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Musicians on Internet & Filesharing 330

reverseengineer writes "A Pew Internet & American Life survey asked (large PDF) 809 artists and 2,755 musicians, songwriters, and publishers about how they use the Internet, and whether it has been beneficial or detrimental to their success. Results (larger PDF) are quite interesting, with near 50-50 splits on a variety of questions involving fair use and filesharing. A quote from Pew's summary: 'Across the board, artists and musicians are more likely to say that the internet has made it possible for them to make more money from their art than they are to say it has made it harder to protect their work from piracy or unlawful use.' Here is the NY Times summary [ Free registration blah blah ] of the survey."
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Musicians on Internet & Filesharing

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  • by Aliencow ( 653119 ) on Monday December 06, 2004 @02:31PM (#11009681) Homepage Journal
    Pew File-Sharing Survey Gives a Voice to Artists
    By TOM ZELLER Jr.

    Published: December 6, 2004

    The battle over digital copyrights and illegal file sharing is often portrayed as a struggle between Internet scofflaws and greedy corporations. Online music junkies with no sense of the marketplace, the argument goes, want to download, copy and share copyrighted materials without restriction. The recording industry, on the other hand, wants to squeeze dollars - by lawsuit and legislation, if necessary - from its property.

    Advertisement

    The issue, of course, is far subtler than this, but one aspect of the caricature is dead on: the artists are nowhere to be found. A survey released yesterday by the Pew Internet and American Life Project, an arm of the Pew Research Center in Washington, aims to change that. The report, "Artists, Musicians and the Internet," combines and compares the opinions of three groups: the general public, those who identify themselves as artists of various stripes (including filmmakers, writers and digital artists) and a somewhat more self-selecting category of musicians.

    Most notably, it is the first large-scale snapshot of what the people who actually produce the goods that downloaders seek (and that the industry jealously guards) think about the Internet and file-sharing.

    Among the findings: artists are divided but on the whole not deeply concerned about online file-sharing. Only about half thought that sharing unauthorized copies of music and movies online should be illegal, for instance. And makers of file-sharing software like Kazaa and Grokster may be unnerved to learn that nearly two-thirds said such services should be held responsible for illegal file-swapping; only 15 percent held individual users responsible.

    The subset of 2,755 musicians, who were recruited for the survey through e-mail notices, announcements on Web sites and flyers distributed at musicians' conferences, had somewhat different views. Thirty-seven percent, for instance, said the file-sharing services and those who use them ought to share the blame for illegal trades. Only 17 percent singled out the online services themselves as the guilty parties.

    "This should solve the problem once and for all about whether anyone can say they speak for all artists," said Jenny Toomey, the executive director of the Future of Music Campaign, a nonprofit organization seeking to bring together the various factions in the copyright wars.

    Ms. Toomey, whose group helped draft part of the survey, believes that artists are usually underrepresented in the debates about the high-tech evolution of the industry.

    "These decisions need to be made with artists at the table," she said, adding, "it's not enough for both sides to reach out and get an artist who supports their position."

    Indeed, big-ticket acts like Metallica and Don Henley have famously denounced illegal file sharing. And the Recording Industry Association of America, which has filed thousands of lawsuits against individual file-sharers, often invokes musicians as prime movers in its crusade.

    "Breaking into the music business is no picnic," its Web site reads. "Piracy makes it tougher to survive and even tougher to break through."

    File-sharers, on the other hand, often point to high-profile performers like Moby and Chuck D who acknowledge that the online swap meet has provided them with valuable exposure.

    "I know for a fact that a lot of people first heard my music by downloading it from Napster or Kazaa," Moby wrote in his online journal last year. "And for this reason I'll always be glad that Napster and Kazaa have existed."

    Without questioning the convictions of artists who feel strongly one way or another, however, the Pew survey appears to show that the creative set is both mindful of the benefits the Internet promises and ambivalent about the abuses it facilitates.

    "The overall picture," said Lee Rainie, the director of the Pew Project, "is that the musician-ar
    • by pseudolus ( 790109 ) on Monday December 06, 2004 @02:37PM (#11009757)
      Hmmm... How ironic. I trust that the appropriate copyright permission has been sought for the above post. ;)
    • by ViolentGreen ( 704134 ) on Monday December 06, 2004 @03:16PM (#11010175)
      Here's a slightly different cnn [cnn.com] article:

      WASHINGTON (Reuters) -- Most musicians and artists say the Internet has helped them make more money from their work despite online file-trading services that allow users to copy songs and other material for free, according to a study released Sunday.

