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A Glimpse Into the World of Japanese Animation 200

Posted by michael from the no-tentacles dept.
Pixelgroove writes "CGNetworks sports a story by Justin Leach (Softimage Special Projects Division), who had a unique chance to work at Production I.G in Japan on Ghost in the Shell 2: Innocence and Kill Bill: Vol. 1. Prior to leaving Japan, he interviewed the Production I.G computer graphics animation team about their thoughts and perspectives on Japanese Animation (anime)."
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A Glimpse Into the World of Japanese Animation More

A Glimpse Into the World of Japanese Animation

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  • Innocence (Score:3, Informative)

    by Lord_Dweomer ( 648696 ) on Friday September 10, 2004 @01:48PM (#10215077) Homepage
    For those interested but not in the know, Ghost in the Shell 2: Innocence is now available in bad quality on everybodies favorite trackers. Hope they get the DVD rip sometime soon.

    • Jeesh, it's going to be in limited release in the U.S. on the 17th, why not just wait for it to hit theatres.

      • Re:Innocence (Score:3, Interesting)

        by jandrese ( 485 ) *
        Yep, and if you're really lucky it might even be playing at a theatre within 2 hours of your home/business.

        • Re:Innocence (Score:5, Funny)

          by Mysticalfruit ( 533341 ) on Friday September 10, 2004 @02:06PM (#10215273) Homepage Journal
          Wow!!! You own an aircraft capable of sustained supersonic flight?

          I'm jealous.

        • Re:Innocence (Score:4, Informative)

          by Golias ( 176380 ) on Friday September 10, 2004 @02:23PM (#10215445)
          Yep, and if you're really lucky it might even be playing at a theatre within 2 hours of your home/business.

          How the hell did that get modded up as insightful!?

          I live in the Midwest. Minnesota. Pure "fly-over land." There are two theaters in the Twin Cities that will be showing this movie on the 17th. Both are within a 20-minute drive from my suburban home. Did you even look at the listings?

          The only way you are two hours away from a theater that will be showing this is if you live way out in the sticks, or an urban center so congested that it takes two hours to get anywhere.

      • Re:Innocence (Score:4, Interesting)

        by MsGeek ( 162936 ) on Friday September 10, 2004 @03:40PM (#10216378) Homepage Journal
        It will be infinitely worth it to see this movie in theatres. I've said it before, I'll say it again: this is a movie that will thoroughly blow your mind. It actually improves on the original, in no uncertain terms.

        Seeing it on a computer screen or even in a home theatre isn't going to match seeing this on a huge screen.

        Go see this and cleanse yourself of the hideous sucking void that was the two Matrix sequels. This is the most impressive animated movie to come out of Japan since Royal Space Force: The Wings Of Honneamise. That includes the most recent Miyazaki movies. GITS2: Innocence is that freaking good.

    • Re:Innocence (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Jameth ( 664111 ) on Friday September 10, 2004 @02:01PM (#10215230)
      Honestly. They went out of their way to get it across fast, what, with the September 17th theatrical release date for the US being only six months or so behind Japan. Why do you have to be a cock and violate the copyright on it like that?
      • The DVD will be released about the same time in Japan. Hence there will be DVD rips in a few weeks.

        Its nice seeing the studio execs learning that its better (more profitable) to sell a product that consumers want when its hot instead of waiting two or three years and complaning about downloaders in the meantime.

      • Re:Innocence (Score:2, Insightful)

        by rd_syringe ( 793064 )
        Because "information wants to be free." Because "the MPAA is evil." Because going to a theater is an "obsolete business model."

        Insert your own piracy-apologist reason!
    • I loved the first, and own it. I certainly will not be downloading the second. I will be seeing it at the theatre... the first movie I've gone to (willingly... not dragged by the gf, as rare as that is) since Return of the King.
    • I've read some really iffy reviews of it. Generally they felt that the movie was visually gorgeous and had a few top-caliber action themes.

      But all the reviews also agreed that the movie was very dull and lifeless between the action scenes, with dehumanized and dreary characters spouting off impossibly deep and philosophical babble for the vast majority of the long running time. In other words- like the first GITS movie, multipled by several times. The director himself has cited his recent fascination wi

    • Re:Innocence (Score:4, Interesting)

      by SuperBanana ( 662181 ) on Friday September 10, 2004 @03:35PM (#10216316)
      Ghost in the Shell 2: Innocence is now available in bad quality on everybodies favorite trackers

      "bad quality" is a compliment; the group that did it was a manga group and it shows; they suck. I'd say 25% or more of the lines are untranslated. There are numerous mistakes. "notes" sometimes FILL the screen and are put above AND below simultaneously. The subs are not timed correctly so long sentences often flash away because they were not put up slightly before dialog actually starts. Togusa's name is mistranslated- how the fuck do you screw up that?

