Traffic Light Control For The Masses 824
uniformed1 writes "Eliminating red lights along the routes of their vehicles can give
emergency response teams the few extra critical minutes that can save
lives and property. A front page article
in today's Detroit News details
the emerging problem with a device that is now being made available to
the public -- a traffic light changer. Originally intended only
for emergency vehicles, the $300 MIRT (mobile infrared transmitter)
emits an infrared beam that signals traffic signals to turn green and
gives the vehicle the right-of-way. It is only a matter of time
before self-centered drivers start using the devices widely to skirt
traffic congestion, which is creating fears that chaos will
ensue." Maybe if everyone had these, it would lead to smarter intersections.
No Encryption keys? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:No Encryption keys? (Score:5, Insightful)
A lot more difficult to develop, a lot less fault tolerant.
I guess it could just digitally sign todays date with a secret key and transmit that or something. However, eventually the key would be leaked or reverse engineered. Basically, if you are going to give the 'key' (the little box which does the transmitting) to anyone, then eventually that key will be figured out. No amount of encryption can avoid that. (Although tamperproof smart card type devices are a good start).
Re:No Encryption keys? (Score:4, Insightful)
You've got the right idea!
However, eventually the key would be leaked or reverse engineered.
The fun thing about keys is, you can have as many keys as you have mirt boxes - one goes missing, you remove the key from the receivers.
Re:No Encryption keys? (Score:3, Insightful)
Do you network all the boxes and just broadcast a remove code? And what do you do when some l33t hax0r starts sending his, unofficial, broadcasts on that network?
Or do you send out a tech every time someone hacks one box? Maybe eventually we just have techs camp out under the poles...
Re:No Encryption keys? (Score:5, Insightful)
Do you network all the boxes and just broadcast a remove code? And what do you do when some l33t hax0r starts sending his, unofficial, broadcasts on that network?
Then the emergency vehicles run the same way we do in places where we don't have those systems. We run red lights (legally) with lights and sirens on, but we do it carefully. It might take a little bit longer to get where they're going, but it's not a catastrophic failure.
BTW, if you're wondering about my use of "we", I'm a Maryland EMT.
Much like here actually (Score:3)
Re:No Encryption keys? (Score:4, Interesting)
This problem is a little harder because an attacker could steal either the traffic light equipment or the vehicle equipment. The traffic light equipment is probably more numerous and vulnerable. Public Key crypto would be very useful here, because then stealing the receiver doesn't help you impersonate the transmitter. Unfortunately, it probably needs too many bits for the IR strobe carrier. So unless we "cheat" with a supplemental data channel or something, there's no good solution.
Although - you could have an operational key (symmetric) and a rekey key (public key). The rekey box is guarded like the crown jewels. Once a month, or if the operational key is known to be compromised, you bolt the rekey box to the roof of a police car and drive slowly around town, pausing 60 seconds or so at each light. Enough time for the slow public-key transmission. Then you rekey all the vehicle units off the rekey box. Could work.
Re:No Encryption keys? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:No Encryption keys? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:No Encryption keys? (Score:5, Informative)
I use an infrared remote to access my condo - it uses an infrared remote system that's fairly simple, yet effective:
-The remote (much like garage door openers) uses a rolling pseudo-random number sequence. The remote generates a code based on the next number in sequence from a random number generator seeded with a known key for that particular remote (the main controller needs to be "paired" with the remote before use so it knows what seed each remote is using).
-The controller keeps track of all of the remotes for the building and pre-computes the next 256 valid codes that each remote will generate based on the seed exchanged when the remote is paired.
When a remote triggers, it sends the random number code (NOT the key) by way of infrared to the controller receiver. The controller checks to see if the number the remote transmitted is in the next 256 valid numbers for that particular remote, if so, you get in. If not, you don't and the attempt is logged.
If you press the button more than 256 times (playing with the remote button for example) when you're not around the sensor, none of the precompute codes will match the next time the remote is used and it will be useless until re-paired.
