Comic Sans, Font of Ill Will 503
Kelson writes "The Wall Street Journal profiles Vincent Connare, designer of the web's most-hated font, Comic Sans. Not surprisingly, the font's origins go back to Microsoft Bob, where he saw a talking dog speaking in Times New Roman. Connare pulled out Watchmen and The Dark Knight Returns for reference, and created the comic book-style font over the next week. 'Mr. Connare has looked on, alternately amused and mortified, as Comic Sans has spread from a software project at Microsoft Corp. 15 years ago to grade-school fliers and holiday newsletters, Disney ads and Beanie Baby tags, business emails, street signs, Bibles, porn sites, gravestones and hospital posters about bowel cancer. ... The jolly typeface has spawned the Ban Comic Sans movement, nearly a decade old but stronger now than ever, thanks to the Web."
Similar to Windows hate? (Score:5, Insightful)
Comic Sans itself isn't a bad font. It is easily readable, and more than anything else, that is the best measure of a font.
Just because it is so popular people hate it. It's like people hating on pop stars, Windows, and Kraft Parmesan cheese.
Popular doesn't mean bad. On the contrary, it means it fits the needs of many people.
Re:Similar to Windows hate? (Score:5, Funny)
It is easily readable
Yes. Compared to, say, Wingdings.
Re:Similar to Windows hate? (Score:5, Funny)
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But seriously, research on readability isn't all that definitive. The conventional wisdom is that readability is maximized with serif fonts, ragged-right typesetting, and lines that are roughly 10-15 cm wide. However, the actual research does not consistently support those statements. The truth is that it's mainly a matter of taste.
Re:Similar to Windows hate? (Score:5, Interesting)
> Yes. Compared to, say, Wingdings.
Actually, it's one of only three or four fonts my sister (who teaches lower elementary school) is willing to use for classroom materials, because it's one of the only ones the kids can read, because it uses the simple letter forms they teach the kids in kindergarten. The biggest points of contention for most fonts are the lowercase letters a and g. A few other sans fonts use the simple-form g, but almost none of them use the simple-form lowercase a.
Now, one could argue that the schools *should* be teaching the normal lowercase forms that are ordinarily used in almost all print materials throughout the entire English-speaking world. But they *aren't*. (It may be partly because the more common forms are more complex and therefore require more coordination to write. A lot of kindergarten students struggle to get the stick on the right side of the circle for lowercase a, so asking them to write the Times form of the letter admittedly seems a bit much.)
Anyway, I would argue that Comic Sans is better than *several* of the other fonts from Microsoft's "Core Fonts for the Web" initiative.
Georgia and Verdana, of course, are clearly the best of the batch. They actually look good, and furthermore they look good together, which is a fairly big deal. You've got to have a basic serif and a basic sans font that look okay together, and this is a reasonably good pair. I've seen better pairs, but not *many* of them, and especially not ones that were available in 1996. Also, Georgia has a real actual honest-to-goodness italic face, which even manages to LOOK GOOD, which is a fairly rare quality. (I'm not a big fan of most italic faces, as a rule. If anybody knows of a freely-available sans-serif font that actually looks good in italic, I'd sure like to hear about it, because as yet I've not seen one.) Verdana runs a little on the large side, but you can fix that by decrementing the point size, so it's not exactly a deal-killer.
Impact and Andale Mono are acceptable for their intended purposes (wet paint signs and source code, respectively). Lucida Console is in some ways better than Andale Mono, but it's not freely redistributable. Bitstream Vera Sans Mono is alright, but it didn't come out until later.
But after that, really, the fifth-best one in the pack is Comic Sans. Bear with me...
Arial and Arial Black and Trebuchet aren't actively ugly, but they're mediocre, and more to the point they're also pretty redundant with other, better fonts from the same initiative (Verdana, Impact, and Verdana, respectively). Admittedly, Arial dates to Windows 3.x and thus is older than Verdana, but once Verdana was produce we no longer needed Arial for anything (because Verdana looks better), so why was it still included, why is it *still* included with Windows? Why? As for Trebuchet, I never understood why it was needed at any time. It was never *bad*, but it also never had anything to offer over other fonts that were already available.