      Oh, and it's a cam, so the audio is atrocious and the video is so blurry it's almost hopeless. Dynamic range is also poor, which is pretty important considering the whole movie is set at night.

      The movie itself was a gross disappointment. I don't want to give anything away, but let's just say the plot will, towards the last 20 minutes, seem shockingly familiar. What a fucking ripoff. Togusa's even dumber than his usual self and partnered with Batou, something that seems highly unlikely given he was the Major's partner, and Togusa is a complete rookie. Meh.

    • Yes, because violating copyright is informative, except if it's violating GPL licensed copyrights. Great modding.

  • broadcast.com (Score:5, Insightful)

    by jacksonai ( 604950 ) <taladon@gmail.com> on Friday September 10, 2004 @01:49PM (#10215093) Homepage
    I still wanna know why yahoo yanked broadcast.com's huge array of movies. Lots of good anime in there. check archive.org if you dont believe me.
    • i'm going to go out on a limb and say it's because the copyright holders asked them to take the content down. i'd guess broadcast.com doesn't own any of that.

      i used to love the audiobooks that aren't there anymore, myself. what probably happened is that the copyright holders put them up for a while as "samples" and then stopped wanting to do that (e.g., they never intended it to be permanent or they weren't seeing the service turn into enough sales to make it worthwhile).

  • Front Page Material! (Score:1, Insightful)

    by FortKnox ( 169099 )
    Now this is what I call front page material.

    Any normal slashdot article would have about 50-100 comments by now. This one has 5 (4 of which are trolls).

    Anime should be in its own section, IMHO. Its only here because of Taco's love of it. I really don't consider it a 'nerdy' thing. Sure, lotsa geeks are anime fanboys, and some actually enjoy the plots and stuff in the movies, but it really doesn't fit in with technology and science in my opinion.

    So I say give it its own section so Taco can keep up
    • I really don't consider it a 'nerdy' thing.
      I take it you've never seen an anime convention?
    • how does politics [slashdot.org] fit in w/ technology and science any better?

      at any rate, society-as-a-whole's conception of being a nerd has anime mushed into it. it's not necessarily true, but stereotypes are stereotypes for a reason. they are (or at least were at some point) largely true.

    • Not a nerdy thing ? Ever seen Ghost in the Shell or Akira ? How about Avalon (Not really an animation but Oshii's work) or Metropolis ? They are nerd's dream. Not to mention that they are from Japan, the land of electronics and ... ELECTRONICS ! What's more geeky ?
    • Yeah, because anime has never predicted future technology.

      Oh wait, its been doing it for decades.

      The new Airforce jet can turn on a dime... MACROSS PLUS STYLE.

    • Re:Front Page Material! (Score:3, Informative)

      by Aralic ( 563142 )
      Just so you know the article is basically about the Japanese take on CG use. NOT about Anime. Just because it comes from a production house that does Anime doesn't mean the article is focused on Anime. You could at least RTFA before lambasting the poster for putting up a story that you find intersting.

      Unfortunately the story linked is light on intersting info (hardly worth posting IMO). But as a geek I am very intersted in CG & Animation - Anime or Western is all good to me. I say more stories on it

    • Re:Front Page Material! (Score:5, Interesting)

      by molo ( 94384 ) on Friday September 10, 2004 @02:43PM (#10215678) Journal
      What I don't get is why I'm seeing this article at all. I had disabled the Anime topic in my preferences, and it seemed to work. I havn't seen Anime stories in many many months.. but wtf, now this one shows up?

      Is this a bug in slashcode?

      -molo

  • Horrible interview!!! (Score:5, Informative)

    by erroneus ( 253617 ) on Friday September 10, 2004 @02:00PM (#10215216) Homepage
    I could have written then thing myself.

    His key influences are "from [my childhood] era"??? C'mon!!!! May the interviewer learn to dig deeper.

    I know it can be hard to get any information from a Japanese person. They depend so heavily on the assumption that you already know everything that you learn almost nothing. So you have to be a little more artful and sometimes much more exact when you ask a question, or series of questions. And since the interviewer was not Japanese or even asian, he could pull off a lot more by playing the role of the ignorant and rude gaijin and asking ever more direct questions often repeatedly.

