Extreme Christmas Lights In Orlando

tripmine writes "The Orlando Sentinel has a story about a geek who can't get enough Christmas light. 'This Christmas, tech-savvy people such as Hansen are increasingly building the biggest, most elaborate holiday lights in neighborhoods across Central Florida and throughout the country. They typically work in fields such as computer programming, Web development, engineering or audio and visual services and are armed with a technical knowledge that the average person lacks. They trade tips and stories on message boards and set up Web sites with step-by-step descriptions of how they installed their lights as well as pictures and videos of the finished product.'" Many cities have neighborhoods where the spectacle takes up blocks at a time, not just individual houses, too, as anyone who's strolled down Austin's 37th Street can attest. Links invited (in comments) to the best / worst light-spectacles you know of.

Good Thing It's Not in Boston

[imaginaryelf]

Or the police would've locked down the city already.

Re:Good Thing It's Not in Boston

[Anonymous Coward]

Lady: Hey, what are you doing!
Officer: We believe this may be an improvised explosive device so it's being removed using a controlled explosion.
Lady: BUT THAT'S MY HOUSE!!!
Officer: Ok you heard her boys, book her, she admitted to being the terrorist.

Re:Good Thing It's Not in Boston

[QRDeNameland]

Popele were just acting rashionally when they saw a st4range device on important imfrasturcture.

Yeah, I have a hard time keeping away from the eggnog, too.

Re:Good Thing It's Not in Boston

[19thNervousBreakdown]

rashionally

I doubt this was on purpose, but it is an outstanding word. I propose that it means, "perfectly rational, if you are crazy."

Re:

[NMerriam]

Thats an awesome definition, I think i'm going to start using this word, it goes great with truthiness.

Global warming

[Yusaku Godai]

What's the point to banning some incandescent light bulbs if this bullshit is allowed?

Re:

[orclevegam]

Who's talking about banning incandescent light bulbs? Several manufacturers are trying to phase them out, but unless there's something I missed it's an entirely voluntary thing.

Re:

[Yusaku Godai]

Just making a tongue in cheek reference to two or three stories down. And to be more precise, it's about banning the sale of certain types of bulbs.

Re:Global warming

[Deadstick]

unless there's something I missed

There is.

rj

Re:

[orclevegam]

After Yusaku commented I went back and read the article he mentioned. The title of the article is actually somewhat misleading though as it's not a ban on incandescent bulbs, but a ban on selling non-energy-efficient incandescent bulbs after 2012. Going back to look over the article again it looks like the title has been amended as well to insert a "(most)" into it.

Re:

[Colin Smith]

What's the point to banning some incandescent light bulbs if this bullshit is allowed?

Well DOH! Your politicians will have been seen to have done something so that you will vote for them again. Don't you get it? It's not about actual results, it's about the appearance of results.
 

Re:

[schwit1]

Allowed? In a truly free society everything is assumed to be allowed unless there's a good reason to outlaw it. A nanny state does the opposite.

What this has to do with global warming I'm not sure.

Re:Global warming QWZX

[Eternauta3k]

Canada.

Re:

[MightyYar]

I tagged it "auxiliarynuclear", which fans of Christmas Vacation may recognize.

Re:

[virgil_disgr4ce]

Hahahaha, I can totally appreciate that. Sad to see the tag didn't make it ;)

Re:Global warming

[One Childish N00b]

What's the point to banning some incandescent light bulbs if this bullshit is allowed?

Shut up. This has been a year to end all years. We've been bullied into accepting bullshit laws left, right and center, we've seen our countrymen lose their lives in a neverending bullshit war, and the holiday season is the one time of year when we get to let our hair down and have fun without petty moaning getting in the way.

Yes, it's garish, and yes it's a "waste of energy", but you know what? I feel like getting up and going to work every day just to fall into bed and do it all over again tomorrow is a waste of energy, too, and I look forward to the fun and silliness of the holiday season, and things like this add to the fun. Pretty much everything else fun has been legislated to death, if we start legislating Christmas then we might as well give up the fight altogether and become mindless automatons retiring to our alcoves for 8 hours 'recharge' in between 365 days of work.