Even if you capture the code being sent from the remote, you won't know the key that the random number generator is using in that particular remote to generate the number sequence, or any of the subsequent numbers that the remote would generate. You'd only capture the code that was sent, and once that was used, it wouldn't work again anyway.
If a remote key is compromised, it's simple to simply deactivate that particular remote key. If the system is brute-force attacked, it can either deactivate the sensor that's being attacked, or just call security to the appropriate location.
N.
Comparing it to something geeks understand (Score:3, Informative)
Think of a RSA SecurID token. A 6 number sequence that both the token and the authenticator know that changes at preset intervals.
Magazine ads (Score:2)
Here's a link to a place that makes them... (Score:5, Informative)
-mikey
Re:Here's a link to a place that makes them... (Score:2, Informative)
Careful of local laws. Chicago crime bo...er mayor banned these early last year (which probably means that the Illinois gov. office sells them)
Re:Here's a link to a place that makes them... (Score:5, Informative)
Oh, and I don't want to be you when the cops pull you over. In Chicago it's a $4000.00 fine and 30 days in jail.
They are easily detected, they blast a massive floodlight of IR.
I welcome every complete moron that buy's these to use them... just like the police radar jammers.
Re:Here's a link to a place that makes them... (Score:5, Insightful)
As with any device that is in a legal grey area, judicious use is the key. Think of these things like stinkbombs in high school. If you are the ONLY one in the room where you use it, it will be more than obvious who is responsible. If you do use it in an auditorium with 500 other students around you, it is much harder to find out who is the culprit.
If you are in a fair sized group of cars, you are pretty safe when using a radar jammer or device to change the traffic signal. Sure it may be illegal, but when the effort required to catch you makes in impractical to do so, the police don't even make the effort. How often does the office football pool get busted?
LK
Re:OT: H2 Short Bus (Score:3, Insightful)
The fact that this was modded down points to a problem with slashdot. I think the offtopic mod should be reserved for material that seriously disrupts the conversation. And likewise, 'troll' should be used for page-widening posts and the like, not for subtle
No soup for you! (Score:4, Funny)
Too late, I just submitted a pantent on that technology. You may continue your research upon purchasing a license.
Opticom (Score:5, Informative)
It operates using very short pulses of light (< 10uS) occuring at a precise frequency (usually crystal controlled). The normal pulse rate is about 10Hz. An optional rate of around 12.5Hz can be used to give priority to other vehicles (ex. ambulance vs firetruck).
The system is configurable and normally set to give a green light to the emergency vehicle (helping to clear traffic) but it can also be set to go red in all directions.
Change the Behavior (Score:5, Interesting)
(The trouble is the lack of feedback. You'd need some kind of indication that the other ways had gone to red before the ambulance driver will have confidence going through the intersection at full speed)
Ambulance drivers don't go full speed (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Ambulance drivers don't go full speed (Score:4, Insightful)
You know what's REALLY irritating, though? When you pull up to a red light with the lights and siren going, and some idiot sees you stop and decides it's their turn to go.
Yes, I'm a nerd AND an EMT...
Re:Ambulance drivers don't go full speed (Score:5, Interesting)
First off if the ambulance driver is any good, he/she does not go full speed through a green light, or a red light, or a yellow light for that matter. If they are really good, they stop and make sure they have the right of way. Believe it or not, in most cases that have made it to court where an accident occured between a civilian and a emergency vehicle, the Emergency Vehicle driver was held accountable. This is true even in the case where the Ambulance had a green light to go and the ambulance was struck BY the civilian running a red light. (I don't remember the specific case but was taught to us when we took our driving course.) Personally I stop at every light, green or not and make sure that I have EVERYONES attention before going through an intersection. It is better to get my truck, and my fellow fire fighters there in one piece than to crash the truck and not get there at all.
Another interesting point of fact, (at least in New York state) the flashing red lights give NO legal rights to disobey the speed limit. This is something I allways try and keep in mind, because you do kind of feel invincible when you are driving those big red trucks.