    I hardly consider this to be a glimpse at all... not even a cursory blink. I didn't expect to hate that one so much.
  • I am so sorry, Michael-san, but I think that this interview is a load of crap. It may be about anime but as an interview and background about some decidedly good anime it just won't do. For instance: "This is a promiscuous story of a lonesome "ghost" of a man, who nevertheless seeks to retain humanity. Innocence... That's what life is." about Ghost in the shell:2. What the hell is a promiscuous story? One that screws around? What do you mean "that's what life is"? Life is not about being artificial and trying to retain humanity. This kind of pseudo-intellectualism really irritates me. It tells me nothing about the movie, its background or why it should be interesting. And this: "What are your goals for the future? My goal is to establish CG in a unique 'Production I.G' style, and introduce it to the world. Because of this, I like to learn about everything earnestly. I want to live and work with pride, respect people, treasure the nature and cherish my country." He definitely seems like a nice guy, respecting Nature and all that, but what does he want to do with CG? What's so unique about the style? Does he also want to learn about quantum mechanics earnestly then? Et cetera, et cetera. Vapid. Enough ranting, but please, let's have some more interesting stuff on slashdot, shall we?
    • If it's anything like Stand Alone Complex, it's using CG to make better animation that looks hand-drawn. CG in the US has a distinct look, totally different from hand drawn animation. In SAC, CG was used to create very smooth motion that would normally take a lot of frames, along with all the color changes that occur when an object moves around.

      The only other place I've seen this used is in Futurama, which seemed to have the same idea.
      • The only other place I've seen this used is in Futurama, which seemed to have the same idea.

        Or Disney's Atlantis, for example. I personally think this is currently a much better use of CG than creating "realistic" movies.

    • For instance: "This is a promiscuous story of a lonesome "ghost" of a man, who nevertheless seeks to retain humanity. Innocence... That's what life is." about Ghost in the shell:2. What the hell is a promiscuous story?

      from dictionary.com [reference.com]

      promiscuous adj.
      1. Having casual sexual relations frequently with different partners; indiscriminate in the choice of sexual partners.
      2. Lacking standards of selection; indiscriminate.
      3. Casual; random.
      4. Consisting of diverse, unrelated parts or individuals; confuse

  • Well GITS2 just started playing its second and last screening at the Toronto International Film Fest about the same time this article appeared on the /.'s page... And I'm stuck at work. Trying to wait a few more days!

  • Ok (Score:5, Insightful)

    by cubicledrone ( 681598 ) on Friday September 10, 2004 @02:08PM (#10215293)
    Is 2D animation dead?

    GREAT way to start an interview. "Hi, is your career worthless?"

    "Uh, no. There are over 400 animation studios in Japan. That's why we own your animation market too."

    "You don't need to learn how to draw to become a 3D creator, that's the biggest reason."

    Genius. Spectacular insight, and it neatly wraps up the 3D vs 2D hype comparison.

    Anime is doing to the animation market here exactly what import cars did to the automobile market in the 70s. Japanese studios are making enormous amounts of money in a market which has been abandoned by Disney, et al., because U.S. companies only believe "you get what you pay for" if they are setting the price. Disney just got through taking a giant shit on their own animation studios which had been drawing on some EIGHTY YEARS of expertise. These people had devoted their entire careers to their craft, but Disney just couldn't stop whining that they weren't getting a 40000% return on the sequel of the week.

    Anime is probably just about to pass the $5 billion mark annually, and manga is now at $100 million, and we're early in the third inning. The competition is over. Anime is the animation market.
    • Anime is probably just about to pass the $5 billion mark annually, and manga is now at $100 million, and we're early in the third inning. The competition is over. Anime is the animation market.

      This means we will start to see more and more conglomerates with international anime studios, eventually squeezing out the thriving unlicensed fansub community. Even though much of the overseas anime will probably never be relevant enough to distribute to most of the U.S. market, there will still be no way to legall
      • So what? There's never been any legality to fansubbing anyway. It's always been a copyright violation. Just because anime is popular enough not to ignore those violations now doesn't change the fact it was always a crime :)

        The fansub community (i.e. buying tapes for the cost of tapes) was a nessecity because of the unavailability of anime. Personally, I'd much rather give the $300 (Cdn) to Animego for the KOR DVD set than having to give $120 to Arctic Animation for a set of 12nth generation VHS tapes o

    • Mod Parent UP (Score:5, Interesting)

      by May Kasahara ( 606310 ) on Friday September 10, 2004 @02:39PM (#10215627) Journal
      IAA2DA (I Am A 2D Animator)-- and you're absolutely right, on all counts. One of the big reasons anime is popular right now is because it's INEXPENSIVE-- both to produce and to aquire the rights to. Even the two top-paying houses in Japan (Ghibli and Production I.G.) don't have budgets as high as Disney did in its mid-90s heyday. I could go on about Disney and their current (notoriously bad) management, but that's another discussion... [savedisney.com]

      I recently read an interesting quote by animation historian Michael Barrier, in his recent interview with John K. (Ren and Stimpy): "It's one of animation's curses that so many people insist that there is only one way to make a cartoon-- the Disney-feature way, the Clampett way, the UPA way, or whatever-- when in fact the medium's resources are so large." Of course, he wasn't talking about anime when he said this, but he might as well have been.

