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Entertainment

Dish Network & Viacom Settle Their Differences 251

Posted by CmdrTaco from the jon-stewart-returns-to-the-needy dept.
weshart writes "I haven't yet seen anyone mention the fact that CBS and other Viacom channels are back on DishNetwork. They've been unavailable for the past day and a half, as was reported earlier. No word on the details of the agreement; and the DishNetwork announcement doesn't say anything about whether or not they'll be raising their rates."
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Dish Network & Viacom Settle Their Differences More

Dish Network & Viacom Settle Their Differences

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  • Wonderfull (Score:5, Funny)

    by panxerox ( 575545 ) * on Thursday March 11, 2004 @01:41PM (#8534053)
    Just in time to see Rupert get kicked off survivor allstars

  • I wish... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by swordboy ( 472941 ) on Thursday March 11, 2004 @01:42PM (#8534068) Journal
    It would be nice to see Dish stand up to Viacom and leave them out of the most basic package. I believe it is only around $1 for the programming but I don't like the fact that Viacom thinks that they can just raise their rates arbitrarily and remain in basic packages.

    Besides, MTV is evil.

    • Re:I wish... (Score:2, Insightful)

      by webtre ( 717698 )
      Some people use TV to watch the Discovery Channel; some use it for MTV.

      Some people use the Internet for research, discussion, and news; others use it for warez and porn.

      Hey, I could take a screwdriver and deside to poke myself in the eye with it... does that mean we don't need screwdrivers?
    • If you're a Viacom stock holder, wouldn't you like them to "arbitrarily" raise their rates if they believe it will make them more money?

      If they have so much control over the market, we should be looking for anti-trust violations and legal action. Viacom isn't going to just "be nice." And they owe it to their shareholders not to just be nice and charge lower rates.

    • Re:I wish... (Score:3, Interesting)

      by gradji ( 188612 )
      I agree: MTV is evil.

      But I also disagree: why is it necessarily disagreeable for Viacom to be able to raise their rates arbitrarily?

      The problem would be if Viacom had decided to raise their rates for one cable TV provider and not others (providing service in the same geographic area). For example, if Viacom decides to play nice with the local cable TV company (Time Warner, Cox, etc) but not the Echostar (Dish) ... then I would find the rate increase very troublesome for its anti-competitive implications

      • Re:I wish... (Score:2, Insightful)

        by dcocos ( 128532 )
        This is how supply and demand works in a market.

        apparently you only sat in on the first day of class you missed key terms like "economies of scale" and "marginal cost" which would help explain to you that when someone controls a channel (no pun intended) as large as DishNetwork the rules are different.

        I also won't go into detail on things like in a true market you could choose to buy MTV from more than one vendor see the term "monopoly"

        to sum it up simple supply and demand only works in a "free" marke

      • Re:I wish... (Score:2, Informative)

        by NoodleSlayer ( 603762 )
        If I remember right DishNetwork (And DirecTV along with all cable providers) are required by law to carry all the major local networks, or none at all, as it wouldn't be fair for them to carry NBC and Fox but not CBS and ABC, or at least that's how the logic goes.

        I'd have to look it up to be any more sure. But I know that when these games have been played in the past they never lasted long because both sides are scared of the FCC stepping in and dictating terms.

  • Whew! (Score:5, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday March 11, 2004 @01:43PM (#8534073)
    I was worried I might miss some groundbreaking television like yet another reality show.

    • Re:Whew! (Score:5, Funny)

      by PhxBlue ( 562201 ) on Thursday March 11, 2004 @01:48PM (#8534140) Homepage Journal

      . . .or Janet Jackson's other boob. :)

    • Re:Whew! (Score:4, Interesting)

      by Quasar1999 ( 520073 ) on Thursday March 11, 2004 @02:16PM (#8534483) Journal
      Actually, the very, very, very odd thing is that UPN pulled new enterprise shows until April 21st... UPN is owned by parent company Paramount, owned by Viacomm... I find it odd that a lot of Viacomm owned shows seem to have gone on hold until mid April... I'm sure it was just coincidence that all new shows stopped just around the time they expected Dish network to pull their channels... hmmm... where's my tinfoil hat?

      • Uh, it's called sweeps (Score:3, Interesting)

        by Anonymous Coward
        It happens every year. They save the final few episodes for late-April/May when the season ends, so they'll get the highest ratings during the May sweeps period. Most networks do it.
      • It's because TV is driven by the paterns of the sweeps. All of the high-rating shows are being rested with either preemptions or reruns now to conserve expensive new episodes for the May sweeps, plus one or two episodes to run just before the sweeps start to get people back into the patern.