Re:Ambulance drivers don't go full speed (Score:3, Informative)
Unless you are on a multilane highway (read: freeway/expressway.), in which case you get all the way into the righthand lane and keep going. DO NOT STOP ON THE FUCKING FREEWAY. Just get over to the right lane and let the damn ambulance/cop/firepeople go around you.
Sorry, I've been wanting to vent this for a long time. In Oregon, you are not required to pull off the road and/or stop for an emergency vehicle when you are on a multilane (2 or more lan
Re:Ambulance drivers don't go full speed (Score:3, Insightful)
furthermore, if the light up ahead is red, there's not going to be any oncoming traffic, now is there?
Re:Change the Behavior (Score:2, Interesting)
Kind of like trolls on
Re:Change the Behavior (Score:2)
Re:Change the Behavior (Score:5, Interesting)
All the lights I've seen have a light next to the recieving unit that indicates which direction has the right away. This was done after 2 emergency vechicals going different directions (or at least coming from different directions) crashed in the middle of the intersection because they assumed they had the right away.
Re:Change the Behavior (Score:3, Funny)
Zing!
Re:Change the Behavior (Score:5, Informative)
Make "Red Light" for all directions.. (Score:5, Insightful)
Any system that creates "green" for the person with the strobe is, in my opinion, an inherently dangerous system. It encourages people to try this kind of stuff and makes people think that the ambulance or fire-engine behind them "won't mind if I go through too". The more moving vehicles there are, even if they're with the flow of the emergency traffic, the more dangerous.
I can't imagine this system staying like it is for too long.
How about tracking the emergency vehicles through GPS, then having the central traffic computers switch the lights around the emergency vehicle (far ahead) in such a way as to clear the path 2 blocks away and keep all opposing traffic off the intended path. For instance, lanes turning away from the path would be allowed to turn green so the vehicles could clear the area, lanes crossing would be halted 1 or 2 blocks away, and lights behind the emergency vehicle would stay red for some reasonable period of time to keep the lawyers a reasonable distance from the ambulances...most people wouldn't even see the emergency vehicles, as they would be sitting at a red light 1 or 2 blocks away, or simply shunted away from the path, and the ambulance/fire-truck driver would not even have to contend with stopped or moving traffic.
This isn't too much to put on one of those little PLC traffic computers, and it would be a lot better than "strobe light gets the green" solution that these people thought up.
You're forgetting one detail... (Score:4, Insightful)
Actually, you DO want other vehicles moving. Specifically, the ones in front of the emergency vehicle. There's not always room to pull over or give way within your lane, and giving the vehicles immediately in front of you a red light will... well... stop you too.
Re:Change the Behavior (Score:5, Insightful)
One thing people always forget is that speeding and runing reds rarely gets you there faster. People who dodge and weave through rush hour highway traffic are a whole 2 or 3 cars in front of me when I get to the off ramp. I've learned the timing of lights around my office and home so now I can actually get there faster by driving just few miles under the limit. Usually it's the impatient people that create traffic in the first place. The more that people obey speed limits the better the timing of intersections gets.
Re:Change the Behavior (Score:3, Interesting)
So your contention is that two objects travelling the same route, one going faster than the other, are likely to arrive at their destination at the same time?
I understand that you are probably referring to the effect of red lights stopping all vehicles regularly and allowing the slower car to catch up, but they also have a corresponding inverse effect - if the faster car goes through a few seconds before a red light and the slower car has to stop, t
Re:Change the Behavior (Score:2)
Re:Change the Behavior (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Change the Behavior (Score:2)
Except where the road is divided by a concrete median. Then you're screwed.
Easy solution... (Score:5, Funny)
Once again, Slashdot trumps logic for technology . (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Once again, Slashdot trumps logic for technolog (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Once again, Slashdot trumps logic for technolog (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Once again, Slashdot trumps logic for technolog (Score:3, Interesting)
Supposedly, this system is cheaper (repairs don't have to tear up the pavement) and more effective for just the reasons you describe. Also, it solves the problems motorcycles have with being too light to trigger the pavement sensor. The govt. claims t
Re:Once again, Slashdot trumps logic for technolog (Score:4, Informative)
You may have to explain this one... too light?
