service.
  • ... purchased

    You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

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