  • They had to... (Score:4, Insightful)

    by robslimo ( 587196 ) on Thursday March 11, 2004 @01:43PM (#8534076) Homepage Journal
    settle their differences. They rely on each other too much.

    It's just a darned shame they had to wage their petty little feud on our TV screens. Like little children...

    --
    I'm robSlimo [slashdot.org], the username is a
    product of frustration after losing the pwd to RatOmeter [slashdot.org].

    • And I bet Viacom ended up with everything they wanted. Nicktoons was one of the sticking points, and Dish is now publicly saying that it was included in the settlement.
      • Perhaps but I suspect the sticking point wasn't whether Dish would carry NickToons but rather how much they would pay and which package it would go into. Offered it gratis, you bet Dish would've carried it.

        That's what this was about, control. Not content, just control. That's what everything's about.

  • Dish Caved (Score:3, Informative)

    by the eric conspiracy ( 20178 ) on Thursday March 11, 2004 @01:44PM (#8534087)
    CNBC basically described the situation as Echostar caving in to Viacom's demands for a $.72/year fee hike.

    Looks like content is king.

    • Re:Dish Caved (Score:5, Insightful)

      by LostCluster ( 625375 ) * on Thursday March 11, 2004 @01:55PM (#8534221)
      Viacom may have got their rate hike on the existing channels, but they did not get any new channels added to the lowest-level America's Top 60 package that competes as being the cheapest pay-TV package anybody can buy. Nicktoons was forced into the more expensive America's Top 180 package.

      Viacom was claiming that Dish network raised prices on their packages up to $3... but those who have the low-level package and their locals only had a one cent increase, and those who do not have their locals available saw no increase at all on the low-level package. It should be noticed that it's in this low level package that nearly all of the disputed channels are in.

      It may be that Dish succeeded in getting all of the increases on the rates of the few channels that are in the higher packages, thus protecting the cost of the low-level package.

  • I'm a Dish customer (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday March 11, 2004 @01:45PM (#8534107)
    I'm a Dish Network customer, and while I'm disappointed that I could lose Comedy Central, I know where to place my anger. Dish Network seems to be the only provider that goes to any effort at all to keep rates down. Viacom is trying to frustrate that goal by forcing Echostar to add yet another damn channel (Nicktoons) and raise provider rates on channels that are already one-third (or more, counting overnight "paid programming") commercials. Those costs don't get paid by cable/satellite providers - they're paid by customers who get the costs passed on to them.
    • NickToons does still play 2 episodes of Invader Zim every weekend & Monday. It's pretty desirable for that reason alone.
    • The only Viacom property that's worth anything is Comedy Central and the 16 large market CBS statsions. The rest are largely junk. I hate that instead of creating better properties and/or improving existing ones Viacom wants to foist off the rest of its crap in order to get something worth while. Prohibitive bundling requirements needs to be stoped. Kudos to Dish for trying to do something about it! Now, how do we the viewing public vent our collective ire on Viacom ?
      • Stolen from Google's cashe, since Dish isn't hosting it anymore.

        For MTV, VH1, Nickelodeon and other cable networks
        Call 212-258-8000.
        For Viacom Corporate
        Call 212-258-6000.

        For CBS Corporate
        Call 212-975-4321 or email them at audsvcs@cbs.com

        Also some CBS info

        Austin CBS KEYE Gary Schneider General Manager 512-835-0042
        Baltimore CBS WJZ Jay Newman VP/General Manager 410-466-0013
        Boston CBS WBZ Ed Goldman VP/General Manager 617-787-7000
        Chicago CBS WBBM Joe Ahern President/GM 312-944-6000
        Dallas-Ft. Worth CBS KTVT
    • This is the weirdest thing I've ever seen. Why would someone karma whore as an AC?

      This is a cut&paste of my message from here [slashdot.org].