Then we come to Times New Roman, which is uglier than a half-shaved mandrill, and Courier New, which is the most heinously hideous excuse for a font ever created in True Type format. (I've seen bitmapped screen fonts that were worse, but not many.)
I assume we're not going to try to compare Webdings with anything because, you know, it was never intended for the same basic purpose as the other core fonts (namely, typesetting actual words).
So, Comic Sans isn't the best font ever, but it's orders of magnitude nicer looking than TNR, to say nothing of Courier New, and furthermore it offers a significant stylistic difference from other available fonts, unlike Arial and Arial Black and Trebuchet. It's not as good as Verdana or Georgia, and its niche is (arguably) not as important as the ones for Impact and Andale Mono, but it still serves a useful purpose.
You don't like Comics Sans? Hey, fine, uninstall it from your computer, and websites that try to use it (and don't provide a fallback alternative) will render in whatever font you set as your browser's default. Voila.
But personally I don't see what's so bad about it.
Times New Roman is the one I wish was never created.
Re:Similar to Windows hate? (Score:4, Interesting)
1 49R33 4|\|D 7|-|1|\|| 7|-|@ L337 5P34| 5|-|0ULD b3 7|-|3 r3PL4(3/\/\3|\|7.
Does anyone use 1337 5p34k these days? It was quite common five years back, but it seems to have died out almost completely.
Having thought about it, I realised that it seemed to have disappeared shortly after all those articles appeared in newspapers explaining what all those strange characters your children were typing meant. Which probably isn't a coincidence; wasn't the whole point of 1337 its impenetrability?
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Why would they censor "wuck"? It's not even a word.
Re:Similar to Windows hate? (Score:4, Interesting)
The purpose of leetspeak was to evade search and censorship efforts. A filter looking for "fuck" doesn't find "fu<k".
That as well- someone mentioned this the last time I commented on the disappearance of leetspeak, but generally speaking once the would-be-censors know these tricks- or rather, suddenly knowledgable parents realise what's going on- they lose their power.
:-)
Anyway, I agree that leetspeak probably started out for that reason, but I suspect it eventually became cool for its own sake. Until parents were suddenly hip to what the kids were doing, man
BTW, what's the deal with websites that happily discuss adult sexual and social topics, yet censor the naughty swear words and force people to use euphemisms (or auto-replaces them)? It seems quite silly to me. Is this to avoid problems with being blocked or something?
It strikes me that it would be better to allow people to swear, filter-replace it by default and allow people with accounts to turn the filter off. Censorship software might pick up on this and blacklist the site anyway, but it strikes me that for a site with obviously adult discussions it's likely to get blacklisted anyway, regardless of the amount of naughty words they filter.
Re:Similar to Windows hate? (Score:5, Funny)
Comic Sans itself isn't a bad font. It is easily readable, and more than anything else, that is the best measure of a font.
Just because it is so popular people hate it. It's like people hating on pop stars, Windows, and Kraft Parmesan cheese.
I AGREE. PRO TIP: THE MOST EASILY READABLE SUBSET OF ANY FONT IS THE CAPITAL LETTERS. YOU SHOULD ALWAYS USE CAPS TO MAKE YOUR MESSAGES EASIER TO READ.
Re:Similar to Windows hate? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Similar to Windows hate? (Score:5, Funny)
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actually, this is incorrect. when designers were working on one of the first computer fonts, they had only enough storage for one set of letters. a study was conducted to determine which one was most legible, and lower case won. the reason they went on to use only capitals? apparently you can't write the name of the christian deity in all lowercase.
yes, folks, religion is why old terminals were all-caps only.
Re:Similar to Windows hate? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Similar to Windows hate? (Score:5, Funny)
[citation needed]
That pretty much sums up religion in a nutshell.
Re:Similar to Windows hate? (Score:5, Informative)
What, you need a citation for the jargon file? Hand in your geek card, and go back to whatever pop culture meme site you came from.
Re:Similar to Windows hate? (Score:4, Funny)
Didn't they even have space for an extra upper-case 'G'?
Re:Similar to Windows hate? (Score:5, Funny)
You'd need an upper-case 'Y', 'H' and 'W' for YHWH.
