Experts Testify US Is Running Secret UAP Programs (npr.org) 166
During a public joint hearing today titled "Unidentified Anomalous Phenomena: Exposing the Truth," four experts testified that the U.S. is running secret UAP programs, including crash retrieval and reverse-engineering programs for advanced nonhuman technology. Although the Pentagon maintains there's no evidence of alien spacecraft, witnesses like Luis Elizondo and Michael Gold argue that UAPs represent an intelligence enigma and call for open, stigma-free study to address potential security concerns and unknown scientific possibilities. NPR reports: Tim Gallaudet, retired rear admiral, U.S. Navy; CEO of Ocean STL Consulting, LLC
"Confirmation that UAPs are interacting with humanity came for me in January 2015," Gallaudet said in his written testimony (PDF). He describes being part of a pre-deployment naval exercise off the U.S. East Coast that culminated in the famous "Go Fast" video, in which a Navy F/A-18 jet's sensors recorded "an unidentified object exhibiting flight and structural characteristics unlike anything in our arsenal." He was among a group of commanders involved in the exercise who received an email containing the video, which was sent by the operations officer of Fleet Forces Command, Gallaudet said. "The very next day, the email disappeared from my account and those of the other recipients without explanation," he said.
Luis Elizondo, author and former Department of Defense official
Elizondo's written testimony (PDF) was brief and alleged that a secretive arms race is playing out on the global stage. "Let me be clear: UAP are real," he wrote. "Advanced technologies not made by our Government -- or any other government -- are monitoring sensitive military installations around the globe. Furthermore, the U.S. is in possession of UAP technologies, as are some of our adversaries." Elizondo is a former intelligence officer who later "managed a highly sensitive Special Access Program on behalf of the White House and the National Security Council," according to his official bio (PDF). "By 2012, [Elizondo] was the senior ranking person of the DOD's Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification Program, a secretive Pentagon unit that studied unidentified anomalous phenomena," his bio states, adding that he resigned in 2017.
Michael Gold, former NASA associate administrator of space policy and partnerships; member of NASA UAP Independent Study Team
Gold's written testimony (PDF) stressed the need for government agencies and academics to "overcome the pernicious stigma that continues to impede scientific dialogue and open discussions" about unexplained phenomena. "As the saying goes, the truth is out there," Gold said, "we just need to be bold enough and brave enough to face it."
Michael Shellenberger, founder of Public, a news outlet on the Substack platform
Shellenberger's testimony (PDF) ran to some 214 pages, including a lengthy timeline of UAP reports from 1947 to 2023. Shellenberger pressed the White House and Congress to act, calling for the adoption of UAP transparency legislation and cutting funds for any related programs that aren't disclosed to lawmakers. "UAP transparency is bi-partisan and critical to our national security," his written testimony stated. You can watch the proceeding here.
"Confirmation that UAPs are interacting with humanity came for me in January 2015," Gallaudet said in his written testimony (PDF). He describes being part of a pre-deployment naval exercise off the U.S. East Coast that culminated in the famous "Go Fast" video, in which a Navy F/A-18 jet's sensors recorded "an unidentified object exhibiting flight and structural characteristics unlike anything in our arsenal." He was among a group of commanders involved in the exercise who received an email containing the video, which was sent by the operations officer of Fleet Forces Command, Gallaudet said. "The very next day, the email disappeared from my account and those of the other recipients without explanation," he said.
Luis Elizondo, author and former Department of Defense official
Elizondo's written testimony (PDF) was brief and alleged that a secretive arms race is playing out on the global stage. "Let me be clear: UAP are real," he wrote. "Advanced technologies not made by our Government -- or any other government -- are monitoring sensitive military installations around the globe. Furthermore, the U.S. is in possession of UAP technologies, as are some of our adversaries." Elizondo is a former intelligence officer who later "managed a highly sensitive Special Access Program on behalf of the White House and the National Security Council," according to his official bio (PDF). "By 2012, [Elizondo] was the senior ranking person of the DOD's Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification Program, a secretive Pentagon unit that studied unidentified anomalous phenomena," his bio states, adding that he resigned in 2017.
