Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch Provokes Bomb Scare 186
Bomb disposal teams were called in and a nearby pub evacuated after water company engineers mistook a Monty Python film prop for a hand grenade. After nearly an hour of examination by bomb experts, they counted to three. No more. No less. Three was the number they counted, and the number they counted was three. Four they did not count, nor two, except to proceed to three. Five was right out. Once the number three had been reached, being the third number, they declared that the grenade was actually a copy of the "Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch" used in the film Monty Python And The Holy Grail. A police spokeswoman confirmed that the device was a toy and that it had been no danger to the public.
Whiny bastards (Score:4, Insightful)
What a bunch of whiny little bitches. I bet they'd have been whining pretty loudly if the cops were faster but didn't a thorough job of it.
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It's not whining, it's a statement of damages. The world would be a better place, if the aggregate of costs like this were counted in policing decisions.
Fat chance, though; here in the US, stomping black teens to death and shooting mothers; grandmothers; kids; and even the mayor's dogs, is just a day in the life of a SWAT Drug Warrior.
Re:Whiny bastards (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Whiny bastards (Score:5, Insightful)
This argument can be used to justify anything the police decide to do, even if as in this case, there was NO RISK AT ALL. As in the even sillier case of the "Aqua Teen Hunger Force" hysteria in Boston. Even if the frontline staff know, or should have known, that there was no danger at all, the response by ass-covering bureaucrats is to declare a full terror alert.
And all the airline security measures, the idiotic restrictions on liquids because of a fantasy threat that could never have been carried out are the same. NO ONE IS SAFER because of this security theatre.
Re:Whiny bastards (Score:4, Interesting)
the idiotic restrictions on liquids because of a fantasy threat that could never have been carried out
I think the airline restrictions are pretty stupid myself, but mainly for reasons you probably haven't thought of. However, having a military background, I can assure you that your belief that small volumes of fluids can't be used to cause catastrophic damage is sorely in need of a reality check.
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Suicide bombers on planes are very rare, and usually pretty dumb. None of those who've tried have had any chance of carrying it off. And if there were a competent suicide bomber, he'd have no trouble circumventing
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Why are matches allowed, but a can of soda is a security threat? Because the cigarette industry whined that the 2 minutes that a person couldn't smoke upon leaving a plane was costing them money, so an item that actually was used in an attempted terrorist attack is effectively unrestricted.
Re:Whiny bastards (Score:4, Insightful)
To get back to retchdog's point; banning liquids has cost several hundreds of millions of dollars. What have we gotten for that money? Has banning liquids made it any harder for you to bring down a plane?
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Re:Whiny bastards (Score:4, Informative)
It hasn't been made impossible, but it has been made harder. But not because of anything being done by the TSA.
Bruce Schneier correctly named the two post-9/11 changes that matter. The first is reinforced, locking doors to the cockpit. The second is the change in passenger behavior. These two elements make the task for a would-be terrorist all the more difficult. Everything else is theater.
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Have the probabilities been weighed up of locked cockpit doors theoretically hindering help in an emergency, versus theoretically hindering attacks? Has anyone done any study or reasoning on this at all?
Maybe it's for the best, but I do not feel reassured that it has been a calmly considered rational decision.
As for the change in passenger behaviour - the changes in people's behaviour are exactly what extremists want. It is *not* a positive development even if people's paranoia means they will theoretically
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Simple reason they ban liquids at security.
So you're forced to buy drinks on the plane, or from the snack bar past security.
It's all about the $.
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Re:Whiny bastards (Score:4, Insightful)
Does the amount of human life saved by such security measures exceed the amount of human life lost due to extra security (in the form of waiting in line)?
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Agreed. And explosives are fairly easy to improvise from stuff under the kitchen sink if you've had the training to do it.
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But you did forget the easiest way to circumvent the 3 oz rule. Slap a prescription label on it and they'll wave it right through.