  • A few factoids... (Score:5, Informative)

    by LostCluster ( 625375 ) * on Thursday March 11, 2004 @01:46PM (#8534119)
    Here's a few things we do know about the deal:

    - One of the reported sources of conflict was Viacom's demand that Dish add the new Nicktoons network into their lowest base package, America's top 60. That didn't happen. Instead, the network will be added to one of Dish's more obscure packages, America's Top 180.
    - The three notable Viacom-owned networks that weren't deleted from Dish Network, namely TV Land, SpikeTV and CMT had contracts that expired at a different time, and Viacom wanted those three networks to be tied to expire at the same time as the rest of Viacom's channels. Apparently, those three networks have had their contracts extended as part of this deal. No official statement on when they now expire, but I think we can all assume the next time things expire, everything will all expire together.
    - Echostar had a pretty good anti-trust lawsuit working against claiming that the tactic of withholding the popular networks to force the purchase of unpopular networks is illegal because it's using a monopoly product (copyrighted content) to force the purchase of another product. If Echostar had won, this would send a shockwave through the industry because every content provider does this to every signal distributor. However, we'll never know the result of this suit because this deal agrees to dismiss all pending litigation between both companies.
    - Every Dish Network Subscriber will recieve a $1 credit on their next bill, and those who also subscribe to a locals package that lost their CBS station will get a second $1 credit on their next bill as well. These will not be pro-rated down to pennies because the outage only lasted 36 hours. In addition, all Dish Network subscribers will get a coupon for a free pay per view movie, which is worth $3.99. The cash credits will cost the company at least $15 million, and allowing for the fact that some of the coupons will be unused the PPV movie offer should cost the company about $10-15 million. Ironic, because $25-30 million is about the total price increase Viacom was seeking.
    • >> The cash credits will cost the company at least $15 million, and allowing for the fact that some of the coupons will be unused the PPV movie offer should cost the company about $10-15 million. Ironic, because $25-30 million is about the total price increase Viacom was seeking.

      I wouldn't consider all of the used PPV movies as a "cost" to the company either. I have NEVER bought a pay-per-view movie from any cable or satellite provider, ever. However, I received a free PPV movie in my last bill, a

      • Re:A few factoids... (Score:4, Informative)

        by LostCluster ( 625375 ) * on Thursday March 11, 2004 @01:57PM (#8534246)
        This doesn't cost Dish Network anything, since it costs them nothing to provide the service and they are not losing out on money I would have otherwise paid them.

        Nope. Dish has to pay the movie studios per viewing for the content on the PPV services. For every coupon redeemed, Dish will have to pay the movie supplier their cut of the fee despite the fact that Dish isn't collecting a fee.

    • Re:A few factoids... (Score:3, Informative)

      by NixterAg ( 198468 )
      The cash credits will cost the company at least $15 million, and allowing for the fact that some of the coupons will be unused the PPV movie offer should cost the company about $10-15 million.

      $15 million a company won't make is not $15 million lost. The fact is, 95% of those receiving the coupon wouldn't have bought a movie anyway. This also gives Echostar a way to advertise the ease-of-use of Dish-on-demand, meaning that some people will become Dish-on-demand customers that would have never considered
      • However, Dish will still have to pay the movie studio for each viewing, even though they're not collecting a fee. That will be actual money they have to pay since Echostar doesn't own any movies by itself...
      • ... meaning that some people will become Dish-on-demand customers ...

        It also means that some people will hook their receivers up to the phone line, thus providing all the demographic and viewing data back to Dish, which they can sell to marketers.

        Not to mention all the ilicit photos their receivers have been taking with the camera located behind the little plastic window they want you to think is the infrared remote control port.

    • Re:A few factoids... (Score:2, Interesting)

      by alberk ( 761269 )
      That money is going towards the customers now, not Viacom... I imagine that's either a short insult to Viacom or Dish's way out of any possible lawsuits that could occur. Either way, kudo's to Dish and wow gee, now I get to see repeats of CSI and South Park.

    • Re:A few factoids... (Score:5, Insightful)

      by jared_hanson ( 514797 ) on Thursday March 11, 2004 @02:03PM (#8534321) Homepage Journal
      The cash credits will cost the company at least $15 million, and allowing for the fact that some of the coupons will be unused the PPV movie offer should cost the company about $10-15 million. Ironic, because $25-30 million is about the total price increase Viacom was seeking.

      You might pay a big price to win a battle if it wins you the entire war. If EchoStar had given in to Viacom, it would have showed a weakness that Viacom would then try to exploit every time their contract came under negotiation, not to mention all the other content providers that would try the same underhanded tactics.