Michael Gold, former NASA associate administrator of space policy and partnerships; member of NASA UAP Independent Study Team
Gold's written testimony (PDF) stressed the need for government agencies and academics to "overcome the pernicious stigma that continues to impede scientific dialogue and open discussions" about unexplained phenomena. "As the saying goes, the truth is out there," Gold said, "we just need to be bold enough and brave enough to face it."
Michael Shellenberger, founder of Public, a news outlet on the Substack platform
Shellenberger's testimony (PDF) ran to some 214 pages, including a lengthy timeline of UAP reports from 1947 to 2023. Shellenberger pressed the White House and Congress to act, calling for the adoption of UAP transparency legislation and cutting funds for any related programs that aren't disclosed to lawmakers. "UAP transparency is bi-partisan and critical to our national security," his written testimony stated. You can watch the proceeding here.
What nonsense. (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:What nonsense. (Score:5, Interesting)
I recall reading a definitive debunking of the "go fast" video by an optics expert with intimate knowledge of the F18 gun camera. Every claimed "anomalous" movement was explained as being a particular kind of "sun dog" (those ghost suns you can see on complex multi-component lenses that are pointed facing the sun).
So Tim Gallaudet's "proof" of aliens boils down to "an unknown higher ranked officer told the mail system admin to junk the conspirationist bullshit we were trying to circulate".
Proof that higher ranked officers are aliens... /s
Re: What nonsense. (Score:3)
The go fast video can be debunked by a 15 years old with basic trigonometry knowledge. No need to be an expert, the video has all the info needed about the speed and heading of the aircraft, the angle of the camera, the distance of the target, and the timestamps.
With that, you can easily calculate the end position of the target relative to its start position. If I recall, the "ufo" was going around 50kph. It's all parallax.
The mention of the go fast video is a simple marker that the real field of expertise
Re: What nonsense. (Score:2)
Here: https://youtu.be/PLyEO0jNt6M?t... [youtu.be]
You're welcome. The speed of the "ufo" is 20 to 40 knots.
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That is bogus.
There are plenty of videos that can not be explained that way.
And: such sun ghosts in a gun camera, would not be on radar of the carrier and the escorts. Facepalm.
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These UFOs could be all sorts of things, but they aren't aliens. Hypersonic missile tests gone wrong, drones, reflections, problems with the optics... I recall one was due to lights from a moving train reflecting off clouds.
Obviously the military and CIA has to look into them to make sure they aren't some new weapon or someone spying on them (I hear they use weather balloons for that, and if you can't tell I'm rolling my eyes)... But they definitely aren't aliens.
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These UFOs could be all sorts of things, but they aren't aliens.
There are plenty of photos of very odd things in the UAP space, on Earth, the moon and under the ocean and essentially unknowable to anyone here. What is truly disturbing is how Youtube can shut so much of it down, I accept that I don't know what I am looking at, only that it's really interesting and I object to censorship. NASA's work on standardizing inter-departmental information exchange on UAPs a few years ago was a big step forward for examining the phenomenon.
I hope that there are aliens out the
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I think most of the "censored by YouTube" ones are just deleted by the uploader, who then follows up with a video about how YouTube is censoring them for even more views.
Re: What nonsense. (Score:3)
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If humanity is the *ONLY* being solely responsible for keeping the dim candle of consciousness alight in the universe not only is it an almost overwhelming responsibility, it's simultaneously mind-numbingly terrifying that we are alone.
Relax. We've only been around for about 300k years. Dinosaurs were here for about 65 million years. And the earth is around 4.5 billion years old. Even if we are the sole beings around with consciousness across all of space (which, "is big. You won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind-boggingly big it is." - D. Adams), it would be a massive leap to say we are the only ones across all of space _AND__TIME_. And time is quite relative - we're looking into the VERY distant past when we look at distant stars. We h
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No one called them aliens.