The system used here works the same as a metal detector. A wire loop is embedded in the pavement (and it's not that difficult of a process you cut, insert the loop, and tar-seal) and it simply detects metal near the loop (because it changes the resonant frequency of the inductor). I've got two friends that ride motorcycles and they say it has never been a problem for them.
Illegal? (Score:3, Insightful)
Once people know that they will be fined, they will stop using it. If you can't deal with red lights, then don't drive.... it's part of the agreement that we all agree to live by when driving (aka "the law"). These rules are there to make driving safer for everyone.
Re:Illegal? (Score:2, Insightful)
Some radar jammers and such things are illegal because they break FCC rules against unlisensed broadcasts. You can't set a licensing requirement for an infrared transmitter - my hands are putting out infrared right now, as is the air coming out the back of my PC - and so you need a special-purpose law against these specific devices (or more likely their use by ordinary people).
Re:Illegal? (Score:3, Informative)
The former is "far infared" (more far away from the visible-light region of the EM spectrum) and the later is "near infared" (closer to the visible-light region of the EM spectrum)
In order for a CCD camera to detect *heat* infared, you'd have to heat the thing up to the point where the metal would be pretty damn close to glowing -- and at that point, it's releasing visible light/near-IR also, so it's a moot point.
Your hands and PC are *not* rele
Re:Illegal? (Score:5, Insightful)
The only problem there is how do you know which driver among the 20 approaching the intersection has the device? Sure, if you see someone with their arm out the window pointing a remote at the traffic light it's a no-brainer, but an IR transmitter peeking out of the front grill or behind some trinket on the dash would be impossible to make out.
Just make it some enourmous fine... $25000 per offense or some such figure when the device is used for a non-emergency purpose. That way, the devices themselves aren't illegal (though I agree that they probably should be) but the uses are. You could, conceivably, drive your wife to the hospital when she's about to give birth, but you couldn't use it just because you're late for work.
Re:Illegal? (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Illegal?-Tech for the selfish. (Score:2)
Lame (Score:4, Interesting)
The specs have been out on how to build these things for years. Never caught on, maybe because they felt like the whole beige/black/red/blue box phenomenon. MAYBE if they start showing up in places like Best Buy it will catch on, but even still, I doubt it. Besides, I asked some EMTs/the driver one time if the light at the intersections would benefit them by this light predetermination technology. They said no. Doesn't matter because people still run the yellow and red lights so they still have to slow down. And this was for a signal 100 ft. from the station driveway.
I concede that yes, it may help in congested downtown areas like LA or NY, but in 95% of the U.S. they either aren't installed or useful enough to justify their cost.
BTW, it's just a pre-canned, encoded signal on a fixed carrier wave over an infrared signal. Think "really powerful remote control" for you newbies.
Obligatory Simpsons reference (Score:5, Funny)
Lenny [flooring it]: "Stay yellow! Stay yellow!"
Minneapolis/St. Paul (Score:2, Interesting)
If there's any justice... (Score:2)
Why "I" would never use one of these. (Score:2, Insightful)
"Please do not block these doors, we may be going to you house"
Anyone who is using one of these to get through a red light should be lit on fire and left in the middle of the intersection. Lets see how long it takes the ambulance to get there navagaing the traffic gridlock these people cause.
Easy enough to catch (Score:5, Funny)
2. IR shows up on B&W CCD cameras.
1+2 = just have someone watch vids for cars that have bright IR pulses coming from the dash.
3 ????
4. Profit
We have light-sensitive systems in the UK (Score:5, Interesting)
If an ambulance is approaching lights on red he can flash his full beams a few times and the sequence changes.
I use this feature all the time at the lights near my house, especially late at night when the deafult sequence on the lights is to stay green for the main road all the time unless a car approaches on the minor road.