      I like good anime and manga a helluva lot, sure, but I also like good American and European animation. Just as I like both 2D and 3D work, as long as it's done well. All have their merits-- unfortunatly, a lot of anime's boosters can't get that simple fact through their thick skulls -_-;


  • I could understand the initial charm of Anime, back in the '80s. I remember when Akira first came out in the cinema and caused quite a stir with its futuristic, Blade Runner Neo-Tokyo setting, engrossing storyline and revolutionary computer graphics mixed in traditional cell animation. I could see then why Anime and Manga were popular - they were fresh and interesting and the Japanese perspective, the different cultural traditions, made for cartoons which could really surprise you, or make you laugh, think

    • Re:Some thoughts on the cartoons (Score:5, Insightful)

      by PitaBred ( 632671 ) <<gro.sndnyd.derbatip> <ta> <todhsals>> on Friday September 10, 2004 @02:36PM (#10215584) Homepage
      But those aren't really animations ;) They're just comics. Different medium.
      That said, I still enjoy many American animations, eg PowerPuff Girls (go ahead and laugh), Samurai Jack and the like. Iron Giant was a great movie, also American in origin. But they are fewer and further between than good anime.
      Americans in general still treat animation as childish entertainment, so the only animation that you get with engrossing plots tends to be imported. Hell, a lot of imported anime has better plots than most recent live-action American movies, IMHO.
    • OK, I didn't read the FA, but I like your post.

      What I don't like is the fact that there is this huge genre blanket called "Anime". Watch DragonballZ, then Grave of the Fireflies, then Evangelion, then some hardcore hentai. These films are all *completely* different, yet they are all considered "anime". Its like creating a single genre called "English-speaking live-action film". And different genres appeal to different people.

      I wish that anime would simply be completely accepted as a film medium, in wh
    • I dont know about the whole Western Cartoon culture. I have been watching "Anime" since I was 4 when my Koren babysitter used to sit me down in front of Gatchaman and other long forgotten series of the late 70's. I would tend to agree that anime itself is not Slashdot material, however, as geek culture it is probably the "art" of the culture. There is quite a lot of crap anime out there and there are some films I would put on level with fine art. What cartoons from North America would you recommend?

    • Re:Some thoughts on the cartoons (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Golias ( 176380 ) on Friday September 10, 2004 @02:54PM (#10215806)
      One of the reasons for all the "bandwagon jumping" is because Anime has actually gotten better... a lot better... over the last ten years or so.

      Last Exile is pretty much what the Star Wars prequels could have been if Lucas still had any creative energy. The vanship time-trial from that show makes the Episode I "pod race" look, well, even more boring than it looked in the first place.

      Perfect Blue contained one particular scene which director Darrin Aronofsky found so compelling, that he purchased the remake rights to the entire film just so he could steal that one 20-second scene and reshoot it with Jenifer Connoly in "Requiem for a Dream."

      The light, pathos-driven humor of Azumanga Diaoh is resonating with teens and college kids today in almost the exact same way that Peanuts caught on with teens and young adults of the 60s.

      Cowboy Bebop was arguably the very best science fiction TV series of the 90s, a decade that was positively stuffed with science fiction television shows.

      I could go on and on.

      Even the ways they sometimes cut corners to make the relatively cheaper TV shows (vs. the big-budget films) can sometimes creatively turn a negative into a virtue. For example, the still-image pans which you mentioned (which I also find annoying sometimes) actually enhanced the mood for "Noir" and gave the series a strong Sergio Leone type of feel.

      More often than not, a still image in anime is used to serve two purposes. One is to reduce "cell count." The other is to emphasize the emotional drama of a particular moment. It looks jarring if you are not used to seeing it, but then so did the slow-motion fighting in "Kung Fu" when audiences first saw that show back in the 70s. Now we see variable-speed fight scenes all the time without even thinking about it.

      Anime has a cinematic language of its own. Just like you have to watch several Felini or Bergman films before you can just enjoy the story without being partly distracted by the non-Hollywood cinematic choices.
      • a lot better... over the last ten years or so.

        Hmm, 10 years back is just when Evangelion was airing...

        The vanship time-trial from that show makes the Episode I "pod race" look, well, even more boring than it looked in the first place.

        Actually, both were equally boring- from the perspective of the fictional spectators in the stands.

        Who would want to buy tickets for a race where you can't see any of the course except the finish line? No fun to sit there listening to an announcer TELL you where the cars
        • Hmm, 10 years back is just when Evangelion was airing...