At least not me.
It is pretty clear that they are man made.
If some allies would be here, we either would know it, or they would not show us their toys.
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There are plenty of videos that can not be explained that way.
Name one.
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Links or it didn't happen.
Re:What nonsense. (Score:5, Interesting)
Mick West on youtube, has a lot of good debunking videos...he goes through all the steps, and shows all the tools he uses, and explains how a lot of camera/optical hardware works...and how they can create odd effects that people use as "evidence"...and will often even demonstrate how those effects can be reproduced. He has videos on the "evidence" from previous government hearings....those people should be ashamed of themselves for even presenting that as legitimate evidence.
I know it's touchy, and people don't want to admit it....but a lot of pilots are basically pretty dumb. Speaking from experience...flying a plane is just learning a different piece of transport machinery...it doesn't mean you're smart. People give their observations way too much credit. There are also a lot of other military reports, that just end up being dumb military kids with night vision, getting very confused looking at stars.
I fully believe in the possibility of life elsewhere in the universe...but I think 99% of the "evidence" we see, is fairly easily explained. But, I also fully believe that what we're seeing, is different agencies trying to justify their budgets.
Mike West on Youtube ... (Score:5, Informative)
Seconded ...
Here is Mike West's Youtube Channel [youtube.com].
Here is a video on the "Pyramid UFO" [youtube.com] which just shows that a triangular aperture inside the lens would show as "bokeh".
Here is the "Go Fast" UFO debunk [youtube.com].
All of them are short and very approachable.
Re:What nonsense. (Score:5, Informative)
People give their observations way too much credit.
That, and memory.
We have tons and tons of evidence on how unreliable eye witnesses are and how selective our memory of events can be. From not remembering blatantly obvious things to false memories of things that were never there.
Re:What nonsense. (Score:4, Funny)
Or maybe you're just misremembering what you've read on the subject.
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Re:What nonsense. (Score:5, Interesting)
I knew someone would bring up fighter pilots having degrees.
I've known engineers that cant build anything, and computer scientists that can't replace their own RAM.
Just look at the Slashdot crowd...educated idiots exist. And in the general population, there's a lot of morons with degrees.
Fighter pilots are just cocky officers that think they're hot shit because they fly fighters...their degrees were just a means to achieve that goal. They love the mystique and myth that surrounds them. I know it's a generalization...but people need to be a little more honest about what pilots actually are, before taking their opinion as gospel. I don't have a grudge against them...I've just talked to enough of them. And really, they're not dashing dogfighting ace's anymore...they're just "plane drivers" that get a weapons package within range to do its job. It's another job, simple enough to be replaced by drones. Similarly...airline pilots are glorified bus drivers.
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But I see people who are obviously stupid with university degrees. Those "IQ" ratings are all bullshit, they don't really prove anything except an ability to solve a certain type of problem. Also, no one gives IQ tests anymore anyway because they're not useful.
I found in my history that I kept thinking you'd get someone smarter in your peer group as I went through life. That is, I expected that leaving high school and entering university that people would be smarter. They weren't. Then I figured when I
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That probably makes it worse. Undergrads tend to have an overinflated sense of their own knowledge. The first few years of grad school hopefully knocks that out of them. I expect being an officer, a pilot, and shooting big guns and missiles doesn't help any either.
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I know it's touchy, and people don't want to admit it....but a lot of pilots are basically pretty dumb.
It's not that people don't want to admit it, it's just that you seem to think that everyone is dumb for not being an expert on everything. Some of the smartest people I've met have said some truly dumb things outside of their field of expertise. Pilots are no different. If not knowing the detailed physics of camera optics makes people "dumb" then congrats on insulting literally brilliants of truly smart people.