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Well, one point is that you can still bring small volumes of liquid on board an aircraft, albeit in 100 ml containers in a plastic bag. And indeed larger containers of liquid are not always detected going through X-ray if left in hand luggage. There is no repercussion whatsoever if you are caught trying to bring a large container of liquid through (except that it's taken off you and disposed of haphazardly). How does this magically stop any theoretical liquid plot? Answer - it doesn't, anyone wishing to do
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And all the airline security measures, the idiotic restrictions on liquids because of a fantasy threat that could never have been carried out are the same.
Actually the liquid bomb threat was real though you should question why it took 10 years for security to crack down on it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philippine_Airlines_Flight_434 [wikipedia.org]
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No, the liquid bomb threat wasn't real. Not the way those losers supposedly tried it anyway. And have you heard there are explosive solids? Should we then ban all solids from flights? If not, how is it different?
The link you gave says that bomb was nitroglycerin. Well, that should be detected in any case, if they're using chemical or dog sniffers.
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[FIXED]the cost of an hour's business at a Windmill is insignificant... next to the power of the force!
I hate it when someone doesn't finish a good quote!!! :-)
Bill
Re:Whiny bastards (Score:5, Insightful)
When weighed against a possible loss of lives, the cost of an hour's business at a Windmill is insignificant.
To take that argument to its logical absurdity, the safest way for us to live our lives would be for us all to stay in our houses and never go anywhere. Not only would that stop the terrorists, but it would eliminate the road toll, prevent mass murders and the worst anyone would ever have to fear would be cutting themselves on the cheese grater.
But we don't do that, because we accept that there will always be an element of risk in our lives, and that the compensation is a life that's happy, interesting and entertaining. Yes, it sucks if you're the one knocked down by a bus as you cross the road; but the chances of that happening are so small that we just accept the remote possibility and move on, safe in the knowledge that it's highly unlikely to happen to us. Considering that the chances of being killed in a terrorist attack are even less than being hit by a bus [reason.com], why should we view it in any other way than as an incredibly remote, and therefore acceptable, risk? If we start jumping at shadows for things such as the Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch, then we've got problems ...
(Thankfully, the global financial crisis has pretty much shoved terrorism into the background where it belongs. Nobody cares about Osama anymore, when they've got more immediate worries like mortgages to deal with ...)
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That is a statement one would expect from a psychopath. If you really believe that -- not just trolling -- then you need to see a psychiatrist. Seriously. If you see human life as so valueless then you will eventually kill someone, if you haven't already.
Re:Whiny bastards (Score:4, Insightful)
things as harmless looking as a box of chocolates or a book can be deadly ordinance if rigged up properly.
That's exactly the point. Normal people can't actually tell a book or anything else from a bomb, so unless there's a credible threat (a phoned-in threat, or a tip with some real substance and technical detail to it) it really is a waste of time and resources to investigate every little suspicion. If this had been a bomb, it's unlikely that anyone would have suspected as much just by looking at it.
Re:Whiny bastards (Score:5, Insightful)
Hmmm. From TFA:
Water company engineers spotted the object when they lifted up a fire hydrant cover during work on a street in Shoreditch, east London.
If it's the mass-produced replica pictured - does the goddamn thing look like an explosive device? Do you think maybe the word GRENADE on it had almost everything to do with this?
"spotted a cheap piece of crap and kicked it away as they got to work" would have been the events of the day, had that placard not been on it, i betcha. So some genius thought a bright gold beanbag with a silver cross and a plastic gem on it was a bomb, because it said HOLY BOMB on it.
Add to that years of pandering to public idiocy and paranoia, and you wonder if a city couldn't be shut down overnight by putting little post-its with the word BOMB on it all over the place. "Well, we can't take the chance! We have to assume it is!"