          Right. And Evangelion, while an interesting step forward from what had come before, pales in comparison to Haibane Renmei, Kino's Journey, or Serial Experiments Lain in terms of depth of story & underlying philosophy, and can't possibly hold a candle to shows like Wolf's Rain, Cowboy Bebop, or FLCL in terms of production values.

          Evangelion was an over-rated Fighting Robot drama with an under-rated and delightfully oddball ending, which the direc
          • Evangelion was an over-rated Fighting Robot drama

            People who think that generally hadn't really seen Fighting Robots shows before.

            The whole point of Evangelion was to take a goofy genre and treat it seriously. (Compare with Watchmen and superheros)

            Wolf's Rain, Cowboy Bebop, or FLCL in terms of production values.

            Of course not. Evangelion's budget was notoriously low. No other anime has achieved 100 straight seconds on a single stationary frame.

            Several minutes of three guys standing still,

            WAITING
            • The scene you refer to was homage to John Woo's HK films, in which Chow Yun Fat would often "stand and deliver" while bullets fly everywhere.

              There was a similar scene at the end of Unforgiven, when Clint Eastwood mowed down a room full of armed men.

              As silly as it seems, the truth is that untrained fighters (such as bottom-of-the-barrel mafia goons) will often empty entire clips of pistols or automatic rifles in a point-blank gunfight and never hit a thing. A live gunfight is not like a Quake deathmatch,
              • There was a similar scene at the end of Unforgiven, when Clint Eastwood mowed down a room full of armed men.

                False. No scene in Unforgiven was similar to a Noir battle.

                In Unforgiven's climatic massacre, Eastwood attacked a roomful of men by surprise, opening fire before they even knew he was there. And they weren't all armed; none of them had guns in hand- some didn't even have weapons on their person. He got off 6-8 shots before the victims even started to retaliate. Furthermore, the victims were hud
                • t. Statistically, average Quake players land fewer than 1 shot out of five. Good players get 1/3. Nobody hits more than misses. (Unless they were intentionally trying for a high accuracy score, by only firing when the target is certain to be hit. But that will lead to worse overall results)

                  Oh, how I would love to play Quake against you and your friends.

                  But I can't recall any anime to use a realistic conception of gunfighting.

                  Again, realism was not the goal with Noir. In fact, they were very careful t

    • Re:Some thoughts on the cartoons (Score:4, Insightful)

      by Maestro4k ( 707634 ) on Friday September 10, 2004 @02:58PM (#10215857) Journal
      • But they've only grown in popularity and I find it surprising that so many slashdotters seemed to have jumped on the bandwagon. There was an odd dichotomy the other day with a story article about outsourcing alongside one about a new anime which made me uneasy, and I tried to reason out why. Do you guys not realise that there are fantastic American cartoons out there, that you could spend your money on as well?

      Who said we didn't? There are American animated movies I buy as well as Anime. I have nearly all the Disney movies up through the Lion King, I have Shrek and Ice Age. There's a few more I'm forgetting. I also have every single one of the Disney limited edition tins they've released so far. Just because a person likes Anime doesn't mean they instantly hate all American animation. There is a lot of crap out there though, in Anime as well, and people who feel strongly about animation are going to bash what they feel is crappy.

      • The thing that worries me is that a lot of kids cartoons are imported direct from Japan. And they're the future consumers so things will only get worse. They've got pretty shoddy animation, panning across one cell for example, but because they are the anime style, they're popular. It's the mindless following of a particular style that gets to me, and I see it a lot in the anime fans on Slashdot. *Anything* anime is news. How often do you see any other style of animation being publicised on the main page?

      I don't think it's just the anime style that makes most of the imported series popular with kids. All of them have a continous story line in a well defined universe. There's very very few American cartoons that do this. I think it's more a matter of kids are sick of the mindless, plotless, storyless stuf the US studios have been feeding them. There's only so many times you can watch the Road Runner win against Wile Coyote before you're tired of it. Even Cartoon Network's original series are mostly in the mindless entertainment category and they're the only ones really trying to push the envelope in the US. Animation quality also is far less important here than you imply. If the story is good and enjoyable people will watch it and enjoy it. Animation quality is also subjective, I fail to see much, if any, difference between the animation quality in Pokemon, Yu-Gi-Oh, Dragon Ball Z and other popular (with kids) Anime titles and their competing US titles. Face it, animation produced for a 30 minute time slot on TV is not going to have the budgetfor super-duper animation with extremely high in-between rates on the cells.

      • How is a slashbot mindlessly buying japanese anime regardless of the quality different from a CEO of a large company mindlessly outsourcing to India regardless of the quality? They're both going offshore without looking at other alternatives, because it's suddenly fashionable. But on slashdot, anime cheerleading (zealotry is too strong a word) is good, but outsourcing is hideously evil. There's a bit of hypocrisy going on here, in my opinion.

