Charlton Heston's Impact On Sci-Fi 531
An anonymous reader writes "As you're probably already aware, Charlton Heston passed away yesterday. Wired has a piece looking back at Heston's extremely notable work in the sci-fi genre, with roles in films like "Planet of the Apes" and "Soylent Green". 'Heston also roared out some of sci-fi's greatest and most memorable lines, bringing his macho swagger and over-the-top intensity to the screen in movies like 1973's food freak-out flick Soylent Green and the Planet of the Apes series. In a pivotal scene from 1968's Planet of the Apes (see clip), Heston's character, time-traveling astronaut George Taylor, utters the first words spoken by a human to the simian rulers of a bizarro future Earth: "Take your stinking paws off me, you damn dirty ape!'"
Yeah, Heston! (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Yeah, Heston! (Score:5, Informative)
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Re:Yeah, Heston! (Score:4, Funny)
If you are so Anti-Heston, you could at least explain why you are... such, you are Pro-Gun Control, or Anti-Biblical Stories, or something...
But, i'll assume that when you die, many people will spout off... "I am glad that anonymous fucking coward is dead"
Re:Yeah, Heston! (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Yeah, Heston! (Score:5, Insightful)
Maybe if you said something about judeochristianity, you'd have a point... No, wait, then it couldn't be "fundamentalist" anymore.
And yes, you are a troll, which is probably why you were modded as such.
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As for people trying to sell stuff, most of humanity does that every day. Create, show people you're creation, get
Let's not forget (Score:5, Funny)
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Re:Let's not forget (Score:5, Insightful)
You know, I won't dispute your right to distribute pamphlets printed on a hand-crank press using lead type, but nothing more recent.
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The idea of an automatic weapon goes back a long way. The Romans had the polybolos long before anyone have even though of gunpowder, let alone using it for propelling projectiles.
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Re:Let's not forget (Score:5, Funny)
RIP (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:RIP (Score:5, Interesting)
http://www.americanrhetoric.com/speeches/charltonhestonculturalwar.htm [americanrhetoric.com]
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"Don't be too proud of this f***ing technological terror you've constructed. The ability to blow the s*** out of a planet is insignificant next to the mother f***ing power of the Force, bitch. "
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Re:He was legend (Score:5, Interesting)
I think it depends on which aspects of each of those movies you're talking about. As far as the performance of the main character, I think Will Smith turned in a vastly superior performance than Heston (no slight on Heston - I doubt any of Will Smith's work (to date) will stand the test of time that Heston's has). There was no scarier moment in the Heston version that was anywhere near as scary as when Smith goes in the dark building to get his dog. Certainly the special effects of an abandoned New York were nowhere up to the Smith version. The bad guys in the Heston movie were far more effective, I thought, than in the Smith version, though. And both fall down rather badly on the ending, neither of which makes the title of the original story (I Am Legend) make any sense - even in the alternate ending for the Smith movie. I don't know why it's so hard for the filmmakers to understand the title, or why they need to change it, considering noone has yet to make a movie of that story WITH the original ending.
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Re:He was legend (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:He was legend (Score:5, Funny)
Sure
Re:He was legend (Score:4, Insightful)
Much better ending than the movie. And I still think it's appropriate for film. The viewer probably will start to sympathize with the intelligent vampires near the end, because of the compassionate woman and because they are an acceptable replacement for the human race.
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Psst... if you don't get it, watch Omega Man.
Oblig. (Score:5, Funny)
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In the "Planet of the Apes" remake (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:In the "Planet of the Apes" remake (Score:5, Insightful)
No, it wasn't. He wasn't giving an anti-gun speech at all, in that role. He was showing (as an ape) the fear and loathing of the intellect that could make the guns...
Heston spent many years pointing out that people who fear the gun are too chickenshit to admit that it's really other people they fear. His ape character was a really good, (classically Heston!) over the top indictment of the irrational habit of blaming the tool and/or the symbol, rather than the person who uses them in a way you dislike. It was brilliant, and the only irony to be found is in the mis-comprehension of what he chose do with it by so many people who saw it.