Bah, i'm not explaining this as clearly as i'd like. And maybe TFA doesn't fully explain the context, i grant you. Bottom line, i believe the only reason this happened is this very un-bomb-like object had the word GRENADE on it. -shudder-
Re:Whiny bastards (Score:5, Insightful)
Once the bomb squad's involved, they must treat it like it's a real explosive until they can determine otherwise. Were I a criminal with a grudge against cops, I would do something exactly like this in the hopes they dismissed it as a toy. Then, when they got close because it's just a toy, I'd blow it.
Can you imagine cops not taking it seriously, and having it hurt the public?
Talk about a lose lose situation.
Re:Whiny bastards (Score:5, Funny)
If you're in a war, instead of throwing a hand grenade at the enemy, throw one of those small pumpkins. Maybe it'll make everyone think how stupid war is, and while they are thinking, you can throw a real grenade at them.
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If you're in a war, instead of throwing a hand grenade at the enemy, throw one of those small pumpkins. Maybe it'll make everyone think how stupid war is, and while they are thinking, you can throw a real grenade at them.
If you're in a war, and you're close enough to throw a grenade at them, you're doing it wrong. In the Land Of The Free, you sit home and bitch about the government while watching the news.
Re:Whiny bastards (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Whiny bastards (Score:5, Funny)
Quick, he's distracted by the joke, throw your grenade now!
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If you're in a war, and you're close enough to throw a grenade at them, you're doing it wrong. In the Land Of The Free, you sit home and bitch about the government while watching the news.
Not at all! The only way to "get the terrorists" and not hurt their brother or sister is to go in there and pull him out manually. I'm sorry, but the US-style of just bombing everyone and everything is murder. A soldier's job is first and foremost to protect civilians, whether those civilians be your own people or the other guy's. Yes, soldiers daily risk their own lives to protect the "other side"'s civilians. That is exactly what the job is about.
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A soldier's job is first and foremost to protect civilians, whether those civilians be your own people or the other guy's.
I don't know what makes you think this is how wars are fought. Despite romantic notions of chivalry, wars have never been fought this way.
The sad reality of history is that wars are fought to accomplish the political and economic ends of those in control of military force. It has always been the norm for civilians to be harmed in the course of warfare. People who believe that war is a le
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You jest, but I once threw a stun grenade at some idiot because I didn't have a flak grenade (or what ever you call them in English) on me. The genius lowered his rifle and _picked_it_up_! I saw it blow up in his hand, but I didn't get to see what happened to him because we were a bit busy in the other direction as well. I wonder what he thought it was, as stun grenades are bright orange and don't look like flak grenades. I wonder if, had I thrown a flak grenade, the end result would have been as effective.
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We call them frags or frag grenades, short for 'fragmentation grenade'.
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Thanks.
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I'm sorry, but the thought of a terrorist hiding a real bomb in a replica of the Holy Handgrenade of Antioch is just totally bizarre.
I mean, as this story shows, you shouldn't pick something that causes head scratching, but instead pick something that even the most uneducated would consider harmless: a dead gerbil, a water soaked book, a breadbox, whatever.
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... and eventually swings the other way into carelessness.
After 10,000 false alarms, you would start to expect them to be false.
Balance is the answer here, as it is to so many other questions.
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Not to mention stretching out resources and making it easy for a finite amount of manpower to miss a real one.
It's a lot like a DDoS. Flood the bomb squad with crap alerts, and they don't service the good ones.
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So some genius thought a bright gold beanbag with a silver cross and a plastic gem on it was a bomb, because it said HOLY BOMB on it.
"Genius" must've been undead. Not like anyone else is going to be overly concerned about holy damage.
Re:Whiny bastards (Score:5, Funny)
If I were a terrorist, which I assure you I'm not, then I would disguise my weapons as toy weapons. And I would put blinking LEDs on it, and perhaps make the toy-bomb-like objects tick. Of course, if I were a terrorist, I would assure you that, even though I have thought about ways to hide weapons, I am in fact not a terrorist. Wait, there's someone at the door...