Re:

[Deadstick]

you know what? I feel like getting up and going to work every day just to fall into bed and do it all over again tomorrow is a waste of energy, too

Just don't clean fish in your cube, OK?

rj

Re:Global warming

[orclevegam]

You know, the the celebration Jesus's birthday?

Interestingly enough there is no record of when Jesus was born. One of the original dates that early Christians believed was March 25th, which also corresponded with the date he was believed to have been crucified. Early Christians also did not celebrate the birth of Jesus because they believed saints didn't celebrate their births. The Christian church however has never been one to pass up an opportunity to subsume a competing religions holidays, and late December was a time when almost all cultures celebrated some kind of festival (Yule, Saturnalia, Sol Invictus, etc.). It made it much easier to convert people to Christianity if they got to keep most of their old holidays (see also Easter, corresponding to the Summer Solstice and many cultures fertility holidays [ever wonder about easter eggs?]).

Re:

[Yusaku Godai]

Thanks, you took the words right out of my mouth.

Re:Global warming

[lilomar]

Um, not to be pedantic, but Easter is near the Spring equinox, not the Summer solstice.

Re:Global warming

[orclevegam]

Um, not to be pedantic, but Easter is near the Spring equinox, not the Summer solstice.

I stand corrected. However, the point still remains that Easter was used to replace pre-existing pagan fertility holidays.

Re:Global warming

[prandal]

Easter retains its Pagan origins, being celebrated on the first Sunday following the first full moon following the vernal equinox.

Re:

[Wooky_linuxer]

Easter is a Jewish Holiday, and predates Christians by some centuries at the very least. In most languages the term for Easter derives from the Jewish term Pessach. One may still argue that the holiday was celebrated in that time of the year so to undermine pagan celebrations, but it is unlikely this was arranged by Christians.

Re:

[jackbird]

Actually, it makes Jan 1 the day Jesus was circumcised, and hence became a person according to the prevailing Jewish law of the time (a pragmatic way of dealing with high infant mortality rates when mourning rituals are fairly labor-intensive).

Re:

[Basehart]

"Interestingly enough there is no record of when Jesus was born."

Interestingly enough there isn't even a record of Jesus being born at all. Assuming his mother was a virgin I'm doubting a birth was even possible, but hey what do I know.

Re:

[jackpot777]

Jesus was more likely the bastard son of an unwed teen mommy

Silent night, holy night
All is calm, all is bright
Round yon Jamie Lynn Spears and child...

Naaaah. Doesn't have the same ring to it!!!

Re:

[hpebley3]

When the New Testament was being translated from Hebrew to Greek...

Huh?!? The New Testament was originally written in Greek. Any Hebrew version is a translation from Greek, not to Greek.

Re:

[Yusaku Godai]

My mistake, the mistranslation was actually from a prophesy in the OT.

Re:Global warming

[Rich0]

Uh, the New Testament wasn't authored in Hebrew - it was originally written in Greek, which was the common language of the day (owing to Alexandar the Great's March across most of Western Europe/Asia).

What you are probably getting confused over is the fact that Matthew quotes from Isaiah - which was written in Hebrew originally. Matthew translated it when he quoted it (since he was writing in Greek - not that he was the first to translate the Hebrew bible to Greek).

The word used in Isaiah is probably best translated as young maiden. In using it to refer to the virgin birth Matthew translates it to Greek as virgin to go along with the rest of his account. It is obviously a more recent phenomenon than Isaiah, but it dates back to the first century - it isn't like this was a mistranslation from the middle ages. Matthew's intention of communicating that Mary was a virgin is very clear from the lengthy account of the whole story.

Now, if you think Matthew was full of it I suppose that is something else, but this isn't some invention of modern translators or anything like that.