Interestingly, whilst this is often pronounced "Yahweh" or "Jehovah", written Hebrew doesn't actually supply any indication of what vowels should be inserted between the consonants. This means that the Abrahamic deity might actually have been called "Yahoo Wahoo" by His parents (or, seeing as this is a tech site - "Yahoo! Wahoo!").
Re:Similar to Windows hate? (Score:5, Funny)
And "B" for Baal.
And "C" for Ceridwen.
And "D" for Demeter.
And "E" for Ereskigal.
And "F" for Frigg.
And "G" for Ganesha.
And "H" for Horus.
And "I" for Ishtar.
And "J" for Juno.
And "K" for Krishna.
And "L" for Loki.
And "M" for Mithras.
And "N" for Neptune.
And "O" for Osiris.
And "P" for Pan.
And "Q" for Quetzalcoatl.
And "R" for Rama.
And "S" for Shen-Yi.
And "T" for Tiamat.
And "U" for Uzume.
And "V" for Vulcan.
And "W" for Xi Wang-mu.
And "X" for the other bit of Xi Wang-mu.
"Y" for Yhwh, as you say, and the other bit of Shen-Yi
and "Z" for "Zeus".
Talk about a loose specification? "The Deity"?
Re:Similar to Windows hate? (Score:4, Informative)
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All I said was "This kipper is good enough for Jehovah!"
Re:Similar to Windows hate? (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Similar to Windows hate? (Score:5, Interesting)
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Ok, I get e, but how are a smudged O and C easier to tell apart than a smudged o and c?
Re:Similar to Windows hate? (Score:4, Interesting)
I know it's the least-used letter in the English language, but I didn't realize that "Q" has been completely forgotten.
There are very few fonts where "Q" does not have a stroke below the baseline. Even the san-serif fonts requested by the Slashdot CSS have at least slight descenders for the "Q". But, it's even more obvious in Courier:
Quick
Re:Similar to Windows hate? (Score:5, Funny)
the reason they went on to use only capitals? apparently you can't write the name of the christian deity in all lowercase.
Yes you can. It's not like he's going to strike you down with lighting bolts or something.
god
See, nothing ha
Re:Similar to Windows hate? (Score:4, Funny)
Dude, you forgot the NO CARRIER part.
Re:Similar to Windows hate? (Score:5, Informative)
Mod parent down.
The parent is so wrong, it's scary. One word, dude: Baudot. It's the predecessor to ASCII and was used to send telegrams by wire and wireless. Another word: teletype. That's where "TTY" comes from. The first computer user interface equipment was converted teletype equipment. Third word: descenders. The first teletype printers used a strip of paper, "ticker tape," to print on. Capital letters in Roman based character sets have no descenders (if Q is not stylized.) Capitals represented the most efficient use of the paper, and having only one case of characters made Baudot smaller-- fewer bits per character, fewer chances for error making the text illegible (until FEC and other transmission strategies came along.)
And who first realized that all caps make for efficiency? Stone masons. Ever seen a Greco-Roman building?
Re:Similar to Windows hate? (Score:5, Interesting)
Uppercase are mostly straight lines and hence easier to carve.
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And who first realized that all caps make for efficiency? Stone masons. Ever seen a Greco-Roman building?
There was no lowercase Latin or Greek letters at all in Antiquity - it is a much later invention. So it was not a matter of efficiency back then.
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If a letter is never written, does it exist?
Re:Similar to Windows hate? (Score:5, Interesting)
Absolutely wrong. All uppercase letters are harder to read because our minds see blocks of text, not individual letters. When you change the fundamental shape of a word (by making it one big block of uppercase text), you make the reader stop and look at each individual letter, as opposed to seeing the word shape.
As for a citation, too many to post. I have a grad degree in Education with an emphasis in typography and cognition.
Re:Similar to Windows hate? (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Similar to Windows hate? (Score:4, Interesting)
My design and typography skills come from the mid-late 80s. My graduate degree comes from the late 2000s. I've seen a lot of changes over the years, and I am not limited to post-"typography in computing" knowledge.