Re:In the "Planet of the Apes" remake (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm "pro-choice." If I want to own one, it should be my choice. (and my responsibility) Thus, freedom to chose. Are you saying you want to limit my freedom of choice?
And FWIW, when I go skeet shooting, you kind of need a gun for that. Somehow throwing flowers at the skeet just doesn't work as well. The weapon I chose, should be whichever I chose. Though I'll probably get modded flamebait on this post.
Re:In the "Planet of the Apes" remake (Score:4, Insightful)
Seriously--this is the failure of thought that leads to a lot of these silly laws. People--smart people, even--think that, if you take away permission, then somebody won't be able to do something bad.
You miss the point that if he's going to do something bad, he probably doesn't care about "permission."
This is why many of us thing the "gun control" laws are silly: they assume that the person bent on committing a violent crime gives a tinker's damn about "permission" to own a gun.
Guess what: he doesn't.
And, beyond that, are you saying that the way to handle somebody you believe is going to commit murder is to waggle your finger at him and say "no, please don't do that?" Seriously--take away a piece of paper? Are you kidding me?
Do something about it! If you have good reason, don't look into taking away his permission slip, look into taking away his freedom. He can't run people down if he's cooling his heels in a jail cell, and if you have (solid) reason to believe he's going to commit murder, he can be legally detained.
These are the twin failures of the "gun control" movement: belief that criminals care about the rules (hint: criminals, by definition, break rules), and belief that behaviour is controlled by objects, instead of people. Address the person--the criminal--not the tool.
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Re:Oblig. (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Oblig. (Score:4, Insightful)
Right.
Incidentally, he did write a film and directed three.
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Re:Oblig. (Score:5, Insightful)
When Alec Guinness died, we said that he's become more powerful than you can possibly imagine.
When Douglas Adams died, we said that he's no doubt spending a year dead for tax reasons.
When Arthur C. Clarke died, we said that he's probably been reincarnated as a large orbiting fetus.
When Gary Gygax died, we said that he's lost his last saving throw.
No, it's never too early, especially if the deceased would have appreciated the joke. When Terry Gilliam dies, you bet we're going to say: "Well you're dead now, so shut up." When Neal Stephenson dies, you bet we're going to comment about how the ending was a bit abrupt.
Re:Oblig (Score:5, Funny)
They'll probably say "NETCRAFT CONFIRMS IT."
Most famous quote. (Score:4, Funny)
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However it would be particularly poetic if he were to be buried holding that particular gun in his "cold, dead hands". (I can just imagine him guffawing at the idea.)
Re:Most famous quote. (Score:5, Insightful)
Heston saw no difference between campaign for personal freedom and the means to defend those freedoms.
I can just imagine him going up to Moses and saying "Well, what did you think? Did I do you justice?"
Re:Most famous quote. (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Most famous quote. (Score:4, Informative)
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Armed robbery, along with most other forms of violent crime, is down across the nation. That's not likely due to the ban in guns though, as criminals are going to step outside the ban anyway.
What has decreased are the number of fatal accidents in homes, and we've since had very few instances of some bozo kid picking up a gun and shooting people at school.
B
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In the 10 year period crime rates have actually gone down, not by much as gun crime was never at the pandemic levels as it is in the US. As long as any Australian can remember none of them have ever felt that guns were needed to solve problems.
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Prove it. Source for this?
I doubt you do, since guns aren't banned in Australia. Rules were tightened up considerably about 10 years ago (not "a year ago").
Most likely the little unsourced factoids that gun nuts copy and paste from each other without bothering to verify. When you do look into them, invariably they're vastly exaggerated or just made up.
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Anti-gun types actually believ
Re:Most famous quote. (Score:4, Insightful)
I guess you think that sounds pretty nutters doesn't it?
What if her response had been, "What are the odds I'll be able to retreive my gun, unlock it, load it, and successfully fend off a murderer/rapist?"
What percentage of people who have a gun are actually able to use it in these circumstances they imagine it will be so useful in? Any real statistics out there?