      Recording labels and movie studios have hired phalanxes of lawyers to pursue "peer to peer" networks like Kazaa, and have sued thousands of individuals who distribute copyrighted material through such networks.

      But most of the artists surveyed by the nonprofit Pew Internet and American Life Project said online file sharing did not concern them much.

      Artists were split on the merits of peer-to-peer networks, with 47 percent saying that they prevent artists from earning royalties for their work and another 43 percent saying they helped promote and distribute their material.

      But two-thirds of those surveyed said file sharing posed little threat to them, and less than one-third of those surveyed said file sharing was a major threat to creative industries.

      Only 3 percent said the Internet hurt their ability to protect their creative works.

      "What we hear from a wide spectrum of artists is that, despite the real challenges of protecting work online, the Internet has opened new ways for them to exercise their imaginations and sell their creations," said report author Mary Madden, a research specialist at the Pew Internet and American Life Project.

      The nonprofit group based its report on a survey of 809 self-identified artists in December 2003. The survey has a margin of error of 4 percentage points.
      • The nonprofit group based its report on a survey of 809 self-identified artists in December 2003. The survey has a margin of error of 4 percentage points.

        Is it just me or are these two things contradictory? In order to have a margin of error, you need a random sampling of a known population. I could self-identify myself as a sculptor. That wouldn't make it so.

  • Yes and no. (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Kenja ( 541830 ) on Monday December 06, 2004 @02:33PM (#11009707)
    Yes the internet is a great way to distribute music. However this does not mean its OK to download music without the creators permission. It is their choice where and how their creation is made available, not yours.
    • Re:Yes and no. (Score:5, Insightful)

      by NardofDoom ( 821951 ) on Monday December 06, 2004 @02:37PM (#11009754)
      I thought the problem was uploading music without the creator's permission.
      • "I thought the problem was uploading music without the creator's permission."

        True. But by downloading it you are encouraging the behaviour.

      • Actually, as far as copyright is concerned, the only real problem is "copying" without permission. Fair and personal/private use notwithstanding.

        Of course, with the internet it may seem to be highly ambiguous who is really considered to have copied a work. Is it the uploader? Or the downloader. It becomes disambiguous, however, if one considers that the copies of works in a person's shared folder(s) are ultimately just that, copies, and since they are being offered for availability to other people, no

    • Re:Yes and no. (Score:5, Insightful)

      by superpulpsicle ( 533373 ) on Monday December 06, 2004 @02:38PM (#11009774)
      Dude, it was never the artist's choice. How and who gets distributed and marketed was always the record company's choice. Can't tell you how many great artists I discovered thru iTunes alone.

      Record companies like to make it easy and market the same group of artists, and milk their talents. Look at Eminem, he's got a new album every freaking month. Do you think that was his choice? Kurt Cobain was stressed out as hell. The list goes on...

      • Re:Yes and no. (Score:5, Insightful)

        by Kenja ( 541830 ) on Monday December 06, 2004 @02:42PM (#11009815)
        "Dude, it was never the artist's choice. How and who gets distributed and marketed was always the record company's choice."

        It was their choice to sign over the copyright, and that is a choice that not all musicians make. For what its worth, in my option copyright should only be transferable on a contractual baises. In other words, the record companies should be working for the artists and not the other way around.

        • Re:Yes and no. (Score:2, Insightful)

          by sqrt(2) ( 786011 )
          The whole system is b0rked. If the record companies didn't control the distribution outlets, artists wouldn't have to sign, then they would be free to choose how their music is distributed.
        • Explain something to me... why is it copyrights currently last for what.. about 100 years after the creator's death, but patents lose their sole production status in about 10% of that time?

          Am I missing something? Arn't patents just as important to life as copyrights? They both protect creators and their creations... so... why the HUGE FUCKING GAP. Or am I just mis-informed as usual?
          • Re:Yes and no. (Score:4, Insightful)

            by freqres ( 638820 ) on Monday December 06, 2004 @03:14PM (#11010149)
            Explain something to me... why is it copyrights currently last for what.. about 100 years after the creator's death, but patents lose their sole production status in about 10% of that time?