How about an analogy (since this is /.): The US Supreme Court issues a ruling in English based upon some treaty written in French. It turns out that the supreme court choose to use a less-common translation of a French phrase in the treaty as part of its ruling, and quotes it in English. In the USA the only binding law would be the Supreme Court's ruling, based on the alternate translation from French. The Supreme Court's ruling isn't really a translation-error per se since it is also an original creative work, and the Supreme Court's intention wasn't to just translate the treaty, but it chose to quote a part of it in English to further some larger purpose. You couldn't look at the ruling 100 years later and say that the Supreme Court didn't mean what they said because the translation of a line of French was debatable - the Supreme Court clearly meant what they said in the bulk of their ruling, and the translation was in support of the larger work. Now, you could choose to disagree with the Supreme Court, and that is neither here nor there.

So, while Isaiah is likely to have meant "young maiden" it doesn't really change the fact that Matthew was trying to communicate "virgin". And if you really are just interested in historicity then you'd probably tend to put more stock in a document written after Jesus's birth than 600 years before it when trying to figure out what happened.

Mod Parent Up (Informative)

[quizwedge]

good reply. Thanks for posting this. Wish I had mod points to mod you up.

Re:

[Simon Brooke]

Uh, the New Testament wasn't authored in Hebrew - it was originally written in Greek, which was the common language of the day (owing to Alexandar the Great's March across most of Western Europe/Asia).

Saul of Tarsus was (probably) a native Greek speaker. Iesu ben Yussuf - the guy Christians refer to as 'Jesus' - was well educated and probably spoke some Greek. Everyone else in the New Testament story spoke Aramaic [wikipedia.org], a language closely related to Arabic; and that is almost certainly the language that Matthe

Re:

[myth_of_sisyphus]

Paraphrasing Christopher Hitchens:

"What is more likely? That god intervened in a virgin birth, or that a Jewish trollop told a lie?"

Re:

[Yusaku Godai]

Whoa, lay off the eggnog yourself there pal.

Actually, I'm at work right now, you know, working (I'm a Jew...a lonely Jew...)

Also, I shut off all my gear before I leave the house, except for my file server since, you know, it's a server.

Put up all the lights you want (especially if they're LEDs), and nobody's going to stop you, not even me. So lay off the invective.

(P.S. My desktop has a 350W power supply and only one 22" LCD :P)

So 90's

[Cthefuture]

These type of flashy animated displays are like flashing HTML text and all the other tacky crap from 90's web design.

It can be done a lot more tastefully.

Re:So 90's

[kylben]

It can be done a lot more tastefully.

Yeah, they could get about a million red, green, and blue lights and string them up in a grid, with a computer to control each light individually instead of entire strands. Then they could port Firefox into the code that controls the lights and just show the damn Trans Siberian Orchestra house video on it.

Re:

[orclevegam]

So very very tempted right now.

Why port firefox?

[jd]

The Chaos Computer Club's Blinkenlights project lets you hook up games like Pong to hotel lighting systems. With the better resolution and greater refresh rate offered by christmas lights, it should be possible to get Doom or Quake to play quite nicely over the side of a mountain or something.

Re:

[karnal]

I was speaking with my wife about this - it seems that there are so many lights in use when people are doing this light control stuff at christmas that it doesn't "feel" like the lights always line up with the music.

800x600 = 480,000 lights - reasonable for a 4x3 display on the front of my house. Now to get the money together. Anyone have a clue as to what type of controller / interface you'd need for something like this? I know Nine Inch Nails had a "light curtain" that could be programmed to show video

Re:So 90's

[Belial6]

When I first read your comment, I though you were just one of those people that just like to complain. Then I saw the video, and had to completely agree with you. The display shows little to no creativity, and seem to be just a "I bought more lights" display. We used to have a house here in Santa Rosa, Ca that had a big display every year. It had a tenth of the lights, and was dramatically more impressive. It had spinning carousels, elves making toys, and various other animated displays. Buying more lights isn't impressive. Show me something I haven't seen before if you want to impress me.

Re:

[anethema]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=rmgf60CI_ks [youtube.com]

Lots of lights, and older video, but still the coolest lights I've ever seen.