      Plus, the way things turned out, customers get a break in pricing for a minor inconvenience. The rates as a whole should stay flat. If Viacom succeeded, rates would likely go up. If that happened, EchoStar would likely lose a number of subscribers to other, cheaper alternatives. The money they paid was paid in order to keep and gain subscribers, rather than lose them.
    • Instead, the network will be added to one of Dish's more obscure packages, America's Top 180.
      How is it obscure? Go to the DISH website and click on programming. That simple.

  • Seems to have been in Dish's favor (Score:5, Informative)

    by cmeans ( 81143 ) * <.chris.a.means. .at. .gmail.com.> on Thursday March 11, 2004 @01:48PM (#8534142) Journal
    This article [forbes.com] seems to have a bit more meat.

  • Wonderful. (Score:4, Interesting)

    by hot_Karls_bad_cavern ( 759797 ) on Thursday March 11, 2004 @01:48PM (#8534148) Journal
    Great.

    So who lost?. Us. We, the consumers, lost. i really do not like this new ease at which the people are pushed aside and ignored so easily. It's really discouraging. The bickering spilled over into ugly text on the screens and then black bars over the ugly text. Who lost? Us. We lost. How many people are *actually* going to switch services? Not many.

    No? Oh yes my friend, very few will. Why? Because of the hit they will take from "ducking out early" on the contract or a hit on credit for giving the old providers the finger. Not many people are willing to pay off the rest of their contract *and* start paying a new one just to switch service over this.

    Lesson to the providers? We can do whatever the fuck we want (just don't piss off the FCC)...the consumers are too locked in and/or lazy to raise hell on us.

    Sad. Very, very sad.

    • Tell that to those that left (Score:5, Interesting)

      by StringBlade ( 557322 ) on Thursday March 11, 2004 @02:11PM (#8534410) Journal
      How many people are *actually* going to switch services? Not many.
      No? Oh yes my friend, very few will.

      Unfortunately there were enough people switching in the span of a day to warrant news articles across the country (check Google News yesterday for 'Viacom Dish Network') stating that cable companies are/were getting an influx of cable orders from people jumping off Dish. In some cases, these people will have to wait up to a week for cable service because of the demand.

      I'm sure most of these 'jumpers' did not break their contract because it wouldn't be worth it. Rather, their contract was up already and they needed their Nickelodeon for little Timmy (age 3-4) because he won't go to bed until he watches his Spongebob Squarepants or Dora the Explorer. One day was too much to take after his screaming fit (or they wanted to prevent that fit if possible).

      Sadly, now they're just stuck in the position of paying more for cable because they're probably too proud (or frightened) to go back to Dish. I feel even more pity for the few fools who jumped into a DirecTV contract within that 36 hours' time.

      • It'd be interesting to see how many actually go through with their switches since not very many could be made during the 36 hours during which the outage when on.
    • Overall, I agree with you. We, the audience, lost this one - Not because of the crap pulled on both sides, or because of increased rates, or because of missed "favorite show"s...

      We "lost", because this had the potential to go to court and make the FCC's ruling of a few years ago (about unbundled content) actually apply, giving us some real choice in our available programming (which would benefit everyone except those who produce the worst of the worst for content). Bundling has no effect beyond subsidiz
    • I despise Echostar, but their practice of locking people in with 1 year contracts benefits both them and their customers.

      They spend more money to manufacture their receivers than they charge for them. Unlike DirecTV, Echostar makes all of their own receivers. They don't have RCA or whomever making them. If they don't have the agreement that you will be with them for a year, they can't be sure to recoup the cost of making that receiver. Unless you have their Everything Pack, they don't start making any prof

    • ... very few will (switch services). Why? Because of the hit they will take from "ducking out early" on the contract or a hit on credit for giving the old providers the finger.

      That's an amazingly shallow view. I'm a Dish subscriber with options because my cable company has an offer to pay for any penalties incurred. And yet I won't switch from Dish; my knee doesn't jerk just because a channel went missing for two days.Maybe it's a maturity thing, but consider beyond just that you lost your network TV for

    • As a Dish customer myself with about 1 year left on my contract (America's Top 60), I fired off a letter complaining about the situation, and my wife called and requested that our account be suspended until the missing channels were returned to the package. (You're able to suspend your programming for up to, I believe, 90 days, without having to pay a fee for breaking your contract. They usually offer this for when you go on vacation, so you don't pay for time you're not using the satellite.)

      Judging by t
      • Actually Dish didn't break the terms of your contract. The Contract says they can change the programing at anytime by adding or dropping channels.

