Southwest Declares Kevin Smith Too Fat To Fly 940
theodp writes "Kevin Smith is not a happy Southwest customer. The director was thrown off a flight from Oakland to Burbank, after being deemed too fat to fly. He later wound up on another Southwest flight, but has declared It's On and taken his rants to Twitter. 'Dear @SouthwestAir — I know I'm fat, but was Captain Leysath really justified in throwing me off a flight for which I was already seated?' he began. He also let the airline know he'd made it to his destination. 'Hey @SouthwestAir! I've landed in Burbank. Don't worry: wall of the plane was opened & I was airlifted out while Richard Simmons supervised.'"
Before the dust settles (Score:5, Funny)
I'll bet Southwest will wish he really was Silent Bob.
Re:Before the dust settles (Score:5, Informative)
Perhaps.
Here's their blog response: http://www.blogsouthwest.com/blog/not-so-silent-bob
Re:Before the dust settles (Score:4, Informative)
Did blogsouthwest just get slashdotted?
Re:Before the dust settles (Score:5, Informative)
Many of you reached out to us via Twitter last night and today regarding a situation a Customer Twittered about that occurred on a Southwest flight. It is not our customary method of Customer Relations to be so public in how we work through these situations, but with so many people involved in the occurrence, you also should be involved in the solution. First and foremost, to Mr. Smith; we would like to echo our Tweets and again offer our heartfelt apologies to you. We are sincerely sorry for your travel experience on Southwest Airlines.
As soon as we saw the first Tweet from Mr. Smith, we contacted him personally to apologize for his experience and to address his concerns on both Twitter and with a personal phone call. Since the situation has received a lot of public attention, we'd like to take the opportunity to address a few of the specifics here as well. Mr. Smith originally purchased two Southwest seats on a flight from Oakland to Burbank - as he's been known to do when traveling on Southwest. He decided to change his plans and board an earlier flight to Burbank, which technically means flying standby. As you may know, airlines are not able to clear standby passengers until all Customers are boarded. When the time came to board Mr. Smith, we had only a single seat available for him to occupy. Our pilots are responsible for the Safety and comfort of all Customers on the aircraft and therefore, made the determination that Mr. Smith needed more than one seat to complete his flight. Our Employees explained why the decision was made, accommodated Mr. Smith on a later flight, and issued him a $100 Southwest travel voucher for his inconvenience.
You've read about these situations before. Southwest instituted our Customer of Size policy more than 25 years ago. The policy requires passengers that can not fit safely and comfortably in one seat to purchase an additional seat while traveling. This policy is not unique to Southwest Airlines and it is not a revenue generator. Most, if not all, carriers have similar policies, but unique to Southwest is the refunding of the second seat purchased (if the flight does not oversell) which is greater than any revenue made (full policy can be found here). The spirit of this policy is based solely on Customer comfort and Safety. As a Company committed to serving our Customers in Safety and comfort, we feel the definitive boundary between seats is the armrest. If a Customer cannot comfortably lower the armrest and infringes on a portion of another seat, a Customer seated adjacent would be very uncomfortable and a timely exit from the aircraft in the event of an emergency might be compromised if we allow a cramped, restricted seating arrangement.
Re:Before the dust settles (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Before the dust settles (Score:5, Insightful)
As a traveler I hare airlines. They are a bunch of snivelling money grubbing slime balls who would never give anyone an inch more room than they paid for in blood.
The main reason airlines never give 'anyone an inch' is because their profit margins are unbelievably small - They transport thousands a day. An inch here and inch there, and suddenly they're bankrupt.
This happens largely because airline passengers day to day often have little brand loyalty. They simply shop for the cheapest fare.
Re:Before the dust settles (Score:5, Insightful)
If a company wants my loyalty, they have to be loyal to me. Pretending to give a shit when my luggage goes missing or waiving the cost of one of those padded sleeping goggle whatchamacallits instead of carrying on like I'm trying to screw them out of the 2c those things cost would go a long way
Right, but you're the exception, not the rule. Airline customers *claim* they'd pay more for a fare that included things like free eyemasks and pretzels, but then when the time comes to book a ticket they pick the airline with the cheapest fare. Airlines have, in the past, tried to be 'loyal to you' and have learned it gets them nowhere, at least in the USA and Canada. Customers aren't interested in good service, they're interested in getting where they're going on the cheap, pure and simple - And with respect to service, passengers have reaped what they've sown. Compared to 20 years ago, airline fares are dramatically cheaper, and service is dramatically worse. Coincidence? I think not...
Re:Before the dust settles (Score:4, Informative)
Slashdotted - here's the text (Score:3, Informative)
Here's the text:
Not So Silent Bob
Sun, 02/14/2010 - 14:57 — Christi Day
Many of you reached out to us via Twitter last night and today regarding a situation a Customer Twittered about that occurred on a Southwest flight. It is not our customary method of Customer Relations to be so public in how we work through these situations, but with so many people involved in the occurrence, you also should be involved in the solution. First and foremost, to Mr. Smith; we would like to echo our Tweets and again of
Customer of Size? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Customer of Size? (Score:4, Insightful)
At work they had a big article about "differently abled persons" recently. I just don't get it? How is it derogatory to call somebody disabled? Am I "differently abled" if I can juggle?