All I can say is...

[Foofoobar]

Where's my BB Gun? I'm HOPING to put someones eye out.

Re:

[Foofoobar]

Hell all it would take it a bucket of water on an unprotected outlet. Not that I'm trying to give anyone ideas or anything... but that's one way to take them out. If I was his neighbor, I'd be turning on the sprinklers full blast.

Cease & desists and/or lawsuits in 3.. 2.. 1..

[Anonymous Coward]

FTFA:
Hansen's 25,000-light display is synchronized to five songs, which he broadcasts over an FM-radio frequency so passers-by can pick it up in their cars.

Radio broadcasts a/k/a "public performance" of likely-unlicensed music? So who's gonna get him first? The RIAA? The ASCAP? The FCC?

Takin' all bets!

Re:

[orclevegam]

Well, the FCC should have no claim, as most small transceivers aren't powerful enough to require FCC licensing. Now the RIAA (ASCAP?... maybe, but think that only applies to live performances) may have some sort of claim.

Rochester (MI) has some nice lights

[dpryan]

Rochester Michigan has a really nice light display setup on all of the stores on Main St. Here's a link [ledgenlighting.com] to a slideshow from the company that put them up. Not surprisingly, the lights cause gridlock for about a mile in each direction, but it's worth it.

Amazing dedication, big fat wallet?

[dada21]

Who has money for the energy bill from Christmas lights? Our household is very financially secure, but I'm not looking to spend thousands over the season to run the lights. My neighbor, who isn't really decked out as much as some, said his bill will be over $600 more this months for his lighting scheme. OUCH.

I'm sure the environmentalists will cry foul, and I understand that philosophy, but for me, the lights are putting more demand on electricity, which means I'll pay a higher bill myself.

The wife and I do like to see the more extravagant lighting setups out there, but we have noticed that some homes aren't running them 7 days a week. Wonder if its an electrical bill concern.

Re:

[Bastard of Subhumani]

My neighbor, who isn't really decked out as much as some, said his bill will be over $600 more this months for his lighting scheme.

I'm surprised you can fit that many bulbs on a trailer.

Story time kids

[Yusaku Godai]

Back when I was in high school, my family lived in southern Florida. Miami, specifically. This kind of crap is extremely prevalent around there, and I'm not sure exactly why. At any rate, one year our neighbor, as usual, had up several thousands of lights, along with the usual array of motorized reindeer, inflatable Santa Claus, and of course a big plastic glowing Jesus (what Jesus has to do with a pagan/capitalist holiday I'm not sure).

Anyways, a huge ugly array of crap that probably took a lot of work to put up--a perfect target for neighborhood hooligans looking to spoil peoples' hard work, right? Not so. The neighbor's display remained untouched. Meanwhile over at our house, we had simply arranged some lights in the shape of a peace sign over our garage door. Within two days all the lights had been torn down and stomped on. Ah, America...

Re:

[orclevegam]

Probably to make up for the complete lack of snow or really even cold weather. It's rather hard to get into the christmas spirit when it's 80 degrees outside, so people try to compensate by putting up ridiculously extravagant decorations.

Re:

[garett_spencley]

So what you're saying is ... even if I do manage to escape this blistering cold version of hell that is called "Canada" and move somewhere tropical with no snow that I'm not going to be able to get rid of all of the annoying holiday crap ? It's only going to be worse ?

Thanks for crushing my hopes and dreams. :(

Re:

[Deadstick]

Are you old enough to remember Anthony Abraham, a Chevy dealer, and Abe Aronovitz, a mayor of Miami? They lived across a street from each other in the Gables, and Jewish though they were, they competed every year for the most garish Christmas lights. I used to take people for airplane rides over there at night.

rj

Re:

[c6gunner]

Clearly you are living in an oppressive nation whose traditions and beliefs run contrary to your way of life. I suggest you quickly pack up your meagre belongings, and, in the middle of the night, climb the wall into West Berl...I mean, Canada!

Re:

[Yusaku Godai]

To be fair, it is kinda flamebait.