            Because Disney doesn't have a patent on Mickey Mouse.
      • File sharing use just means that Recrds comanies where not able to adapt: they wanted their money and nothing but the whole money...

        They have ruled the custmers by distributing some poor songs, putting a lot of pressure ont the artists because there was no alternative!

        Now, this alternative exists: artists can be known through the quality of their works, and they are directly judged by the auditors. They can fund their work by making more concerts and tours, this is a better reward than selling many cds a

      • Re:Yes and no. (Score:3, Insightful)

        Can't tell you how many great artists I discovered thru iTunes alone.

        How true. I have been very pleased with about 70% of their weekly free downloads. The real benefit to me is that iTunes gives me the chance to easily listen to clips of the entire album. You could do this before through amazon.com and others but it was not as seamless.
    • Re:Yes and no. (Score:2, Insightful)

      by garcia ( 6573 ) *
      Yes the internet is a great way to distribute music. However this does not mean its OK to download music without the creators permission. It is their choice where and how their creation is made available, not yours.

      Technically it's not even their descision to make. It's up to the distributers as they own the rights.

      I just wish that more artists would realize the benefits of allowing the free distribution of their music.
      • Re:Yes and no. (Score:3, Interesting)

        by dubbreak ( 623656 )
        I just wish that more artists would realize the benefits of allowing the free distribution of their music.

        Here, here. As a muscian I fully agree and have been directing every other musician I know to creativecommons.org [creativecommons.org].

        If more people hear your music more people will buy your music, but that isn't understood by most musicians. The percentage of people that buy your music may be smaller, but that doesn't matter if you maximize the amount of people that hear your music your net will be larger.

        If
    • No doubt - but suppose even if I don't willingly release my music on the internet, I can get a cut of the file-sharing pie?

      http://www.eff.org/share/collective_lic_wp.php

      Sounds a little like radio.
  • by Sefert ( 723060 ) on Monday December 06, 2004 @02:33PM (#11009708)
    The artists that lose big are the big artists - but most artists are struggling. The big challenge for 98% of artists isn't combating theft, but rather getting their name and work known enough to be in demand. Personally, I believe that any artist looking to get recognized would be wise to put their work out on the peer-to-peer network, with links to their websites in the filename info. Unfortunately, people like the RIAA (who represent the other 2%) who are making this kind of thing difficult.
    • of course they are making it difficult for them. why? well if the RIAA was taken out of the picture, how would they get there money?

      there are several faces to this whole problem, the riaa wants to keep their monopoly on the music industry, the best way to do that: hamper arts doing it on there own, the only way to "make it big" is through them.
      • In addition to the other reply, no musician makes their money from CD sales. They make it by touring. Even small acts that produce and sell their own cd rarely recoup their costs on selling those CDs at shows. CD sales for an artist are 99% about getting their name/work out there so they can do more live shows. And when you get the RIAA involved it just gets worse, you in fact owe them the cost of producing your CD, so in addition to them keeping most of the royalties, you have to pay them what little you m
    • Yeah right. Nobody even bothers trading beginning bands on file-sharing networks. Even the most popular indie bands aren't much represented - look up Belle & Sebastian on suprnova. With pop music, essentially only the 2% of music that's RIAA-owned is getting traded. It makes sense that they'd be the 2% to get upset about it.

      Really due to the nature of bittorrent, there's no difficulty in non RIAA record-labels or artists making their albums freely available. krecs.com could post the bittorrents on

    • by gosand ( 234100 ) on Monday December 06, 2004 @04:00PM (#11010611)
      The artists that lose big are the big artists - but most artists are struggling. The big challenge for 98% of artists isn't combating theft, but rather getting their name and work known enough to be in demand. Personally, I believe that any artist looking to get recognized would be wise to put their work out on the peer-to-peer network, with links to their websites in the filename info. Unfortunately, people like the RIAA (who represent the other 2%) who are making this kind of thing difficult.

      Let's not forget that a lot of artists sign deals with RIAA-affiliated labels, only to have the label decide not to "push" them. The label can just sit on their work, and the artist has no recourse. They can't release it on their own because the label owns it. They can only sign a label deal if they sign over the rights. If the label then decides that you aren't the "in" sound, you are basically dead in the water. They control the content and the delivery system. Hopefully with things like satellite radio and the internet, this can change.