There is no need to use slurs like "fatass" or whatever. You can just call them overweight, or oversized - kind of like luggage. It is hardly unusual to charge a different rate when shipping a piano when compared to shipping a book. Will amazon.com start a "products of size" shipping policy soon?
Re:Customer of Size? (Score:5, Insightful)
I saw a job offer that said, in the small print, something along the lines of: "We are committed in our hiring and operating practises not to discriminate on the basis of gender, religion, race, ethnicity, or ability."
We can see what they wanted to say: They wanted to say "disability" (which itself would read strangely except that by now it has taken on a particular meaning in these situations which is broadly recognised), but because that word is not politically correct they were brought into saying something which reads as if it were patently absurd: That they actually don't take the abilities of the applicants into consideration when they hire. So...what, they cut open a bird and look at the entrails for divine signs?
Much like how every university is now fully committed to diversity, which reads strange every time I see some such statement on the matter.
Re:Customer of Size? (Score:5, Insightful)
I've got to agree here, even though I'm not at all a fan of Southwest after my own recent experiences with them. First off, there's no guarantees when you're flying standby that you'll get any seats. No room really to complain if you don't. In this guy's case, however, he needs two seats. I'm entirely with that, and it applies in this case-he takes up both the space and the weight of at least two passengers.
If you are severely obese, there will be certain physical limitations as to what you can do. If you would prefer not to have those limitations, your option is to lose the weight. Even those with legitimate medical conditions can do so under a doctor's supervision, and generally the "medical condition" is "Eats too much, exercises too little".
It is of course one's decision whether to continue to overeat and not exercise, but it is then one's responsibility to live with the consequences of that decision. If you don't want the limitations that come with being fat, get to work on losing the weight. If you'd rather not, then yes, you need to buy two seats if that's what it takes to accommodate you. I wish more places would work up the nerve to plainly state that you need to buy as many seats as you overflow into.
Re:Customer of Size? (Score:4, Insightful)
You're saying that a hundred pounds of excess blubber deposited through years of over-eating is equivalent to being born with a different skin colour? Now I've heard everything...
Seriously, stop making excuses for people's poor lifestyle choices. I'm with Southwest on this one.
A fat person is not accessing the same services, they're taking up two seats and therefore twice the services. Why should healthy people be crushed or financially penalised because some fat bastard won't put down the cake? Maybe it's foreseeable that Americans will just have to pay more to fly than the rest of the world.
Thank God I don't live in Canada, so don't have to pay extra so some salad-dodger can get an extra seat for free. For the record, I'm overweight but fit in plane seats just fine. This Kevin Smith fellow must be a real land whale.
Re:Customer of Size? (Score:4, Insightful)
Ugh. The glib "just lose the weight" pseudo-argument. Yeah sure, all fat people are fat by choice, and, with a little elbow grease, could lose weight and be normal like everyone else.
Ah, the glib "all fat people are fat because of hormonal imbalance" pseudo-argument. Despite that fact that 2/3rds of adults in the US are overweight and the kind of hormone imbalances that cause massive weight gain occur in less than 2% of the population.
Honestly, it isn't that hard for 98% of people to lose weight, eat less and, optionally, excersise more. And yes, that means writing down what you eat so you can actually track it. Yes, that means weighing or measuring your food before you cook it so you know how much there is. Yes, that means sticking with it over the course of atleast several months. In my opinion, diligently keeping a food diary is the only way to consistently lose weight. If you're honest about filling it out and you have the will power to keep the calorie count at or below your target, it's almost impossible not to lose weight.
Re:Customer of Size? (Score:4, Informative)
insightful, really?
you certainly can call someone a "fatass". there is no law against it. you can call someone anything you want, but in return someone might call you an "asshole", and they might be right.
is there a line between political correctness and politeness? or do you think we need to get rid of that too?
and fwiw, I agree, smith wasn't exactly forthcoming with the details of the case (he was switching flights, only single seat available, etc) and SW has acquitted themselves pretty well from a PR perspective. i think the man just got a little stung by a humiliating experience and wanted to rant a little.
Re:Customer of Size? (Score:4, Funny)
"and does this mean fat people have a larger carbon footprint???"
No. Just deeper.
Re:Slashdotted - here's the text (Score:4, Informative)
Well that pretty much deflates the whole issue. Plus Southwest's policy is pretty generous, and giving him $100 because he couldn't get a seat on standby was totally unnecessary.
I was skeptical about the headline anyway. If you can't be accommodated safely due to your size, then you cannot fly. There's no outrage fuel here.
Re:Slashdotted - here's the text (Score:5, Interesting)
Boycott? I am more likely to fly with them now I realise that I am less likely to have someone like him squeezed into the seat next to me.
Re:Slashdotted - here's the text (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Slashdotted - here's the text (Score:5, Interesting)
I've seen this policy applied before by Continental. A kid of about 17 years old was forced to buy a 2nd ticket. Or rather was forced to call the mother of his friend who had purchased his tickets for him to make her buy another ticket. He told me this as the 2 of us were sitting in the 3-seat row of the plane as his way of letting me know I wouldn't have to worry about someone taking the middle seat because he paid for it. He was quite embarrassed.