Single words are very short phrases are acceptable in all-caps, but there is no benefit to doing so. What is bad about all caps is by assuming that capitalizing everything, it becomes important. In actuality, by capitalizing everything, nothing stands out. I was in the Army, and they are notorious for all-caps. For one presentation, I made all the key points lower case, just to make a point. In a solid block of upper case text, the one or two lower-case words are the ones that stood out, which is the entire point in the first place.
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First, why am I not surprised that Microsoft is completely backwards in thought compared to the rest of the industry? Second, the research you cited is dated. Third, the excerpt you provided proves my point. We spend our entire lives reading text in lower case. Certainly we'd get faster reading all upper-case the more we read it, but we'd never surpass our ability to read what we've been reading all our lives (lower-case).
In short, it isn't important WHY we can read lower case faster, only that we do.
Re:Similar to Windows hate? (Score:5, Interesting)
Lower-case letters have certain shapes--some hang down, some extend up, some are right in the middle. We learn to recognize these visual clues. Upper-case letters lack these visual clues. Instead, upper-case letters revert to a different shape, but these different shapes never vary by hanging below the line or above the line, because by definition of being upper-case, they take up the entire space.
WHEN YOU TYPE EVERYTHING IN UPPERCASE LETTERS THERE ARE NO LONGER ANY DESCENDERS OR ASCENDERS TO HELP DIFFERENTIATE THE SHAPES OF THE LETTERS. The reader then must slow down and look at each individual letter, then put the word together in their mind. If you don't believe me, take a 1,000 word document read it, then change it to all upper case, then read it again. Tell me you aren't slightly mentally fatigued upon the second reading (give yourself time to recover between readings).
Word shape is important. Take mono-spaced fonts for example. They may work well in writing lines of code or in spreadsheet columns (where it is helpful for the letters to line up), but in English prose, they are tiresome to read, because they completely eliminate the shape of words that we are used to reading. Again, change your paper to Courier, then try to read it. Tiresome.
Re:Similar to Windows hate? (Score:5, Insightful)
All you have to do is look at LEDs to see why caps were used. I have an ancient Control Data Calculator that can easily show you why caps are used.
I will go one step further and tell you your post makes you look like a bigot. Every quirk in the world is not the fault of religion, get over it already.
The man who denied God (not a flame, but humor) (Score:4, Funny)
[paraphrased from an old hindu parable]
dargaud was a man who denied the Deity.
Every time that something happened to him, good or bad, he reminded himself "There is no god". Everyday he repeated these words, and prided himself in his knowledge and derided those who sought guidance or succor from the heavens.
dargaud then died, and was immediately taken into the presence of the Deity.
Why am I here?, he wondered, I always denied your existence!
You are here because you kept me in your mind constantly!
Re:Similar to Windows hate? (Score:5, Interesting)
Also, in addition to this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All_caps [wikipedia.org]
From the article: "However, the shapes of words set in lowercase provide a valuable cue to readers that helps speed the process of reading; type in all caps forms a rectangular shape for every word, which makes distinguishing words harder."
I once read on a forum that it is on average %10 slower to read anything written in all capital then in mixed or lower case. This may not seem significant until one considers the ramifications for reading significantly long documents or the build up of lost productivity over years of reading terminal messages.
Re:Similar to Windows hate? (Score:4, Insightful)
If that's the main complaint, the problem is that most comics are all caps that I've seen. The Far Side is the lone exception that I've found in my collection, and on my city's newspaper, The Family Circus plus a more obscure Ballard Street are the exceptions, everything else is all caps.
Not only that, the name of the font tells us it's a comic typeface. The designer should know what they're doing if they stray too far out of the stated intent of a design element, and as such, the problem is most likely a misuse of the typeface, and not the actual typeface itself.
Re:Similar to Windows hate? (Score:5, Insightful)
If it stuck to speech balloons and the occasional kids' item, nobody would be against it.
The reason to hate it is that it's the Universal "Specialty" font. If you don't want a serif font, or a plain font like Arial, the first tool of choice is Comic Sans.
It's like when people use ketchup to make spaghetti sauce. It sort of works, but it's just wrong.
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Arial??
You mean this cheapo sana font with no proper kerning/ligatures.
nobody wants that....