Rarely used (Score:4, Informative)
On top of that, traffic regulations technically require ambulances to stop at red lights and proceed through after the've verified that traffic is stopped. I think the siren would be more effective than a sudden red light.
Maybe I can see a use for turning it green, as it would help get the traffic in front out of the way, give them space to pull over, but for this to work, they'd have to activate it from a distance. Since IR isn't focused like a laser, I doubt it would work from a great distance.
Re:Rarely used (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Rarely used (Score:5, Insightful)
Could this be the a classic Chrome Box? (Score:5, Informative)
If you want proof, consult the google time machine [google.com]. Scroll down or search for "Chrome Box".
Re:Could this be the a classic Chrome Box? (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Could this be the a classic Chrome Box? (Score:3, Interesting)
I remember using these 'tools' back in the day when it was cheap thrills and soldering experience but now a days the only box I want is the one that gets 12v off ring and tip for power outages (forgot the color, anyone remember?)
PS: #phreaks on dalnet was the shit in 1993 (pre-Hackers the Motion Picture)
More info about optocom sensors (Score:5, Informative)
Comment removed (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:One legit use I can think of (Score:3, Insightful)
no, no, no! (Score:3, Insightful)
Ye Gods, NO! It's taken city planners decades to install and tweak centrally controled lights so that traffic flows. Now assholes will come along and make EVERYONE wait when they disrupt a flow that's been synchronized to minimize group time spent. You might as well request additional traffic accidents. People here are polite compared to other places and wait their turn when the lights go out, yet the delay is awful. Things were just starting to work where I lived. Polling systems that simply count cars won't work. It would take enourmous computing power to adjust the flow programs bassed on traffic. That's worth persuing, but boxes that flip the switch should earn the user a heafty ticket. I can just imagine the kinds of nimrods who will use this. Uhg, we have set up a system of privalidge (that's Frech for privat law, Gus) that will be abused. I hate it.
Pigs in paradise. (Score:3, Insightful)
Needless to say common sense got the better of me and I realised that another line of work was called for. Driving by intimidation "me first" is for assholes not pros. Emergency vehicle drivers need to be given the right of way PERIOD. This law cannot change, otherwise the carnage of today will be nothing compared to what will happen with assholes using this device.
*sigh* (Score:4, Interesting)
Maybe if everybody drove the speed limit they'd synchronize with the timers in the traffic lights and not get stopped by a red light to begin with.
(It also provides the enjoyment of sailing past the Honda weed-eaters, the ones that just had to hurry up and beat everybody else to the next red light.)
Double sigh (Score:3, Insightful)
Alternate method (Score:5, Funny)
Mostly unnecessary in California (Score:5, Interesting)
For example, if there are left turn lanes on opposing lanes at an intersection, and one of those lanes is empty but the other is full, when the lights turn green the left turn lane for the empty lane stays red and simultaneously turn the signal green for opposing straight-through traffic. Not only that, but the left turn signal would only stay green until the last car had cleared or until a maximum time interval elapsed, at which point it would turn red again and allow opposing straight-through traffic to flow. In fact, if there was no waiting straight-through traffic in the one direction, some lights would just stay green for the lanes that had it until a car attempting to cross the intersection would trigger a timer.
Contrast this with, say, Edmonton, Alberta's dreadful traffic system, where nearly everything is on straight timers save for buses with road sensors and emergency vehicles, and there are no timing lights for freeway on-ramps. There are some sensors at some intersections, but by and large nearly everything is timed and it creates frustration and accidents. It's doubly ironic considering that Edmonton has the highest density of traffic lights in North America and traffic circles on major roadways!
In other words, if you design your traffic system the right way the first time, devices like this become unnecessary. An economist once commented that traffic lights are a nearly perfect unbiased system for resolving conflict. Why create bias in favor of certain selfish individuals? It doesn't work in economies, and it doesn't work on roadways.