I personally am a bigger dude, but not that big, so I was relieved we were going to have some extra space.
Then Continental seated a deadheading pilot from another airline in that empty seat. For free. And the kid next to him was able, barely, to lower the arm rest.
The kid was too embarrassed to speak up for himself. So I mentioned it to both the pilot as well as the Continental flight attendant for our section. The pilot's reaction? "I dunno, not my call". The stewardess? Pretty much no response at all.
I've seen a similar case as well where the person bought 2 seats and someone on standby was given their seat. In that case the airline refunded their money and let the person on standby take the seat. Which means the airline wasn't caring at all about the safety of anyone, they just wanted their cash.
The airline policies are invoked willy-nilly at THEIR convenience without a care for the injury caused. The policies would be understandable if they were enforced justly and equally, but they do not. If you buy 2 seats then the flight attendants should not be able to reassign you. I could name plenty of other policies that get applied unfairly too, like luggage sizes, after 13 years of business travel ... but they would get so mind-numbing that it's just not worth it.
Re:Before the dust settles (Score:5, Funny)
Twitter: "For people too fat to fly or type more than 140 characters."
I have sat next to these guys. (Score:3, Insightful)
Even if they can get their butts between the armrests, the rest of them overflows into the next seat.
They should have required him to buy two seats, since he takes up two seats and twice the gas as a normal person.
Re:I have sat next to these guys. (Score:5, Insightful)
They should kick the people off who are jerks, to smell, too. Those are even more offensive
Re:I have sat next to these guys. (Score:4, Informative)
And the women who wear way too much perfume or hairspray and make my eyes water the entire trip.
Re:I have sat next to these guys. (Score:5, Insightful)
And the women who wear way too much perfume or hairspray and make my eyes water the entire trip.
And the dialect of some of the southerners is just appalling.
And the way the chinese people talk to each other just sounds annoying and I can't even think when they are talking!
And the old people constantly talking about what they ate just kills me.
And the smell of baby powder on the baby next to me is really gonna ruin my meal.
And the mothers breast feeding babies just grosses me out.
And the midgets being seated with the rest of us is just ridiculous.
And the dreadlocks on that rasta guy is disgusting.
And that kid with a cold is ridiculous and he should not be flying with me!
------------ (that was all sarcasm)
Ever stop to think that someone doesn't like you, either? Maybe they don't always feel the need to tell you why you're bugging them, but I'm sure there are plenty of 'reasons' to be overly sensitive over.
I'm not saying you complained about the kid with a cold, but I would bet people that have been upset about it have taken flights with contagious diseases of their own as well.
Life isn't so shitty if you learn to like it.
Re:I have sat next to these guys. (Score:5, Insightful)
IIRC, airline regulations require that a passenger be in THEIR seat. If you're sitting next to a morbidly obese person, and they annoy you, just ask them to stay in their space. If they cannot, and it bothers you a lot, call a stewardess and explain that you understand your rights, and wish her to enforce them. At this point, the person who cannot remain in their seat will either be assigned a new one or forced to deplane. If you're fat, and upset by this--suck it up. You did not pay for the space the other passenger is in. THEY did.
C//
Re:I have sat next to these guys. (Score:4, Informative)
While I shall assume you are attempting to be humorous, the parlance of the English language allows the use of "their" for the singular gender-neutral possessive.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Average weight is over 190 lbs (http://usgovinfo.about.com/od/healthcare/a/tallbutfat.htm). In places like Mississippi (1/3rd of the population is obese) it is likely near 220.
So throwing him off the plane seems pointed for whatever reason. Were he 350 or 400 then I'd get it.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Re:I have sat next to these guys. (Score:5, Informative)
I think he's closer to 350. He even says about himself in an interview:
"I'm really, really fat right now. Fattest I've ever been. I broke a toilet. That's how heavy I am. I can't take all the credit — that was an old toilet and a very waterlogged wall — but my size took that toilet down."
Apparently (does anyone RTFA!?) he usually buys two seats when flying SWA, anyway - so he admits it's a problem. In this case he tried to take an earlier flight standby, and they didn't have two seats available. So SWA put him on the next flight that did. I don't see the problem...
Re:I have sat next to these guys. (Score:4, Informative)
Re:I have sat next to these guys. (Score:4, Insightful)
This will take quite some time to take off.
Even when there are proper justifications for discrimination, the feel-gooders will still fight for the right for everyone to be treated equally, despite not being equal.
Re: (Score:3)
Even if they can get their butts between the armrests, the rest of them overflows into the next seat.
And that's exactly what Southwest requires. He could certainly have afforded the second ticket. From the LA Times:
Southwest Airlines measures whether a customers too large to fly based on the passenger's ability to lower both armrests while sitting on the plane. If the passenger cannot lower one or both armrests, the carrier typically requires the passenger to purchase an additional seat or make arrangements on other flights that may accommodate for extra space.
So why didn't he?
There is a segment of the hideously obese population that thinks there is nothing wrong with it, and society should accept it. That's fine for the most part, but clearly if a fat guy takes up two seats, the fat guy should pay for two seats. And THIS fat guy can certainly afford it.