        From http://www.dishnetwork.com/content/aboutus/RCA/in d ex.shtml Section 1
        subsection G
        G. Changes in Services offered. DISH Network reserves the right to change the Services that we offer, and our prices or fees related to such Services at any time. If the change affects you, we will provide you notice of the change and its effective date. The notice may be p

  • I don't want my MTV anymore (Score:5, Funny)

    by ackthpt ( 218170 ) * on Thursday March 11, 2004 @01:49PM (#8534154) Homepage Journal
    Having been deprived of it by this little spat I've discovered the joys of the great outdoors, birdsong and the gentle patter of rain on the windowsill.

    Too Britney, Justin, P. Diddy and all, I say, "Foo"

    S'cuse me while I go frolic naked in the periwinkle. Woo!

  • I've learned how few channels I care about (Score:5, Insightful)

    by SydShamino ( 547793 ) on Thursday March 11, 2004 @01:52PM (#8534183)
    After a few nights of "Off line - Press Info" on a host of Viacom-owned channels in my lineup, I've realized how little I cared for those channels anyway. I almost never watched VH1 or Nickelodeon or CBS, but I kept them in my channel list on the off chance a decent show popped up.

    Now, I think I can safely remove them from my favorites list and reduce the scrolling in the guide between useful channels.

    There's nothing like being deprived of something to learn how little you needed it in the first place.
    • Watch out- that's a slippery slope you're on. The next thing you'll realize is that cable is pretty worthless altogether and you'll wonder why you subscribe at all.

      The best part happens about 3 or 4 years after you cancel your subscription. The cable company starts sending you all kinds of offers to try to re-addict you. First three months free! No hookup fee! Most of the shows I used to watch are available on DVD so I don't feel the need to resubscribe. Perhaps if Netflix hadn't come along it would have b

  • Package Pricing (Score:5, Insightful)

    by RobertB-DC ( 622190 ) * on Thursday March 11, 2004 @01:54PM (#8534205) Homepage Journal
    I was explaining the Dish/Viacom dispute to my 8-year-old, who was going through Spongebob [churchofspongebob.org] withdrawal last night.

    Viacom, I explained, wants Dish to buy a whole package of stations, even though Dish thinks some of the channels aren't worth it. Dish wants to pick and choose the stations they buy.

    Fair enough. Except I realized that when I signed up for Dish, I also thought some of the channels aren't worth paying for. But in this case, Dish sees things differently [dishnetwork.com]:
    Allowing customers to substitute channels or add a favorite channel to their package would force us to raise prices. To prevent this, we do not allow channel substitutions. We strive to make satellite programming as affordable as possible. Our packages have been setup in balance with cost effectiveness and consumer demand. One way to help keep our customer?s programming costs low is to provide stations in packages, rather than ala carte.
    Apparently, Dish wants it both ways. Packages are a great idea when Dish forces them on me, but not acceptable when Viacom forces them on them.

    The aforementioned 8-year-old got it right: "They're just fighting like 3-year-olds over a toy, aren't they?" And picking which side to root for is about as silly.

    • Re:Package Pricing (Score:5, Informative)

      by lazytiger ( 170873 ) on Thursday March 11, 2004 @02:06PM (#8534355)
      I was watching Charlie Ergen's chat show the other night and he explained a lot of things that you don't normally hear explained by a big company, let alone from the CEO. I am actually a bigger fan of Dish now than I was before. I really dig the fact that he comes on the air and takes calls and emails from his customers.

      Regarding the packaging of channels, Charlie said that he wishes Dish could do ala carte, but they can't because companies like Viacom won't let them. Viacom (and Disney, and all the rest) explicitly lay out in their contracts with distributors which channels have to be bundled with other specific channels. It's not a matter of Charlie having double standards - he's simply not allowed to break up packages any more than you can.
      • Which is why they should offer consumers choice on these bundles. Then the consumer can choose if they want the Time Warner bundle, or the Viacom bundle and each with their own fees and a note saying that the providers require them to be bundled as such. Put this online so you can change it on the fly, and put a link to viacom, timewarner and whoever else, so they can complain about their practices.

        The consumer doesn't care now, because they don't know.. they're ignorant of this. If they did this, viaco
    • I think it's because they heard Jon Stewart on the Daily Show last night (Comedy Central).


      He said the blackout can lead to violence, which is what happened in Haiti. No Sponge Bob will lead to mass rebellion, bloodshed and carnage...