Now that said one could argue that true brilliance comes from recognising when something is outsid
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The snag isn't knowledge or logic or whatever, it's the human foible of believing one's own eyes. Except that your eyes lie to you all the damn time! There's also a woeful lack of good reliable skepticism, instead most humans like to jump to a first estimate conclusion quickly, then stick with it. Note especially the SRI scientists who were utterly fooled by "psychics". Certainly, there's the ability to take advantage of someone's inflated self worth to con them which you can see throughout history. But
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Show some real evidence
There is one example of an anomalous phenomenon (something that doesn't obey the known rules of the universe): consciousness. Physics, chemistry, and biology lets us understand the functioning of this machine made of mostly water, carbon, proteins, minerals, and long chain fatty acids. We understand it in the same way we understand planets, rivers, computers, explosions, and pizza. But nothing in our understanding explains why this machine should have a private inner experience beyond the mere description o
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Yes, if the physical organism is doing everything, what need is there for an experiencer? It's the first mystery.
As for aliens, humans could easily be a billion years behind other species in the galaxy. Yet we think we can judge what a billion years of technical advancement could produce.
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There's no way in which consciousness "doesn't obey the known rules of the universe". That's like claiming that ant colonies (or any other complex system) aren't allowed by physics.
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To give a little more detail, I waver between Type-A and Type-C materialism in response to Chalmers' "hard problem of consciousness".
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Handwavy bullshit. There's absolutely no reason except conceit to think that consciousness needs any special explanation.
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If you're interested in strange things flying around, there's a ton of evidence.
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The good thing though, is it occupies some of Lauren Boebert's time, reducing slightly the amount of damage she can do elsewhere.
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"Let me be clear: UAP are real," he wrote.
How can UAP be real when even birds aren't?
Re: What nonsense. (Score:2)
Concrete, quantifiable, and reproducible -scientific- evidence is what's sorely lacking.
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goddess Bau gave man morals when she gave Urukagina the law
FTFY. [wikipedia.org]
Re: When nonsense is better than the alternative. (Score:2)
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But for an hour and a half, we had a glimpse of hope...
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It always cracks me up when the atheists assume it’s them that people are worried about absolutely losing their collective fucking shit when the aliens come (back?)
That's an assumption I have never seen an atheist make. Why would they?
Re:When nonsense is better than the alternative. (Score:5, Informative)
Atheism is a belief system in the same way not collecting stamps is a hobby.
Re: When nonsense is better than the alternative. (Score:2)
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Antiphilately!
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Atheism is a belief system in the same way not collecting stamps is a hobby.
Nah. Idealized Atheism, the kind that only exists in abstract texts, is a full on negative. Down here in the real-world atheists are full of positive beliefs about how reality works, e.g., reductionism [wikipedia.org], physicalism [wikipedia.org], and mechanicism [wikipedia.org].
Those are all arbitrary beliefs, there's no hard proof either for or against them, only arguments one can accept or reject at will. And yet, most atheists share a common belief in them. This unified set of beliefs forms a system. Hence, atheists have a belief system.
Now, what doe
Hollywood aliens (Score:5, Funny)
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Whoops. Undoing accidental mod.
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If they weren't blurry and unrecognizable, they wouldn't be Unidentified Flying Objects, they'd just be Flying Objects.
it's not aliens (Score:3)
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Ever heard of Operation Blue Beam?
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Sorry. Project Blue Beam (close enough).
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I'd bet good money that this is a secret government operation to misled the world.
I agree, but which government?
Clearly the US was embarrassed by the Chinese balloon story, but that's the one everyone knows about. When we do shoot things down, it's not always good to acknowledge that we shot it down or even whose it was. Keep the owner of the thing in the dark.
But I do wonder if any aircraft that try to surveil the US are marked and possibly even programmed with manufactured languages to obscure their origin. Maybe not to convince the US that it's alien, but to keep it unknown whose i
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Actually it was mostly the farmers pranking the world.
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Flying saucers was a massive British craze too. Crop circles were very British early on (some claims being made before America existed, but in the 50s it was clear hoaxers were doing this before the craze took hold in America).
Uhuh (Score:4, Insightful)
Somebody spent a lot of time quote mining and cherry picking this article together. Conspicuously lacking is actual evidence.