Awesome

[Reality Master 101]

Of course, it's all fun and games until the bus of epileptic kids drives by.

You think that's bad?

[jd]

If enough houses got together, they could make a great set of fake runway lights for aircraft.

Re:

[Deadstick]

Been done, by the Papuan Cargo Cult...

rj

Re:

[Brad1138]

Ya.... They could......

Re:

[B3ryllium]

Ah yes, good ol' BlinkenBus.

"If this bus is a-rockin' ... call the paramedics."

You too can do this

[YrWrstNtmr]

Computer controlled, fully programmable.
Lite-o-rama [lightorama.com]

If you're insane and anal enough to do it right. Some of the displays are pretty impressive [lightorama02.com], though. In an over the top, freaky, kind of way.

You'll never go broke understimating the taste

[crovira]

of the American public.

I watched part the video and it was like watching the eighteen wheeled log-hauler coming your way in front of you on the narrow mountain road suddenly jackknife and the tree trunks go up and over before coming down like a bunch of really BIG pick-up-sticks. (And you hope like Hell you jambed on the brakes fast enough!)

Armed with technical knowledge....

[cc1984_]

They typically work in fields such as computer programming, Web development, engineering or audio and visual services and are armed with a technical knowledge that the average person lacks

..and lack social skills and good taste which others are armed with.

Bizare Christmas Decorations

[doombringerltx]

Once I was with my family driving around looking at lights when we saw one house that had a huge nativity scene set up in their front yard. It had Mary, Joesph, the wise men, the whole nine yards. But it also had a huge fucking grim reaper behind the manager leaning over it all. I guess they were too lazy to take down the Halloween decorations all the way before setting up for Christmas, or they were just ape shit insane. Probably a little of each

Re:

[Black Art]

Now I know what I am going to do for next year.

Lights? Call me when you get a pair....

[PhreakOfTime]

Thats not creative at all. its just plain old boring.

Now, THIS [youtube.com] is original and creative. Id love to see the neighbors faces when this thing fires up on the front lawn! If some pinheads flashing lights annoy you, just pay them back with the wonderfully tuned sound of static discharge! Enjoy!

Ramen

[humankind]

I still prefer the more understated FSM Holiday Display [bsalert.com].

Re:

[matria]

Ah, Christmas dinner!

Merry Christmas, Hon'

[beadfulthings]

For pure unadulterated camp, you can't beat the display on the 700 block of 34th Street in Baltimore's neighborhood of Hampden. Each traditional row house is decorated to the owner's own taste and vision, and while they aren't particularly technical, they certainly do make a splash. They've been lighting up that block for so long that realtors feel it's mandatory to warn prospective home buyers that they'll have to light up, too. There's a pretty good sampling here [flickr.com].

Unfortuantely

[BlueParrot]

the energy required will soon surpass the rating of a standard household connection, but thankfully revolutionsing nuclear systems from Toshiba is promising to deliver lots of luminous joy for Christmas to come.

Re:

[Colin Smith]

Your're kidding, right. LEDs are going to make future christmases 10 times brighter for the same energy input.
 

Season?

[Dr. Photo]

"Around October, somebody was just walking around my neighborhood, and they told me they really liked our lights and that it really made the season for them," Hansen said. "If I am the one that triggers the season for somebody, then it really makes it worthwhile."

No, you misheard: you triggered the seizures!

I bet this guy drives a Prius and

[melted]

I bet this guy drives a Prius and talks about reducing his carbon footprint all the time, too. ;-)

Orlando?

[Hemogoblin]

It'd be more impressive if it wasn't 21C there. Try putting up all those lights in 3 feet of snow.

Some Canadian Examples Set To Music

[8127972]

This one is from Newmarket which is just north of Toronto Ontario:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pXk0wc5qXuo [youtube.com]

This one gained instant fame a year ago. Again it is a house located just north of Toronto:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4983931962566123785 [google.com]

Waste of energy and resources

[nurb432]

It is just xmas, no need for fancy lights. Thankfully it will be over in another day anyway.

are so doomed

[tero]

I don't think the human race will survive the coming global warming and after watching that video, I don't think we deserve to either.
The display gets full points for not having any taste though..