Re:I have sat next to these guys. (Score:4, Insightful)
So why didn't he?
Well, if you'd read the article (I know, slashdot, why would you read the article?) you'd know that he did buy an additional seat. But when he asked to be flown out on an earlier flight, you go onto standby. And *that* flight only had one spare seat available, so he tried to take it.
So it's not that he thinks he's hideously obese and society should accept it.
Look at his tweets. He's pissed that they waited until he was in the seat, to tell him "sorry, you need the second seat after all"
Re:I have sat next to these guys. (Score:4, Insightful)
Well, if you'd read the article (I know, slashdot, why would you read the article?) you'd know that he did buy an additional seat. But when he asked to be flown out on an earlier flight, you go onto standby. And *that* flight only had one spare seat available, so he tried to take it.
So in fact he *DIDN'T* have a second ticket for the flight he *actually* took. SO WHAT IS HE BITCHING ABOUT?
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
BTW! If you need a bigger seat I wouldn't suggest coach, it is meant to be cheap and not comfortable. If you feel your size isn't met then move up a class, I can guarantee you will find a seat that fits you. And YES, this is perfectly fair that you pay more for more space.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
What about those of us who are tall simply due to genetics? The seats in airplanes don't fit very well when one is 6'7" (2m). Of course, one could say this shouldn't matter, excessive height is not a choice and obesity is often not a choice or a failure of will, and thus both should be considered disabilities. In the US and under the Americans with Disabilities Act, accommodations MUST be offered at no additional charge for those with disabilities at public facilities. Allowing an airline to charge some
Re:I have sat next to these guys. (Score:4, Interesting)
but every once in a while I get some asshole who not only reclines it, but slams it back, right on my knees.
I find pushing it back upright, perhaps with the occasional irritated punch, always works.
Maybe it's the look on my face whenever anybody actually turns around to complain..
Re:I have sat next to these guys. (Score:5, Insightful)
I find pushing it back upright, perhaps with the occasional irritated punch, always works.
Maybe it's the look on my face whenever anybody actually turns around to complain..
I support this 100%. Mastering a proper scowl is a must for minimizing verbal garbage.
Re:And my 6 years old son takes 1/5th of the gas (Score:4, Insightful)
Or just charge by weight.
Re:And my 6 years old son takes 1/5th of the gas (Score:5, Insightful)
If you're going to charge the fat folks extra, you gotta give the rest of us the price break on kids' tickets.
Well, what it comes down to is they can only sell whole seats. Your 6 year old might only need half a seat, but that still means he's taking up the whole seat - they can't sell the other half seat to someone else. A fat guy might prefer to buy 1.5 seats, but that isn't an option: he has to buy 2 seats, and that second seat is being taken away from another paying customer.
On the other hand, there's a possible solution: seat the kid who isn't using half of his seat next to the fat guy who needs an extra half seat. But in order to accurately bill everyone for the fractional seats they use, the airline would have to know everyone's measurements ahead of time (not just weight, because bulk is what really matters).
Re:And my 6 years old son takes 1/5th of the gas (Score:5, Funny)
What if the fat bastard tries to eat your kid?
Then he would have to pay extra on the food portion of his ticket. And your kid would get a corresponding discount.
Re:And my 6 years old son takes 1/5th of the gas (Score:5, Informative)
You can't have it both ways. If you're going to charge the fat folks extra, you gotta give the rest of us the price break on kids' tickets.
It's simple: Airlines don't sell distance per gas consumed. They sell seats. People are not packages. You can't fly more of them in a plane if they weight less in a linear manner. One seat is the minimum allocation unit you can buy. Whether you use the whole seat just put your purse on it is not their business. You're paying for it if you're going to use it. If you're so fat that you cannot fit into the single smallest allocation unit they provide, you will have to purchase two of them (or upgrade to a higher class with bigger seats).
Re:And my 6 years old son takes 1/5th of the gas (Score:4, Insightful)
Actually they sell freight space and the meat they transport is the least profitable as it requires to be heated and fed in a pressurised cabin (it also complains) where as most other freight can happily sit in an unpressurised hold.
The reason airlines in the US started charging for baggage is to dissuade you from bringing more of it (you should have figured this part out already). Now most people assume that this is to cut down on weight, wrong. Airlines can sell the space they freed up to logistics companies who want to move small sized parcels to other parts of the country or world rapidly. This appears cheaper but has a much higher rate of return per KG and is more steady and less problematic then the meat transportation business.
Budget Airlines like Tiger, Air Asia and Ryan Air make all of their money on freight, the passenger service is only expected to break even.
Re:I have sat next to these guys. (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:I have sat next to these guys. (Score:5, Insightful)
Two things.
First, it can't be all genetic. People living in the US aren't native americans for the most part, they came for a large part from Europe, not so long ago. They shouldn't have wildly different genetics, yet you're going to find a lot more fat people in the US than in Europe.
What the US has that is considerably different is the food and the layout of the cities. When I came to the US I was quite amazed at the rather insane serving sizes. An US "normal" sized ice cream is something I simply couldn't finish eating. The idea of a restaurant serving enough food that you'd ask for a box to take it home was completely alien to me before visiting the US. Getting the drinks refilled constantly was another new thing.