      :-) Coincidence? I think not. OK, where is my foil hat


      John

    • Dish can't allow you to break up the packages they offer you because they can't break up the packages being sold to them. It's the content suppliers that are forcing the system distributors to maintain package pricing, because no ad-supported network wants to be sold all by itself since they depend on getting stumble-upon viewers.

    • Re:Package Pricing (Score:3, Informative)

      by boarder ( 41071 )
      I question your reasoning. Dish does want it both ways, but I believe they have a right to. There is a real reason for them to do package pricing:

      1) Since decoding is done at the customer's box, every single channel is broadcast to every single home. To add Nicktoons, they have to broadcast it to everyone, regardless of whether anyone wants it.

      2) Each channel they broadcast takes up bandwidth to transmit, and bandwidth costs money.

      3) Each channel costs the same in bandwidth to broadcast as any other c
      • 3) Each channel costs the same in bandwidth to broadcast as any other channel, so the cost scales linearly with number of channels broadcast.

        Almost, but not quite.

        In a digital signal feed, you can add a channel without requiring more bandwidth overall by simply reducing the bitrate of one or more of the other channels. The SUM is limited by physics; the amount allocated to each channel is a decision made by Dish.

        I expect that they have two means of adjusting things: an automated system that detects moti

        • I didn't want to delve into those tech details, but you are definitely correct. I was just trying to make a simplified model. I would also love to see a Sat engineer explain their bandwidth usage metering.

          The other issue I didn't mention was that a popular channel like MTV would cost Dish/DTV more to buy than a smaller channel, so a smaller channel wouldn't need as high of a viewer base to justify it's transmission costs. The actual sats also have have more directed spot beams now, so Indiana would have

  • If the rates raise, I'm gone. (Score:3, Interesting)

    by MoreBeer ( 91936 ) on Thursday March 11, 2004 @01:55PM (#8534218)
    Just going through the pain of 2 days without Comedy Central and CBS have left a sour taste in my mouth. I was seriously considering upgrading my dish setup to include the new 921 DVR, but I'm upset with both Charlie and Viacom. Viacom doesn't directly get my money, but Charlie does... I ain't paying him $900 for a piece of hardware.

    I was 1/2 tempted to pull the trigger on VOOM, but they don't carryTechTV, nor offer a PVR device.

    Instead of watching Letterman the other night, I started reconsidering my options... Comcast does not yet have HDTV cable in my area. I have 4 TVs (1 HD and 4 standard), and I absolutely require the crack that is TechTV _and_ a PVR now that I've sampled the both of them. What's a geek to do? I currently use a HTPC to pull in local channels over the air, but CBS only comes in at around 50% signal strength (WBBM in Chicago Fiasco.) It would be great to get DVR, HD/Standard Def, and program guide integration so I have a wife-proof solution. Anyone else go through these pains?

    DirecTV seems like an option, especially if I pick up the DirecTiVO with DVD recorder, and maybe tack up an HD reciever... but that sounds like it will cost me a bit of coin as well.
    • DirecTiVO with DVD recorder, and maybe tack up an HD reciever...

      There's no such model. There are TiVos that are tied to DirecTV called a "DirecTiVo" or "DirecTV DVR with TiVo Service, and there are also TiVo units integrated with DVD recorders, but there is no unit that does it all.

      You also may want to hold off for a few months. An HD-capable DirecTiVo has been in development for a while and is expected to be worth the wait.
    • If your thinking of DirecTV wait till april or whenever they come out with the HD Tivo's. They will be expensive but as I beleive they are the first HD PVR's that dont involve DIY on a PC it should be worth it.
    • Well, that was enough for me, I AM gone. I called Comcast Tuesday night, and was installed by 5pm Wednesday afternoon.

      I still have all the channels I care about, with the kid's TVs now hooked up to basic cable, and I'm getting a lower price than with Dish. On top of that, I got a $150 immediate credit for dumping Dish, plus another $300 in credits amounting to six months free broadband.

      The only thing I don't have now is my Dish PVR, but Comcast is introducing that feature in my area next month.

      Too bad,
    • If you are a consumer that won't deal with companies who make you angry, then DirectTV isn't the way to go either.

      If you lean appropriately, Rubert Murdoch's business practices could be enough to steer you clear of any of his companies. If not, then DirectTV's actions with regard to legitimate users of flash card readers should be enough to dissuade you.