Well that explains Trump then (Score:2)
Universe is big (Score:2)
I think anyone with some knowledge of cosmology knows that this has to bullshit. There are 1e10 stas in the our galaxy alone, for sure there is life in some fraction of them and probably intelligent life in some smaller fraction of them. But for sure not on the closest star. But you know what -- a typical star is some tens of thousands of lightyears away. This means 50 thousand years for a return light travel. Good luck communicating whith those guys or travelling Star Wars like to visit them.
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But for sure not on the closest star.
Actually the closest star has a known earth like planet.
We just could not measure its atmosphere yet, in case it has one.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
Secondly: we are not talking about aliens.
We are talking about Unexplainable/Unidentified Areal Phenomena.
And we are not talking about UFOs from 30 years.
We are talking about things that usually came in small swarms and harassed an American carrier group repeatedly during the recent years.
Those things are on video. And
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"Actually the closest star has a known earth like planet."
It does indeed, and there is evidence from studies of its atmosphere (Like the increasing levels of Carbon Dioxide and other greenhouse gases) that there is life there.
However analysis of various radio signals shows that the life is not intelligent.
(the closest star is about 150,000,000,000 meters away)
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Those things are on video. And not only (as sun ghosts) on the gun cameras. The pilots saw them with their own eyes. And the carrier - I believe it was the Nimitz - and its escorts: have them on radar.
So this drone stuff, is obviously human made. Probably by a secret US project. Probably by the Chinese. Who knows?
It is kind of irritating that so many /. ers do know nothing about those incidents.
There are hundreds of original footage on youtube, including the radio conversation of the pilots with the carrier. And interviews with the pilots, too.
Sure, it could be a hoax, dozens of high ranked US fighter pilots inventing a story, faking videos and a fake radio calls to a non existing carrier added later to the footage. Nice conspiracy theory ...
I've seen the video and then I've seen the video debunking the videos from Nimitz and Roosevelt. Is there a video debunking the debunking video?
The Nimitz radar drama started after an upgraded radar system went live. These things are massively complex bags of imperfect algorithms that try to interpret returns to predict reality while rejecting clutter. If you had to guess you can either guess the new system is now just powerful enough to detect aliens or you can guess they were still working out kinks.
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From the summary:
So yeah, we're talking about aliens. And claims that take things like the "go fast" video at credulous face value, claiming physics defying mechanics, are even more incredible than aliens.
Re: Universe is big (Score:2)
Well, "they" are.
If they've got "nonhuman" technology, seems like they could clear a lot of things up by showing it, rather than blabbering on about it.
The status quo only serves to add speculation and confusion.
Which might, in fact, be the military's goal here: sow confusion and mistrust.
Why? Maybe to project the idea that we'd better keep the military well funded so it can protect us. I dunno. The intents could be quite complicated.
Re: Universe is big (Score:2)
Exactly this!
It's a big cosmos out there. Especially between stars, the scaling of distance is huge.
This following shows the scales pretty well, so, to get you a quick rough idea: ...between the Sun and Earth: 1 AU ...between stars: 200.000 AU ...galaxy size: 1000x that, 1000 pc. ...between galaxies: 1000 kpc ...observable universe: 1000 Mpc
See where the largest jump is? Where mostly it's 1000x, to the next star is 200.000x. That's more than two orders of magnitude over the other scales. And the reason why,
L00nyOps Money Fleecing (Score:3)
This all has a serious smell of L00nyOps Money Fleecing and budget forking/securing about it. Like those military projects back in the 70ies where they trained GIs with clairvoyance, magic powers and new age wicca protection spells and talismans or countless other DOD bullsh*t projects. There's an absolutely hilarious movie on this made by the Cohen brothers [wikipedia.org] btw.
Given, there is fermis paradox and it's not completely unlikely that the aliens have been around us all along. It's also very likely that if they're interstellar - which would be totally plausible - that they are quasi artificial lifeforms with vast access to virtual worlds they take with them and has them not minding floating around through space for thousands of years on end. Which would just about be the most plausible state of things.