      What you're trying to compare there is apples and kiwi fruit. I'm sure you'll try to argue that buying Japanese Anime takes money from the pockets of US companies but that's not a good argument either. The market for Anime & Manga in the US has lead to a huge influx of income for those US companies who license and sub/dub it for an American audience. Look at ADV, they've gotten huge and put out an enormous amount of Anime and Manga each year. Look at Tokyopop, they were practically a pariah in the Manga community for some shenanigans they pulled several years back. With their 100% Authentic Manga move (and they started it as far as I can tell) they've grown quite a bit and put out a lot of translated Mangas each month. Look at Viz, they were doing OK before but their low episode count (at the same price as competiters with more episodes a volume) kept their business from growing quickly. Now with Pokemon, Shonen Jump and translat

    • people are mindlessly jumping on the anime bandwagon because outsourcing doesnt concern them unless it's in their own field. Not many people here are animators, and thus don't give a crap if it's outsourced. And then they go ahead and bash all American animation for being corporate and evil (Disney, Dreamworks, etc).

      And here's a shameless plug - Check out my animation [davidbokser.com]!! Oh... and hire me.

    • Uh, how many widely distributed American animations have you seen since the 1970s that had any of the following components?

      - Expletives in the dialog

      - Gay or lesbian characters

      - Anything about sex, religion or politics

      - Graphic violence (w/blood, etc.)

      - Had an MPAA rating higher than PG

      - Were neither comedies nor musicals


      American animations are guaranteed not to offend, targeted for kids. If you have some counterexamples, please tell us.

    • Re:Some thoughts on the cartoons (Score:4, Funny)

      by mekkab ( 133181 ) on Friday September 10, 2004 @04:43PM (#10216980) Homepage Journal
      This is the best troll I have ever seen on Slashdot. As in, "wow, this is the product of a frighteningly advanced mind!" Sir, I salute you. This is fantastic work.

    • But they've only grown in popularity and I find it surprising that so many slashdotters seemed to have jumped on the bandwagon. There was an odd dichotomy the other day with a story article about outsourcing alongside one about a new anime which made me uneasy, and I tried to reason out why. Do you guys not realise that there are fantastic American cartoons out there, that you could spend your money on as well?

      Well, frankly, no.

      The American animation I've seen is obnoxious. It is 'poorly' drawn. It d

    • It's my observation that for every good piece of anime, there are atleast 10 pieces that are utter dreck. But Japan produces SO much anime that there is no shortage of good anime to watch as long as you're patient enough to sort through it all (which I'm not, but each to their own). However, all the anime fanboys out there that seem to think that because it came from Japan, it must be good. They just need to take a step back, and realize that anime is much like American TV and Hollywood in some aspects -

    • I could see then why Anime and Manga were popular - they were fresh and interesting and the Japanese perspective ... There was an odd dichotomy the other day with a story article about outsourcing alongside one about a new anime which made me uneasy, and I tried to reason out why. Do you guys not realise that there are fantastic American cartoons out there, that you could spend your money on as well?

      And as alternatives you give Penny-Arcade and User Friendly. Are you a troll? Given that you also compare bu

    • Complaining about 'outsourcing' to Japan is kind of pointless, they have an independant animation industry that caters to its own market and isn't trying to make American-style animation. The real outsourcing is being done to Korea, where they work on 'Japanese' and 'American' productions. To use an car analogy, you shouldn't be worried about Toyota selling in the states, you should be worried about Ford building factories in Mexico.

      Okay, I think I should let you in on an open secret of the animation ind

  • Japanese vs Western (Score:5, Interesting)

    by nboscia ( 91058 ) * on Friday September 10, 2004 @02:16PM (#10215368)
    I am very thankful for such a wonderful cultural export from Japan. The article discussions Western animation and how the interviewees feel about it. While we (Americans) produce popular, and beautifully animated, CG work, I do not think it even compares to Japanese anime (either hand-drawn or CG).

    I watch American animated movies by Pixar, Dreamworks, and the like, when I need to watch something light and uplifting. Afterwords I think to myself "Okay, that was fun", then never think about the movie again. There aren't many movies geered towards adult audiences. With Japanese anime, I'm touched at a deeper level and often left amazed at the storylines. Of course, I'm not talking about the comedy or under 13 series. I still think about series that I've watched years ago, trying to figure out the meaning behind them. Even movies/series coming out now in America from Japan have plots that I believe only the Japanese are capable of creating. After watching a series, I continue to think about its meaning and am left with a wonderful satisfying feeling. That's missing from the American movies (and definately not even close with any cartoon series).