  • Title (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Kipsaysso ( 828105 ) on Monday December 06, 2004 @02:34PM (#11009709) Homepage Journal
    Its legality cannot be discussed as long as it is always refered to first and formost as ILLEGAL filesharing.
  • It's a fame thing (Score:5, Insightful)

    by bigtallmofo ( 695287 ) on Monday December 06, 2004 @02:34PM (#11009716)
    I think you can reasonably accurately predict (with some exceptions of course) where an artist falls on the "Internet Good" or "Internet Bad" debate based on how famous they are.

    Those that are already famous want to wring every cent out of the fame they've worked hard to get and therefore loathe the Internet's ease of file sharing.

    Those looking to become famous love the Internet's ease of file sharing because it enables more people to be more easily exposed to their music.
    • " I think you can reasonably accurately predict (with some exceptions of course)..."

      You're probably aproximately correct.

    • I can name 778 exceptions easily.

      http://www.archive.org/audio/etreelisting-browse. p hp [archive.org]

      Those that are already famous want to wring every cent out of the fame they've worked hard to get and therefore loathe the Internet's ease of file sharing.

      Nah, most of them care about maintaining status quo. Being that most music artists do nothing significant after their 30th birthday as far a new material goes, any rational artist over 30 that has a nice place to stay and can eat and do regular stuff should be p
    • by Orgazmus ( 761208 ) on Monday December 06, 2004 @02:59PM (#11010000)
      When you care more for the money then the music, you are not a real artist anymore.
    • Re:It's a fame thing (Score:4, Interesting)

      by MindStalker ( 22827 ) <mindstalker@gmai ... com minus distro> on Monday December 06, 2004 @03:20PM (#11010220) Journal
      Actually you are surprisingly wrong.

      According to PDF of study.

      Among self reported music "Success stories" (Definition 30 or more hours working on music and 80% income from music)
      45% said internet has big effect on "Made it possible to make more money from you music"
      45% said it had small effect same
      = 90% thought the internet helped them

      While the same group
      30% said it had big effect on "Made it harder to protect your music"
      25% said it had small effect on same.
      = 55% thought it made it harder to protect their music. This does not mean they nessesarly thought it lost them money.

      Statistics in other groups are slightly less in both catagories, meaning they didn't think it made much of an improvment or made it much harder.

      Thought 35% of Success stories did think file sharing was bad for artist, this is not very high but higher than all artist, of which 23% thought it was bad for them.

  • by k4_pacific ( 736911 ) <k4_pacific@yahoo . c om> on Monday December 06, 2004 @02:35PM (#11009718) Homepage Journal
    23% of respondents were not home.
    54% of respondents pretended like they were not home.
    20% of respondents were undecided.
    6% of respondents had no front door.

    There was a 3% margin of error.
  • by venicebeach ( 702856 ) on Monday December 06, 2004 @02:35PM (#11009720) Homepage Journal
    So this is a little bit about what the artists believe the effect of filesharing has been on them, but I'm sure it's hard for anyone to really know. This doesn't tell us too much about what the actual effect of filesharing is on the artist. So many factors change over time how could you attribute your increased/decreased success to any one factor confidently?

    • People always seem to think they're better/ know more than they actually do.

      Someone won the nobel prize in economics by showing that people don't always act in there own best interest.
  • BBC link (Score:5, Informative)

    by NetNifty ( 796376 ) on Monday December 06, 2004 @02:35PM (#11009721) Homepage
    BBC News Link. [bbc.co.uk]
  • Musicians Opinions (Score:4, Interesting)

    by teiresias ( 101481 ) on Monday December 06, 2004 @02:35PM (#11009727)
    I think this really underscores the issue and shows how the RIAA is not representative of the musicians thoughts and concerns.

    Most musicians, especially struggling musicians, enjoy using the Internet and File Sharing programs to share their music (See pdf [pewinternet.org]) . However, most feel that their work should be protected and they should get some sort of compensation from it (a perfectly justifable argument. Can't make much music if you're starving) (See pdf [pewinternet.org]).

    How are the above to concerns and attitudes towards file sharing in line with the RIAA's past, recent and future actions.