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If I were a terrorist waiting for orders, which I assure you I'm not, I would disguise my weapons as instructed. Muhammad Al'Hasini and I agree the LEDs are a good idea and will get to work, if we were terrorists, which we assure you we are not.
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Also, I need a new tinfoil hat, this one has lost its pizazz.
Re:Whiny bastards (Score:5, Interesting)
Add to that years of pandering to public idiocy and paranoia, and you wonder if a city couldn't be shut down overnight by putting little post-its with the word BOMB on it all over the place. "Well, we can't take the chance! We have to assume it is!"
Like this guy with a picture of a gun on his shirt [bbc.co.uk].
Re:Whiny bastards (Score:4, Insightful)
A BAA spokesman said there was no record of the incident and no "formal complaint" had been made.
"If a T-shirt had a rude word or a bomb on it, for example, a passenger may be asked to remove it," he said.
"We are investigating what happened to see if it came under this category.
"If it's offensive, we don't want other passengers upset."
So, if it had been a realistic picture of a Beretta, or a rapper or a cowboy holding a pistol, everyone would have nodded at their "wise decision" and the incident wouldn't have even warranted an article? If it's a cartoon robot holding the gun, then it's a gray area and they need to think about it?
Where are the adults in Britain and what are they doing?
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As a guess, I'd say probably hiding from all the cameras.
Re:Whiny bastards (Score:5, Insightful)
Maybe somebody wanted to go home early?
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The implication of this is that some mad bomber could make a real bomb and just put some damn fool marking on it, causing people to cheerfully ignore it because it doesn't look like something they saw on TV or in a cartoon. Leave out the blinky lights and stenciled "explosive" markings (not to mention pins and sparkly fuses) but instead put it in a box labeled "water pump equipment" or "1 doz. Acme paving stones." Hell, if you put the thing in a burlap sack with a dollar sign on it some moron would probably
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I prepared explosive runes this morning.
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"I bet they'd have been whining pretty loudly if the cops were faster but didn't a thorough job of it."
I can imagine. Just think of all the lives they'd have put at risk by not taking every precaution necessary in disabling a toy grenade.
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Robin: Holy bat boxes Batman, I think the Joker has placed bombs in the bat box.
Batman: Your right, we can't take the chance, we must inform the mayor and the bomb squad immediately.
Bat defences pierced by bomb panic [theregister.co.uk]
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I can imagine. Just think of all the lives they'd have put at risk by not taking every precaution necessary in disabling a potential grenade.
There, fixed that for you.
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I suppose that you live in a place where bombs have not yet been known to explode at random. London has had bomb attacks in the recent past.
I suppose they found it (Score:2)
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Most of us could enjoy Monty Python if they weren't so over(mis)quoted.
Sure they're funny, but you and you and you and you and you aren't.
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To "Anonymous Coward" (Score:2)
Run Away!! (Score:5, Funny)
Run away!!
This just in... (Score:2, Funny)
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It's a bloody albatross.
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Worms (Score:2, Informative)
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That damned thing was my all time favorite, next to the concrete donkey.
London: So Boston finally has someone to laugh at. (Score:2, Funny)
Re:London: So Boston finally has someone to laugh (Score:4, Insightful)
They were playing slightly safer than they needed to. After confirming that everything was safe they laughed about it and didn't slam anyone with a trumped up charge to justify their hysteria.
Hell, it took them an hour and everything was back to normal.
And ... (Score:5, Funny)
... the Lord did grin.
Of course no-one was in danger. No-one took out the Holy Pin.
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the animator... (Score:2, Funny)
sadly they missed the animator at the end of the bar who died from a heart attack
wonder what they'll do when they a bunny (Score:2)
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When they a bunny?!?!?!?
That makes no sense whatsoever.
What are you babbling about?
Re:wonder what they'll do when they see a bunny (Score:2)
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Okay, now I see.