Also, in Europe you can, and usually do walk to places. Even if you have a car, there is a small grocery store somewhere nearby you can walk to when you find you don't have enough milk, and not far enough to actually bother getting into the car. In the parts of the US I've been to, however, it seems impossible to do that as the streets aren't made for it.
Second, no matter what kind of metabolism you have, you can't violate the conservation of energy. If you use enough energy, or eat less than you consume, you will HAVE to get slimmer, eventually. Your body can't create additional mass out of nowhere, or produce energy to keep you going out of nothing.
Re:I have sat next to these guys. (Score:4, Insightful)
I don't deny that there may be a genetic component. But that doesn't explain the disparity between the US and Europe, especially when most people living in the US are descendants of Europeans and shouldn't be that different genetically speaking.
For it to be a genetical difference over so little time there would have to be something that consistently selected for the propensity to obesity over so little time. But that seems rather illogical, because with the harsh conditions early Americans had to endure, the propensity to have such an inefficient energy usage as to die of hunger while remaining fat should have been selected against, not for.
Lack of comprehension here. When speaking of calories in nutrition, it refers to the amount of energy a human body extracts from food. What comes out of your other end isn't included in that measure. For humans, celery has negative calories, because the body expends more energy trying to extract something from it than it ends up receiving. A rabbit probably gains from it, though.
Sure there are. Not every single day of course, but on average. People with a disposition to staying skinny are those whose bodies demand just enough or a bit too little food, and eat that much instead of gorging on it every day. That's what hunger is for.
No, at a point you "hit the wall", due to exhaustion of glycogen, and buildup of lactic acid.
Please provide examples. Humans can last a long time without food. You could probably go weeks without it. A human couldn't possibly exist that long on stored glucose/glycogen. Glucose is very short term, and glycogen can be exhausted with intensive exercise in a few hours. After that energy has to come from somewhere.
Re:I have sat next to these guys. (Score:5, Funny)
News for Nerds, Stuff that Matters (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:News for Nerds, Stuff that Matters (Score:5, Funny)
I still think its awesome, but let's keep this next celebrity rivalry off of slashdot. Slashdot didn't cover trump vs o'donnel, and it doesn't cover paris hilton, so while Kevin Smith is a nerd celeb, let's not report on every twitter update in this matter? Mmmkay?
It's an excuse for a massive flamewar between the obese nerds munching on pizza and the excessively skinny nerds sucking down sugar-free caffeine drinks. Anything to take our minds off the fact that it is February 14th again and Natalie Portman still hasn't turned up at our door covered in hot grits and bearing a court order reversing the previous decision and allowing us to communicate with her again.... sigh.....
I think this is probably wrong and demented...... (Score:4, Funny)
SWA is aware, dealing w/ it (Score:4, Informative)
I've read the tweets all night from @thatkevinsmith - He'll be getting a call at home from our Customer Relations VP tonight.
So why is this posted as a story on /.?
Re:SWA is aware, dealing w/ it (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:SWA is aware, dealing w/ it (Score:5, Insightful)
The only reason they're working to resolve it is because of Kevin Smith. If it was a nobody with no platform to mention this from, Southwest would've cared much less.
Actually, I suspect it's mostly because it's on Twitter that they reacted at all. Random average Joes have had similar responses from other corporations as well. They tend to be scared to death of bad publicity and Twitter especially seems to make them nervous.
Of course, the fact that it's a celebrity, however minor (sorry Kevin; I love your films but ...) on Twitter doesn't exactly hurt.
Know what *really* bugs me? (Score:5, Insightful)
</rant>
Southwest Airlines "Customer of Size" Q&A (Score:5, Informative)
According to http://www.southwest.com/travel_center/cos_qa.html [southwest.com]
It sounds like the determination is made if you can not fit within the confines of a standard seat with the arm rests down on both sides. I wonder if they don't have a test airplane seat you can sit in before hand at the terminal before trying to board or set of measurements you can take at home before buying your ticket/boarding to reduce the potential for embarrassment of being forced off the plane once you try to seat onboard.
From the link above:
"I am a large person and use a seatbelt extension, but I fit in one aircraft seat. Do I have to purchase two seats? Our policy does not focus on weight, and the seatbelt extension is not the determining factor. We use the ability to lower the armrests as the gauge, as the armrests are truly the definitive boundary between each seat."
Another interesting tidibt from the link:
Are all overweight people subject to the policy?
Many Americans are "overweight" or "clinically obese." A number of overweight or obese people occupy only one seat. In fact, many Customers may use a seatbelt extension but occupy only one seat, and these Customers would not be asked to reserve a second seat. If a Customer cannot lower the armrest (and is unable to comfortably travel with it in the down position), he/she is required to pay for the additional seat occupied. Again, we will offer a refund if the flight does not oversell.
Re:Southwest Airlines "Customer of Size" Q&A (Score:4, Informative)
Our policy does not focus on weight, and the seatbelt extension is not the determining factor. We use the ability to lower the armrests as the gauge, as the armrests are truly the definitive boundary between each seat.