    Also, this was an anonymous survey so it'd be interesting to really see who fell where (pop stars vs local bands).
  • by yorkpaddy ( 830859 ) on Monday December 06, 2004 @02:36PM (#11009732)
    Why do musicians go for recording contracts anymore? It is obvious that the vast majority of them recieve no significant ongoing income from record sales. Most small bands seem to make more money touring. For them to have succesful tours, people need to hear their music, record labels don't help with this. Sure there are people who have made vast sums of money from the record industry, but most make very little or worse end up in debt. Its an expected value problem.
    • by Anonymous Coward
      Simple: for the promotion.

      Recording labels' job is to promote and get the music distributed.

      Now go turn on the radio. Find some music. Who's playing? Score one for the record labels.

      Many bands feel it's easier to let the big boys promote them while the band gets a big paycheck, rather than do all the dirty work themselves and possibly not reach as big an audience thereby getting a (much) smaller and less reliable paycheck.
    • by confusednoise ( 596236 ) on Monday December 06, 2004 @02:58PM (#11009979)
      Record companies give musicians much help -- there are so many things that are hard for an independent musician to do that a big company already has 900 lbs of existing gorilla weight to do.

      Like promotion. I can get on the phone to radio stations and maybe one by one convince them to give my music a listen. Maybe some of them will even play it on the air (once or twice). A big record company gives a push to their artists that can actually get something on the playlist.

      Or touring. Yeah, small bands can tour a lot and do all right. But what if, god forbid, they want to get *off* the road for a little while? Road life is hard - give a listen to the big established acts about the rigors of the road then imagine doing it without the fancy tour bus, without hotel rooms (sleeping on people's floors).

      And booking. Booking even a short tour (1 - 2 weeks) is hard. You need to call each club over and over to finally book the gig. A booking agent makes that so much easier.

      Bottom line is that it can be done without any of that support structure, but it's hard as hell which is why so many people are willing to sell their souls to big record labels in return for the exposure and some of the perks.

      • Radio promotion is so skewed towards the big labels. They have backdoor payola, fine. In a competitive market, alternative (not music type) stations would form to serve that niche market. That hasn't happened for a couple of reasons, media conglomerates and the crackdown on internet radio. I understand why record companies wouldn't want some internet radio station playing Britney Spears (makes it easy to pirate), but why do they care about artists they don't try to promote to traditional radio. What
    • by hackstraw ( 262471 ) * on Monday December 06, 2004 @03:03PM (#11010044)
      Why do musicians go for recording contracts anymore? It is obvious that the vast majority of them recieve no significant ongoing income from record sales.

      Shhhh. Most artists make better material when they have little money to spend and the only comfort in their lives are good drugs.

      Most small bands seem to make more money touring.

      I told you to be quiet!
    • Actually most small bands barely scrape by touring. It's really hard to make money on tour. It's hard to make money doing music period.

      A good book to read for those bands that want to go it alone is "Our Band Could Be Your Life: Scenes from the American Indie Underground, 1981-1991," by Michael Azerrad. While many of these bands were on labels (small indy ones though), all of them spent their life on the road touring and pushing their records. In certain ways, the world depicted in this book is long pa
    • As many people are learning these days, getting a recording contract is basically the same as getting a loan. But -- Courtney Love's ramblings notwithstanding -- a lot of musicians (like me and the others in my band [yumahouse.com]) are willing to enter these deals because:

      1) The "loan" buys you recording time, publicity, transportation, expenses, per diems, etc. Things that a starving band can rarely afford.

      2) The "loan" is repaid from CD sales. And that's the fair trade because we realize that chances are slim to no
  • The real question (Score:3, Insightful)

    by bonch ( 38532 ) on Monday December 06, 2004 @02:38PM (#11009777)
    The real question is if idealogue file-swappers will respect the wishes of those who DON'T want their material being swapped around on P2P networks.

    If you don't respect the wishes of those people, you violate the idea that this is for the artists. That includes Metallica, even if you hate Lars Ulrich. You can't pick and choose your moralities.

    I don't get why copyrights don't matter in P2P articles but they matter in "GPL source code theft" articles.
    • "I don't get why copyrights don't matter in P2P articles but they matter in "GPL source code theft" articles."

      Says who, you?