    It is the cultural aspect of anime that makes it so appealing, and I'll continue to go purchase anime DVD's, which is now far larger than my American collection.

    • Re:Japanese vs Western - uniqueness (Score:1, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward
      Everyone is so enthralled with japanese culture and anime. Frankly, it's the same other way around.

      Sounds like a troll don't it.

      As Americans, you're accustomed to what western animaion can present to you, famliar plot lines, personalities, endings, etc. This is because this is American culture. The people creating it, have been raised in American culture. It's a famliarity we're used to, some of us are sick of it.

      Ergo, why Japanese animation is so appealing. It's a different culture. Nothing's fami

  • Being Japanese? (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Racter ( 804902 ) on Friday September 10, 2004 @02:17PM (#10215382)
    Justin Leach: Is there anything you would like to change about CG in Japan?

    Mizutani san: I want to bring back our identity as being Japanese. It is hard to explain what it is to be "Japanese" to be exact, but since we are born in Japan, I think it is important for all Japanese CG creators to acknowledge their identity and add something that is uniquely Japanese to their creations.

    This is a very interesting response, especially considering how heavily the work of Production IG is identified with popular anime, when it's a very different animal. In essence, IG's work has been built from collecting style and method, spending years experimenting with computer-assisted cel and true 3D modeling animation. The work they produce might as well be considered experiments performed in the course of learning the art. They have graduated to distinguished player in their field.

    Mizutani's answer is a wee bit wrong due to a culturally interior viewpoint: Ghost in the Shell addresses universal themes from a very Japanese perspective, striking to an international audience and a source of great appeal. These movies need not be cute and brightly colored to prove their appeal. Production IG has no need to prove that they are Japanese. Perhaps Mizutani is more expressing the continuing evolution of the Japanese cultural identity in the face of internationalism?

    And yes, I know "anime" simply means "animation" in its original usage. Consider that shifting definition evidence of our own adaptation.

  • This is kind of off-topic, but I recently had a discussion with some friends of mine where I mentioned how much my kids like "The Iron Giant." Surprisingly, everyone piped up and expressed similar affection for the film. The discussion went from there to the decline of Disney under Eisner, and the decline of American animation in general. (I belive Pixar has done some amazing work, but there was disagreement over this.)

    Long story short, the consensus was reached that "The Iron Giant" was the last great han

    • ...the consensus was reached that "The Iron Giant" was the last great hand-animated film

      Dude, the Iron Giant was cel-rendered CGI.


      • I know some of it was CGI, but the characters and backgrounds were all hand-drawn. This is not an area that I have any expertise in, though, so if I am mistaken please tell me what you know.
    • I know this site is rife with Disney-hate, but Lilo and Stitch is an *excellent* movie which has at least as much hand-drawn animation as The Iron Giant (if not more. I seem to recall hearing that most of The Iron Giant was CGI made to look like hand-drawn, like that Sinbad movie that came out a few years ago and made a big deal about it.)

      Of course, the sequel and cartoon series kind of suck, but Lilo and Stitch is great. Also, Disney's recent The Emporer's New Groove is noteworthy as being full as all h

      • Oh, I loved L&S, and thought it was one of the best Disney movies in years. It wasn't forumlaic or have any of the cheezy elements that have plagued Disney for so long. However, I don't think it was quite up to the "greatness" level that "Iron Giant" fell into. And I agree with your assessment of New Groove.

        • Oh, I loved L&S, and thought it was one of the best Disney movies in years. It wasn't forumlaic or have any of the cheezy elements that have plagued Disney for so long.

          Interestingly, many of the animators for Lilo and Stitch were Hayao Miyazaki fans. Consider Nani going to 'Kiki's Coffee Hut' to look for a job (Kiki's Delivery Service), the raindrops scene (My Neighbour Totoro), etc...

  • Anime has made me a better person (Score:1, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Grave of the Fireflies brought the horrors of war home even more than Saving Private Ryan

    PlanetES showed a future both frightening and hopeful.

    Kimi Ga Nozomu Eien showed that happiness and sadness are not distinct states but often show up together.

    Full Moon wo Sagashite showed that friendship might end in tragedy, but also that friendship is the the only defense against tragedy that we have.

    There are others, but the fact that I can see another culture with all of its bizarre but beautiful aspects is
  • Watashi wa anime ga kirai desu. But then again, I'm not really a fan of Manga either. I just don't like the style of over emphasizing every emotion.

  • Random Thoughts on the Article (Score:5, Insightful)

    by IrresponsibleUseOfFr ( 779706 ) on Friday September 10, 2004 @02:33PM (#10215540) Homepage Journal

    Well, first of all, I'd like to point out that the article isn't really about Japanese animation. It is about what people's attitudes are that work on Japanese animation, and how they are they perceive themselves as being different from Western animation.