From: TFA Link [popeater.com]
"why wait til my bag is up, and I'm seated WITH ARM RESTS DOWN. In front of a packed plane with a bunch of folks who'd already I.d.ed me as 'Silent Bob,"
Irrelevant of all the other slashdot members complaining that "being fat is disgusting", the fact remains that Southwest Airlines went against their OWN policies, and they didn't go about this in the right way at all. If he was already seated comfortably, wasn't blocking the aisle and no other customers complained, then what the hell is their problem?!
Here's what really happened ... (Score:5, Funny)
Here's what really happened.
The pilot, a registered Republican, woke up from his nap (pilots cat-nap as much as they can because of the new budget-saving schedules), saw the guy, and mistook him for Michael Moore.
Yuh Huh (Score:5, Interesting)
If you take up two seats, pay for two seats. And not one here and one 4 aisles back.
Re:Yuh Huh (Score:4, Informative)
I wish I could mod you up. I was squished against a window by some fat guy on my way into Dallas on southwest, and of course it had all kinds of storm delays. The guy was sweaty, smelly, and not at all concerned about suffocating me. I could have only wished the guy was as fat as Smith. This guy barely fit in his seat belt with an extra seat belt to extend it.
Re:Yuh Huh (Score:5, Funny)
This is what elbows are for. You'd be amazed how much smaller some people become after the eighth 'Sorry, was that you?'
Kevin Smith is not the problem. (Score:4, Insightful)
Airlines have overcrammed more seats into each plane than the original designers would have believed possible. When people complain, they respond with "You're freakishly tall," or "You're mbidly obese," when the real answer is "The airlines are so greedy they're cramming so many people into their cargo hold it would make a slave trader of old boggle."
My 5'2", 100lb mother-in-law complains that they've made the seats too small to be comfortable, and she's been flying for 50 years. Do we really think the problem is Kevin Smith is too husky?
How about this for an answer? Let's make airline seats the same size and legroom as movie theater seats and see if the problem goes away.
Re:Kevin Smith is not the problem. (Score:5, Insightful)
How about this for an answer? Let's make airline seats the same size and legroom as movie theater seats and see if the problem goes away.
You already have this option. It's called first class.
People have chosen this world of crammed airlines, because people will choose the airline that's $1 cheaper than the other guy. Very few people use any other factor as a consideration. They want cheap flights, and that's exactly what they have.
Re:Kevin Smith is not the problem. (Score:5, Informative)
I am 6'1" and weigh 195 pounds, and I call bullshit on that claim.
I have almost 2 million miles on United, 300K on American, and a bunch on several others.
Because of my status I rarely fly coach anymore, but I still get stuck in the goat locker when there is no other choice, and while it is by far from spacious it is not that bad.
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Your words disgust me. Not only because they are not true, but some people just have big bones.
All the best,
Me
Re:That's what you get (Score:5, Informative)
some people just have big bones.
And then some people are just fat.
Re:That's what you get (Score:5, Insightful)
You seem to want First Class elbow room at steerage prices. For that you can't blame fat folks, you can blame your cheapness or poorness.
No, we can blame the really fat guy encroaching onto our seat. The seat that we paid for. The seat that would be fine if it weren't for the guy next to us being really overweight. Airline seats are a certain size. In economy they're pretty small because fares are so damn cheap. Why the hell should I have to pay for a first class seat just to get the elbow room I deserve in economy? This isn't about being poor or being cheap, it's about someone being too fucking big to fit in an economy seat. Let the fat guy spend the cash on a bigger seat in first class. How dare you say it's my responsibility to pay extra cash to accomodate the obesity of someone else. If anyone is being too cheap/poor in this situation it's the fat guy who won't spring for the extra seat that he needs, or one larger seat in a higher class.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
If he was really too fat to fly they never should have sold him a ticket.
And they'd better damn well have given him a full refund or a free transfer or it's fraud.
Re:Welp, that's it (Score:5, Insightful)
If he was really too fat to fly they never should have sold him a ticket.
how exactly is the airline supposed to know he is too fat when they sell the ticket? Most airlines sell their tickets online without ever seeing the person.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
how exactly is the airline supposed to know he is too fat when they sell the ticket? Most airlines sell their tickets online without ever seeing the person.
Well, I'm no fan of sitting next to fatties either, but maybe they should have decided *before* they let him board the plane?
Like, when I was a kid at amusement parks, they had signs, "you must be this tall to get on this ride."
Why don't they have similar constructions at airports that say, "you must be skinny enough to fit through this to get on this plane" . . . ?
That would save everyone some grief later on.
Re:Welp, that's it (Score:5, Funny)
They do. They're called doors.
Re:Welp, that's it (Score:5, Interesting)
I was flying from Newark to SanFran. And I was in the last row. Ahead of me were three ladies, and these ladies were HUGE! The interesting part was that these three ladies all had to sit in the same row. They complained and said that they would like new seats. The stewardesses in their nicest voice said, "sorry but this flight is full and you will have to sit in your assigned seats."
When the ladies had to sit they moved up all of the armrests and honest to goodness their butts and bodies melted into one another! Needless to say most people around those ladies were relieved that they did not have to endure one those ladies sitting beside them.
I thought it was pretty efficient for Delta to say, "hey you want to be fat, go for it, its a free country. But while we are at it we are going to put you beside each other..."