      What I don't get is why there's always posters like you who assume things like this.
    • Re:The real question (Score:3, Interesting)

      by Taladar ( 717494 )
      It is really simple, they matter in "GPL source code theft" articles because there they keep information free while in P2P-Discussion Copyrights keep information closed away. It isn't really a contradiction.
  • by Prophetic_Truth ( 822032 ) on Monday December 06, 2004 @02:39PM (#11009781)
    The concept of trying to poll certain musicians to reflect what all musicians as a whole think about the internet seems flawed. Considering how many genres music spans, how could you get an accurate reflection? How many punk bands made it into this poll?
  • by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 06, 2004 @02:39PM (#11009785)
    The other 50% couldn't manage to open the pdf file.
  • The greatest benefit for musicians is the consumer's ability to browse online and download one song at a time. Buying a $20 CD is an option when you're in high school with a summer job, after you've bought your computer and new clothes. It is not an option when you're paying for college, paying off your first new car, your wedding, your first home, your yearly vacations, etc.
  • by JavaRob ( 28971 ) on Monday December 06, 2004 @02:40PM (#11009791) Homepage Journal
    (initial comment: many thanks for flagging the large PDF documents clearly as such!)

    We get to hear quite a lot from the "industry" side of the music business; it's nice to get a little balance from those "other" people who are also involved in some way with the music business, the actual creators.

    I'm not surprised they're split over the issue, personally -- the future of music distribution is not at all a clearcut thing, and even the artists need someone, somewhere to be paying them for their work. Naturally, there are many more solutions that will work for the artists than there are solutions that will work for the industry that has developed purely to advertise and distribute their work through very limited, specific channels...
  • by yorkpaddy ( 830859 ) on Monday December 06, 2004 @02:41PM (#11009810)
    Movies are a different animal than music and it seems reasonable to protect them. Movies require huge investments by the studios compared to music. Movies also are the only product of actors. I can see recorded music serving primarily as an advertisement for musicians live shows. Movies aren't performed live, the movie is the only product (excluding merchandising). If people started sharing video recordings of plays, I would see no problem with that. With plays, the main product is still the performance in the theatre.
    • Music albums require investments too...

      as you have to pay for studios fees, for the cds, the box, for the publicity, the promotion tours, the hardware for the tour and you have to distribute it...

      The fact is : most musicians are broke...and can't live from their music.
      Mainly because the labels don't (for the big ones) or can't give (for the others) 'em much...

      You really have to struggle a lot when you want to distribute your music.

      The good thing about internet is that you can distribute your music and b
    • You can make a movie for free if you have a digital cam, well I guess electricity counts.

      This will definitly hurt the huge budget, over produced, crap fests that are all over the radio today, not that peers won't still be editing and producing each others work.

      I heard "The White Stripes" the other day and it took me 5 minutes to figure out that it was distortion not something going terrible terribly wrong.

      Musicians will have to go a little more technical if they want to rework their stuff, but you kno
    • Movies also are the only product of actors

      Actually I would put forth that is not strickly true. Popular actors do make money on movies to be sure, but they have something else of value - lifestyle!

      Think of how much money is made by the obsessive tabloid industry just trying to find out anything they can about actors and actresses. What I have wondered for a while is why actors do not capitalize on this - for instance if they are having a wedding let magazines big on the right to send in photographers.
    • by bludstone ( 103539 )
      Take a look at some of the student/indy films in the past two years. For a small sum of, say, a few thousand bucks, people are making short films that easily rivals anything hollywood is putting out, including special effects.

    • So there goes that's justification, sorry.
    • They are different, but there is no amount of difference that can say "Oh, it's copyright should be strictly enforced, and that one over there, no, not so much."

      It's kind of like saying it's murder to kill a nun, but maybe not much of a crime to kill a drug addict. They are both murder. I hate to use a fairly lame analogy like that, but it is a similar kind of reasoning. You are trying to rationalize, or perhaps justify, one behavior over another for peripheral reasons that fundamentally don't change th
  • Don Henley eh? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by hackstraw ( 262471 ) * on Monday December 06, 2004 @02:43PM (#11009834)
    Even though most of the "news" is not properly fact checked, and is blindly accepted as true, I have issue with the article that says:

    Indeed, big-ticket acts like Metallica and Don Henley have famously denounced illegal file sharing. And the Recording Industry Association of America, which has filed thousands of lawsuits against individual file-sharers, often invokes musicians as prime movers in its crusade.

    Metallica, yes, Don Henley, dunno.

    Metallica can continue to charge $75+ for half full concert venues (vs $35 and sold out, no pun intended).

    Don Henley on the other hand is no sympathizer for the RIAA.