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I was fine with the Arial example, but perhaps Helvetica would be a better choice. Still boring enough for income tax forms and I think still commonly installed on systems.
Re:Similar to Windows hate? (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Similar to Windows hate? (Score:4, Interesting)
Yes. if you put a page containing the same text, one in arial and one in helvetica besides each other in 1m distance you will see the difference without looking at single letters. Overly hefty usage of arial for headlines was one of the reasons MS office documents looked so incredibly crappy when printed on a decent printer.
Re:Similar to Windows hate? (Score:4, Interesting)
I was fine with the Arial example, but perhaps Helvetica would be a better choice. Still boring enough for income tax forms and I think still commonly installed on systems.
Actually, Helvetica isn't commonly installed in systems because Helvetica is something you have to buy [linotype.com]. That's why Arial is so widespread. Microsoft wanted a Helvetica, but didn't want the Helvetica licensing fee. I found this out last year when I was using Photoshop to forge a city parking placard* at work. The typeface is Helvetica, and no one anywhere at my worksite had it. I had to go on Pirate Bay to find it.
* Exempts you from posted limits, including meters and school zones. I work for a very large school district. The city offers us placards, but the pointy-haired bosses decreed "bottom-level techs shall not be allowed to apply for placards, only managers", despite the fact that managers never leave the office, while techs are the ones trying to park near schools in a big city with predatory parking enforcement. So naturally I concluded that a color laser printer + a sample placard + a couple hours in Photoshop was the best solution.
Re:Similar to Windows hate? (Score:4, Funny)
So you went to the Pirate Bay to get a font for a program you also may or may not have gotten off the Pirate Bay, so that you could forge a document that would allow you to park illegally. And you're mentioning it non-anonymously on the Internet.
I don't know whether I want to applaud or facepalm.
Re:Similar to Windows hate? (Score:5, Insightful)
The reason to hate it is that it's the Universal "Specialty" font. If you don't want a serif font, or a plain font like Arial, the first tool of choice is Comic Sans.
That's because it's the only web safe font [ampsoft.net] that comes close to looking like hand writing.
There are very limited choices when it comes to choosing fonts for the web. You can't blame comic sans, but more the lack of choice.
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It's like when people use ketchup to make spaghetti sauce. It sort of works, but it's just wrong.
My god. What kind of sick freaks do this?!
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Re:Similar to Windows hate? (Score:5, Funny)
Is there a type of alphabet soup that comes in comic sans? I would have a wonderfully horrible idea of making GP post first die, and then turn in his grave:
1. Comic Sans alphabet noodles.
2. Ketchup.
3. Kraft parmesan.
4. OH TEH HORRORS. ^^
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I agreed with you until you said this. But hate for MS Windows and Kraft Parmesan is well-founded, unlike the hate for Comic Sans. And it's interesting you chose those two particular examples, as they actually have much in common.
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... unlike the hate for Comic Sans.
And Vegemite [wikipedia.org] too. This strong-tasting food paste is good for plain porridge only and nothing else. When a tiny teaspoonful is added, the porridge is absolutely delicious. When misused on other foods (especially bread), it is torture.
I think Comic Sans is a brilliantly designed but greatly misused and misunderstood product. I sympathize with the creator.
If there's an easier way of obtaining more fonts via the Internet, and including them in the documents distributed, users will be happy to try other fon
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Well, at least IE has a functionality for server-side fonts, and I heard that Mozilla was is planning on implementing one some years ago.
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But when I sprinkle a crushed Microsoft Windows CD on my spaghetti, it's a little cruncher than Kraft parmesan cheese.
Re:Similar to Windows hate? NOPE (Score:3, Insightful)
It is not related to be easy to read or not, or because it is widely used or not.
I just hate when someone delivers a report written in comic sans ms OR even WORSE, submits a paper written in that font.
It's like going to a job interview with sandals and bathsuit.
Re:Similar to Windows hate? NOPE (Score:5, Funny)
Hey, it was a job as a beach lifeguard, you insensitive clod!