    One thing to note about Japanese animation itself is that they try very hard to maintain the traditional style while using new tools. Anybody that has watched anime the last couple years will note the marked improvement of visual quality (especially of TV shows) over those made 7 years ago. Interestingly, the CG style (works like Toy Story, Monsters Inc., Shrek) are not as popular in Japan as the are in America. People on the Production I.G. seem to blame that on character design issues (hard to create a look for characters that they feel is compelling).

    Something that I wish would be incorporated in American animation is a wish that more of American animation said something about us. About who we are as a people, and how we view ourselves in the world. In short, say something about our culture. Production I.G. animators say they wish Japanese animation better reflected Japan. I share that wish only with respect to American animation relating to America.

    What is interesting is how this matches up with outsourcing. Animation is a work of art. If we export animation to India or Korea, how do expect the animation to reflect our culture? (Of course, it might speak loads about our culture, but not in a good way). This isn't a unique thought, I was watching "The Otherside of Outsourcing" and they talked about Indians learning computer animation. They commentator noted how he thought that it was important that Indians did something about their own culture and not just pieces for other countries. Just something I thought I'd tie in.

    The last suggestion for Western animation is to stop the "soft-biggotry of low expectations" towards our kids. Most CG films (like Shrek) are good at making a story that is reasonably complex and the characters seem real, with real conflicts and are not cardboard cut-outs. But, our TV shows really need some work. It might be because they are usually totally episodic, which curtails character development. But, I really think we need to show characters with depth and real conflict (emotional and otherwise). If we don't, we really aren't helping their development. So, in a sense, we are raising them quite literally on kiddie porn.

    • Something that I wish would be incorporated in American animation is a wish that more of American animation said something about us.

      American animation says a lot about us. Every animated movie released in the US has fast-food tie-ins, video games tie-ins, actions figures, etc. You couldn't go anywhere with out seeing Shrek 2 merchandise this past summer.

      • Every animated movie released in the US has fast-food tie-ins, video games tie-ins, actions figures, etc.
        s/animated movie/movie capable of being sold to a younger audience/
        You can thank George Lucas for that, he made an absolute mint with the merchandising for Star Wars. Everyone else has been climbing on to the bandwagon ever since - even Lord of the Rings has been cropping up in strange places
        Lucas is still the worst however.
    • Something that I wish would be incorporated in American animation is a wish that more of American animation said something about us.

      We need more artists working in american animation. Currently, most (not all) american animation are products. The audience is carefully researched to elicit requirements (current trends, popular preferences) for the product, the film is designed to meet certain design specifications, and once the design is complete, the film is implemented (brute animation work). Then co

  • when my anime-induced seizures start. I can deal with the artwork. I can deal with the stories. What I can't deal with is the lack of fluidity in the motion of "anime"tion. It really looks like they cut corners and use two, maybe three frames per second so they can churn out movies like puppy mills. It hurts my eyes. Remember the Killer Japanese Seizure Robots? [seizurerobots.com]
  • If you live in the San Francisco Bay Area in California, there is an anime fair tomorrow and Sunday at the Japan Town center!

    More info JTAF.com [jtaf.com]
  • I thought Kill Bill didn't have any CGI work. Wasn't it a deliberate choice by Tarantino?
    • I thought Kill Bill didn't have any CGI work. Wasn't it a deliberate choice by Tarantino?

      IIRC, there was a brief moment where the live action snapped over to hand-drawn anime style action, then snapped back to live action. (Unless my old age is getting movies mixed up.) Pretty interested effect, I thought.

  • Anime is Deep (Score:3, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 10, 2004 @03:09PM (#10215991)
    What a lot of you flamers don't understand is the amazing plots in the anime films. It's not all about CG but here in the U.S. that's what Hollywood is good at so that's all they do.

    The style is unique and culturally revealing. For instance, I have never been to Japan but now I know that women there are attracted to large, tentacled creatures. Also, Japanese men's penises are often "pixelated".
  • ...does not appear to be for its artistic or stylistic values.

    a friend of mine, a director at AIC [anime-int.com] repeatedly laments: "We are soooooo cheap!".

    budgets for anime are very low, animation companies are often in dire financial situations. CG is a way to reduce production costs, not necessarily produce better quality animation or better overall product.
  • Mod me offtopic please.

    Just came from ghost in the shell inocence at the Toronto film festival. Pretty terrible, pretentious, slow, repetitive, and dull. Check out standalone complex if you want an interesting storyline or characters.

    I guess the only reason he made a movie was to prosthelitize. sigh...

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