    The Eagles have their own recording company and they are not RIAA members.

    Also, this url, http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0217-01.htm [commondreams.org], has more info straigh from Don Henley's mouth (pen, keyboard, whatever).

  • no big surprise (Score:3, Insightful)

    by gargonia ( 798684 ) on Monday December 06, 2004 @02:44PM (#11009840)
    Most musicians make their money from show attendance. They usually only make pennies on the dollar from album sales. Quite a few artists report that filesharing actually improves their bottom line! After all, more people listening increases the chance that more people will come to the show.

    Music "piracy" usually only hurts the suits at the recording companies. I have a hard time feeling too sorry for them. They're making their living by charging artists for advertising and distributing their work, and the internet makes that very low cost or free. The business model has changed, and the recording industry has not changed with it. A band can now make a very professional recording all on their own, advertise it, and distribute it for next to nothing. The suits just haven't realized it yet.

    • Re:no big surprise (Score:2, Insightful)

      by wronski ( 821189 )
      >>The suits just haven't realized it yet. Of course they have! Thats why they fight it every way they can. This is about the obsolecence of the business model, not piracy by the consumers.
    • The same can be said for the major TelCos and other companies dealing in information. The internet is changing everything and its about time these companies find a way to adapt to the new ways of doing business or be trampled by it.
  • by sconeu ( 64226 ) on Monday December 06, 2004 @02:46PM (#11009867) Homepage Journal
    Here is the NY Times summary [ Free registration blah blah ]

    Usually they require a DNA sample or your first-born child!
  • by rduke15 ( 721841 ) <rduke15.gmail@com> on Monday December 06, 2004 @02:48PM (#11009883)
    On the subjec (partly at least) this is definitely an interesting read for a point of view the public seldom gets to hear: Courtney Love does the math, By Courtney Love [salon.com]
  • too vague (Score:3, Interesting)

    by trb ( 8509 ) on Monday December 06, 2004 @02:51PM (#11009908)
    " ... how they use the internet, and whether it has been beneficial or detrimental to their success."

    Here, "use the internet" can mean anything from communicate with agents or people who book gigs or recording engineers or fellow musicians, to communicate with fans, to put up web sites with band info, sample tracks, etc. Most people wouldn't think of "having all my work traded on file sharing systems without my permission" as "how I use the internet." So a conclusion like "across the board, the internet helps artists make more money" is disingenuous. Note that I'm not saying that the net is good or bad for musicians, just that such a broad conclusion is dopey.

  • by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 06, 2004 @02:54PM (#11009937)
    The vast majority of these artists have signed over control of their IP to a second party - ones whose opinion of the Internet and filesharing are well-known by now. Talk is cheap and actions speak louder than words. The artists' opinions for a poll/survey are one thing, but that is not generally reflected in the contractual agreements they voluntarily execute.
  • by LordZardoz ( 155141 ) on Monday December 06, 2004 @02:55PM (#11009951)
    I suspect that over the long term, rather then having 1 megastar for every 1000 aspiring artists, you will have many different niche artists of middling fame, known to their fans though not beyond.

    Those that are currently struggling anyway really have nothing to lose from filesharing, and plenty to gain.

    But the mega star types will have an eroded fan base as the fans find music more directly in line with their personal tastes. And artists who peaked early will not be able to coast on their old glories for nearly as long. Songs that would have made them hit big will not sustain them as long as people will just buy one copy when they hear it the first time, and probably just grab copies after that. Or just rip their original to new mediums as the medium changes.

    END COMMUNICATION

    • Call me cynical but I forsee a new corporate driven internet structure, same as other conversions to the internet.
      When everybody is given the same voice, some good, most bad, it becomes problematic to wade through. You will see a rise in genre specific websites that wade through the garbage to give the fans the "best" of the music. Of course a whole payment structure will form, advertisement, and a pay for play structure like google now has. Pay extra the "Rocker search engine" will move you higher on th
    • Built in assumptions (Score:3, Interesting)

      by vhold ( 175219 )
      I'd like to believe that is what is going to happen, but there are a few important things to take into consideration.

      The wierdest, most difficult to address assumption is the idea that people don't currently like what they really like. I'm inferring that from your idea that people will go more 'more directly in line with their personal tastes.' It seems like a logical assumption from the standpoint that if you were given 5 choices before, once you've been given 50 that included those 5, you'd statistical
  • Taping TV (Score:2, Funny)

    by wrathcretin ( 693632 )
    "Nine out of ten artists agree that the practice of recording a movie or TV show on a VHS
    tape to watch at home at a later time should be deemed legal under the fair use provisions
    of copyright law."