Re:Similar to Windows hate? (Score:4, Insightful)
actually meeting ones need is very different than being the best choice in a poor
set of proffered options. equating popularity with applicability is a weak link
at best in the real world, or simply a naive troll attempt.
typically things are "popular" because they are promoted heavily, people are
creatures of habit, and most are highly susceptible to marketing methods
Regarding your opinion, I disagree: Comic Sans is a bad font. Typeface designers,
graphic designers, and most people with good taste and a trained eye for design
all agree (go talk to a bunch of RISD graduates or typeface designers). In this
case CS was not marketed - it has just been chosen often by untrained people who
don't really understand the effect of their choice.
As for your other examples, they are bad too: unskilled music, unhealthy food, and
insecure operating system combined with predatory monopolistic business practices
resulting in lack of choice. Everyone has an opinion, perhaps we'll just disagree.
I asked a professional graphic artist . . . (Score:2)
. . . my girlfriend, if she knew the font. She said she knew the name but not the font, and pulled it up on her Mac (of course). Her response:
"Schrecklich (frightful)!" She then added, "I have never used it, and never will."
Of course, that's just her opinion, but it's definitely not:
Just because it is so popular people hate it.
She just thinks that it is butt-ugly.
Re:I asked a professional graphic artist . . . (Score:5, Funny)
Of course, she's going out with you... So there's no accounting for taste.
Re:Similar to Windows hate? (Score:4, Interesting)
On Windows, it looks like a business font (unless cleartype hasn't been turned on, then it looks like someone puked on the monitor [ampsoft.net]). A business font trying to be fun. Of course that's going to look bad, it's a bad mix.
The problem these guys have isn't that Comic Sans looks bad, it's that it is used in places it shouldn't be. The reason it is used in places it shouldn't be is because there isn't much choice in fonts. There are really only 15 safe web fonts, which isn't much to choose from. Comic Sans is really your only choice if you are looking for something casual, informal.
On Ubuntu, the fonts look good. They are smooth and clearly drawn. BUT THEY ALL LOOK THE SAME [ampsoft.net]. Seriously, look at that list: I think Comic Sans, Lucidia Console, and MS Sans Serif are ALL THE SAME FONT. I believe this can be remedied by downloading extra font packs, I don't know if this easily possible on Ubuntu.
Re:Similar to Windows hate? (Score:5, Informative)
Are you sure you are looking at Comic Sans on an Apple system and not Chalkboard? The two fonts are similar, but Chalkboard has nicer-looking letter shapes. The kerning may be slightly different between OS X and Windows, and OS X will place the font glyphs correctly and antialias, while Windows will round the locations off to the nearest pixel, which can cause Windows displays to appear to have incorrect kerning (it's a trade - Windows gives you better-looking characters in exchange for worse-looking words, OS X is the opposite way around).
On Ubuntu, you are seeing font substitution. A half-decent font rendering system will substitute a 'similar' font (where the value of 'similar' varies based on who wrote the substitution algorithm) when the requested font is not found. It seems that you do not have several of the fonts you are attempting to display installed, and so their outlines are being provided by a completely different font. This is a configuration issue.
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I'm not saying that one is better than the other. Simply that it's a matter of choice and personal preference. This is why -- whenever I publish something -- I make s
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It's just a testament to the power of cognition.
And people prefer what they are used to. Windows users will prefer ClearType, and Mac users will prefer OS X's font rendering.
I don't think I've ever come across an experienced user who uses both Mac and Windows on a regular basis who prefers the ClearType font rendering.
Incidentally, Safari 4 for Windows enables you to switch between OS X's font rendering engine and ClearType. It's very interesting to see the vast difference it makes to the way we see website
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A shame they didn't type
sudo apt-get install msttcorefonts
before they generated that image.
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Re:Similar to Windows hate? (Score:4, Funny)
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Ah, yes. Chalkboard.
It did sound familiar, so I went to check. And lo! -- it is the font I use in Adium.
It could be better, though; it lacks Croatian diacritic marks, which OS X then borrows from other fonts.
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Maybe the most read newspaper is trying to teach you something.
Language moves on and no amount of kicking and screaming by amateur (or professional) linguists will change that ;)
Re:Similar to Windows hate? (Score:4, Interesting)
Maybe the most read newspaper is trying to teach you something.