So I'm not ruling out aliens entirely.
But looking at the current noise and the entire state of the discussion on aliens in the US, it is way more likely that some smart guy in some agency picked up on the crackpots and new agers and found some mates in the private sector to do some easy money with doing quasi-official "alien research". And other bodies within the US complex are glad to have some distractions ready for the people so they don't stick to long with the idea of taxing the rich. You know, like the whole inflated gender debate.
Re: L00nyOps Money Fleecing (Score:2)
Coen brothers had nothing to do with the dire film Men Who Stare at Goats, although it was pretty evident the tone and marketing traded on making people think that was the case.
July 2 . . . (Score:2)
And so the US circles the drain (Score:3)
Two things are happening here: they are risking exposing details of current military bleeding edge technology to the world, and they are indulging credulous morons because there are enough of them to be a political force.
Neither case is good for the US.
What is badly needed here are basic science and civics being mandatory in all schools so the next generation isn't so fucking stupid. But you're not going to get that, because half the population is successfully forcing Jesus and fascism into them instead.
Another cover story (Score:2)
Someone's been saying it for 30 years, this isn't news. The question is, is this the inside dirt, or another cover-story?
In the 1970s, a lot of the cover-stories got exposed, allowing a glimpse of what the US was really doing: Such as crashed UFOs, really being US-made surveillance craft.
Without explanation (Score:2)
"The very next day, the email disappeared from my account and those of the other recipients without explanation," he said
I'm pretty sure any e-mail admin can explain it. Deleting messages out of user mailboxes is a trivial task. Usually it is because they are suspected of containing malware, but sometimes they contain information not meant to be released.
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Or somebody explained to a certain high ranking officer how parallax works and that officer was a wee bit embarassed.
well (Score:2)
If UFOs are real then there are some realllllly interesting physics out there that we don't know about and go against all of our experimental evidence - namely, how is any civilization reaching earth in a reasonable amount of time while not exceeding the speed of light.
If we're getting visited by aliens, we're being visited by aliens who can also time travel.
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If your place in the world (not as rich or well off as you think you should be) and/or the world does not make sense (or seems truly random--because it is somewhat) and you cannot cope with it being mostly random because of that means. Then believing in god lets you ignore the scary random stuff that cause unexpected injury and death and lets you think you have some control by praying to the mighty sky god that has a plan for you.
It is the ultimate crutch, and lots of other people will beat you over the he
"The truth is out there." (Score:2)
"The truth is out there" (Score:2)
Long on testimony, shallow on fact? (Score:2)
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Prime Directive (Score:2)
Yawn-fest, no real movement here (Score:2)
This was a Nothing Burger repeat of prior hearings, with continued clever evasiveness by Elizondo. Mr. Gold was overly effusive, as if he were applying for a new position -- his statement that NASA is completely transparent is, of course, complete BS (and we know that).
Granted there are elements that engage in snuffing out this topic in our mass media, we are at least getting the hearings. It is disappointing that few Senators are present -- there is a battle going on about releasing this information, som
Douglas Adams is dead (Score:2)
Apparently our government believes Art Bell fans.. (Score:2)
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An antimatter rocket - something theoretically possible - might do it in four and a half years. If your impact shield can take relativistic hits of interstellar hydrogen.
But still, you have the rocket... Are you going to spend almost five years in transit so you can buzz some locals with bad cameras?
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This is what unhinged conspiracy-monkey Republicans talk about with your tax money while you work for a living.
This hearing costs nothing and won't lead to anything.
It's a harmless way to keep Congress and conspiracy theorists occupied.
There are far worse things they could be doing.
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I do not think it is entirely harmless. It is one more way of getting Americans to distrust science, "see, there's all these things that science cannot explain, and THEY are hiding it from us."
Congress Critter: Okay, cut the crap, what are these UFOs.