Come on, fellow libertarians! (Score:5, Funny)
Competition and free markets make everything better. They work great for companies, which is a strong indicator that they improve everything else, too- like public schools, the electrical power grid, and traffic lights at intersections. Why should emergency response vehicles receive a government-granted monopoly on the control of traffic lights? This is just old-fashioned, socialist thinking. If I want to turn my light green and yours red, and I'm willing to pay money for the privilege, why shouldn't I get the right of way? I've got more discretionary income, which means my time is probably more important than yours anyway. Government should not be standing on our necks and telling us who can and can't control traffic lights. The "invisible hand" can do a better job of guiding traffic through intersections anyway!
I can hear the socialists whining even now. "But what about the poor ambulance and police cars?" they'll say. They're so addicted to government regulation they don't realize how wonderful things would be if it were every man for himself. Hey, why should the government have a monopoly on ambulance service and law enforcement? My Expedition has plenty of room in the back for a heart attack victim or a criminal. If I'm willing to pay the money I should be able to offer a competing emergency response service as I sail through an endless sea of green lights and yap on my cellphone. To argue otherwise is socialist, and we've learned from the fall of the Soviet Union that socialism doesn't work, people.
OK, so it's a cheap shot at you guys. I can't resist- it's so much fun, and you make it so easy!
Lame (Score:5, Insightful)
I emailed the owner a week ago... (Score:3, Interesting)
------------
Please let me explain a little about our web site and new product launch campaign.
The web site should be very clear that we are looking for "dealers" to sign up and sell our new product. The site explains who the customers are, and the advantages of our new product.
I am an electrical designer by trade, however the main focus of my business has been the sale and manufacture of firearms and accessories, of which we sell to Law Enforcement, Military and others. The idea for the development for this product came about from discussions I have had with our Law enforcement customers. They provided an explanation that many vehicles in there fleet are not equipped with traffic light preemption, because of the cost. The market is now dominated by 3M Corp. and they sell this technology for up to $5,000 per installation. I have applied my design back ground to offer an affordable solution to this problem.
It took over 2 years of development and testing from outside labs to perfect this product. A substantial investment, in the multiple 6 figures has been expended. So now what do we do to "get the word out" we have several challenges. one is that 3M has factory reps all over the country, and we must establish our own rep network to promote our product. How can this be done? My answer to this was to hire 12 advertising executives with a budget of 100K per month to brand our name, to show our product, and to establish a dealer network quickly to provide maximum market coverage. The first phase was national branding, the second phase will be national TV news and talk shows.
We have a unique product and we need to get the word out.
Now, your view of what my company is doing is to sell to the public, please understand that every effort has been made to qualify what this product does, who will benefit from it and to find individuals interested in selling this item. I have chosen to do this in a bold way, which includes internet exposure to people in the trade (i.e. EMS, Law Enforcement, etc) and also to individuals that are interested in a unique business opportunity.
When something gets advertised on the internet it seems it looses credibility, I understand this and am working hard to redesign the site to overcome this problem.
Back to who we sell to and who we do not sell to. We require a legal agreement signed by a dealer, no one else in this industry requires this, after that we qualify the dealer to make sure we want them to represent this product. We go far beyond what is asked of us to qualify the dealer and NO individuals are allowed to buy this product for there own use. You and I both understand that this is not an option. We will not sell to individuals, even though there is no law preventing a company from doing so. We are trying to launch a truly revolutionary product, much different that what has been on the market for over 25 years. I feel great about this product having designed it myself and understand that it is truly a win solution for all involved. I can feel good knowing that my product will save lives, in two ways, one is that it will secure an intersection making it safer(plenty of stats available on this point from Federal ITC division) and two that it will allow first responders to get to where they need to be earlier than without this technology. For example, a heart attack victim has a diminishing chance of survival for every minute lost in response time.
I'm sorry to make this so lengthily, but I feel a strong need to communicate these points to you, and if you would be kind enough provide me feed back as to where I'm going wrong with my presentation, what, in your mind would communicate this better?
To wrap up, my policy is simple, if a dealer or end user uses this device improperly we will pursue immediate legal action, this cannot be allowed and won't be.
Please respond as I would like your input.