In response: Ni!
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"Okay, now I."
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But it's only a fleshwound!
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But he says he's not dead!
The only thing more hilarious than a Python quote, is a string of Python quotes placed together seemingly at random.
Never ending Theme/Meme on /. (Score:2)
But.....I got better!
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Re:wonder what they'll do when they a bunny (Score:5, Funny)
Jack Handy (Score:2, Redundant)
"If you're in a war, instead of throwing a hand grenade at the enemy, throw one of those small pumpkins. Maybe it'll make everyone think how stupid war is, and while they are thinking, you can throw a real grenade at them."
Good thing they didn't notice the Chambord (Score:3, Interesting)
It's a good thing the bartender didn't bring out the Chambord Liqueur [google.com].
They'd have decided he had an arsenal and he'd still be closed.
And my plan is ruined (Score:2)
So much for my plan to make a real bomb in one of those toys...
We live in fear.... (Score:4, Interesting)
This past September they had to evacuate a Philadelphia Phillies game at Citizens Bank Park because someone confused a fucking hot dog wrapper for a bomb.
Our government, schools, media, and society as a whole train us to be paranoid and live in fear, to dumb us down. Not to sound like a conspiracy nut but this is the world that we occupy.
http://cbs3.com/topstories/Philadelphia.Phillies.Citizens.2.824722.html [cbs3.com]
http://www.nj.com/phillies/index.ssf/2008/09/hot_dogs_create_bomb_scare_at.html [nj.com]
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/blog/big_league_stew/post/Hot-dogs-cause-a-delicious-bomb-scare-before-Phi?urn=mlb,110486 [yahoo.com]
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This past September they had to evacuate a Philadelphia Phillies game at Citizens Bank Park because someone confused a fucking hot dog wrapper for a bomb.
And this, my friends, is why they should cut you off after six beers at baseball games.
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someone confused a fucking hot dog wrapper for a bomb.
Why would someone do that with a hot dog wrapper? Did he not read the instructions correctly? Wrong wiener!
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I agree it's stupid, but it's not as bad as you made it out to be. They were not confused by a hot dog wrapper - the hot dogs were apparently wrapped in white packaging and taped up with duct tape, according to your second link. I certainly wouldn't have assumed it was bombs, as someone apparently did, but I wouldn't have thought it was just a bunch of hot dogs either.
Your choice of wording leads one to think that you're saying there was a hot dog wrapper, as in the thing that is wrapped around the hot dog
It couldnt have been a bomb (Score:3, Funny)
We all know that Red Blinky numbers are the favourite of terrorists the world over.
RS
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Well, the pub was certainly not expecting . . . (Score:2)
. . . the Spanish Inquisition!
"Our two main weapons are fear surprise, and the Holy Hand Grenade . . . oh, wait . . ."
Bomb Threat at Bomb Drill (Score:2)
Years ago, there was a mass casualty drill at PNC Park in Pittsburgh. Near the end of the drill, someone put a large bag in the decon area. I don't know if this was something the Feds did as part of the drill or if someone just left a bag in the wrong place.
Someone attempted to declare an emergency and cordon off the area. By that point, most people wer
Re:Wikipedia (Score:5, Insightful)
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Same people post on slashdot, same people write on wikipedia. [citation needed]
there fixed that fix for you
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We forgot all about your needs, we were too busy fulfilling our own.
But it's a HOLY handgrenade. (Score:2)
Britain will be calling in help from Boston's bomb technicians to confirm the grenade is disarmed.
But it's a HOLY hand grenade. That implies the explosion may be miraculous. Which means normal tests for whether it's armed and normal disarmament techniques may not work.
You need a priest to handle this. (If it were an UNholy hand grenade you'd need an exorcist.)
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Easter is less than one month away! There will be thousands of fake bunnies! with millions of fake eggs! Who will protect the citizens from the fake eggs?
How will we find the killer rabbit? What will the police do?