Re:Welp, that's it (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Welp, that's it (Score:5, Insightful)
My guess is that weight isn't the issue, it's volume size and overflow into adjacent seats. Could a fat man fly if he didn't have any checked bags? Could a high density, heavily muscled, guy get kicked off because he weighs too much but is compact enough to not overflow the seat? If it is weight dependent, couldn't a fat man pay the extra $10 in fuel?.. or reduce his baggage weight? I think it has to do with seat overflow.. which is related to weight but more about volume.
Re:Welp, that's it (Score:5, Insightful)
When I found out, I complained to the QANTAS stewardess, and she said that I could move seats later. Quite hard on a full plane.
you know how uncomfortable it is having a seat rest firmly wedged in your back for 15 hours?
Sorry people of carriage, but if your caboose cannot fit into the seat to the point where you need to lift your armrest, you simply need to buy another god damned seat.
Re:Welp, that's it (Score:5, Interesting)
Yep. I've been known to demand that the person next to me leave the armrest down, and called the flight attendant to enforce it. There is no requirement that passengers be allowed to put armrests up during a flight if the adjacent passenger does not wish to. I find that mentioning "inappropriate physical contact" with a hint of sexual harassment gets the airline's staff's attention.
Re:Welp, that's it (Score:5, Interesting)
Numerous airplanes (except the small ones) have varying sized seats (even in coach) - just like many movie theaters.
Huh? What plane and what theater? I've never seen either!
I spent a nice 11 hour flight across the Pacific with a morbidly obese Singaporean guy going home after a comic con (he owned a comic book store). His arm was all the way into the middle of my chest, and his upper fat roll engulfed the arm rest. I couldn't believe that he was allowed on with one seat. I asked a sky waitress if there was anything we could do, but the plane was full and said I'd have to take another flight if I didn't like my seat.
I would have to take another flight because the fatass next to me was taking up half of my seat!
I just pounded Chivas Regal throughout the trip so I wouldn't care so much.
As I did, I started chatting with him. He was a really nice guy, although way too otaku for my tastes. It made it harder for me to wish death upon him, so I've decided to instead wish death upon United Airlines.
This is a serious problem and needs to be addressed as a matter of course. I payed full price for half a seat!
Re:Welp, that's it (Score:4, Funny)
Of course it's about overflow, and those of us who take care not to be grossly fat fucks shouldn't have to be victims of the hambeast in the next seat.
No sympathy here. If you don't fit an airline seat, cargo net your fat disgusting ass to a pallet and go air freight.
Couchslug? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Welp, that's it (Score:5, Funny)
Romanes eunt domus!
Re:Welp, that's it (Score:5, Informative)
Centurion: What's this, then? "Romanes eunt domus"? People called Romanes, they go, the house?
Brian: It says, "Romans go home. "
Centurion: No it doesn't ! What's the latin for "Roman"? Come on, come on !
Brian: Er, "Romanus" !
Centurion: Vocative plural of "Romanus" is?
Brian: Er, er, "Romani" !
Centurion: [Writes "Romani" over Brian's graffiti] "Eunt"? What is "eunt"? Conjugate the verb, "to go" !
Brian: Er, "Ire". Er, "eo", "is", "it", "imus", "itis", "eunt".
Centurion: So, "eunt" is...?
Brian: Third person plural present indicative, "they go".
Centurion: But, "Romans, go home" is an order. So you must use...?
[He twists Brian's ear]
Brian: Aaagh ! The imperative !
Centurion: Which is...?
Brian: Aaaagh ! Er, er, "i" !
Centurion: How many Romans?
Brian: Aaaaagh ! Plural, plural, er, "ite" !
Centurion: [Writes "ite"] "Domus"? Nominative? "Go home" is motion towards, isn't it?
Brian: Dative !
[the Centurion holds a sword to his throat]
Brian: Aaagh ! Not the dative, not the dative ! Er, er, accusative, "Domum" !
Centurion: But "Domus" takes the locative, which is...?
Brian: Er, "Domum" !
Centurion: [Writes "Domum"] Understand? Now, write it out a hundred times.
Brian: Yes sir. Thank you, sir. Hail Caesar, sir.
Centurion: Hail Caesar ! And if it's not done by sunrise, I'll cut your balls off.
Re:Welp, that's it (Score:5, Funny)
... and now for something completely different!
You awake to find yourself on a Southwest flight out of Oakland. It is pitch black.
You are likely to the eaten by Kevin Smith.
Re:Welp, that's it (Score:4, Interesting)
If he was really too fat to fly they never should have sold him a ticket.
I understand the sentiment, but how would you implement that? Are you going to make people weigh in before they can buy a ticket? Going to rely on self reporting?
Re:Welp, that's it (Score:5, Insightful)
If he was really too fat to fly they never should have sold him a ticket.
I understand the sentiment, but how would you implement that? Are you going to make people weigh in before they can buy a ticket? Going to rely on self reporting?
I've always thought that people should be counted in the weight allowance instead of just luggage. A bit porky like me? You get to bring less stuff (or pay more for the same stuff). Properly obese? You get even less. That and people who are for too large to fit in a single seat (with people to their sides being comfortable too) should be made to purchase the double seat they need.