What it's teaching me is that the most read newspaper is ignorant. The only reason that there exists a single character for quotation marks is because the ASCII code only has one space for it. It has no place in the print medium. Even the cheapest in word processing software these days will convert these automatically.
Online it's a different story. Some casual experimenting reveals that only the New York Times uses different characters for opening and closing quotation marks, where the WSJ, The Register, The Washington Times, and Ars do not.
Re:Similar to Windows hate? (Score:5, Funny)
You're just the kind of pedantic purist he was complaining about. Expecting people to use words with their actual meanings is totally unreasonable.
Font-Snob (Score:4, Funny)
Copyright thehickcoder 2009
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There is only one set of fonts for grownups: the Computer modern series from TeX. Everything else is for the computer barely-literate.
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Re:Font-Snob (Score:4, Insightful)
New phrase: "font-snob"
Call them what you will, but industrial design and attention to detail is often grossly overlooked. It's why Mac is converting hordes of longtime PC users and why Ubuntu is the most popular linux distro. It's why Adobe is a multi-billion dollar company and why black Myriad [wikipedia.org] text on a white background is instantly recognizable as an Apple ad. It's why I can no longer look at non anti-aliased fonts outside the terminal.
As a user who upgraded to Fedora 7 from Fedora Core 6 after the Liberation fonts [wikipedia.org] switchover, I can say that the impact must be experienced to be believed.
Re:Font-Snob (Score:5, Insightful)
Design is a lot like software development in this respect.
If something is poorly designed, and you aren't a designer, you may not notice it at first, just as if something is poorly coded and you're not a developer, you may not immediately sense just how unoptimized the software is.
But as you use it more, the deficiencies manifest themselves in your own frustration. Poor design makes things hard to follow and taxing to use, just as poor software development makes things sluggish and unstable. The work of a skilled designer will always be more enjoyable to use over time, just as the work of a skilled developer shows through in a solid and stable product.
I may be a font snob, but I'm also a stability snob, a performance snob, a usability snob, and a number of other snobberies.
Re:Font-Snob (Score:4, Informative)
It's why I can no longer look at non anti-aliased fonts outside the terminal.
The reason you make an exception for the terminal is likely due to bitmap fonts being used in the terminal. In most situations, an unscaled bitmap font will look better than a vector font. They were used a lot in early X apps, but are now discouraged because they lack resolution-independence (or, rather, look hideous when you scale them to compensate for a different resolution).
Oblig. Achewood (Score:3, Informative)
http://achewood.com/index.php?date=07052007 [achewood.com]
MOD PARENT UP (Score:2)
I was going to post that but the AC beat me to it
Not only e-mails (Score:5, Funny)
awesome font! (Score:5, Funny)
I'm going to start using it at work, often. it fits. I hope it infuriates many.
Taste the curb (Score:5, Informative)
From the WSJ article: "An online comic strip shows a gang kicking and swearing at Mr. Connare." That would be this. [achewood.com]
this is a font for kids (Score:2, Insightful)
see this study: http://www.surl.org/usabilitynews/81/PersonalityofFonts.asp [surl.org]
and this one proves (even with a tiny sample) that kids love this font: http://psychology.wichita.edu/mbernard/articles/UPAfontchildrenpaper.pdf [wichita.edu]
Yeah, it's (somewhat) easy to read, but it's only suitable for kids books. The problem is that it's been used in all the places the summary mentions, and the person who chose to use it obviously had zero knowledge about fonts. Some fonts are used for content, some for presentation, others a
Darn kids! (Score:4, Interesting)
How can you have Comic Sans in an email - email is a plain text medium! Pica was good enough from my daddy, it's good enough for me! And what's this business with "!" amd "=="? The proper syntax is .NOT. and .EQ.
Seriously, however, it Comic Sans really that common? I have to admit to being an old fart but I do a lot of document work, and I had to go look up what Comic Sans looked like. I had seen it before and yes, it's goofy, but is it really an issue?
Brett
Jerkcity (Score:2)
Today's Jerkcity seems apropos:
http://jerkcity.com/jerkcity3820.gif [jerkcity.com]
Hypocrites (Score:3, Informative)
I wouldn't take advice on good taste from them.