What if her response had been, "What if I had a gun, and it was stolen while I was out, and used to shoot a small child?" or "What if I had a gun, and one of those children you were so concerned about accidently shot the other one with it?"
Again, what percentage of people who have a gun are involved in accidental / misuse / etc?
In other words, what percentage of guns end up actually used to prevent a crime vs end up being used to commit one and/or are involved in accidental shootings?
What if the number involved in crimes / accidental shootings significantly exceeds the number that actually actively prevented crimes... ??
In any case, I recently had a conversation with a pro-gun man. It was very civil, so no over the top rhetoric. When asked what he would do if his teenage child ever got pissed off at him, and in a fit of incredibly poor judgement takes the gun and shoots you with it. Then realizing what he's done, turns it on himself.
His response was simply "I've that decide that won't happen to me." When followed up with a "What?" He explained that people decide to have those things happen to them, [when they choose ineffective parenting approaches, and fail to teach their children proper respect of guns], and that he had chosen not to have that happen to anyone in his family.
Pro-gun types actually beleive that guns have magical powers to imbue people with good judgment, so if guns are given to THEM, they will somehow magically be immune from ever 'misusing' it or using it 'accidentally'.
One thing that always strikes me as bizarre, stupid, whatever, is people like my neighbor with 3 huge guns. Specially states that he feels safer having them because he lives alone, but thinks that home security systems and dogs are ineffectual. Yet, a big gun in the closet... that will stop criminals from attacking him...
Don't get me wrong, i'm not anti-gun, myself. But lousy reasoning exists on both sides of the argument. And bottom line, the only questions I'm interested in:
Does having a gun actually make me safer? Or is it more likely to get me or someone I care about killed?
Am I more likely to prevent a crime with it, or is it more likely that it will enable / escalate one?
I don't know the answer to those questions.
I do know I hear daily about some gun being misused, or accidently fired, or used in a fit of passion... I don't often hear about people who were able to fend off murderer/rapists with their gun. Call it media bias if you want... but until I see a REAL credible study done... well... I have serious doubts that guns will make me safer. I firmly beleive, for my own family, that the odds of the kids having an accident with it, FAR exceed the odds we'll get our home invaded by a murderous/rapist. But that's just me.
Re:Most famous quote. (Score:5, Insightful)
That's why I keep a sword zip-tied to the bedstand behind my pillow.
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See, it's stuff like that which keeps me from owning a:
-swimming pool or hot tub
-swingset
-hammer
-electrical outlet
-car or truck
-anything made out of glass
-climbable tree
-pet
-knife
-rope
-paint or other chemical
-soldering iron
-aspirin or other OTC drugs
-5-gallon bucket
-charcoal grill
-washing machine or dryer
-large freezer
-baseballs or bats
-stairs
-powerf
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You know, I'm not going to refute much of what you said. It's true: Modern political discourse on such topics as gun control is rife with hyperbole and the statements of ignorance.
My personal experience has been quite the opposite. Pro-gun control people are, generally, less personally ex
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What a crock of shit. The murder rate from guns stands at around 200/yr out of 20 million, it did before the bans and it still does after the bans (10yrs ago btw). There has been a small drop in suicides by gun.
What people fail to realise is that Aussies were never really gun nuts to start with, owning a handgun has always been uncommon, carrying one has always been socially unacceptable.
Re:Most famous quote. (Score:5, Funny)
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Re:Most famous quote. (Score:5, Insightful)
When you look at his life in its entirety, it makes perfect sense. What it comes down to is that Charlton Heston became involved with the NRA for the same reason that he marched with Dr. Martin Luther King--to him, it was a civil rights issue.
You can debate the right and wrong of the American right to keep and bear arms until the cows come home, but like it or not, the men who founded our nation had certain beliefs about what constituted the natural rights of men. They wrote some of these rights into our Constitution: free speech, a free press, freedom of religion, the right to be secure from intrusive government searches, the right to a trial by a jury of your peers, the right to bear arms, and more. Heston was a man who believed in those rights, and was willing to lend his fame to various causes in support of them. That's really all there is to it.