    Wow. I didn't know Jack Valenti had an album out.
    • IT was my understanding that this was already legal under the provisions formerly known as Fair Use. But the MPAA and RIAA are dead set in removing that little tidbit completely from the Copyright laws.

      But I wonder if that also means that 9 out of 10 feel the same way about digital media sources, and from that, I wonder how many out of 10 own a Tivo, but wont admit it??

  • Garage Bands (Score:2, Insightful)

    by jdaytona ( 836971 )
    Same story, some like it some don't. If you were a part time musician working at Red Lobster throughout the week the internet has the posibility for world exposure. If you are a pop singer who doesn't write you own material and has a huge record deal you'll probably try your hardest to protect your assets. I have definitly bought some albums through iTunes I would've never heard of otherwise... also non-mainstream record label sites that offer free downloadable mp3's allow me to hear the music first which i
  • by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 06, 2004 @03:11PM (#11010114)
    I'm getting tired of all this "hurting the business" stuff. I live in Iceland where we have a national statistics institute run by the government that monitors record sales, movie attendance, rentals, sales etc.

    File sharing is huge in Iceland, about 10% of the nation use the largest P2P network every month, and there are several other domestic networks and the plethora of foreign networks. P2P started to hit it big 4 years ago.

    Record sales have been up 11% each year, we hold the world record in movie attendance, movie sales up 26% since last year and so on. You should also note that the average movie ticket costs $14, rentals are $8, CD's and DVD's are $30-45.

    This is not a strange coincidence to have this burst along with the growing of P2P networks. And don't give be crap about being an island in the north-Atlantic - movies are usually screened here before the "previews" in the US. Hell Sigurrós the world renowned Icelandic band even have their own P2P network!
  • by garglblaster ( 459708 ) on Monday December 06, 2004 @03:17PM (#11010184) Journal
    .. a cool place for selling music..

    I remember a time when there was an internet radio station called "Soma FM" available for free on the internet.
    (Slashdot even had some stories when they were forced to close down)

    They played a lot of _very_ interesting music I never heard before -
    and that you wouldn't get on your typical commercial radio station either for that matter.

    That was the time that I actually bought the highest number of CDs I ever did in my Life!!

    I remember more often than not, that I heard some _really_ amazing stuff there - and simply opened another tab on my browser, went to amazon and just ordered a bunch of CDs.

    - It's been some time now that I bought any CD at all - not because I 'd be downloading stuff or such
    rather because I just wouldn't know what to buy - the stuff on mainstream radio just isn't worth it..

    just my 2 cents

  • Hey, I sound kind of reasonable.. [taxi.com]

    but...wait for it....

    Bill Gates should ban the mp3?? [taxi.com]

    Feel free to make jokes about the hair. Thanks to this guy, I found out that I'll never make it in the business, as I am a 30-something musician in the midwest.

    Well, it was fun while it lasted.

    • I found out that I'll never make it in the business, as I am a 30-something musician in the midwest.

      My brother in law is in a band [iuma.com]. A buddy of mine who's an agent wanted to play some of their stuff to a friend in the recording industry. They industry guy's first question? "How old are they?". When he found out they were mid-30s, he said to forget it.

      All that the record companies want is pliable lookalike boybandz.
  • Here [wired.com].
  • by Bontux ( 832206 ) <umvalco3 AT cc DOT umanitoba DOT ca> on Monday December 06, 2004 @03:38PM (#11010392)
    If p2p application makers are held responsible for illegal file-swapping, should not gun makers be held responsible for the illegal use of their products?
    • "If p2p application makers are held responsible for illegal file-swapping, should not gun makers be held responsible for the illegal use of their products?"

      Generally, no. If you're not sure of the difference, ask yourselves these questions:

      1. What percentage of traffic on Kazaa is unauthorized pirated material? By comparison, what percentage of gun owners use their guns for illegal purposes?
      2. If all the unauthorized material were to instantly disappear from Kazaa tomorrow, would they still have a busin

There is no opinion so absurd that some philosopher will not express it. -- Marcus Tullius Cicero, "Ad familiares"

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