[deleted]
Maybe (Score:3)
Some interesting tid-bits: (Score:5, Interesting)
Only police department vehicles are allowed to proceed through red lights without stoping.
EMS and Fire trucks have to make a full stop at every red light while going lights and sirens to a job, regardless of the priority.
In reality, I slow down significantly and roll through at a cool 3-5mph.
Lights and sirens for EMS and fire are a courtsesy. The guy in front of you is in now way obligated to blow a red light for you if he feels it's unsafe for him to proceed. Oh, and btw, if a medic or emt gets on the P.A. and tells you to cross a red light, and you get into and accident, the medic is at fault for the acccident.
Going down one way streets and driving on the opposite side of the road are allowed, with the understanding that you do so at reduced speed and with extreme caution, any accident in this situation is all on your shoulders.
Here in Manhattan, slow and steady is the best way. You can't justify injuring bystanders for someone who is already sick.
And with critical patients in the back, you'll drive even slower to the hospital 'cause there's alot of things that we need to that can't be done if you're bouncing around the back cab like a virgin's first visit to some Panamanian wha wha rumphouse.
These device have been mentioned here in the city, and it was agreed that it would cuase more confusion and possibly more liability for the city than it's worth.
--
Saw one years ago (Score:3, Interesting)
First, it didn't always work. Those sensors are positioned to see the pulsing signal from a light on top of a tall vehicle, like an ambulance or fire truck. He had an ordinary car which meant it was a lot lower than it should be. The sensors seem to have a cone-shaped sensitive area which obviously narrows you approach the intersection. So as he got closer to the intersection, where the weaker light might have a chance, he'd usually be outside the sensitive cone shape.
Second, it was hard to tell when it was working. We did get what seemed like an unusually large number of green lights... but it was hard to tell if the "go box" was triggering them, or if we were just getting lucky. In several cases, traffic was also flowing through the intersection the other way which meant it hadn't done anything. Apparantly, the lights turn red in all other directions.
However, we did approach one intersection where there was absolutely no doubt it worked. The light was green, turned yellow, and then turned green again. That absolutely never happens under normal circumstances, and when I saw that I knew it did indeed do something. This interection was approaching the crest of a small hill, and it was complex with five streets (one at a funny angle). As we got closer, the light must have bounced off something else, because the obviously unnatural green light we got turned yellow briefly and then red. I don't know what the drivers saw in the other four directions approaching the interestion, but they must have seen something equally strange, because we sat there for a LONG time as did the cars in coming from the other directions. NOBODY was willing to drive into that interestion, because it was obvious to all the cars that the light was screwed up somehow. That's something that virtually never happens. Traffic lights are incredibly reliable (must not be running Microsoft's products). And when confronted with a screwed up light, nobody was willing to be the first to risk driving into the intersection, even as the controller recovered and started it normal sequence giving green lights. After about 10 minutes, people started to believe a green really was safe and we got to move forward. This was during rush hour on a very busy 4-lane road... so it must have caused quite a bit of traffic backup.
Anyway, my friend's "go box" (as he called it) eventually stopped working. It was home made and it used massive power to turn on those LEDs. They were probably running many times over their rated current. He couldn't turn the switch on too long or it'd blow the fuse to his cigarette lighter. Apparantly he'd replaced the normal fuse with 30 amps which allowed it to run for a minute or so. The wires and everything else about it got really hot. So it's no wonder it stopped working after a while. He talked a few times about building a bigger and better one... but ultimately it was not worth the effort. It couldn't reliably trigger most of the lights. He had many other stories of turning a light green and being stuck behind someone who'd just stopped and wasn't paying attention to the light because it wasn't expected to turn green again for a while. He used to joke "you really also need the lights and siren to make the other cars get out of your way".
Posting anonymously for obvious reasons...
detection and prevention (Score:5, Insightful)
2. retrofit traffic light camera's to snap pictures of the traffic when the system is activated. Remove the infrared filter from the camera and the camera will easily and plainly show the vehicle that is attempting to open the intersection. You get a picture of the perp and his license plate, plus the light will be plainly visible to the camera. Perfect evidence for a court case.