Of course there are logistical complications to this. Firstly there is weight distribution between the passenger cabin and luggage hold which may affect the handling of the craft if most of the passengers are porkies with little luggage. And there is the issue of defining what constitutes too big for one seat. And finally there will be the people who cry like babies and moan that "it isn't my fault" - well it might not be (in which case get a medical cert and we'll consider some extra compassion) but it isn't the airline's fault either and it certainly isn't the fault of the other passengers who get less space between them because of your lardy presence. Another complication is what to do at the other end of the scale - it would be important not to encourage the "a stick of celery and half a tomato is more than enough for lunch" mob so there would need to be lower limit on the luggage gains (perhaps the weight distribution issue would be a legitimate reason for imposing this lower limit).
FYI: I'm a chunk overweight myself and not exactly getting any less so as time passes, and I would have no problem with getting a lower luggage allowance than someone of more healthy proportions. It seems quite fair to me: I want you to transport X kilograms of stuff from here to there which will use up Y amount of fuel, it just so happens that Z% of that mass is me and the heavy boots I prefer to wear. What's that? Xkg is over the total allowance and I'll have to pay a fee for the extra? Fair enough.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Well, don't forget the skinny, tall people like me (6'2", 135lbs). I can't get into a seat without my knees getting smashed by the seat ahead. And forget it if the person in front tries to put the seat back. I can only fit (semi-comfortably) in exit-row seats, or other rows where there's extra leg space.
It's one of the reasons why I now refuse to fly.
Re:Welp, that's it (Score:5, Informative)
The terms don't exactly look secret. From: http://www.southwest.com/travel_center/cos_qa.html [southwest.com]
The armrest is the definitive gauge for a Customer of size. It serves as the boundary between seats and measures 17 inches in width. Customers who are unable to lower both armrests and/or who compromise any portion of adjacent seating should proactively book the number of seats needed prior to travel.
In fact that looks pretty darn simple and straightforward (and fair) - if you fit in the seat (that's the bit between the armrests) then sit in it, otherwise buy more than one seat.
It'll still be a lot cheaper for fat people than tall people who have to pay for business class (ain't no special offers for upgrades if you're too tall to fit your knees behind the cattle class seat, I've tried). Furthermore, fat people can lose weight, tall people are stuck being tall.
Re:Welp, that's it (Score:4, Funny)
Let me introduce you to Mr. Procrustes.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
If he was really too fat to fly they never should have sold him a ticket.
And they'd better damn well have given him a full refund or a free transfer or it's fraud.
Either that, or they should never have sold me a ticket when I failed to mention I have a chronic aversion to sitting next to someone who overhangs their seat so far that I can't see my own lap.
And if they don't give me a full refund or transfer, then it's $RANDOM_LEGAL_TERM.
Just measure before boarding. (Score:3, Funny)
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
If he was really too fat to fly they never should have sold him a ticket.
And they'd better damn well have given him a full refund or a free transfer or it's fraud.
I understand where you are coming from as I have to fly frequently and am tired of everything that the airlines have taken away from their customers over the years. However I also find it annoying when I'm stuck sitting next to someone who clearly should be forced to purchased two seats for their fat ass. Why should I have to deal with their fat ass spilling over into my already cramped space? If they choose to be the size of two people I nor someone else that is stuck sitting next to them should have to su
Re:Welp, that's it (Score:5, Informative)
Do you even know who this guy is? He isn't THAT big.
Re:Welp, that's it (Score:5, Funny)
Do you even know who this guy is? He isn't THAT big.
Are you referring to his weight or his career?
Re:He's a "double seater"... (Score:5, Informative)
He normally buys double seats due to his width.
This time he was on standby and there was no double seat for him. To prevent the person next to him from suffering the overflow they made him take the next flight and gave him $100 for his trouble.
He knew the rules, this just makes a whining, self-entitled asshole.
Re:Welp, that's it (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Welp, that's it (Score:5, Insightful)
What's your point? It's OK to be morbidly obese as long as your wife is hot? Does it occur to you that health might be something worth considering hot wife or no?
For many men (both heterosexual and homosexual), particularly those who are single and under the age of 40, a key motivator to get fit is not 'health reasons.' Rather, it's the desire to be more sexually attractive to a mate. In Kevin Smith's case, this motivator isn't present. He's already got an attractive mate. Therefore, in his case a key incentive to lose weight, quit smoking and reduce drug use isn't present. Usually the next driver comes after a health scare (i.e. heart attack or diabetes), and that may not happen for another 10-15 years.
have you seen him lately? (Score:4, Interesting)
That pic is from 2007.
Have you seen him lately?
http://cache-03.gawkerassets.com/assets/images/1/2008/11/Rogen_Kevin_Fat_Guys.flv.jpg [gawkerassets.com]
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
BMI isn't just useless, it's worse than useless. Not only does more muscle mass than usual completely skew the results, but being taller than
Because they're spilling over into my seat (Score:4, Insightful)
The seat I, not they, paid for.
Yes, it's not right to sneer at people for being fat, whether it's their fault or not. It's perfectly all right to sneer at someone for stealing someone else's seat.
If you need two (or three...) seats buy them. Don't steal from your neighbours.