      I switched from crappy Cox cable to Dish Network in December. I didn't even consider DirectTV because I, like you, try to uphold my principles when I do

  • Damn! That was too quick! (Score:5, Funny)

    by pair-a-noyd ( 594371 ) on Thursday March 11, 2004 @01:58PM (#8534251)
    I was just about to go crazy snapping up CHEAP E* systems from pissed Dish customers as they switch, then sell them back to them later after this worked out..

    I had figured on a ~30 day window. So much for getting rich quick..

  • Good, now the messages stop scrolling (Score:3, Interesting)

    by ManoMarks ( 574691 ) on Thursday March 11, 2004 @01:58PM (#8534252) Journal
    I don't have Dish Network, I have basic cable, and I got all these messages scrolling along the bottom of the screen urging me to call Dish networks to harrass them about some I don't give a flying #%$#$^^&&*! about, and distracting me from my TV watching for days. Just made me change channels, not what they wanted I'm sure, or had any way of tracking.

  • Need for fine grained programming options (Score:3, Interesting)

    by FerretFrottage ( 714136 ) on Thursday March 11, 2004 @02:03PM (#8534315)
    Maybe it's time for a provider to try something new. Sure have the basic-plus-premium packages, but also offer total ala carte programming; just pick the specific channels you want. Maybe offer a /. package: sci-fi, techtv. plyby....what else does a /.'er need? Obviously the content rpvoders such as Viacom want to cram all their other useless channels down your throat, but it would be a interesting idea. Just watch hbo, cbs, fox, and espn , just pay for those channels.

    The sat/cable providers talk about channels costing the consumer "pennies per day", but what is the real cost? How many channels does the consumer really watch and for how long a period. I wouldn't be surprised if it really cost the consumer $10 an episode to just watch Trippin the Rift, given all the other programming they are paying for an not watching. Bah
    • Here we have government mandated channels that nobody wants. In order to carry the costs, they are bundled with other channels.

      I'm sure the same is true in many other places.
    • Satellite and cable companies CAN'T offer a la carte pricing because Viacom, Disney, Time Warner, etc. include provisions in their contracts describing where particular channels go in the channel order.

      For example, let's say you have Disney Channel, TNT and FX in cable package A. Viacom comes along and will let you carry Nickleodeon but ONLY if you put it in the same package as the Disney Channel. Over time, this locks the packages in and neither the cable/satellite company nor the customer have any opt

    • I am inclined to not think so. According to ratings if people bought their channels "channel by channel" then many minor but interesting channels would die out. What would be left are the MTVs, ESPN, and Comedy Channels. Sure these channels are entertaining but they aren't everything.

      I have come to accept that especially in the area of pop culture the majority may rule but it is rarely right and often make poor choices. Where will PBS go? How many will really get BBC America? Are you really going to

  • Excellent (Score:5, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday March 11, 2004 @02:08PM (#8534372)
    Now for the next week Dish Network should scroll the message "Thi$ i$ a VIACOM $tation"

  • Reminds me of sci-fi in ages past (Score:4, Interesting)

    by zakezuke ( 229119 ) on Thursday March 11, 2004 @02:10PM (#8534395)
    There was a time that I wanted the sci-fi channel, but my local cableco wouldn't carry it. It took alot of navigation through their staff to get an honest answer, but it was basicly due to the fact that they them selves couldn't just buy one channel off the link, but they had to get also get a package which included things like bravo. It took a year or so of people like my self sending letters to the cable company basicly saying, "look, we are willing to pay extra for these channels you don't carry, what's the problem". It was the digital age after all, all we need do is phone up a special phone number and poof, we got the channels we've been asking for.

    I see this as being a very much diffrent case. Sci-Fi may not be worth extra bucks, but Bravo and IFC on the other hand are worth extra bucks. This is also a diffrent case because we the consumer made it clear we were willing to pay for something extra.
  • I considered sending them e-mails congratulating them on not having them on there any more.

  • ...now have to purchase major satellite or cable providers.

    If Comcast purchases Disney, along with Time Warner owning (surprise!) Time Warner Cable, and News Corp. controlling DirecTV, then the distinct possibility exists of them essentially reaching a truce whereby they agree to give each other discounts on each other's programming as a quid pro quo. Since GE (NBC, Bravo, USA, Telemundo, etc.) and Viacom won't have the quid for the quo, that puts them at a large disadvantage.

    The obvious solution to su

    • If Comcast purchases Disney, along with Time Warner owning (surprise!) Time Warner Cable, and News Corp. controlling DirecTV, then the distinct possibility exists of them essentially reaching a truce whereby they agree to give each other discounts on each other's programming as a quid pro quo. Since GE (NBC, Bravo, USA, Telemundo, etc.) and Viacom won't have the quid for the quo, that puts them at a large disadvantage.