If the system is coded and someone attempts to copy the codes then they can prosecute them for hacking into a governemnt computer system.
After all, the traffic lights are computer controlled, they should not be accessible to the public and if you hacked the system via the Internet it would be your nuts on the chopping block.
Outdated (Score:3, Informative)
In my town... (Score:3, Insightful)
I suspect they all work this way, and any talk about a device that makes lights green is PURE NONSENSE.
What's Wrong with Just Jumping the Lights? (Score:4, Insightful)
If I come up to a red light, I'm stopping. If I hear an ambulance behind me, I expect it to jump the lights! The poeple on the green lane hear the ambulance and stop/slow down too.
Works fine over here. Is there something special about US traffic?
What about a free market (Score:3, Interesting)
All the money gathered would be put back into road maintenance/improvement.
Translation (Score:3, Funny)
Computer Support Version:
"Let's give everyone Admin Rights!"
Who's designing this.... Microsoft?
Read-only lights (Score:3, Interesting)
I've seen several cases where drivers, in heavy traffic congestion, were paying too much attention to the light above them to notice the stopped car in front of them.
I've also noticed lot of insane acceleration on the highways cutting through town when drivers see the green light a mile or so down the road. Many of them go from about 60 (the limit) to about 95 because (due to the road curvature before the light comes into view) they don't know how long the light has been green, and they smash the gas pedal in hopes that they can make it.
Knowing the light's status and timing with certainty from an adequate distance would at least allow more informed insanity (where slowing down or keeping a legal speed would be more likely to place you at the next green light safely -- for yourself and the other drivers).
Re:I remember... (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Will yellow still mean gas it? (Score:2)
From the article: Police are worried about the possibility of intersection chaos if people duel over control for lights. But even more fundamentally, the dashboard device may be impossible to detect even from a police car right next to it, and it may be perfectly legal anyway.
Hmm... it may be legal? Expect some interesting legal cases soon, folks.
Re:Awww... (Score:2)
Re:"Maybe if everyone had these, it would lead..." (Score:5, Insightful)
I think the idea was that mass dueling transmitters might be smarter than weight sensors or cameras. I see this, however, as a perfect case study for the Tragedy of the Commons.
Re:Plans? (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Plans? (Score:3, Insightful)
It had to happen sooner or later. If they don't already the next versions will just employ strong encryption to foil the morons buying these.
Re:Plans? (Score:5, Funny)
Before long will see those soccer moms with 3 kids in the back of her gas-guzzler pointing her cell phone at the light in between breaths of talking to her friends from the social club.
Life is so unfair.
Re:Plans? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Plans? (Score:5, Insightful)
Design the device to make the lights go RED in all directions. Emergency vehicles can safely drive around the waiting traffic on the 'wrong' side of the road, because there's no oncoming traffic. There's no 'subtle' way for a non-emergency vehicle to use this type of device.
Re:Plans? (Score:4, Funny)
Except that... (Score:5, Insightful)
I'd say that it should be very, very illegal for normal people to have these devices, perhaps you could give certain traffic lights a camera that snaps the license of whomever flashed it the "green" signal, therefore determining whom is making unauthorized use of the system
Re:Except that... (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Except that... (Score:3, Interesting)
The system is prone to abuse any way you cut it. You can easily make the use of these devices illegal by general public. You can even try to outlaw the devices themselves (although I doubt that would be successful). You can spend lots o
Re:Plans? (Score:3, Insightful)
Obviously the court will probably be lenient, since they were doing it for a good reason, but the drivers still need to be aware of the dangers they can pose by not at least slowing down a bit before hitting a red in case somebody is still driving across the intersection.
Re:Plans? (Score:4, Funny)
gonna bet my gf a bj that there are no red lights on our drive home tomorrow.
wish me luck!
geek gear [wabshirts.com]
Re:Thought this was an urban legend. (Score:3, Informative)