Witness: Uh...glowing blobs of light doing unspeakable things in the air.
CC: But what are they?
W: You need to ask the Pentagon, they are the ones hiding the Truth from you.
CC: Mr. Pentagon, what are these UFOs?
P: They are called UAPs, and they are glowing globs
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We are paying the salaries, providing their facilities, funding all the supporting services of the aliens? Believe me they will be doing all the worst things they possibly can....such as anal probes, mass hypnosis, fluoridated water, and cryptocurrency scams. This is just their latest declaration of contempt for America. Next thing you know, they'll be denigrating measles vaccines.
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This is what unhinged conspiracy-monkey Republicans talk about with your tax money while you work for a living.
This is what all politicos talk about when they're trying desperately to distract the public from noticing something else. Every time the alien stuff starts getting pumped in political circles, there's bound to be some nefarious shit going on under the radar that they want to keep our attention away from. I'm still trying to sort out what that would be this time. Maybe it was in preparation for announcing Mat Gaetz as the new Attorney General so that the investigation into sexual misconduct and such would b
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We've had congressional hearings on this. We've had hearings on this _recently_. The only reason to keep having more hearings is because some congressional morons didn't the the answer they wanted ("extratrerrestrials exist and are stealing our tax dollars to fund their pedophilia rings").
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We've had congressional hearings on this. We've had hearings on this _recently_. The only reason to keep having more hearings is because some congressional morons didn't the the answer they wanted ("extratrerrestrials exist and are stealing our tax dollars to fund their pedophilia rings").
Well, it would take some quantum fields to create a basement pedo dungeon in a pizza joint that doesn't have a basement. And let's be honest, some of those folks are just hoping to find the pedo ring so they can join. Gaetz, our newly appointed AG, being chief among them.
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taking a page out of WayDumberThanABoxOfCrayons' book are you.
But whadaboud the Democrats !!
Thanks for confirming you think it's fine when Republicans waste money on things like this.
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How about the taxpayers themselves, Einstein? That's the point of a commons. Not Roman circuses to distract your slaves from seeing what you are.
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Wow, you are really into alternate genders. I suppose it is titillating for you and your kind. You know there are web sites devoted to satisfy people like you, yes?
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This is what unhinged conspiracy-monkey Republicans talk about with your tax money while you work for a living.
LOL. Yeah, OK. What Democratic spending point would you prefer to piss away taxpayer dollars on, because pissers gonna piss? Should we waste a few billion brain cells debating what a “woman” is, or should we just place our bets on the not-a-man transgender that’s going to win the race in a totally-fair way instead?
Lets talk about how modern liberal feminists aren’t aborting their way to prominent single cat lady status. Or maybe we talk about how the lesbian divorce rate speaks volumes as to how “toxic” men are in relationships. Just in case you were confused as to whose delusions are losing worse here, there won’t be a future generation of libtards to perpetuate that bull-fucking-shit to.
At least trans people and lesbians exist. Democrats can argue they are for real, Republicans can argue that they are a bunch of crazy people but they exist and it is justifiable to spend some time and money on discussing them and their problems and their rights and place in society. You for one, clearly have some extremely passionate opinions on the subject and a participating in a healthy televised debate would be very cathartic for you and far more therapeutic than angrily ranting away while hiding behind
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How many trials for terrorist acts do you see in the USA? The news-worthy terrorists are shipped to Gitmo, Cuba. The rest are disappeared but they have to go somewhere.
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Re: Hear me out (Score:2)
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These are all illegal unConstitutional parallel-government programs that hide behind the republican government protections.
They decided Kennedy couldn't be trusted to "fight communism" and do heinous things overseas for American corporate profits so they removed Kennedy and went their own way.
You saw it pop up in Iran-Contra and again on 9/11.
Senator Inouye got it by the tail in Iran-Contra and when he pulled the tail he got the reverse-engineering program.
Their goal was to use the technology to deliver a n
Re: Hear me out (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Poland, Michigan. 8-D