      Likewise, Dish network would be the only major signal distributor without any content to

  • Just like everyone has his or her own corner of the Internet, is everyone trying to get his or her own little entertainment channel going? And are they expecting to be able to use the cable/dish companies to reach into the consumers' pocketbooks and siphon out money?

    The cable and dish companies have monthly price points at which they market their offerings. They know that Grandpa Joe Innercity is just fine with local analog basic service for $11.99. Bob and Mary Suburban are willing to pay $44.99 to get

  • Shady business (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Elf-friend ( 554128 )
    Seems to me that Dish wants their customers to think that Viacom caved. The whole statement reeks of a cover-up.

    I don't think anyone in their right mind thought that Dish could win this, anyhow. The timing couldn't have been worse, with the NCAA tournament and all. As much as I hate their guts, there was no way Viacom was gonna blink first.

    Mind you, I've not been unhappy with Dish over the four (IIRC) years we've had them: they beat the wireless cable we had before, hands down. However, I do think the

  • I haven't yet seen anyone mention the fact that CBS and other Viacom channels are back on DishNetwork

    It might be because most people weren't missing much...

  • What dish emailed me (Score:3, Informative)

    by piles_of_spam ( 731247 ) on Thursday March 11, 2004 @03:16PM (#8535453)
    I complained to dish and Viacom by email, warning dish that I would cancel the service if those channels were not restored (I don't really care who is to blame).
    I got a response quickly from an actual person at Dish (I was impressed by this) but not from Viacom. The letter was apologetic, and directed towards my particular concerns, but suggested I voice my displeasure to Viacom as well; this I had already done. Today after the channels were restored I received this dish form letter, which you'll notice does not address price hikes (or a lack thereof):

    Dear Loyal DISH Network Customer,

    I am very pleased to announce that we've successfully reached a long-term agreement with Viacom to provide you with CBS and MTV Networks including MTV, Comedy Central, and Nickelodeon. I am happy to say that this agreement will allow us to continue to provide you the lowest all-digital price everyday.

    I understand that it has been a difficult 36 hours to be without these popular channels. We appreciate your patience, your support for DISH Network and your continued business.

    As promised, you will receive a credit on your next billing statement. In addition, we would like to thank you for all of your support by sending you a free DISH On Demand Pay-Per-View coupon that will allow you to view upcoming hits like "Cat in the Hat" and "School of Rock." The coupon will arrive in your April billing statement. Enjoy a movie on us.

    Everyone at DISH Network will continue to fight to provide the best possible programming and services at the lowest possible price, every day.

    Thank you for your loyalty and thank you for being a DISH Network customer.

    Charlie Ergen

    CEO

    DISH Network
  • Not being a Dish Network subscriber, this would have zero effect on me, but it might be interesting to see the costs for each subsection of the package itemized on the monthly Bill.

    Something like:

    • Package A: 30.00
      • Network channels: 5.00
      • Viacom channels: 10.00
      • Company B's channels: 5.00
      • Company C's channels: 5.00
      • Company D's channels: 5.00

    Once consumers know how much they're spending for what, they might be able to make their preferences known better and spend accordingly.

    The cynic in me, however, s

  • Think about it folks... (Score:3, Informative)

    by thumbtack ( 445103 ) <thumbtack@@@juno...com> on Thursday March 11, 2004 @05:18PM (#8537025)
    As pointed out on the thread that informed Slashdotters about the takedown, Dish didn't have to give any break (as per customer agreement), but chose to, as a sign of good faith. 9 million+ subscribers, cost to Dish $9 million plus. In addition in the next bill (or if you don't receive a bill, in a seperate mailing) You will receive a PPV coupon for a free PPV movie. Cost $3.99 to every subscriber who was affected (that comes out to nearly $36 Million) Dish took a $45 milllion hit on this. The prices will not go up. Dish network is still cheaper than DirecTv, and the price increase is less that DirecTv had earlier this year, and a lot less than my cable company announced after being held up by the same company over ESPN.

    In addition VIACOM's action by dragging this to people on cable and every Viacom channel on every cable system and even on the competition was about as sleazy business practice I've ever seen. From what I understand both sides gave a little.

    In this whole scenario there were no winners,only losers, regardless of which side you were on.

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