The typeface isn't the problem (Score:4, Interesting)
The typeface isn't the problem. In fact, I rather like it. It is a well-designed typeface, very readable, and appropriate for playful images - projects like children's books, comic books, children's toys and clothing, and the like. You know. its intended purpose.
The problem is, the typeface (a "typeface" is an outline/shape - it's not a "font" until it has size and weight, kerning, etc. attributed to it) has become used for things where it is completely inappropriate: the main text in "professional"[sic] web sites, books, official documents, advertisements, and so forth.
I use the typeface on occasion - but only where it's appropriate. In nearly every case where I see Comic Sans used, Helvetica or Arial or even Verdana would be far more appropriate. I won't stop using the Comic Sans typeface where it is appropriate (dialog for comic/clip art/line art images/strips, for example) but I have never nor would I ever plaster it all over the place.
No one typeface is intended to be used for all circumstances. The type of user who would use Comic Sans in a professional document is the same kind of "designer"[sic] who would mix typefaces from four or five (or more) different font families in a single document; you know, as if they were creating examples of how NOT to use typefaces.
Just as with guns, the problem isn't fonts; the problem is people.
Oh, and you're curious about my nit-picking about "font" vs. "typeface?" I'm not in the wrong here. See:
http://www.webopedia.com/quick_ref/fonts.asp [webopedia.com]
http://www.aiga.org/content.cfm/theyre-not-fonts [aiga.org]
http://desktoppub.about.com/b/2005/05/02/2-minute-tutorial-font-vs-typeface.htm [about.com]
http://www.publish.com/c/a/Graphics-Tools/Font-vs-typeface/ [publish.com]
http://fontfeed.com/archives/font-or-typeface/ [fontfeed.com]
Remember when HTML had fonts? (Score:5, Interesting)
In early versions of Netscape, you could link to a remote font of your own choosing. [webdeveloper.com] The font-copyright people were up in arms about this, Microsoft didn't implement it in IE, and it was taken out of Netscape. That's why fonts on the web suck so much. You're either stuck with the lowest common denominator of fonts (Times Roman, Arial, Courier, or Comic Sans MS), or you can put a font into an image, which is silly but standard practice.
That's how we got into this mess.
Here's an example of a page that uses downloadable fonts. [unh.edu] Unless you have a very old browser, it will look ugly. There's a more recent attempt to work around the problem with Flash. [mikeindustries.com] Wrong answer.
Re:Remember when HTML had fonts? (Score:5, Informative)
So what do you use instead? (Score:3)
It's easy to bitch about Comic Sans, harder to find a replacement. What have you got that's informal, open, and legible down to six-point?
None of the linked sites has anything to offer beyond whining about Microsoft's monopoly on font choices. I suspect it would be more acceptable if Apple took it, changed a few bits and called it "Different Sans".
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
A much worse example (Score:5, Funny)
Has its uses, but... (Score:3, Interesting)
When I came into my webmaster job a few years ago, I found the entire site was done with Comic Sans. We're an academic unit, so this was just not appropriate for the site. It took a while to clear it all up because it was a large site even back then, plus there was no single way my predecessor had chosen to implement the fonts - although there were a lot of "<font face=..." tags.
You might argue that Comic Sans has its place; but I learned to hate it with a passion those first few days. (As an aside - fixing all that did finally motivate me to learn regexps)
It was amazing how simply cleaning out that one silly font changed the site. I kept getting compliments from the faculty - "looks like now we have a REAL webmaster!" - just because I removed Comic Sans.
Helvetica (Score:4, Informative)
I never thought a font could be so interesting...
Comic Sans has a unique place-Informal Sans (Score:4, Insightful)
I feel that it's biggest drawback is it's name. (If you don't think a name can hurt you, try to tell someone to use GIMP, or even worse, Qtpfsgui.) If Comic Sans had been called Informal Sans I believe that there would be much less angst over it.
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
If you want to be informal, why not just say "fuck?"
Re: (Score:2, Informative)
Re: (Score:2)
"Well of course this is... Who cares?"
Anyone who's thinking, "Why does this matter?" needs to see this video and the Absolut vodka logo in comic sans.
And why was this moderated off topic? Seeing how the article on WSJ was %50 about bancomicsans, this is extremely relevent.