So, feel free to think less of him for it (I'm sure that while he disagreed with what you had to say, he would have defended to the death your right to say it) but while you're doing so, also think about the notion that if you start to pick and choose what rights you think people ought to have, and try to redefine those rights out of existence, then someone else later will have an easier time of stripping the citizenry of the rights that YOU yourself hold dear. One need look no further than the current occupant of the white house to see such a process in action.
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Bite marks in the scenery (Score:5, Interesting)
Then again, you see him in the Orson Welles film "Touch of Evil" to see he could underplay it when he wanted to, he just chose not to. In honour of Chuck, I think The Omega Man is due a screening in my house this evening.
Not just sci-fi, but nerdy stuff (Score:5, Informative)
Never considered Planet a SciFi movie (Score:2)
Goodbye, Taylor (Score:2)
You were right. They ruined it. We've become the nation of Soylent Green.
Actors and activists (Score:3, Interesting)
I tend to ignore an actor's political statements, however (whether or not I agree with their sentiments). If I refused to watch any movie that included an actor that I'd seen make a fool out of him/herself, there'd be no point in my owning a DVD player - the pickings would be slim indeed.
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That's a very wise attitude. And it's that kind of attitude that makes it OK in my brain to watch Susan Sarandon get fondled in Rocky Horror Picture Show. :-)
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You need a *REASON* for that?
Hi! I'm Troy McClure! (Score:3)
I'm sorry but... (Score:2)
Is his hand cold? (Score:3, Funny)
MOSES? (Score:4, Funny)
RS
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Re:Finally... (Score:5, Informative)
I'm not going to say what I hope happens to your grave!
Re:Finally... (Score:5, Insightful)
I think you'll find a lot of actors with kinda bizarro political views on all sides of the spectrum. And a good number of them are quite politically active.
I'm old enough to remember some people saying such sentiments about John Wayne when he died. I'm sure some people on the other side of the political spectrum will say similar things about Jane Fonda, or Streisand when they die.
In short: They're pooterheads.
These are actors. Yes, they've been politically active. Lots of people are. But unlike Reagan or Schwarzenegger they've not run for political office.
Yes, you may disagree with them. But, Isn't singing and strumming happy tunes to their death a bit much?
To blatantly steal a quote from Sergeant Hulka in Stripes "Lighten up, Francis."
Re:Finally... (Score:5, Insightful)
How do you define an 'NRA Extremist'? Is it anybody who believes the citizenry should be able to defend itself from a tyrannical government? Is it the kind of person who is 840 times less likely [mcgonigle.us] to commit gun crime than the general population?
Re:Finally... (Score:4, Insightful)
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Why do you find it bizarre? It allowed the populace to defend itself against and repulse the UK military in the 18th century. It nearly allowed the southern states to fend off/repell the US military in the 19th century.
It allowed a small group in Waco, TX to fend off the federal government for nearly 2 months.
If you mean that a SINGLE person cant defend itself against the
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We'll never be able to subdue a well armed insurgency, right?
They'll fight to the end and win, right?
They have to believe these things, otherwise their main reason for having a "well armed militia" to defend against government oppression is just a bunch of hoo-ha.
Re:Finally... (Score:4, Insightful)
Seemed to work ok in Vietnam and Iraq! (Score:5, Insightful)
It sucks for we USA but that seems to be working just fine for the insurgents in Iraq. 20 billion dollars a month in occupation is being spent trying to suppress an insurgency that is armed with little more than homemade explosives and automatic weapons. If that does not give you an idea as to the efficacy of the right to keep and bear arms in keeping out a government that you do not like, then nothing will.
The United States IS Extremist (Score:3, Interesting)
There is not a single page of American history where the country cannot be divided up into those sets of people - greedy people, religious fruitcakes, and political maniacs. They built the colonies, ram
Re:Finally... (Score:5, Informative)
One of my favorite stories from him was when, during the Rodney King riots, one or more fellow actors (he would not name them) called and asked if they could borrow one of his guns. He said, no, you can't, but you're welcome to come over to my place until things settle down.
Re:Finally... (Score:5, Funny)
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No need to drag the phony conservative/liberal left/right political dichotomy into things...