On th eheels of the earlier CFL story

[sm62704]

Are they using CFL [slashdot.org] Christmas lights? Oh sorry, don't want to offend the liberals, "holiday lights?"

Oh yeah, these are geeks. The CFL Christma... sorry, "holiday tree" lights are the wrong color temperature and they give the whiney geeks headaches. And you can't dim 'em. Can't have that, planet be damned.

Peace on earth goodwill to men, I wonder how much electricity these displays take? Vain, selfich rich kids. Lets just do away with Christmas altogether.

Sorry, I'm having a really bad day today. I'm trying fo

So, Tie a Yellow Ribbon around the Old Oak Tree?

[davidsyes]

Will IT be visible by Dawn? What will SHE have to say about it?

For those in the SF Bay Area...

[mpthompson]

... on Eucalyptus Avenue in San Carlos [google.com] the whole neighborhood gets involved with spectacular lighting displays. While not technically elaborate or geeky as the linked video, it is still quite a sight. Kids, young and old, certainly enjoy it walking up and down the street enjoying the hospitality of the home owners.

Of course, it's a sight that would make Al Gore cry, but he's an old Hum Bugger anyway.

Thanks for nothing, jerk...

[suss]

Light Pollution [wikipedia.org] International Dark-Sky Association [darksky.org] Starry Night Lights [starrynightlights.com]

Dallas Area

[robwmc]

There is a house in Frisco (just north of Dallas) that has been doing this for several years. They have a small site and it gives descriptions, pictures and video. You can see it here [trykoskichristmas.com].

We usually take our daughter to see it every year.

Re:

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

Blink

[Frosty Piss]

They typically work in fields such as ... Web development

Got to do something with all those unused "blink" tags...

Re:

[Reality Master 101]

You forgot about the fact that the year is totally wrong as well.

I like to say that we can tell how much God* cared about Jesus's date of birth by how much he divinely inspired the priests to get the date and year correct. :)

*Of course, I could also point out that it's yet more evidence of the non-existence of God, but that's another subject.

Happy winter solstice.

[Colin Smith]

And saturnalia is just a celebration of the winter solstice and the birth of the new year.
 

Re:

[orclevegam]

And saturnalia is just a celebration of the winter solstice and the birth of the new year.

I've alway preferred Yule to Saturnalia, although both at least aren't so pretentious as to think they're much more than an excuse to party with friends and family. I mean who else besides the Scandinavians are going to have a holiday that involves 12 "wild nights" of drinking, feasting, and general debauchery. Now that's the way to do a holiday!

Re:

[MightyYar]

When I saw the "Jesus" sign, I thought it was apropos because I was thinking, "Jesus, what a fucking tacky, ostentatious display." Very Christian. He is more full of... the holy spirit than thouist.

Re:

[orclevegam]

It always amazes me to see that the ones who least embody what the Christians claim to stand for are almost always the ones professing to be the most devout followers. I've met some very nice Christians who feel very strongly about their religion, but are still respectful of others, but sadly I've met many more who are practically militant about their particular flavor of Kool-Aid. I generally of course don't care what people happen to believe in so long as they don't break a few simple rules. First, I don'

Re:

[phoebusQ]

What's sad is that while you seem thoughtful and reasonable, many in this thread are actively hostile toward others just because of their religion, while at the same time accusing the religious of small-mindedness.
A digusting double-standard.

Re:

[orclevegam]

Unfortunately I think a lot of that stems from the particular breakout of users on this site. Out in general public most of those that have some non-traditional religious views (just about anything but Christian, Jewish, Muslim, or maybe even one of the eastern religions) are constantly reminded of the various religions opinions about virtually everything. Furthermore they often must censor themselves around certain individuals (such as extended family they still wish to remain on speaking terms with) and g

Re:

[MightyYar]

I always like to remind myself that the other "side" thinks that I'm going to hell (or equivalent). It's always fun to have a conversation with someone when they think that you are a condemned soul... sort of trips up the whole conversation between equals thing right from the start. That's why it's funny to see these religious summits where they have interfaith councils... they all think that the other is so completely wrong that they are condemned to suffer for eternity. Nice start.

Re:

[interstellar_donkey]

You're assuming he's talking about Jesus Christ. This is Florida. He could just as easily been referring to Jesus Martinez, the Cuban man whose cheap labor made stringing all those lights up a possibility.

Re:

[phoebusQ]

While pre-existing times of celebration were appropriated, this is common throughout culture and history, regardless of religion.
While saturnalia, etc., may be a pagan holiday, Christmas itself is very much about Christ. I find it strange that people are so eager to denigrate one particular religion's holidays...it's pretty small-minded and disgusting.

Re:

[SanityInAnarchy]

While saturnalia, etc., may be a pagan holiday, Christmas itself is very much about Christ.

Yeah, because Christ totally wants you to buy that electric train set for your child. Or maybe a laptop, or a skateboard, or a car.

And it's Christ who compells you to lie to your child about the existence of a fat, jolly man who flies around the world in a single night, to bring presents to everyone -- but hey, you believe in Christ, so why wouldn't you believe in Santa?

I get what you're trying to say -- that the s

Re:

[Jhon]

What I'm reading from your tone (please correct me if I'm wrong) is that Christians shouldn't celebrate the birth of their massiah because they don't know exactly when he was born? And they "appropriated" the celebration of others?

Christmas is a liturgy. It doesn't matter the exact day, what matters is the event. Most christians are aware of this. What you see as "taken over" earlier pagan traditions can easily, and more neutrally be charactized as "adopted".

It's another to cast it in a hundred thousan

Re:

[Pojut]

I think what the OP was trying to say was that the pagan religion of Yule was originally modified by Christians in an attempt to a. convert pagans over to christianity b. "gloss over" the pagan holiday in an attempt to prevent other people from discovering it, becomming curious, and partaking in it and c. recently has been perpetuated in an attempt to gain mass amounts of money from the general public.

This is actually true with most christian holidays. This is not bigotry against christianity, it's the tru

Re:

[Jhon]

This is not bigotry against christianity, it's the truth.

It was bigotry against christianity in his suggestion that christians who celebrate the birth of Jesus are ignorant. The OPs overall tone was bigoted. In the west, typically the birth of Jesus is celebrated on December 25h. In the east, it's typicall celebrated on January 6th. Again, the date doesn't matter, it's the event. Is it ignorant to celebrate ML King's birthday? I can tell you, he wasn't born on a magic day that makes it always fall o

Re:

[Pojut]

Insofar as the OP is concerned, yes, I will agree what he was saying could be considered bigotry.

Christians didn't 'steal' other cultures methods of celebration. Other cultures brought their methods of celebration as they converted and in many cases have been adopted by christians as a whole.

So...what you are saying is, is that "as a whole", christianity accepted the methods of celebration that other cultures used...those other cultures being the same ones that were accused of working in-tandem with the de

My neighbor does quite well

[grahamsz]

I captured this video [youtube.com] last night

Re:

[PhreakOfTime]

"I think you don't need to believe in God to admire Jesus work at that time. If he was in our time..."

How about if he was in any time... would you care to find me a historical reference from the years around 10BC-50AD that documents his existance? Other than 'the bible'.

Nice to see that you have thrown off the shackles of superstitio... uh religion. Next step is to question everything you think you believe, and find out if its basd on facts and true, or if its just something somebody told you, who told

Re:

[fbjon]

Garish display of lights? Oh my, I looked at the videos and there was a link in the beginning that tops the light display. You haven't seen garish until you've seen this hell-hole [christmaswonders.com]. (NSFEyes, and probably NSFBrowsers)

Incidentally, is that message on the door, "Jesus, the reason for the season", common? Not only is it a painful pun, it's wrong too.