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Anyone who would run the NRA which specializes in spreading misinformation and pushing an 'all or none' mentality rather than reasonable discussions on gun control -- has lost all credibility for being anything other than an effective mouth piece.
The NRA is only an "extreme" organization when considered from the perspective of an anti-gun individual. The NRA has frequently colluded with anti-gun politicians and compromised away gun rights.
"Reasonable discussions" with gun prohibitionists usually revolve around "which additional class of guns are we going to outlaw today?"...which is why most in the pro-gun crowd aren't too interested in having a reasonable discussion. In fact, the entire gun-control argument is one pretty much entirely based o
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The ones on the right who think that not wanting to kill innocent civilians (because the President thinks it'll be fun) is 'supporting the tur'rists' are the fascists.
Not this arguement again. (Score:5, Insightful)
Define fascism any why you like...you will anyhow.
But history tells a different story. It was in both Nazi Germany and Fascist Italy a combination of state and corporation. Corporations did what the state told them to or were taken over outright. Fascist were more then socialists in name. State takes over corporations in fascism as in all forms of centrally planned economies (in mixed economies like Europe and the USA some industries are run as government planned and often owned monopolies). When corporations take over the state it's called 'Corporatism'.
For examples of corporations running states outright a jaded eye could look at the recent history of sub Saharan Africa or the history of the English empire. Not pretty either but nothing like the body count leftism in general has built.
'Progressivism' as it's currently defined is simply the latest name for old school socialist thinking. Socialism does have an inherent concentration of power issue. Government run industries are almost always monopolies.
In any case as long as we keep ourselves well armed we as Americans will be too expensive to govern with too heavy a hand. That was the ultimate purpose of the second. It had nothing to do with hunting, everything to do with enabling at least the threat of the next armed revolution.
Go to the range folks. The gun is useless if you can't practice gun control.
Charlton Heston would have wanted you to go to the range soon. I'd say to take your kids with you, but this is /. Damn am I on topic? WTF am I doing?
Take a safety course if you're getting your first weapon. Start with a 22LR pistol or rifle.
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In that vein: Neal Stephenson, Stephen Baxter, KIm Stanley Robinson, Greg Benford. Have a look at and more generally, [hardsf.net]Locus [locusmag.com].
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Baxter is the most depressing author I have ever read in my entire life.
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Many of his novels actually display a great amount of hope. Human intelligence often survives through incredible trials and demanding circumstances. The Ring plays out this way, as does Titan.
Voyage was one of the best "alternate history" novels I've read.
Back on topic, Heston was John Wayne with skill. He played some
Re:Sad to see him go, never thought about this asp (Score:2)
Try the Baen Free Library over at Baen.com They have a lot of the old SF authors, as well as many of the newer ones. Doesn't cost you anything, and if you find an author you like, you can buy them. No DRM.
Getting back to the topic, let's not forget his voice work in "Cats & Dogs" as the Mastiff in charge.
Re:Republicans (Score:4, Insightful)
No need to be Republican - it's important to admit when people on your side are being dishonest. (And "Bowling for Columbine" misrepresented Charlton Heston's actions and basically everything else it portrayed.) One could argue that the party of Lincoln fell so far because Republicans wouldn't call out Republicans for ethical lapses, and it'd be sad if the Democrats followed them any further down that road.
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Re:Republicans (Score:5, Insightful)
That's a bit hard to do because his most insidious, dishonest points are ones he denies making at all. His subtle edits and omissions of facts lead the viewer to an erroneous conclusion that was never explicitly stated.
It's been a long time since I looked into this, but iirc Moore manipulated Charlton Heston into saying something which could be seen as racist (neglecting to mention that the man actually marched with MLK Jr!), implied that Heston led a rally in Colorado in response to Columbine (it was planned well in advance), and that Heston used language which, given the situation, was quite inflammatory (those snippets were actually spliced together from several different rallies). He made many other, less topical, manipulations of fact.
I am a Democrat, and I am disappointed that so few Democrats complain about Moore.
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Don't forget to include "civil rights moron." AC, you can be such an idiot.